Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1366

Top 3 matches we need to see happen already:

1._Mario vs. Sonic
2._Street Fighter II vs. Mortal Kombat II
3._Super Metroid vs. SotN

I mean, we already know who'd win in every match, but it would still be epic.

I'm not entirely convinced SF2 beats MK2!

At the very least, Sub-Zero vs. Ryu is a debated match at this point.

Unless you think KOS-MOS beats Shulk, I guess.

Do we really know who'd win SF2 vs. MK2...?

I'd take SF2 on the basis of some sort of fighting game hierarchy, but it's not guaranteed.

MK only wins if it gets into Smash, which it won’t. They avoid M rated stuff.

I don't see how SFII doesn't completely blow MKII out of the water.

pjbasis posted...

I don't see how SFII doesn't completely blow MKII out of the water.

Do you think Sonic 1 beats Sonic 2? If not, then MKII was stronger than SFII last contest either was in (admittedly in fourways, but that was also when Street Fighter was hot off Street Fighter IV and Mortal Kombat was coming off Armageddon).

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3457-division-3-round-1-mk2-secretofmana-shiningforce2-sonic-2

is much more impressive than

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3450-division-2-round-1-castlevania-3-civilization-sonic-1-sfii

I feel like past results matter less than ever before.

And I would say that Sonic 1 and 2 are probably nearly equal.

I honestly think Street Fighter 2 might need the Turbo to show its true strength

Like if you're old enough to remember the SNES days, there's a difference

SF2 Turbo was awesome
SF2 was... I mean it was cool, but...

SF2T > MK2 > SF2 seems plausible to me

People always argued that SF2 would get proxy votes for all the games but I'm not sure I believe that.

Leonhart4 posted...

People always argued that SF2 would get proxy votes for all the games but I'm not sure I believe that.

It probably would, but the other games are so weak it doesn't really matter. Which is a shame, because 4 was very possibly the best fighting game ever made.

Street Fighter II getting Street Fighter V proxy votes this is sounding more and more like MKII > SFII is the real obvious result...!

I didn't mean for the whole series. I meant for all the SF2 versions, like it would get votes for Turbo and Super Turbo, which are probably the actual most popular iterations of SF2.

I would definitely take Sonic 1 over Sonic 2 indirectly. Speaking of proxy votes, first games in series probably get a lot of that.

It's hard to know how many proxy votes would come from the many superior versions of SFII.

You could argue having Super Turbo (probably the best possible version in a contest setting) would make it a guaranteed win, but it's an extremely specific version that would probably cause abstentionism. Having it just as "Street Fighter II" seems like the best bet to draw the votes for the people who played the rest of the versions.

I mean, I bet Street Fighter IV would certainly have an overall stronger performance in another contest than 11 years ago, simply because condensing it as "Street Fighter IV" would probably draw votes for the 7 or so upgraded versions released throughout the years.

LeonhartFour posted...

I didn't mean for the whole series. I meant for all the SF2 versions, like it would get votes for Turbo and Super Turbo, which are probably the actual most popular iterations of SF2.

I would certainly take Street Fighter II to be inclusive of all the upgraded versions of the base game. Hell, didn't the Add/Remove experiment subtract one of those redundant games for Mortal Kombat II because of that exact logic?

I mean, I was the one who pushed for MK2, but it was because I thought it'd be the strongest MK game and deserved to be in. It wasn't because I believed in this proxy thing. It was because MK2 fell into the same division time-frame as Super Turbo as opposed to the original (plus, I doubt as many people would've gone for removing the original SF2).

I wouldn’t even think of voting for SFII as a proxy for Turbo or whatever... it’s all just different versions of the same thing in my mind. I’d always be voting based on the best version of the game even if it’s legally in the bracket as the basic one.

WarThaNemesis2 posted...

Do you think Sonic 1 beats Sonic 2? If not, then MKII was stronger than SFII last contest either was in (admittedly in fourways, but that was also when Street Fighter was hot off Street Fighter IV and Mortal Kombat was coming off Armageddon).

Consider that Metroid was in a better state when that contest was ran than in any subsequent contest and yet the franchise fared better in GOTD and BGE3 anyway.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

I wouldn’t even think of voting for SFII as a proxy for Turbo or whatever... it’s all just different versions of the same thing in my mind. I’d always be voting based on the best version of the game even if it’s legally in the bracket as the basic one.

Same.

I would definitely make a distinction in the different SF2 versions, which is why SMRPG was a no-brainer for me back in the day!

There's no way people would make that much of a distinction. Like, people who only played Persona 5 Royal would've still voted for it in GotD, and people who only played the original Persona 4 would've still voted for Golden in GotD.

Do people still know the differences between the different versions of SF2? I probably knew them back in the day but I couldn't tell you exactly what they are today.

I think Turbo is faster.

Team Rocket Elite posted...

Do people still know the differences between the different versions of SF2? I probably knew them back in the day but I couldn't tell you exactly what they are today.

I can tell you a lot of them, but I put a lot of hours into pretty much every version of Street Fighter growing up.

The original SF2 kinda sucks though, so I wouldn't vote for that one.

I just can't imagine seeing "Street Fighter II" and thinking it doesn't mean the Turbo that I grew up playing, unless I specifically saw it as its own entry somewhere else.

It's kinda like how Link from the Legend of Zelda isn't just representing the one from the first game.

pjbasis posted...

I just can't imagine seeing "Street Fighter II" and thinking it doesn't mean the Turbo that I grew up playing, unless I specifically saw it as its own entry somewhere else.

I mean when I see the cover of SF2 I think of SF2 but again I played tons of SF growing up so they're different games to me

Fair enough but I would wager hardcore fans that have played every entry are in the minority. I don't think it would be very relevant against MKII so I don't see Lopen's scenario happening.

SFII Turbo might be weaker because it really instantiates itself. If you just played Super SFII, you might not vote for that where you would have voted for generic SFII.

I think for 99% of people, "Street Fighter 2" implies Turbo, and most people don't remember there being a difference.

Maybe, but Allen made it clear in 2009 that SF2 was just SF2 since Super Turbo was also originally part of the bracket.

Well, the Pokémon games for each Gen get all crammed up into one, despite there being a vast difference in reception between R/S vs. Emerald, D/P vs. Platinum, etc., with the latter being considered vast improvements. That's why HG/SS came to be so powerful on their own.

Having every iteration of SFII as separate entities would be pretty chaotic, since the first 3 or 4 original games weren't the only ones released — there's a 10th Anniversary Edition, a Remix (with changed modern aesthetics but same gameplay), Hyper Turbo (with Evil Ryu and Violent Ken)...

I mean, going by that, Tetris would face the exact same problem, or even worse.

Advokaiser posted...

Well, the Pokémon games for each Gen get all crammed up into one, despite there being a vast difference in reception between R/S vs. Emerald, D/P vs. Platinum, etc., with the latter being considered vast improvements. That's why HG/SS came to be so powerful on their own.

They're also listed as being all versions in contests. It's not just "Pokemon Red" or whatever.

But you won't have to worry about stuff like Championship Edition showing up in a contest any time soon, so people can continue to proxy vote if they wish.

Yeah, think about every game with "Remastered" or "HD" on it, which are never treated as separate entities regarding contests.

I find it hard to believe Xenoblade Chronicles: DE or Tales of Vesperia: DE would be treated separately, or that just going by the original names would not draw proxy votes. At least I don't think that's ever happened to Link's Awakening and LA DX.

Persona 4 Golden basically was treated differently, although voters probably didn't make the distinction, ironically enough.

LeonhartFour posted...

Persona 4 Golden basically was treated differently, although voters probably didn't make the distinction, ironically enough.

No, but that was an exception since P4G received a heck of a ton of noms in a scenario where the original was naturally excluded, but I bet the voters who only played the original already knew (or assumed) it was just P4 but better. That's why it was so good as a proxy magnet despite being treated as a separate entity.

I'm willing to bet P4 and P4G will just be treated as "Persona 4" if it shows up again in the future.

Advokaiser posted...

No, but that was an exception since P4G received a heck of a ton of noms in a scenario where the original was naturally excluded, but I bet the voters who only played the original already knew (or assumed) it was just P4 but better. That's why it was so good as a proxy magnet despite being treated as a separate entity.

I'm willing to bet P4 and P4G will just be treated as "Persona 4" if it shows up again in the future.

I mean, I think I proved this by getting Persona 5 Royal art into a Persona 5 match pic, so even Allen who gave the OK for P4G to be in the contest wasn't making much of a distinction for the Persona upgraded versions.

And if we have a Game of the 2020s Contest, this same situation could happen.

It goes by US/EU release too, otherwise GSC wouldn’t have made the first decade

interesting stuff

Now I want a contest where Red and Blue are separate just to have the debate.

What do you take, Pokemon Red vs. Pokemon Blue?

Red 60-40s

does it basically become a Charizard vs. Blastoise battle

Red wins that easily.

Threeway between Red/Blue/Yellow?

I'm good with it because it means two of them lose

Great news GameFAQs lovers, turns out we're actually still relevant!

 https://imgur.com/gallery/hWxiR1W (click to expand) 

Ngamer64 posted...

Great news GameFAQs lovers, turns out we're actually still relevant!

 https://imgur.com/gallery/hWxiR1W 

what kind of monster is this

Firefox won't load the image.

Chrome did, never mind.

Play Undertale.