Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1323 GameFAQs Contests

Luster,

Yes, but the site’s demographics have changed considerably since 1999 or even 2012. A long time ago, FF7 could still beat OOT in a BGE contest. Now Link beats Cloud 60-40. FF7 was beaten by Smash in 2015.

Also, consider what it took for Nintendo to lose 2012 - if I recall correctly they had no major releases for either Wii or 3DS because they were prepping for the Wii U’s launch. I’m not saying it’s impossible for Nintendo to ever lose another GOTY/SOTY/Best of E3 poll again, but it really does take a disaster/drought of epic proportions.

Poll update spreadsheet for the 3-way GotY poll:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17hoT3q7uhwz4siwbJN3oaLGPoiPpgpc7aX5XBvzZUX4/pub

Yuri_LowelI posted...

Either way let’s be real. As much hype smash got. It’s not goty material. It’s jyst a really good smash game. Neither brawl or melee or 4 won any goty or barely any. It’s a party fighter. That’s the bottom line.

To be honest Melee not winning much GotY looks really stupid in hindsight, it's without a doubt one of the biggest games from that era, and easily has the longest reach of any GameCube game. I say this as someone who isn't even that big a fan of the game relatively.

The major western media outlets just hate handing out GotY awards to anything Japanese not named Zelda. Been this way pretty much since the turn of the century.

NeoElfboy posted...

To be honest Melee not winning much GotY looks really stupid in hindsight, it's without a doubt one of the biggest games from that era, and easily has the longest reach of any GameCube game. I say this as someone who isn't even that big a fan of the game relatively.

Melee not winning GotY for 2001 on GameFAQs was mostly a product of its time. Final Fantasy was still very huge on GameFAQs in 2001 and FFVII was only about 4 years old (the game that most defines GameFAQs), so FFX put up a level of domination in our GotY poll that we'll never see again from a future Final Fantasy game. Not with the state of Square Enix right now. FFXV did win a GotY poll on this site just 2 years ago, but it was a very weak year with the only competition being a modern Pokemon game.

Melee got doubled by FFX in our GotY poll. Melee has closed that gap and is now slightly ahead of FFX in strength.

NeoElfboy posted...

Yuri_LowelI posted...

Either way let’s be real. As much hype smash got. It’s not goty material. It’s jyst a really good smash game. Neither brawl or melee or 4 won any goty or barely any. It’s a party fighter. That’s the bottom line.

To be honest Melee not winning much GotY looks really stupid in hindsight, it's without a doubt one of the biggest games from that era, and easily has the longest reach of any GameCube game. I say this as someone who isn't even that big a fan of the game relatively.

The major western media outlets just hate handing out GotY awards to anything Japanese not named Zelda. Been this way pretty much since the turn of the century.

Keep in mind that was the year of Halo and Grand Theft Auto III.

NeoElfboy posted...

Yuri_LowelI posted...

Either way let’s be real. As much hype smash got. It’s not goty material. It’s jyst a really good smash game. Neither brawl or melee or 4 won any goty or barely any. It’s a party fighter. That’s the bottom line.

To be honest Melee not winning much GotY looks really stupid in hindsight, it's without a doubt one of the biggest games from that era, and easily has the longest reach of any GameCube game. I say this as someone who isn't even that big a fan of the game relatively.

The major western media outlets just hate handing out GotY awards to anything Japanese not named Zelda. Been this way pretty much since the turn of the century.

Melee was just another good party game in 2001. It want until the mid to late GC era that melee became a gOtg type game.

I agree it was one of my most played games but I didn’t truly appreciate melee until 2-3 years after and I appreciated it more after I played brawl which was hot f***ing garbage.

Yeah, on top of 2001 being one of the best years in gaming Melee was one of those games that became more popular with age. Even in 2004 there were half a dozen games that were able to keep up with it in its division.

@Yuri_LowelI posted...

NeoElfboy posted...

Yuri_LowelI posted...

show hidden quote(s)

Either way let’s be real. As much hype smash got. It’s not goty material. It’s jyst a really good smash game. Neither brawl or melee or 4 won any goty or barely any. It’s a party fighter. That’s the bottom line.

To be honest Melee not winning much GotY looks really stupid in hindsight, it's without a doubt one of the biggest games from that era, and easily has the longest reach of any GameCube game. I say this as someone who isn't even that big a fan of the game relatively.

The major western media outlets just hate handing out GotY awards to anything Japanese not named Zelda. Been this way pretty much since the turn of the century.

Melee was just another good party game in 2001. It want until the mid to late GC era that melee became a gOtg type game.

I agree it was one of my most played games but I didn’t truly appreciate melee until 2-3 years after and I appreciated it more after I played brawl which was hot f***ing garbage.

Brawl did a lot of things better than Melee, like not having waved ashes and l-cancels! Wonderful game and deserved its sales.

Have at me.

_Dog_ posted...

@Yuri_LowelI posted...

NeoElfboy posted...

show hidden quote(s)

Yuri_LowelI posted...

Either way let’s be real. As much hype smash got. It’s not goty material. It’s jyst a really good smash game. Neither brawl or melee or 4 won any goty or barely any. It’s a party fighter. That’s the bottom line.

To be honest Melee not winning much GotY looks really stupid in hindsight, it's without a doubt one of the biggest games from that era, and easily has the longest reach of any GameCube game. I say this as someone who isn't even that big a fan of the game relatively.

The major western media outlets just hate handing out GotY awards to anything Japanese not named Zelda. Been this way pretty much since the turn of the century.

Melee was just another good party game in 2001. It want until the mid to late GC era that melee became a gOtg type game.

I agree it was one of my most played games but I didn’t truly appreciate melee until 2-3 years after and I appreciated it more after I played brawl which was hot f***ing garbage.

Brawl did a lot of things better than Melee, like not having waved ashes and l-cancels! Wonderful game and deserved its sales.

Have at me.

Well that’s your *slips* opinion. I hated not having those things being a pretty high level melee player myself. Even still I gave it a go and disliked it. Even smash 4 and ultimate are far better as they had more balance and you could play it more competitively.

Brawl had a decent single player but that’s about it. Only the original is worse and that’s only because that game is old and archaic. Part of me would still play the older game ahead of new game.

Brawl is just an irrelevant game now. No one cares about it or plays it competitively anywhere.

Why call out L-Cancels? That's a really simple thing to learn. You don't need to be a pro to tap a button right before hitting the ground.

swirIdude posted...

Why call out L-Cancels? That's a really simple thing to learn. You don't need to be a pro to tap a button right before hitting the ground.

You do need to be a pro to hit L before touching the ground for every single aerial move you ever throw out lest you get 3 more frames of lag and punished in those extra frames, or you barely miss a punish on somebody you just hit because you missed the input for l cancelling and couldn't reach them in time

L Canceling is one of the stupider Melee things imo

L canceling is just unnecessary overhead in inputs while playing the game at a high level for no real reason. It'd be different if there was a reason to like, not do it, but yeah.

Like if in Street Fighter II there was a mechanic to hit I dunno, HP + LK just after special move recovery to gain a bit of recovery frames, sure you could probably learn how to do it reliably, but I can't imagine people would think these are actually good mechanics.

L canceling is bad for the same reason that combat damage using the stack was bad in Magic.

Not a bad comparison. Similar burden of knowledge involved. Needlessly complicating a procedure that should be intuitive. I'd mark L-canceling as worse just because it's more obnoxious to manage once you get how to do it, unlike the combat damage stack which doesn't even matter a lot of the time unless you're specifically out to abuse it (which granted with all the sacrifice effects and whatnot that isn't exactly a rare event), but yeah.

L-Canceling rewards players who are willing to put in the time and work to learn to perform it, which gives these players a feeling of superiority, which makes them happy. It's not interesting from a game theory perspective but most things in video games are not interesting in that sense.

I think people wouldn't mind not having L-Canceling in Brawl if it defaulted to the regular lag being the same as L-Canceled lag. Instead, they made the regular lag longer than the non-L-Canceled lag in Melee, which just makes the game slower.

red sox 777 posted...

L-Canceling rewards players who are willing to put in the time and work to learn to perform it, which gives these players a feeling of superiority, which makes them happy.

Muddling your game with pointless crap just to make people who take the time to learn the crap feel better about themselves is poor design.

To be fair, Street Fighter (at least III from what I've played) has a parry mechanic, which can be somewhat comparable to something well-timed as L-Canceling. Heck, even Smash Ultimate has it.

Smash 64 has L-Canceling as well.

The big difference is parrying is a meaningful tactical choice not "do this upkeep maneuver as a cost for all your jumps or be at a disadvantage"

But what happens when someone knows how to parry your attacks and you don't? You're also at a disadvantage regardless.

That's when you step up your game and learn how to parry, or in this case, how to L-Cancel, and it's just about pressing a single button at the right time.

Weird, not sure why Allen did a Final Final Vote poll today. Still nice to have, though.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/7473-

LusterSoldier posted...

Weird, not sure why Allen did a Final Final Vote poll today

so we could settle it in smash

because f*** 3 ways

Allen realizing the follies of 3-ways after CBIX

Eh, it's not like there's anything better to run for PotD today.

I guess he could ask what January or 2019 games we're most looking forward to

and if KH3 dominates that poll I will be even more confused as to why Sora and Riku sucked so badly in CBX

Oh wow, a drop of nearly 7% on the second update of this poll.

That Smash board vote coupled with the GoW board vote is something else

LeonhartFour posted...

and if KH3 dominates that poll I will be even more confused as to why Sora and Riku sucked so badly in CBX

it's aqua's series now

xp1337 posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

and if KH3 dominates that poll I will be even more confused as to why Sora and Riku sucked so badly in CBX

it's aqua's series now

If you ignore the part where KOS-MOS shot her up worse than she did TheStupidRaptor, sure.

LeonhartFour posted...

I guess he could ask what January or 2019 games we're most looking forward to

The poll for January 14th is going to be "Which scheduled January release are you most looking forward to?", so I guess this likely means a System of the Year poll tomorrow.

Lopen posted...

red sox 777 posted...

L-Canceling rewards players who are willing to put in the time and work to learn to perform it, which gives these players a feeling of superiority, which makes them happy.

Muddling your game with pointless crap just to make people who take the time to learn the crap feel better about themselves is poor design.

Or you just suck. Saying something that is poor design because you’re too s*** to master it doesn’t make it pointless. You’re probably one of those gamers who plays every game on the easiest difficulty settings.

LeonhartFour posted...

I guess he could ask what January or 2019 games we're most looking forward to

and if KH3 dominates that poll I will be even more confused as to why Sora and Riku sucked so badly in CBX

It won’t dominate. RE2 will be a close second.

Also it’s ok to look forward to Kh3 and still think sora and Riku suck balls.

America is the region which is heavy on smash. God of war is even 50/50 in friggin Japan. That’s how beastly that game is.

Just came back from vacation, good to see Cloud $trife winning so many matchs this contest without having FFVIIR out yet.

Yuri_LowelI posted...

You’re probably one of those gamers who plays every game on the easiest difficulty settings.

do you think saying things like this is actually beneficial to your argument

Advokaiser posted...

But what happens when someone knows how to parry your attacks and you don't? You're also at a disadvantage regardless.

That's when you step up your game and learn how to parry, or in this case, how to L-Cancel, and it's just about pressing a single button at the right time.

There is a huge difference you are failing to grasp.

There is never a reason not to L cancel in Melee. Failing to do so is simply incorrect play. This means it is not in anyway a meaningful strategic decision by the player, so it adds zero strategic depth to the game. It is literally, as Lopen said, just extra input for the sake of extra input, for something as basic as jumping. To bring in a Brawl related analogy, it would be like if anytime your character ran further than 1/4 the length of the screen, you had to tap a button or they would automatically trip. Would anyone defend a mechanic like that?

Meanwhile, parrying is an active reaction to something your opponent is doing. You have to choose the correct input to respond to your opponent, and most importantly, choose whether or not parrying is the correct response at any given time. This adds strategic depth to the game.

Does anyone think BotW only gets 55% here?

Also, GoW only got 43.4% on Smash yesterday LFF confirmed.

redrocket posted...

Does anyone think BotW only gets 55% here?

Also, GoW only got 43.4% on Smash yesterday LFF confirmed.

No way

BOTW is crushing smash In a poll let alone GoW . Not up for debate. Look at last years poll. Had much stronger games.

Also I think we’re underrating GoW and overrating smash.

Coming from someone who’s played smash a lot and like it(100% adventure and gotten95 % of challenges) It’s not even on the same stratosphere as GoW and BOTW. Those are genuine GOTD calibur ganes. Ultimate is just a pretty solid party fighter with tons of cool characters. No one will remember this game in 10 years. Brawl is forgotten now. Ultimate will be the same. Only Melee will be fondly remembered and whatever the latest smash is at the time.

redrocket posted...

Advokaiser posted...

But what happens when someone knows how to parry your attacks and you don't? You're also at a disadvantage regardless.

That's when you step up your game and learn how to parry, or in this case, how to L-Cancel, and it's just about pressing a single button at the right time.

There is a huge difference you are failing to grasp.

There is never a reason not to L cancel in Melee. Failing to do so is simply incorrect play. This means it is not in anyway a meaningful strategic decision by the player, so it adds zero strategic depth to the game. It is literally, as Lopen said, just extra input for the sake of extra input, for something as basic as jumping. To bring in a Brawl related analogy, it would be like if anytime your character ran further than 1/4 the length of the screen, you had to tap a button or they would automatically trip. Would anyone defend a mechanic like that?

Meanwhile, parrying is an active reaction to something your opponent is doing. You have to choose the correct input to respond to your opponent, and most importantly, choose whether or not parrying is the correct response at any given time. This adds strategic depth to the game.

L cancelling makes gameplay faster. Thus requiring faster reflexes making quicker decisions and using a mechanic to become better at the game. No one said parrying wasn’t important. But with how many unavoidable attacjs and stuns there are in future smash partying is a more worthwhile mechanic than l cancelling in modern games.

Also l cancelling is required in other modes to get the best scores for things like home run and TT.

To say it’s pointless is like saying fast ULtimates in ninja garden are useless because you can bypass time by pressing buttons st the right time.

Melee is unique in that way. And that’s why it will outlast every smash game.

I've never played a smash game but from what has been described in this topic L-canceling sounds stupid. It sounds like additional button input for the sake of it.

Situational canceling is fine in games, some even have it eat special gauges to do so. Mandatory canceling every time you do something as basic as jumping is silly. If people say it makes it flow quicker/better then how about just have the default jump be at l-cancel speed without having to actually cancel.

These GOTY polls wouldn’t necessarily reflect what a contest picture would look like

If these two faced off in a contest I think Ultimate does a lot better

L-Cancelling is an unnecessary mechanic that doesn't compare to parrying. Next.

People didn't expect a GoW/Smash final poll? We have had multiple of those in the past!

We've also had years without them though.

I'd expect Smash to win by quite a bit more in a contest setting.

Advokaiser posted...

People didn't expect a GoW/Smash final poll? We have had multiple of those in the past!

This is only the third one ever.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3365-best-of-2008-game-of-the-year-final-final-vote
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6576-best-of-2016-game-of-the-year-final-final-vote
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/7473-best-of-2018-game-of-the-year-final-final-vote

And sometimes we don't get it when we really should:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/5383-best-of-2013-game-of-the-year-final

Standings have prize placements now. Hurrah for 3rd place

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/features/cbx_stats

Just gotta wait to be contacted I guess

Congrats!

Team Rocket Elite posted...

Advokaiser posted...

People didn't expect a GoW/Smash final poll? We have had multiple of those in the past!

This is only the third one ever.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3365-best-of-2008-game-of-the-year-final-final-vote
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6576-best-of-2016-game-of-the-year-final-final-vote
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/7473-best-of-2018-game-of-the-year-final-final-vote

And sometimes we don't get it when we really should:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/5383-best-of-2013-game-of-the-year-final

Huh... For some reason those were the ones that came to mind, but somehow I just assumed there were more.

Either way, I also thought there was a good chance for this Final, Final vote.

Play Brawl!