Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1315 GameFAQs Contests

It's possible, but we won't know for sure unless Snake defeats Samus and we get to see him perform against Mario (Zelda may screw up the comparison).

FinaIFantasy posted...

Also, in 1996 there is literally no way MM>X.

NONE!

Why on earth not? What has Mega Man gotten since 1996 that would allow him to surpass MMX if he wasn't aleady ahead by then? Mega Man's NES games were always bigger than Mega Man X. MM was a top three franchise on the NES behind Mario and Zelda, in the SNES he was buried behind Donkey Kong, Street Fighter, Star Fox, and Final Fantasy as well. Possibly Mortal Kombat. Certainly Mario Kart if that counts as a separate series.

Yuri_LowelI posted...

TheOneAboveAll posted...

Here's a wild thought:

If our first Character Battle was in 1996, Mario, Sonic, and Mega Man are by far the strongest characters in the field.

Again....Lttp did exist and so did LA and is stronger than any MM/Sonic game. Link would still beat MM and Sonic. But they’d be close matches. Mario would be clear fav though.

OoT just put Link on a God like status because that game was links first 3D game. His 2d games aren’t niche. Even by that point I’m pretty sure Zelda series outsold the sonic series. It definitely outsold the MM series.

Nah, Sonic 1 was a beast of a game sales-wise (15 million!), and Sonic 2 outsold any Zelda at the time except the original LoZ. Anyone who thinks Sonic isn't a top-tier force in 1996 is kidding themselves. If Link beats him it's only because his games are more GameFAQs' style (that is, they require a FAQ more). Agreed about Link vs Mega Man.

Mario by the hour:

20:00 | 52.43%
21:00 | 52.18%
22:00 | 49.68%
23:00 | 52.77%

If it is 1996 that is before the games with the whole pacifist MMX thing, right? Apparently that's a big thing people dislike about MMX.

NeoElfboy posted...

FinaIFantasy posted...

Also, in 1996 there is literally no way MM>X.

NONE!

Why on earth not? What has Mega Man gotten since 1996 that would allow him to surpass MMX if he wasn't aleady ahead by then? Mega Man's NES games were always bigger than Mega Man X. MM was a top three franchise on the NES behind Mario and Zelda, in the SNES he was buried behind Donkey Kong, Street Fighter, Star Fox, and Final Fantasy as well. Possibly Mortal Kombat. Certainly Mario Kart if that counts as a separate series.

Yuri_LowelI posted...

TheOneAboveAll posted...

show hidden quote(s)

Here's a wild thought:

If our first Character Battle was in 1996, Mario, Sonic, and Mega Man are by far the strongest characters in the field.

Again....Lttp did exist and so did LA and is stronger than any MM/Sonic game. Link would still beat MM and Sonic. But they’d be close matches. Mario would be clear fav though.

OoT just put Link on a God like status because that game was links first 3D game. His 2d games aren’t niche. Even by that point I’m pretty sure Zelda series outsold the sonic series. It definitely outsold the MM series.

Nah, Sonic 1 was a beast of a game sales-wise (15 million!), and Sonic 2 outside any Zelda at the time except the original LoZ. Anyone who thinks Sonic isn't a top-tier force in 1996 is kidding themselves. If Link beats him it's only because his games are more GameFAQs' style (that is, they require a FAQ more). Agreed about Link vs Mega Man.

Nostalgia....

It’s easy enough to look back after MM started really dying and saying, man, those incredible days of MM2,3, etc.

But no way in f*** in the MIDST of the prime of MMX that MMX loses to MM.

charmander6000 posted...

It's possible, but we won't know for sure unless Snake defeats Samus and we get to see him perform against Mario (Zelda may screw up the comparison).

Snake ain’t beating Samus Dawg. Peak Snake couldn’t even beat Samus.

He’ll Mario can’t even f***ing increase his lead right now. Samus has been stalling him for nearly 2 hours.

In my losers Bracket I have Samus >Cloud in the final but I picked god damn Mario in the rematch. Looking at today’s contest

I’m honestly thinking Samus beats Mario in the rematch. Anyone agree? Or at least worried about the Samus/Mario rematch.

That’s assuming Mario gets to final and loses to Link and Samus cleans up the losers.

Team Rocket Elite posted...

If it is 1996 that is before the games with the whole pacifist MMX thing, right? Apparently that's a big thing people dislike about MMX.

That is correct.

4 would hurt him, 5 would kill him.

You really didn’t have much of that stuff at all in 1-3. Really vague hints maybe. But not outright said.

During 1996 the Super Nintendo hype was huge. That system sold like pancakes, and Mega Man X was one of its signature games.

Rexxar500 posted...

During 1996 the Super Nintendo hype was huge. That system sold like pancakes, and Mega Man X was one of its signature games.

Yet No one heard of him in UK. Megadrive outsold the SNES in Europe.

Rexxar500 posted...

During 1996 the Super Nintendo hype was huge. That system sold like pancakes, and Mega Man X was one of its signature games.

It was also one of the first major early games on the console.

And widely regarded as one of the best. There is no way MM wins. None.

Yuri_LowelI posted...

Rexxar500 posted...

During 1996 the Super Nintendo hype was huge. That system sold like pancakes, and Mega Man X was one of its signature games.

Yet No one heard of him in UK. Megadrive outsold the SNES in Europe.

Good thing this is an American website then, huh?

Oh, I forgot about Europe.

FinaIFantasy posted...

Yuri_LowelI posted...

Rexxar500 posted...

show hidden quote(s)

During 1996 the Super Nintendo hype was huge. That system sold like pancakes, and Mega Man X was one of its signature games.

Yet No one heard of him in UK. Megadrive outsold the SNES in Europe.

Good thing this is an American website then, huh?

With some European influence. Hence why MM got beat by Pikachu and probably will again.

Yuri_LowelI posted...

FinaIFantasy posted...

Yuri_LowelI posted...

show hidden quote(s)

Rexxar500 posted...

During 1996 the Super Nintendo hype was huge. That system sold like pancakes, and Mega Man X was one of its signature games.

Yet No one heard of him in UK. Megadrive outsold the SNES in Europe.

Good thing this is an American website then, huh?

With some European influence. Hence why MM got beat by Pikachu and probably will again.

Okay. So that’s sorta irrelevant anyway then.

But pretend it wasnt.

Since we are talking strictly MM and MMX which both aren’t strong in Europe, the thought is that this continent that barely changes results anyway is going to rush to the 8 bit character they don’t care about over the 16 bit character they don’t care about why?

FinaIFantasy posted...

Yuri_LowelI posted...

FinaIFantasy posted...

show hidden quote(s)

Yuri_LowelI posted...

Rexxar500 posted...

During 1996 the Super Nintendo hype was huge. That system sold like pancakes, and Mega Man X was one of its signature games.

Yet No one heard of him in UK. Megadrive outsold the SNES in Europe.

Good thing this is an American website then, huh?

With some European influence. Hence why MM got beat by Pikachu and probably will again.

Okay. So that’s sorta irrelevant anyway then.

But pretend it wasnt.

Since we are talking strictly MM and MMX which both aren’t strong in Europe, the thought is that this continent that barely changes results anyway is going to rush to the 8 bit character they don’t care about over the 16 bit character they don’t care about why?

Tbh that whole Gfaqs in 96 is a silly argument anyway. With how many people were on the net you’d have 300 votals per match or something silly like that.

NeoElfboy posted...

FinaIFantasy posted...

Also, in 1996 there is literally no way MM>X.

NONE!

Why on earth not? What has Mega Man gotten since 1996 that would allow him to surpass MMX if he wasn't aleady ahead by then? Mega Man's NES games were always bigger than Mega Man X. MM was a top three franchise on the NES behind Mario and Zelda, in the SNES he was buried behind Donkey Kong, Street Fighter, Star Fox, and Final Fantasy as well. Possibly Mortal Kombat. Certainly Mario Kart if that counts as a separate series.

Yuri_LowelI posted...

TheOneAboveAll posted...

show hidden quote(s)

Here's a wild thought:

If our first Character Battle was in 1996, Mario, Sonic, and Mega Man are by far the strongest characters in the field.

Again....Lttp did exist and so did LA and is stronger than any MM/Sonic game. Link would still beat MM and Sonic. But they’d be close matches. Mario would be clear fav though.

OoT just put Link on a God like status because that game was links first 3D game. His 2d games aren’t niche. Even by that point I’m pretty sure Zelda series outsold the sonic series. It definitely outsold the MM series.

Nah, Sonic 1 was a beast of a game sales-wise (15 million!), and Sonic 2 outsold any Zelda at the time except the original LoZ. Anyone who thinks Sonic isn't a top-tier force in 1996 is kidding themselves. If Link beats him it's only because his games are more GameFAQs' style (that is, they require a FAQ more). Agreed about Link vs Mega Man.

Why is MM more popular now when he’s less relevant during the SNES era? As proven by game contests and Console polls NES is like 4th on the list behind SNES n64 and gamecube

attempt at 1996 tier list

S: Mario
A: Sonic, Donkey Kong, Samus, Mega Man
B Kefka, Link, Luigi, Yoshi, Bowser, Mega Man X, Zero
C: Diddie Kong, Simon Belmont, Doomguy, Pac-Man, Ryu, Scorpion, Cecil, Kirby, Knuckles

Wanna know something funny? Earlier this week I was thinking about making up a bracket for a 1996 character battle. Thanks for pushing me to go through with it. This is what I ended up with, like a 15-20 minute first draft type of deal.

NORTH DIVISION
(1) Mario
(16) Mr. Do

(8) Cecil Harvey
(9) Miles "Tails" Prower

(5) Rayman
(12) Wario

(4) Yoshi
(13) Sam (Sam & Max)

(6) Sub-Zero
(11) Dig Dug

(3) Duke Nukem
(14) Alex (River City Ransom)

(7) Max (Sam & Max)
(10) Kyo Kusanagi

(2) Crono
(15) Dr. Wily

EAST DIVISION
(1) Link
(16) Gabriel Knight

(8) Geno
(9) Chris Redfield

(5) Knuckles the Echidna
(12) Agahnim

(4) Simon Belmont
(13) Ganon

(6) Bowser
(11) Earthworm Jim

(3) Jill Valentine
(14) Marco Rossi

(7) Doomguy
(10) Princess Peach

(2) Terra Branford
(15) Prince of Persia

SOUTH DIVISION
(1) Sonic the Hedgehog
(16) Prince of Hyrule

(8) Ken Masters
(9) Ness

(5) Zelda
(12) Toad

(4) Magus
(13) NiGHTS

(6) Kirby
(11) Scorpion

(3) Ryu
(14) Kyle Katarn

(7) Mega Man X
(10) Bomberman

(2) Donkey Kong
(15) Albert Wesker

WEST DIVISION
(1) Pac-Man
(16) Blasternaut (Math Blaster)

(8) Kefka
(9) Zero

(5) Solid Snake
(12) Warrior of Light

(4) Luigi
(13) Terry Bogard

(6) B.J. Blazkowicz
(11) Guybrush Threepwood

(3) Samus Aran
(14) Jin Kazama

(7) Frog
(10) Fox McCloud

(2) Mega Man
(15) Marle

FinaIFantasy posted...

Rexxar500 posted...

During 1996 the Super Nintendo hype was huge. That system sold like pancakes, and Mega Man X was one of its signature games.

It was also one of the first major early games on the console.

And widely regarded as one of the best. There is no way MM wins. None.

Um...

-Mega Man X's North American release was in 1994. That's not an early SNES game.

-It's not really one of the "signature" games on the SNES. It barely broke 1 million copies sold. It didn't get into the original GameFAQs game contest. It's an afterthought for big Capcom SNES games compared to the massive hit that was Street Fighter 2. It's notable (and a game that I like, to be clear!), sure, but not as much as various other SNES games. The NES games were bigger for the time, and there were more of them.

But sure feel free to kid yourselves that MMX was some super-powerhouse who somehow got "ruined" by Mega Man X4 and X5. That's definitely a more plausible explanation.

Yuri_LowelI posted...

Why is MM more popular now when he’s less relevant during the SNES era? As proven by game contests and Console polls NES is like 4th on the list behind SNES n64 and gamecube

The site clearly has a lot of respect for characters whose pedigree dates back to the NES, even though it doesn't rate the system that highly. Note that out of the Nintendo characters (and I'm willing to throw Mega Man in with this), all had prominent games there, while any Nintendo characters who had to wait to the SNES to get started, like Kirby (yes yes, I know about Adventure's 1993 release), Donkey Kong, Fox, and yes, Mega Man X, are a step behind.

Calintares posted...

attempt at 1996 tier list

S: Mario
A: Sonic, Donkey Kong, Samus, Mega Man
B Kefka, Link, Luigi, Yoshi, Bowser, Mega Man X, Zero
C: Diddie Kong, Simon Belmont, Doomguy, Pac-Man, Ryu, Scorpion, Cecil, Kirby, Knuckles

Move Link up to A tier for sure. He's got no reason to be weaker than Mega Man. IMO #2 is between him and Sonic.

Crono should be on there, probably in B. Miiight even be A. I'd take him over Kefka for sure. Not really sure how much of a slow burn CT was to handicap him vs the second-tier Mario characters.

Kirby, Ryu, and Scorpion(/Sub-Zero) feel better than the rest of C, for the same reason as today. I'd probably put Fox in with them, maybe a half-step behind, but still better than most of C.

Calintares posted...

attempt at 1996 tier list

S: Mario
A: Sonic, Donkey Kong, Samus, Mega Man
B Kefka, Link, Luigi, Yoshi, Bowser, Mega Man X, Zero
C: Diddie Kong, Simon Belmont, Doomguy, Pac-Man, Ryu, Scorpion, Cecil, Kirby, Knuckles

Why do you have Samus ahead of Link? LoZ was far bigger than Metroid. ALttP was bigger than SM?

Kefka maybe? Cecil would be complete utter trash.

Sub Zero definitely higher than Scorpion. (Ken might be ahead of Scorpion in 96) Kirby would be on Luigi level.

Crono is B tier at worst.

And most important of all. I will go to my grave, I would bet my actual eternal soul.... switch MM and X.

He is not under any circumstance losing in 96

That 1996 bracket is fuego, darkx, though might I suggest adding ToeJam and/or Earl on there? Crash Bandicoot and Bub would also be essential.

Although now that I think about it Kirby might well have been weaker in 1996 relatively since his games would have been seen as "kiddie" then, maybe. A lot depends on the exact demographics of the voters at the time.

Calintares posted...

attempt at 1996 tier list

S: Mario
A: Sonic, Donkey Kong, Samus, Mega Man
B Kefka, Link, Luigi, Yoshi, Bowser, Mega Man X, Zero
C: Diddie Kong, Simon Belmont, Doomguy, Pac-Man, Ryu, Scorpion, Cecil, Kirby, Knuckles

I strongly believe Duke Nukem would be C tier as well. Hell, possibly B.

TheCodeisBosco posted...

Calintares posted...

attempt at 1996 tier list

S: Mario
A: Sonic, Donkey Kong, Samus, Mega Man
B Kefka, Link, Luigi, Yoshi, Bowser, Mega Man X, Zero
C: Diddie Kong, Simon Belmont, Doomguy, Pac-Man, Ryu, Scorpion, Cecil, Kirby, Knuckles

I strongly believe Duke Nukem would be C tier as well. Hell, possibly B.

Yeah. This is what I said earlier about Duke. No way he’s not one of the strongest.

And in 1996 Crash should be here.

Legitimately, were there any other games remotely worth anything on PSX in 95? I can’t remember any at all from back then.

The first Crash Bandicoot game didn't come out until September 1996, so no, Crash would almost certainly not be in a 1996 bracket.

Also, my take on the tiers for such a bracket:

S: Mario (wins in a Summer or Fall contest), Sonic (wins in a Spring contest)
A: Link, Mega Man X, Donkey Kong, Samus
B: Crono, Zero, Ryu, Mega Man, Yoshi, Bowser, Knuckles, Scorpion, Sub-Zero
C: Duke Nukem, Jill Valentine, Zelda, Magus, Luigi, Tails, Diddy Kong, Ken Masters, Chun-Li, Kefka, M. Bison, Frog, Ridley, Pac-Man, Wario, Heihachi and/or Kazuya Mishima, Kirby, Mai Shiranui

Yuri_LowelI posted...

TheOneAboveAll posted...

Here's a wild thought:

If our first Character Battle was in 1996, Mario, Sonic, and Mega Man are by far the strongest characters in the field.

Again....Lttp did exist and so did LA and is stronger than any MM/Sonic game. Link would still beat MM and Sonic. But they’d be close matches. Mario would be clear fav though.

OoT just put Link on a God like status because that game was links first 3D game. His 2d games aren’t niche. Even by that point I’m pretty sure Zelda series outsold the sonic series. It definitely outsold the MM series.

I sincerely doubt Link could take Sonic in 1996.

"It doesn't matter now what happens I will never give up the fight"
LOL Sonic, Sonic Mania boost my ass
It least try and make it look respectable, you sad excuse for a N9er

MetalmindStats posted...

The first Crash Bandicoot game didn't come out until September 1996, so no, Crash would almost certainly not be in a 1996 bracket.

Also, my take on the tiers for such a bracket:

S: Mario (wins in a Summer or Fall contest), Sonic (wins in a Spring contest)
A: Link, Mega Man X, Donkey Kong, Samus
B: Crono, Zero, Ryu, Mega Man, Yoshi, Bowser, Knuckles, Scorpion, Sub-Zero
C: Duke Nukem, Jill Valentine, Zelda, Magus, Luigi, Tails, Diddy Kong, Ken Masters, Chun-Li, Kefka, M. Bison, Frog, Ridley, Wario, Pac-Man, Heihachi and/or Kazuya Mishima, Kirby

Damn...
I thought Crash was around launch...

What the holy hell was on this console at first?

Pretty sure Link still wins in the mid 90s. Link to the Past dominated the Nintendo Power "top 20" polls for years.

Even in 1988 Link wins! https://superretromania.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/20150614_233506.jpg

LordOfDabu posted...

Pretty sure Link still wins in the mid 90s. Link to the Past dominated the Nintendo Power "top 20" polls for years.

Even in 1988 Link wins! https://superretromania.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/20150614_233506.jpg

Little Mac in the Noble Nine let's do this

LordOfDabu posted...

Pretty sure Link still wins in the mid 90s. Link to the Past dominated the Nintendo Power "top 20" polls for years.

Even in 1988 Link wins! https://superretromania.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/20150614_233506.jpg

No way Link beats Sonic from 94-97.

Closer to ALttP coming out maybe.

Mario
Link
Crono
Sonic
Megaman
Samus

The more I think about, the more I think Link might still win anyway, even without OOT. His character design is too darn awesome.

I also agree Mega Man X > Mega Man

FinaIFantasy posted...

Damn...I thought Crash was around launch...What the holy hell was on this console at first?

Tekken, Rayman, Twisted Metal, Namco Museum Vol. 1, Air Combat (first game of the Ace Combat series), and Battle Arena Toshinden (one of the first 3D and weapons-based fighting games) appear to have been the best-selling / otherwise most notable North American PlayStation releases of 1995.

I feel like DK would be 3 behind Mario and Sonic

DK is an icon and it's never made sense that he's only a mid carder. Maybe in 96 when he was still starring in popular games though he'd fare better

MetalmindStats posted...

FinaIFantasy posted...

Damn...I thought Crash was around launch...What the holy hell was on this console at first?

Tekken, Rayman, Twisted Metal, Namco Museum Vol. 1, Air Combat (first game of the Ace Combat series), and Battle Arena Toshinden (one of the first 3D and weapons-based fighting games) appear to have been the best-selling / otherwise most notable North American PlayStation releases of 1995.

Anyone from Tekken strong enough in 1996 to matter?

What about Sweet Tooth or Rayman?

Jeez, that has to be one of the weakest launch years in history.

Speaking of a 1996 contest (which would have very low vote totals), I would assume Alex Kidd would make the contest.

I’ve always been surprised he didn’t make the contests given he was quite popular for a time and the mascot of Sega. I guess he is a bit too old

LordOfDabu posted...

Pretty sure Link still wins in the mid 90s. Link to the Past dominated the Nintendo Power "top 20" polls for years.

Even in 1988 Link wins! https://superretromania.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/20150614_233506.jpg

I don't doubt that Link to the Past would have been a force in 1996, but I don't think Link as a character would have been that appealing in a Character Battle environment.

It was the design of the 3D Zelda and the increased story elements that would have put him above the likes of Sonic and Mario.

haloiscoolisbak posted...

I feel like DK would be 3 behind Mario and Sonic

DK is an icon and it's never made sense that he's only a mid carder. Maybe in 96 when he was still starring in popular games though he'd fare better

No way he is beating Link. Maybe not Samus, Crono, X or MM either, but absoltely 0 Link.

OFool posted...

Alex Kidd

Who
Even googling this I have no clue

FinaIFantasy posted...

MetalmindStats posted...

FinaIFantasy posted...

show hidden quote(s)

Damn...I thought Crash was around launch...What the holy hell was on this console at first?

Tekken, Rayman, Twisted Metal, Namco Museum Vol. 1, Air Combat (first game of the Ace Combat series), and Battle Arena Toshinden (one of the first 3D and weapons-based fighting games) appear to have been the best-selling / otherwise most notable North American PlayStation releases of 1995.

Anyone from Tekken strong enough in 1996 to matter?

What about Sweet Tooth or Rayman?

Jeez, that has to be one of the weakest launch years in history.

As far as I can tell, Tekken was huge in 1996, with the first game still a best-seller and the second coming out on PlayStation that year, so Heihachi and/or Kazuya would very likely be above the fodder line. Sweet Tooth could fare well on the back of his character design, but I would definitely take Kefka to be stronger. I don't think Rayman would be worth very much, especially since he was much bigger in Europe than North America.

FinaIFantasy posted...

haloiscoolisbak posted...

I feel like DK would be 3 behind Mario and Sonic

DK is an icon and it's never made sense that he's only a mid carder. Maybe in 96 when he was still starring in popular games though he'd fare better

No way he is beating Link. Maybe not Samus, Crono, X or MM either, but absoltely 0 Link.

He destroys Crono imo. Donkey Kong Country broke records for fastest selling game

Crono is definitely more of the type to get a cult following in years to come. Not a guy who is noble 9 right when his game gets released

SF and MK guys would be a lot stronger too.

Nanis23 posted...

OFool posted...

Alex Kidd

Who
Even googling this I have no clue

Then I guess you hace never cared about Sega Master System. He was a mascot before Sonic was created, but only his first game is worth playing.

Zylothewolf posted...

Nanis23 posted...

OFool posted...

show hidden quote(s)

Alex Kidd

Who
Even googling this I have no clue

Then I guess you hace never cared about Sega Master System. He was a mascot before Sonic was created, but only his first game is worth playing.

I'm also guessing the Google Search wasn't very thorough, because the Alex Kidd Wikipedia article is the first result for me.

_SecretSquirrel posted...

Zylothewolf posted...

Nanis23 posted...

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OFool posted...

Alex Kidd

Who
Even googling this I have no clue

Then I guess you hace never cared about Sega Master System. He was a mascot before Sonic was created, but only his first game is worth playing.

I'm also guessing the Google Search wasn't very thorough, because the Alex Kidd Wikipedia article is the first result for me.

No, I mean, even seeing who he is I have never saw his face before nor heard of him

MetalmindStats posted...

FinaIFantasy posted...

Damn...I thought Crash was around launch...What the holy hell was on this console at first?

Tekken, Rayman, Twisted Metal, Namco Museum Vol. 1, Air Combat (first game of the Ace Combat series), and Battle Arena Toshinden (one of the first 3D and weapons-based fighting games) appear to have been the best-selling / otherwise most notable North American PlayStation releases of 1995.

I totally forgot about Ridge Racer somehow, but that lineup having something for everyone is likely why the PlayStation started off strongly, despite it lacking anything considered a true classic these days.

That's not a bad lineup of games, even if Twisted Metal aged poorly and Rayman is impossible to beat. N64 also didn't exist yet, so that head start (plus more mature games plus FF7) allowed it to easily win this console generation.

I feel like the tier lists are missing a lot of things that may have been bigger at the time but then fell away as time went on. There were a ton of good SNES RPGs and a handful of Megadrive ones too. The first Suikoden as well in 95 but that seems to have taken off later.

You had stuff like Darkstalkers, Killer Instinct, Mortal Kombat or even something like Strrets of rage. Maybe something random like Time Crisis does well due to arcades being a bigger thing. Point and click games seemed a lot bigger too. I'd imagine Guybrush would be stronger

Alex Kidd was discussed already but I remember random crap like James Pond, Bubsy, Ristar, Earthworm Jim, Ecco. Theres others too where I can picture them but cant remember the name.

Like I don't know, I feel some characters who would be absolute bottom fodder now may have done well back then. Or maybe I'm just isolating to games me and friends played and thinking they were bigger than they were. I mean obviously stuff like Sonic, Mario and Zelda still does well too

The original Suikoden didn't come out until the tail end of 1996 outside of Japan.

Out of the characters/series you mentioned that I didn't include on my tier list, I feel like only Morrigan Aensland and maybe Earthworm Jim would be above the fodder line, which is what I limited my list to.