Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1334

Sens-Hangar_18 posted...

Nah it was at it's worst in 2014 when whatever AC came out that year was a buggy, unfinished mess. I remember seeing the memes everywhere.

I guess Ubisoft did a decent job turning things around. Mass Effect: Andromeda got similar treatment and the series didn't survive.

The difference there is that AC is an annualized franchise that had already started saying f*** it to it's overarching narrative, and it's a "better luck next time" kind of thing.

Andromeda was "oh...you spent half a decade working on absolutely worthless crap that does everything wrong, there's nothing worth salvaging here, but you can't just make another one that's not a sequel to this since you established it as a brand new fresh start, and even that would take another 2 or 3 years minimum."

"Yo dude, they killed Mass Effect" - B. Shoemaker

Disco Elysium isn't gonna be worth beans, much as I hate to say it

It's literally paradigm redefining and completely changes everything for all future narrative RPGs but this is gamefaqs. Nobody here cares about the fact we finally have a game that can unambiguously compete with the best from Paul Auster, or Gabriel García Marquez, or any other lit fic authors worthy of the name. It's a game that aggressively defies the conventions of games and has an actively antagonistic, fiercely challenging vibe versus what might be the ultimate 'comfort food' game in this bracket. When was the last time this site took a revolutionary shake-up well?

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Disco Elysium isn't gonna be worth beans, much as I hate to say it

It's literally paradigm redefining and completely changes everything for all future narrative RPGs but this is gamefaqs. Nobody here cares about the fact we finally have a game that can unambiguously compete with the best from Paul Auster, or Gabriel García Marquez, or any other lit fic authors worthy of the name. It's a game that aggressively defies the conventions of games and has an actively antagonistic, fiercely challenging vibe versus what might be the ultimate 'comfort food' game in this bracket. When was the last time this site took a revolutionary shake-up well?

A different kind of revolution, but well, Breath of the Wild.

I actually think GameFAQs would love Disco Elysium. It is an in-depth narrative-driven RPG that takes itself seriously and got s great reception. We saw it look great in that PC poll. What holds it back is the fact that it is just too recent, and is PC only. Do the match again in 5 years, Disco likely takes it. It is just too soon though.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

The difference there is that AC is an annualized franchise that had already started saying f*** it to it's overarching narrative, and it's a "better luck next time" kind of thing.

Andromeda was "oh...you spent half a decade working on absolutely worthless crap that does everything wrong, there's nothing worth salvaging here, but you can't just make another one that's not a sequel to this since you established it as a brand new fresh start, and even that would take another 2 or 3 years minimum."

"Yo dude, they killed Mass Effect" - B. Shoemaker

For those that haven’t seen it:

 https://youtu.be/nkzmF4A9l_Q (click to expand) 

They killed Mass Effect, it’s dead.

A different kind of revolution, but well, Breath of the Wild.

I actually think GameFAQs would love Disco Elysium. It is an in-depth narrative-driven RPG that takes itself seriously and got s great reception. We saw it look great in that PC poll. What holds it back is the fact that it is just too recent, and is PC only. Do the match again in 5 years, Disco likely takes it. It is just too soon though.

BotW isn't nearly as revolutionary as Disco Elysium. I'm saying this as someone who's balls deep into RPG design: DE is so f***ing important it's causing people to reevaluate how they do their games in an entire different medium (tabletop RPGs, if you're curious). There have been other open world adventure RPGs before Breath of the Wild, and there will be more after it that will take little influence from it. It innovates Zelda, but it only innovates Zelda. DE is like the Metroid Prime or Halo of its genre in how it sets an entirely new standard that can't be ignored. The closest thing to how deeply it gives weight to everything you do is Alpha Protocol, and Alpha Protocol had absolutely zero lasting legacy. There's just...like, I'm trying to think of a comparison to explain how out there that game is in what it does and I'm failing, partly because it's the wee hours of the morning, but also because there's no way to match its technical and conceptual achivements to games that are still playing around with conventions set up in previous decades. It's a complete alien, and that's what dooms it. Look at how Undertale did even before it got rallied in the previous games contest and that's about DE's ceiling, because that's probably the most similar game in terms of impact.

So woke up, checked the results. I didn't expected sugh huge wins from Witcher 3 and Galaxy 2. Damn.

It innovates Zelda, but it only innovates Zelda.

Yeah this is the part I strongly disagree with. BotW completely overhauled the way open world design works, and the level of interactivity. Only RDR2 looks at open worlds in a similar way, and even that has linear narrative missions with one way to solve them and a much lower level of interactivity and physics.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

Good Metroid games are pretty hard to find in this decade, though.

But maybe there is a connection between this and Samus's monster strength in 2018?

Both Metroid and Castlevania have basically abandoned Metroidvania, so that might be a reason for all the indie games picking up the slack.

Ok I read on DE and it sounded pretty interesting. They specifically took a lot of gameplay from tabletop RPGs, so I get the comparison with those.

But yeah how good a game is says nothing about its contest strength. But then again, KH3 is a turd in the making so maybe it could happen.

Sens-Hangar_18 posted...

Nah it was at it's worst in 2014 when whatever AC came out that year was a buggy, unfinished mess. I remember seeing the memes everywhere.

Yes, that was Unity... in the mid-2010s...

Glad we agree

KanzarisKelshen posted...

BotW isn't nearly as revolutionary as Disco Elysium. I'm saying this as someone who's balls deep into RPG design: DE is so f***ing important it's causing people to reevaluate how they do their games in an entire different medium (tabletop RPGs, if you're curious). There have been other open world adventure RPGs before Breath of the Wild, and there will be more after it that will take little influence from it. It innovates Zelda, but it only innovates Zelda. DE is like the Metroid Prime or Halo of its genre in how it sets an entirely new standard that can't be ignored. The closest thing to how deeply it gives weight to everything you do is Alpha Protocol, and Alpha Protocol had absolutely zero lasting legacy. There's just...like, I'm trying to think of a comparison to explain how out there that game is in what it does and I'm failing, partly because it's the wee hours of the morning, but also because there's no way to match its technical and conceptual achivements to games that are still playing around with conventions set up in previous decades. It's a complete alien, and that's what dooms it. Look at how Undertale did even before it got rallied in the previous games contest and that's about DE's ceiling, because that's probably the most similar game in terms of impact.

There is a literal zero percent chance Disco Elysium has more influence than Breath of the Wild on gaming moving forward.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Both Metroid and Castlevania have basically abandoned Metroidvania, so that might be a reason for all the indie games picking up the slack.

Samus Returns was the best 2D Metroid since Super. Should've made the bracket, but what hurt it was being released so late in the 3DS' lifespan.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Disco Elysium isn't gonna be worth beans, much as I hate to say it

It's literally paradigm redefining and completely changes everything for all future narrative RPGs but this is gamefaqs. Nobody here cares about the fact we finally have a game that can unambiguously compete with the best from Paul Auster, or Gabriel García Marquez, or any other lit fic authors worthy of the name. It's a game that aggressively defies the conventions of games and has an actively antagonistic, fiercely challenging vibe versus what might be the ultimate 'comfort food' game in this bracket. When was the last time this site took a revolutionary shake-up well?

Had zero interest in DE before this post. Did some research, and now I'm keeping my eyes peeled for the PS4 version when it comes out.

Dragon Age: Inquisition losing this soon caught my off guard, so now I'm at 29 points because of it. I've miss predicted The Walking Dead and Undertale winning as well so far.

Imagine how wild this division would be if Skyward Sword were the 13 seed.

It likely beats SMG2 based on the poll below, but what about Witcher 3? Skyrim doubled SS in a GotY poll (also below), and we have virtually no data on SS thanks to its absence in the 2015 contest. Hard to say if the Zelda name is strong enough to carry SS out of this division.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/4841-what-is-your-favorite-wii-exlcusive-game
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/4594-best-of-2011-game-of-the-year

Alternatively, what if A Link Between Worlds were in this division? Lot of wasted potential with ALBW facing Smash in Round 2.

This is exactly why I'm okay with no Skyward Sword. I don't need a middling Zelda getting in the way of everything.

plasmabeam posted...

Samus Returns was the best 2D Metroid since Super. Should've made the bracket, but what hurt it was being released so late in the 3DS' lifespan.

What about AM2R? I know it's not an "official" Metroid game but it was a pretty damn fine remake.

I would've loved to see AM2R in this contest because it's a great game, but it could arguably have the lowest playrate of the contest and I think I would have been bothered seeing it beat some games off of unofficial name-status.

If ROMhacks were allowed in, would the Lttp/Super Metroid combo randomizer be the strongest game in the contest?

I have a question about Fallout: New Vegas.

When that game came out, people lost their minds over how freaking glitchy it was (some of them were game-breaking, like sudden crashes), but apparently it's still supposed to be stronger than Fallout 4 despite the latter being the one who was pretty much as acclaimed and popular as Fallout 3 was? What's up with that?

I've only heard great things about New Vegas and bad things about 4.

Because bugs aside, New Vegas is a game people like the content of, and Fallout 4 was widely rejected for being a downgrade in storytelling.

I've never met anyone who was happy with Fallout 4.

Well, I can't look at this poll and take New Vegas seriously...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/4213-best-of-2010-best-multi-platform-game-final

I've understood New Vegas broke free from its initial reputation and is now preferred the most, but I don't have a lot to back that up. I'd still take FO3 over the rest.

Advokaiser posted...

I have a question about Fallout: New Vegas.

When that game came out, people lost their minds over how freaking glitchy it was (some of them were game-breaking, like sudden crashes), but apparently it's still supposed to be stronger than Fallout 4 despite the latter being the one who was pretty much as acclaimed and popular as Fallout 3 was? What's up with that?

All Bethesda open world games are glitchy, it's expected. That won't hurt NV any more than Skyrim.

Fans love NV because of the choices you have in your responses, and in how to complete the missions. 4 is way worse at being an rpg, even though the fps mechanics are improved.

I mean, every Bethesda game is an absolute glitch fest. It's whether or not those glitches are accompanied with a good game or not.

I think SS should be here and I generally agree with the choice to sacrifice those middling franchise entries for more varied acclaimed games even if they are weaker. SS is still one of the best reviewed games of the decade and is generally liked - it can be easy to forget but a weaker Zelda is still a damn good game.

The same applies to Super Mario 3D World, especially with the many rumblings of a remaster.

Also Fallout 4 likely had a better launch reception than (launch) New Vegas, but it wasn’t the same as Fallout 3’s. Fallout 3 was a revelation when it came out, Fallout 4 was “cool, more Fallout”. I suspect New Vegas and 4 are in a similar range but the fanbase has come to prefer New Vegas.

Advokaiser posted...

I have a question about Fallout: New Vegas.

When that game came out, people lost their minds over how freaking glitchy it was (some of them were game-breaking, like sudden crashes), but apparently it's still supposed to be stronger than Fallout 4 despite the latter being the one who was pretty much as acclaimed and popular as Fallout 3 was? What's up with that?

If you want to see how the Fallout community see its games:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/6xejoc/best_fallout_game_poll/

Among serious Fallout fans, NV pretty much is near universally considered the best one. Of course, it's a different question how GameFAQs users see the Fallout games.

As for why NV's reputation has changed so much, most of the early complaints had to do with being glitchy (which was solved by later patches and mods). And after Fallout 4 was released, 4 streamlined a lot of the RPG elements, which was fine for casual gamers, but pissed off a lot of hardcore RPG fans who didn't like the direction Bethesda was going and they started championing NV as what Fallout should be like.

Honestly, when I got NV in 2012, while it had it's fanbase, the consensus was probably that it was the weakest of the four main games (which isn't really that bad a thing). Lowest rated on most sites and people complained about the gameplay.

Now it's probably second only to Fallout 2, maybe higher.

GameFAQs's core voters are privy enough to changes in gaming preference over time, so I'm confident that New Vegas is stronger now than it was several years ago. Same philosophy I used to assume that GTAV is weaker now than half a decade ago.

Alright, time to adjust my Oracle picks accordingly!

New Vegas broke 40% on RE4 in 2015. I hope people here don't forget it was in that contest.

Disco Elysium is phenomenal. Will still get wrecked by KH3 though.

Seanchan posted...

What about AM2R? I know it's not an "official" Metroid game but it was a pretty damn fine remake.

Loved it. Zero Mission 2 was amazing, and the new boss fights were surprisingly great. That said, I'd still rank Samus Returns above it. The new aiming system made Metroid feel like it had evolved.

Leonhart4 posted...

This is exactly why I'm okay with no Skyward Sword. I don't need a middling Zelda getting in the way of everything.

I understand your Zelda-fatigue, but Super Metroid almost beat reigning-champ Majora's Mask back in 2015. It's not like every game in the franchise is invincible.

Lightning Strikes posted...

I think SS should be here and I generally agree with the choice to sacrifice those middling franchise entries for more varied acclaimed games even if they are weaker. SS is still one of the best reviewed games of the decade and is generally liked - it can be easy to forget but a weaker Zelda is still a damn good game.

Skyward Sword was not only terrific but easily the best Zelda of the decade IMO. People complain that it didn't evolve the franchise, and while I respect that argument, I enjoyed SS much more than cakewalk ALBW and dungeon-less BotW.

I love SS but admit that it was hampered with questionable design choices that would really turn a lot of people off. If it's ever remade, I really hope Nintendo takes a note from what made BotW so popular and implements it into Skyward Sword.

I wouldn’t want them to make it more like BitW, but I would like them to take a WW and TP HD approach and implement the feedback they got, specifically regarding the Pacing. They cut nearly an hour from TP’s opening, they can easily do that with Skyward Sword.

Oh, I know Skyward Sword wouldn't be invincible, but it would still be stronger than at least 80% of this field, if not more, so I don't need to see it. Ori beating Dragon Age is a lot more exciting than Zelda doing it.

I actually wouldn’t go that far. If Hollow Knight does beat FFXV, that shows that SS would be pretty damn vincible. SS got doubled by Skyrim, I doubt it would be at the top of the field. ALBW probably isn’t and SS would be weaker than that!

Leonhart4 posted...

Oh, I know Skyward Sword wouldn't be invincible, but it would still be stronger than at least 80% of this field, if not more, so I don't need to see it. Ori beating Dragon Age is a lot more exciting than Zelda doing it.

I mean Ori is one of the games that legit deserve to be here.

There are some turbofodder indies that don't though. I e. INSIDE.

Or worse, non-indie turbofodder. Remind me again why Destiny needs to be in this bracket?

You’ll take INSIDE from my cold dead hands.

Fodder is good. Let those games get represented. INSIDE and Obra Dinn are classics.

What I don’t think we need is Destiny 1 or two ACs.

I'm glad my talking about DE got people curious about it :D

I know I can come off as antagonistic or pigheaded at times, but if there's one game I wish could win game of the decade it's this one. I don't think I've ever felt so passionately about a game in one of our contests before, even though a lot of my favorites have made appearances. I'm not even mad that it's gonna lose to KH3, all I really want is for people to play it because it changes everything. I get the skepticism at it being more impactful than BOTW but I absolutely feel like more games will come out reshaped by DE's influence in the coming years than we'll see a surge of 'open world 3d adventure' clones. I'll stop clogging up this topic with this rambling, though -- when the time for its match comes, I'll put up a topic explaining why that game matters so much so anyone who's actually interested can read it without disrupting stats and discussion.

---

On a different note, I don't think FO4 is comparable to New Vegas. New Vegas was hailed as a return to form on the narrative front, FO4 was seen as...yeah, 'more Fallout', p much. There's a big abyss in terms of perception even if sales for FO4 were likely better. The way I'd put it is, probably more people like FO4, but more people love New Vegas.

Lightning Strikes posted...

I actually wouldn’t go that far. If Hollow Knight does beat FFXV, that shows that SS would be pretty damn vincible. SS got doubled by Skyrim, I doubt it would be at the top of the field. ALBW probably isn’t and SS would be weaker than that!

Skyward Sword would stomp FFXV.

Apparently by 2015 New Vegas's sales numbers were only slightly behind Fallout 3's despite the latter having a two-year head start.

I have a bit of attachment to New Vegas in the dumbest way.

Ok let's say all indies are great and we could even have more (which I don't agree with but w/e)

What we don't need:

Destiny
Hearthstone
AC Odissey
Call of Duty
Dota 2
Street Fighter V
Starcraft 2
Heavy Rain
Fate Grand Order

Destiny HAS to be weaker now unless Stardew Valley really breaks 40% on StarCraft I.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

Ok let's say all indies are great and we could even have more (which I don't agree with but w/e)

What we don't need:

Destiny
Hearthstone
AC Odissey
Call of Duty
Dota 2
Street Fighter V
Starcraft 2
Heavy Rain
Fate Grand Order

Dota2 I can see being there, even though I'm a diehard LoL player

It's a massively popular game with a very unique style

Same for Fate Grand Order, as it's done some things that elevated its medium in spite of all the stuff that holds it back

All the others, yeah, get em outta there. They're not game of the decade worthy.