Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1331

Bayonetta is easily the strongest loser today. It got a bad draw. So did ALBW when it gets to round 2!

I think ALBW should be in or around the top quarter of the field, it’s just that being a handheld game definitely holds it back sadly.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

Sailing is alright.

My main issue with WW is that the dungeons are kind of meh. The best one is the first dungeon, and then it goes downhill from there. Must dungeons are very sloggish puzzle sequences.

I don't remember the dungeons being that bad, but I definitely get why one would have a problem with them.

i don’t think being handheld holds games back much, other than making them much less likely to ever get re-released. Not genuinely being as good or well liked as console games is what really kills them. people often tend to rate stuff relative to its era and/or platform and the ceiling is lower for pre-switch handhelds so they get inflated scores. They will seldom live up to those scores when competing head to head with console games of their era because they weren’t being rated by the same scale.

This is probably a dumb question that I should have asked during bracket time, but are Shovel Knight and Hollow Knight part of the same series?

No

The Outer Worlds gets a buff... after it's relevant:
 https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1244972716689461248 (click to expand) 

Friendly reminder that LttP and MM went 50/50 in 2015, so if you think BotW can beat MM, it can beat LttP!

I also think LttP has been secretly overrated for a while. It didn't look as good in 2009 or 2015 as it did in 2004

Lightning Strikes posted...

Bayonetta is easily the strongest loser today. It got a bad draw. So did ALBW when it gets to round 2!

I think ALBW should be in or around the top quarter of the field, it’s just that being a handheld game definitely holds it back sadly.

The Switch is technically a handheld system so I kind of disagree on this!

FFDragon posted...

This is probably a dumb question that I should have asked during bracket time, but are Shovel Knight and Hollow Knight part of the same series?

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Awakening doing worse against Human Revolution than direct extrapolation from 2015 has it doing against the more highly-regarded original can't bode well. There's certainly a possibility Human Revolution is stronger, but it's probably not by much.

Furthermore, going into a debated match in Round 2, we have the higher seed scoring a blowout win over a Call of Duty game, while the lower seed gets a fairly ho-hum beatdown against a not especially high-profile WRPG. Sound familiar?

The Fire Emblem fandom has a similar level of fracturing to the Pokémon fandom. Awakening was a breakout hit that brought in a whole new fanbase, and the old-school fanbase hates it (and Fates, which copied most of the things that they hated about Awakening) for being "Fire Emblem for Dummies".

Personally I'm fine with Awakening, but thought that Fates wasn't that great.

"whoops"

Leonhart4 posted...

Friendly reminder that LttP and MM went 50/50 in 2015, so if you think BotW can beat MM, it can beat LttP!

I also think LttP has been secretly overrated for a while. It didn't look as good in 2009 or 2015 as it did in 2004

MM benefited early on in the match against ALttP from the rally spillover, so I think MM overperformed. I'd expect ALttP to get 54-55 in a rematch today. Outside of that, it looked fine in 2015? ALttP just never has any "wow" matches since it always feeds on fodder before running the Zelda gauntlet and losing to OoT. 2009 also had the 4-way LFF, although ALttP did get to the finals and it handily beat FFVI even with LA in the match.

Also:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/4257-what-is-your-all-time-favorite-console-legend-of-zelda-game
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/7610-whats-your-all-time-favorite-legend-of-zelda-console-game

Still holding up pretty well. Really, with SNES games running amok in 2015, there's little suggesting to me that ALttP lost a step.

TsunamiXXVIII posted...

The Fire Emblem fandom has a similar level of fracturing to the Pokémon fandom. Awakening was a breakout hit that brought in a whole new fanbase, and the old-school fanbase hates it (and Fates, which copied most of the things that they hated about Awakening) for being "Fire Emblem for Dummies".

Personally I'm fine with Awakening, but thought that Fates wasn't that great.

That's along the lines of what I was thinking. It's a similar case as Fallout 3, Star Trek '09, and The Force Awakens which all received rave reviews on release but have gotten more backlash over time, especially from fans of their predecessors.

FFDragon posted...

"whoops"

<3

FFVI looked pretty terrible in 2009. LA was already embarrassing it before LttP came along.

And I think the fact that LttP gets to overperform in favorable matches is part of why I think it's overrated.

lttp has a dedicated zelda fanbase.

when you have “favourite” zelda game polls lttp always comes out on top. Because most of the OoT fanbase is split up of the new games.

Leonhart4 posted...

FFVI looked pretty terrible in 2009. LA was already embarrassing it before LttP came along.

And I think the fact that LttP gets to overperform in favorable matches is part of why I think it's overrated.

I dunno, I think > 40% on OoT was pretty impressive for LttP in 2015.

OoT was pretty flimsy in 2015, too, relatively speaking! It couldn't even get 65% on FFIX!

Not to say LttP is weak. I just don't think it's a clear top 4 or 5 like most people would, I think.

Glad I ain't the only one in thinking WW's dungeons were weak. That and overall lack of challenge were its low points. I actually thinking sailing was among the best part of the game, if not the best, at least on the Wii U version. There is something very liberating about it.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

Sailing is alright.

My main issue with WW is that the dungeons are kind of meh. The best one is the first dungeon, and then it goes downhill from there. Must dungeons are very sloggish puzzle sequences.

I don't know how someone can legitimately sit there and call WW's dungeon's "meh" while simultaneously praising BotW's non-existent ones. And then you decry WW's "sloggish puzzle sequences", when ALL THERE IS TO DO IN BOTW ARE THE 100 SLOGGISH PUZZLE SEQUENCES.

Is ZeldaTPLink some sort of parody account that I'm not understanding the joke of?

And none of this is to praise WW, which I think is probably the third worst 3D Zelda (behind BotW and SS of course).

Like, I can literally not comprehend why BotW is as popular as it is. The only thing I can reason is that years of repetitive by-the-books open world action games in the Assassin's Creed formula have conditioned a subset of the gaming population that all games need to have those mechanics.

Even then, I don't understand how anyone can say with a straight face that weapon durability didn't completely ruin the game of any potential it had.

Pretty much the only thing I can say BotW did right were the crazy physics mechanics and the overall aesthetic of the game.

lordjers posted...

Glad I ain't the only one in thinking WW's dungeons were weak. That and overall lack of challenge were its low points. I actually thinking sailing was among the best part of the game, if not the best, at least on the Wii U version. There is something very liberating about it.

These things and the sailing taking too long is way I think Wind Waker is medicore

I still have to play BotW but from what I've heard it's the most similar game to Zelda 1 since... Zelda 1.

And Zelda 1 was the 4th highest selling game in the series so there's an audience for it.

BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

I don't know how someone can legitimately sit there and call WW's dungeon's "meh" while simultaneously praising BotW's non-existent ones. And then you decry WW's "sloggish puzzle sequences", when ALL THERE IS TO DO IN BOTW ARE THE 100 SLOGGISH PUZZLE SEQUENCES.

Is ZeldaTPLink some sort of parody account that I'm not understanding the joke of?

I mean I didn't even mention BotW before that post.

Calm your vagina.

Leonhart4 posted...

OoT was pretty flimsy in 2015, too, relatively speaking! It couldn't even get 65% on FFIX!

Not to say LttP is weak. I just don't think it's a clear top 4 or 5 like most people would, I think.

FF9 seems to have boosted a good bit through the years, as the fanbase in general is very favorable to it in recent years.

Also can you post your meltdowns about disliking video games elsewhere, this topic is only for meltdowns about your bracket being ruined or your favorite game losing a match.

lordjers posted...

Glad I ain't the only one in thinking WW's dungeons were weak. That and overall lack of challenge were its low points. I actually thinking sailing was among the best part of the game, if not the best, at least on the Wii U version. There is something very liberating about it.

Sailing is slow, but exploring the map when it opens for the first time is pretty damn fun.

The FF fanbase had a come to Jesus moment with FFIX just like how the Zelda fanbase had that moment with Majora

They went from being a black sheep to one of the major hipster picks in their respective series

I really don’t get the 2015 OoT scepticism but that’s another issue.

BotW is unique among open world games in that it actually makes the world a real, cohesive and explorable place down to the physics. The level of interaction and freedom you have with everything is completely unrivalled. Even the puzzle solving is completely freeform. It’s the ultimate “can I...?” game, and the answer is always yes. No action adventure game has ever given the level of player freedom BotW does, and only Red Dead Redemption 2 comes close in terms of interaction with the world.

It’s funny that you mentioned Assassin’s Creed since BotW and RDR2 are the antithesis of that style of open world design. These are not games where you tick off a checklist of a few different activities in whatever order. They are games where you are inhabiting a space and choosing how you interact with the world.

BotW being like Zelda 1 sounds really unappealing to me. It's by far the least I've liked from the series. The game's supposed to promote exploration, but you definitely must not go into that game on a blind playthrough or you'll get shredded to pieces.

People normally go "huh?" when I tell them that Zelda 1 was definitely harder for me than Zelda 2.

Hot take.

MM is a great game, but not a very good Zelda. It's my favorite game in the series but it doesn't feel like it's part of the series.

Advokaiser posted...

BotW being like Zelda 1 sounds really unappealing to me. It's by far the least I've liked from the series. The game's supposed to promote exploration, but you definitely must not go into that game on a blind playthrough or you'll get shredded to pieces.

People normally go "huh?" when I tell them that Zelda 1 was definitely harder for me than Zelda 2.

I hated Zelda 1 when I first played it.

But let me tell you, there's a fuzzy feeling you get when you start learning how to fight and survive in it and you begin to understand how to navigate the map that most games in this series lack.

That said, the BotW/Zelda 1 comparison is something I heard about but is not necessarily the consensus. I need to play BotW myself to be sure.

Not_Wylvane posted...

Also can you post your meltdowns about disliking video games elsewhere, this topic is only for meltdowns about your bracket being ruined or your favorite game losing a match.

Fair enough.

BotW isn’t really like Zelda 1. They just went back to the original design goal of Zelda 1 and built from there.

I will say, how open Zelda 1 is is grossly overstated. There is still a near set order. ALBW is more open for sure. I am also not crazy about Zelda 1, of the single player games I would only put it above AoL. But BotW is stunning.

MechanicalWall posted...

The FF fanbase had a come to Jesus moment with FFIX just like how the Zelda fanbase had that moment with Majora

They went from being a black sheep to one of the major hipster picks in their respective series

FF9 sucks.

Not_Wylvane posted...

Also can you post your meltdowns about disliking video games elsewhere, this topic is only for meltdowns about your bracket being ruined or your favorite game losing a match.

oh...

TWD losing sucks.

Lightning Strikes posted...

BotW isn’t really like Zelda 1. They just went back to the original design goal of Zelda 1 and built from there.

I will say, how open Zelda 1 is is grossly overstated. There is still a near set order. ALBW is more open for sure. I am also not crazy about Zelda 1, of the single player games I would only put it above AoL. But BotW is stunning.

There is no set order in Zelda 1 wtf.

You can skip right to the 8th dungeon with a candle.

Not_Wylvane posted...

FF9 seems to have boosted a good bit through the years, as the fanbase in general is very favorable to it in recent years.

Sure, but it did worse than CT did on FFX!

(get CT/FFX SFF outta here)

Can we talk about what a wasted opportunity it is for Spider-Man to be facing Minecraft next round instead of Batman?

Batman Vs. Spider-Man would've been dope. Similar games too.

UltimaterializerX posted...

There is no set order in Zelda 1 wtf.

You can skip right to the 8th dungeon with a candle.

But you still need to still do some dungeons before others no matter what.

Hbthebattle posted...

Ace Attorney is probably the most popular VN series in the west, but Danganronpa is probably second and they share a genre. I'd think you'd probably enjoy the series.

These results suggest otherwise!

This RE2 remake might not have been in any other contests yet, but the original RE2 was, and according to the 2015 X-Stats it's only expected to get 76.66% on 999 and 77.64% on its sequel, VLR. So either the remake is a hell of a lot stronger than its original, or Zero Escape beats Danganronpa handily. I figured that VLR would be the best one to compare to DR2 since they're both the middle entry, and it's like right at 57-43.

The results start at the first hour and every day seem little to no change, i thought by passing more hours we would see some significant shift in results, but they always stay the same from the get go. How is that possible?

ShortReplies posted...

The results start at the first hour and every day seem little to no change, i thought by passing more hours we would see some significant shift in results, but they always stay the same from the get go. How is that possible?

A few reasons:
1) The votes that happen in the first hour are a pretty good statistical sample for the rest of the votes. GameFAQs users who vote at midnight aren't that different from GameFAQs users who vote at noon.
2) Because votes are already in, the total percentage can't move as quickly later in the match.
3) Trends used to be stronger but the site seems to have homogenized somewhat.

DoctorJimmy133 posted...

A few reasons:
1) The votes that happen in the first hour are a pretty good statistical sample for the rest of the votes. GameFAQs users who vote at midnight aren't that different from GameFAQs users who vote at noon.
2) Because votes are already in, the total percentage can't move as quickly later in the match.
3) Trends used to be stronger but the site seems to have homogenized somewhat.

Thanks

I'm pumped for tonight's matches. I went with the oddball Shovel Knight > Octopath > Undertale prediction in that four-pack; it'll feel great if that pans out, but I think these will be fun matches regardless.

I feel good about Tropical Freeze > DMC5 too, but I may be biased from my TF love.

ShortReplies posted...

The results start at the first hour and every day seem little to no change, i thought by passing more hours we would see some significant shift in results, but they always stay the same from the get go. How is that possible?

It's been like that since 2k2. Even the few back and forths don't exceed too much in vote difference, and when they do it means the match is locked.

Just looked up INSIDE, not surprised the game is so weak. Stupid puzzle platformer, just not this site's kind of game.

Lightning Strikes posted...

But you still need to still do some dungeons before others no matter what.

Yeah. 4 is the big one; it has to be done after 3 but before 5, 6, or 7. There's a couple others too, including one that I really wish wasn't the case.

BotW is like Zelda 1 in that it's nearly completely open. BotW is more open in that you don't need to know what you're doing to reach most places in the game (assuming you know how to make weather resistant food, which you should when the map opens up for you). BotW is also infinitely easier difficulty-wise and much more user friendly in regards to navigating around the map.

Also this is probably bias speaking but I'd place BotW in top 2 for Zelda series strength. I can't thank that game enough for finally getting rid of the 1.5-2 decade old tropes and cycles that have held this series back for so long. Bring back interesting dungeons and add some more runes to the shiekah slate for classic items and Nintendo's set to ride out this formula for awhile.

TsunamiXXVIII posted...

including one that I really wish wasn't the case.

?

I think Breath of the Wild is unquestionably #2 in the Zelda line and second strongest game on this site, and it legitimately has a shot at beating Ocarina in a poll here.