Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1350

Celda and the Wind Waker years were not Link's strongest moments. Sure WW got stronger later, but it is not surprsing that FF took advantage of it during 2003-2005.

GranzonEx posted...

gamefaqs is really one of the weird LoZ strongholds

by all accounts Mario and Pokemon should beat LoZ everywhere else on the internet

I don't agree with this. Zelda is the most popular Nintendo franchise on pretty much any site that is frequented by 'hardcore' gamers, not just GameFAQs.

Link actually beat Mario on the main IGN website, but their poll was also hosted on twitter and Snapchat, where Mario presumably made up the difference.

Lightning Strikes posted...

That’s a numbered entry and a main console game. Both were financial and critical failures. Meanwhile, Zelda’s low point:

https://www.metacritic.com/game/ds/the-legend-of-zelda-spirit-tracks

Still a really good, well received game!

https://www.metacritic.com/game/ds/the-legend-of-zelda-phantom-hourglass

wtf why is Phantom Hourglass reviewed so well

GranzonEx posted...

gamefaqs is really one of the weird LoZ strongholds

by all accounts Mario and Pokemon should beat LoZ everywhere else on the internet

Popularity wise? Sure. But I dont think anyones arguing for any pokemon game as a critical masterpiece, and I say that as a huge pokemon fan.

If you run a GoTD on any major gaming site today, BoTW would win it 9 out of 10 times.

Because it’s a very good game!

Believe it or not hating on the DS Zeldas is not a popular opinion!

Lightning Strikes posted...

Because it’s a very good game?

Believe it or not hating on the DS Zeldas is not a popular opinion!

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ds/932377-the-legend-of-zelda-phantom-hourglass

Looking at the user score of this and the metacritic page, I'd say it's a fairly popular opinion. Although it would be more accurate to say no one cares about the handheld Zeldas.

KamikazePotato posted...

Ocarina, Majora, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princes are all Top 20 games in terms of contest strength, and they came out during 1998-2006. In comparison, the time period of 2007-2016 is a barren wasteland for Zelda. You didn't see another true game of note (A Link Between Worlds is strong but not THAT strong) until Breath of the Wild.

Only 1 console zelda game released in that span and while it wasnt received well by the fanbase it was both a critical and commercial success, even winning GOTY in several places.
If you're taking handheld into account then you cant ignore OoT3D and Majoras Mask 3d as both were ground up remakes running on new engines. Also link between world was arguably as well recieved as wind waker and twilight princess.

KamikazePotato posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ds/932377-the-legend-of-zelda-phantom-hourglass

Looking at the user score of this and the metacritic page, I'd say it's a fairly popular opinion. Although it would be more accurate to say no one cares about the handheld Zeldas.

Ulti's review is right!

KamikazePotato posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ds/932377-the-legend-of-zelda-phantom-hourglass

Looking at the user score of this and the metacritic page, I'd say it's a fairly popular opinion. Although it would be more accurate to say no one cares about the handheld Zeldas.

That’s still notably better than most of the last decade of FF! Like that’s still fine as a low point.

BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

I was a frequent poster on GameFAQs, LL and I browsed Reddit a lot around the time of that contest. I don't recall that game "taking the internet by storm", unless it was a weird 4chan circlejerk. Even then those usually filter down to other sites.

Doki Doki Literature Club was the second-strongest indie game of 2017, beaten only by Cuphead.

DDLC might be the 3rd most infuential indie game of the last decade (which kinda sucks, 'cause I absolutely hate horror).

GranzonEx posted...

gamefaqs is really one of the weird LoZ strongholds

by all accounts Mario and Pokemon should beat LoZ everywhere else on the internet

Maybe as a series, but I'm pretty confident Breath of the Wild would beat Odyssey and Sword/Shield pretty much everywhere

GameFaqs will always hold Zelda in high regard, but BotW is arguably the first game since OoT that has commanded universal respect from pretty much everyone. The rest always had something about them that kept from that sort of massive appeal. TP came the closest but still caught flak for being too much like OoT and waggle.

It's absolutely stunning how strong BotW is despite having a large amount of people saying it's not that good.

You could argue it's a vocal minority, but it's quite a big minority if you ask me.

It's a vocal minority. Zelda fans love it for finally ditching the myriad of tropes that Nintendo has been recycling since OoT (and for some of them, since ALttP!) and casuals love it for being open world.

The only people actually upset about it are weirdos who wanted another 3 cycle boss game with 3 intro dungeons before getting the master sword and wanted to play tennis with ganondorf again (and on and on down the trope list). Like they don't have 2 decades of that s*** to play if they want it.

Advokaiser posted...

It's absolutely stunning how strong BotW is despite having a large amount of people saying it's not that good.

You could argue it's a vocal minority, but it's quite a big minority if you ask me.

As someone who doesn't like BotW, it's hard to find people who agree with me. I don't think it's a big minority. >_>
I wish it was!

BotW is one of those babby's first open world games that people in the Nintendo bubble will always circlejerk

Witcher 3 is better in every conceivable way

nope

the world in witcher 3 is a generation behind mechanically. as is basically every other open world game except RDR2, and even that is still behind.

i do agree it is better than BoTW in most aspects though (story , characters, music, quests, etc)

That's definitely the only reason, and not because Zelda is finally getting something fresh after decades of stagnation and predictable tropes being recycled continuously.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/switch/189707-the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild

Breath of the Wild is one of the highest-rated (in user scores) games on the entire website. I did some quick searching and the only games I could find rated higher were Persona 4 Golden and Ocarina of Time. If there was a large vocal minority, then there's little chance that score would be as high as it is, as vocal minorities usually trash a game's average user rating.

Lightning Strikes posted...

That’s still notably better than most of the last decade of FF! Like that’s still fine as a low point.

The last decade of FF has been atrocious. If that's your barometer then the standards of this conversation are much lower than I expected.

Advokaiser posted...

It's absolutely stunning how strong BotW is despite having a large amount of people saying it's not that good.

You could argue it's a vocal minority, but it's quite a big minority if you ask me.

Just like the vocal minority that didn't like FFVII or OoT when they were winning contests, yes.

Yuri_LowelI posted...

You're right about the COd syndrome

3D Mario games have refreshed and become more beloved due to the innovations and originality be it in its mechanics or structure. Even 2D and 3D World were new.

But the NSMB games all played the same all had very similar bosses/enemies gameplay design and the only novelty was coop.

Also the reason i disliked NSMB2 so much because it was the first Mario Game i had played and stopped playing and did not finish. NSMB1 was a decent experience at the time and i finished it. I didn't finish a single NSMB game after that and the reason is boredom or losing interest in them. They offered nothing but recycled experience with a slightly shinier coat of paint. I.e..your yearly COD

Maybe you've just outgrown 2D Mario, I suppose?

Steve_Jobs_Son posted...

twilight princess and skyward sword are the worst 3d zelda games.

Personally, I've got Wind Waker as the worst 3D Zelda. I would still give it an A-. Still a pretty great game.

KamikazePotato posted...

Breath of the Wild is one of the highest-rated (in user scores) games on the entire website. I did some quick searching and the only games I could find rated higher were Persona 4 Golden and Ocarina of Time.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/games/
rankings?platform=0&genre=0&list_type=rate&view_type=0&dlc=1&min_votes=2

silly gamefaqs not recognizing a link to its own site and making me break it up

Rated higher: OoT, P4G, SotN, Metroid Prime Trilogy, MGS3: Subsistence, LoZ Collector's Edition (GCN), CT (DS), Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate

Tied with: CT (SNES), Mother 3, LttP, and Metal Gear Solid: Legacy Collection

KamikazePotato posted...

The last decade of FF has been atrocious. If that's your barometer then the standards of this conversation are much lower than I expected.

The conversation started as discussing why FF fell off while Zelda and Nintendo stayed strong, hence the comparison.

BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

I was a frequent poster on GameFAQs, LL and I browsed Reddit a lot around the time of that contest. I don't recall that game "taking the internet by storm", unless it was a weird 4chan circlejerk. Even then those usually filter down to other sites.

Must live under a rock then.

The only reason FF fell off is because they tried making it more western imo.

Does anyone know what the average raw votes per match is so far? I figure Luster or somebody has that figured out already

There isn't a rock big enough to live under that explains BT not knowing anything about anything. He might as well live in the core of the Earth, both because he is so hilariously oblivious to the mainstream and also because his takes are scorching hot.

davidponte posted...

There isn't a rock big enough to live under that explains BT not knowing anything about anything. He might as well live in the core of the Earth, both because he is so hilariously oblivious to the mainstream and also because his takes are scorching hot.

Where's the proof he ate his hat anyway?

Keltiq posted...

Does anyone know what the average raw votes per match is so far? I figure Luster or somebody has that figured out already

just off the top of my head, about 16,000

Sharinnegan posted...

nope

the world in witcher 3 is a generation behind mechanically. as is basically every other open world game except RDR2, and even that is still behind.

i do agree it is better than BoTW in most aspects though (story , characters, music, quests, etc)

Music is subjective, but the others ill give you.
The problem is Zelda's overall gameplay is so much better than witcher that it compensates for the wafer thin story and characters.
I absolutely adore witcher, but its combat was mediocre at best, its story, characters and open quest structure carry it.

Leonhart4 posted...

Just like the vocal minority that didn't like FFVII or OoT when they were winning contests, yes.

Yeah, but most people who complain about OoT, complain for things like "Navi is annoying" or "Water Temple is too complicated". (Dude! Those aren't even real complaints! The Water Temple is the best dungeon in the whole game, and Navi is NOT annoying, she's a nice reminder of where you have to go! You want real complaints? How about Hyrule Field and Lake Hylia being complete barren wastelands, for starters!

/rant

BotW's complaints seem to be more reasonable, like weapon durability, lack of proper dungeons, and overall empty world (although I've yet to confirm those since I've yet to play it).

shane15 posted...

The only reason FF fell off is because they tried making it more western imo.

Worked for FF7 tho

Zelda's lowest point is SS, which is closer to FFXII levels of reception than FFXIII trilogy/OG FFXIV/FFXV levels of derision.

Also, I've always had a theory that FF's unique cultural success in the late 90s comes from having embedding a romantic melodrama within the larger RPG framework, which was able to attract a wide audience with the "star crossed lovers" + sad Uematsu Jpop ballad formula. Whether this is now out of style or not, Square mostly abandoned it or just half ass it in some cases these days and they've been having a hard time getting people to care for their modern characters. At the very least, I think XII suffered a lot from this, especially in Japan where VII/X is king and XII is absolute bottom tier.

I haven't even played the new FF7 yet so can't comment.

I actually meant OG FF7! It was a significantly westernised game at the time.

SS may have been like XII, but FFXII appreciation grew over time, especially with the IZJS edition. SS might be more comparable to XIII now.

Lightning Strikes posted...

I actually meant OG FF7! It was a significantly westernised game at the time.

in what way?

I used to read a blog that said Japanese's most succesful franchises in the West are the ones that don't go too far into Japanese culture and instead take from Western one. For example, Zelda is an European medieval fantasy. Metroid is a space opera. Mario is an Italian plumber rescuing a princess in castles. Final Fantasy games largely do that, too.

Of course, a lot of Western fans are cool with Japanese culture, but something that goes too far into that tends to be more niche

tgs2 posted...

SS may have been like XII, but FFXII appreciation grew over time, especially with the IZJS edition. SS might be more comparable to XIII now.

XII may have grown, but I don't really see SS being XIII levels of hate. On GameFaqs, SS's average ratings are way higher.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/wii/960633-the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps3/928790-final-fantasy-xiii

Also XIII has to carry the baggage of XIII-2 and Lightning Returns, which don't really help matters that much either.

wait what did I do

XIII_rocks posted...

wait what did I do

Don't play dumb.

KamikazePotato posted...

Don't play dumb.

You're very cheery today!

You're right sorry

The baggage of XIII-2 and Lightning Returns has been dragging me down for the best part of a decade. It's obvious

XIII-2 is the best FF game of the decade.

I would even go as far as saying that not only is it a good FF, which is an incredibly low bar, but it's actually a good game in general.

ultimate would get 60/40 on brawl easily

XIII-2 is the best FF since IX. Real great game.

Why some results in the result screen on contest standing have like a box around them?

Safer_777 posted...

Why some results in the result screen on contest standing have like a box around them?

That's when there is a disagreement between registered winner, anon winner, and overall winner in some form

Okay thanks.

Safer_777 posted...

Why some results in the result screen on contest standing have like a box around them?

Light blue means disagreement between registered and anon. Dark blue means the winner would actually change if the two vote bonus didn't exist.