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Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1183
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I
was afraid that the Rivalry Rumble result reflected the new reality for
Link vs. Cloud. I mean, seriously, Cloud vs. Sephiroth is a far better
rivalry than Link vs. Ganondorf. Link is an amazing character, but his
rivalry with Ganondorf? That adds almost nothing. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 NEVER FORGET. |
I
was afraid the Rivalry Rumble was a harbinger for Snake but thankfully
it didn't apply when it came to my favorite character preferences
<_< --- Welcome to the League of Stickies. |
I dunno, "failing to show up" in a debated match was definitely a harbinger for Liquid! --- [NO BARKLEY NO PEACE] [NO raytan NO PEACE] |
It can't be a harbinger if it happened before the Rivalry Rumble! ...unless 'failing to show up for a debated match' applies to not showing up at all in this year's bracket. --- Welcome to the League of Stickies. |
red sox 777 posted... I was afraid that the Rivalry Rumble result reflected the new reality for Link vs. Cloud. I mean, seriously, Cloud vs. Sephiroth is a far better rivalry than Link vs. Ganondorf. Link is an amazing character, but his rivalry with Ganondorf? That adds almost nothing. Link vs. Ganon is timeless. I remember arguing that point against the idea of Cloud/Sephiroth maybe making a match of it. There's nothing like it that runs as long and carries the same weight. --- banana |
Link
v Ganondorf wouldn't have even beaten Mario v Sonic- wait I'm not going
to get tricked into spilling more virtual ink on the Rivalry Rumble
again nice try Bacon --- Welcome to the League of Stickies. |
Mario vs. Sonic carries more weight, yeah. Nothing else does in comparison, though. --- banana |
How many Chesters is "Multiplayer, I almost never play single player games" worth? --- Hey man, LlamaGuy did encrypt the passwords. With what? ROT-13? -CJayC |
AxemRedRanger posted... I dunno, "failing to show up" in a debated match was definitely a harbinger for Liquid! And then the guy who beat Liquid just didn't even show up against Vivi. --- "Divine judgment for an evil soul! Sacred Penance! Rest in peace." - Estellise Sidos Heurassein, Tales of Vesperia |
-hotdogturtle-- posted... How many Chesters is "Multiplayer, I almost never play single player games" worth? Can't even be worth 1 Chester, since it hasn't even gotten 1% still. --- "Divine judgment for an evil soul! Sacred Penance! Rest in peace." - Estellise Sidos Heurassein, Tales of Vesperia |
Mario
vs. Sonic would likely beat Link vs. Ganon, but I would laugh so hard
if Link won again. Followed by making a bunch of posts about how Zelda
fans are not drones and Link is just that great of a character.
Objectively. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 NEVER FORGET. |
Yes KH, that was the joke. ..So how would people rank Nintendo's non-Pokemon high-midcarders these days? Think I'd go with: Luigi Zelda Kirby Ganondorf Bowser Yoshi -Luigi has direct wins over most of the others and has looked pretty good lately - all the more impressive when you consider how the other Mario characters have fared. Luigi/Zelda is probably debatable, but I'd favor Luigi. -Kirby is a Nintendo character whose own games aren't very strong. It seems unwise to bet on him against an opponent literally named Zelda. -Kirby outperformed Ganondorf against Sonic, and while the picture and day/night probably had something to do with that, I find it hard to have much confidence in Ganondorf as we get further from Twilight Princess. It's debatable though. -I don't think Ganondorf can beat Zelda. Mario's now had matches both with Zelda and Ganondorf LFFing him against a non-Nintendo threat in a very close match. Zelda held up almost entirely but Ganondorf got hit pretty hard. That doesn't speak well of Ganondorf's ability to win the SFF battle within his own series. -At Bowser's peak in 2005 he only got 52% on Kirby. He's done very little lately to make me think he would still win that. -Ganondorf probably hasn't weathered the years that well but since 2005 he almost always looked better than Bowser. With Bowser's recent performances I think Ganondorf could still take him. -Yoshi hasn't done much to make me think he can contend with the others. The Missingno. match really doesn't even look good for him anymore. Maybe Yoshi could be a viable upset pick over Bowser but that would have more to do with Bowser's weakness. Guess we could rank Fox and below too. Fox Donkey Kong Epona Ike Captain Falcon Meta Knight Nobody past that is particularly respectable, I think. -I feel everybody in the first group beating Fox is a lock and Fox beating everyone in the second group is pretty much a lock. For that matter, if Fox can't beat Blue he can't contend against any of the other big Pokemon either. Fox/Missingno. is probably his only debatable Nintendo match. -Donkey Kong vs. Epona might be debatable but if Donkey Kong is legitimately popular again I'd have difficulty taking the horse over him. Personally, I consider Donkey Kong SFFing Falco by that much fairly impressive. -Donkey Kong > Ike/Captain Falcon was always possible and it'd be hard for me to still pick against him there if he's boosted. -Ike vs. Captain Falcon could be a good match. Ike got 26% on Mario and likely rises with the day vote while Falcon got 30% on Cloud and likely falls with it. Ike probably suffered a little SFF against Mario and Falcon probably had anti-votes helping him. Ike's performances this contest look justified in the end by how well GLaDOS did. And Ike's at least had a recent Fire Emblem that he marginally appears in while I'm not sure how much Falcon would benefit even if there was a new F-Zero. -Meta-Knight remains a big question mark. Feel like he's showed some potential though and he's beaten Wario and Peach outright. He could beat Ike or Captain Falcon and I wouldn't blink. --- [NO BARKLEY NO PEACE] [NO raytan NO PEACE] |
For the night's oddball contest-related thought... Kay Aitch's Most Wanted Returners Liquid Snake - MGS had a seriously killer contest all the way around and Liquid is the most unpredictable of the bunch - where the f*** is Liquid Snake Carmen Sandiego - Widespread recognizability and NostalgiaFAQ adds up to a lot of potential - Was Icon SFFed/Female Overperformance Factor'd by Zelda, would easily have clobbered a good amount of this year's bracket Darth Revan - 46% on Terra (probably 47-48%+ in a 24 hour match) is seriously good knowing what we know now about Terra Vault Boy - Represents Fallout Series and a new Fallout could be out by the time the next contest rolls around Kain Highwind - Scored 41% on Master Chief 2008 which is actually quite good considering - Don't you wanna see all three FF4 characters get into another contest and still fail to win a match Jecht - Showed a lot of promise in his one and only contest - You're gonna cry you always cry --- Welcome to the League of Stickies. |
I'll go Luigi > Zelda > Ganondorf > Bowser > Kirby > Yoshi indirectly. Give me Ganondorf and Bowser > Zelda in a direct matchup. Also, give me Fox > Yoshi. Yoshi only got 54% on Fox in a setup where he would have scored distorted SFF if anything, and the possibility of Retro Studios Star Fox by a next theoretical contest? Oh, yes. --- Welcome to the League of Stickies. |
At
this point, I'm curious as to who else that was in the female bracket
might be worth bringing back. Off the top of my head, Carmen Sandiego
might be an interesting prospect. --- "Divine judgment for an evil soul! Sacred Penance! Rest in peace." - Estellise Sidos Heurassein, Tales of Vesperia |
Massive
swaths of the female bracket were underrated because of what I like to
call Female Overperformance Factor. Tifa made The Boss look weaker than
Sheena Fujibayashi. Yuna scored almost as much on Joanna Dark as Mario
did the year before. Zelda beat in Terra's face so badly the latter
ended up below Tingle in the final stats. The trick is separating the wheat from the chaff, because despite FOF most of the Female Bracket was still irredeemably bad. --- Welcome to the League of Stickies. |
I
sort of wonder about Tifa. The weird thing is that her 49% on Samus
was not the only mid-Noble Nine level performance she's had. She's
performed at that level in around half of all her matches going back to
2005 (or at least it feels that way). Vyse, Samus, The Boss, Sephiroth,
etc. In this last contest, she just put up 45% on Samus again- despite
the rest of FFVII falling off a big cliff since their last meeting in
2006. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 NEVER FORGET. |
Also,
KH, out of curiosity, would you vote for Solid Snake for US President
if he were a Republican? What if his opponent were Obama? And would
you have done so in 2008. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 NEVER FORGET. |
Vyse
came in the same contest that Tifa got less than 44% on Sonic. She
tripled The Boss and nearly upset Samus the next year, but also failed
to double Princess Jokefodder Toadstool on the way. In 2008 she got
SFFed into the ground by Sephiroth, but held up well thanks to
Missingno. backlash in 2010 - but also had wildly disparate performances
including letting Big "Lost To Lloyd" Daddy get 40% on her. Not even this year saw Tifa get away without a blemish on her record. Assuming 70/30 overlap for Yuna leaves Tifa with 62% on Dragonborn, and extrapolated to not even crack 70% against Pyramid Head. She's not so much Noble Nine level so much as she's been wildly inconsistent. --- Welcome to the League of Stickies. |
red sox 777 posted... Also, KH, out of curiosity, would you vote for Solid Snake for US President if he were a Republican? What if his opponent were Obama? And would you have done so in 2008. I have to resist writing in Solid Snake every two years for every office on the ballot as it is, of course I woul- ...Republican hmm ask me after the government's done shutting down --- Welcome to the League of Stickies. |
Shutting down the government sounds more like something Big Boss would do. And Carmen likely underperformed but I think she has little chance of being even good fodder. And do people outside North America even know who she is? She might be subject to Oregon Trail syndrome. Most of the female bracket one-offs who'd be worth seeing again have been seen. Of the others: -Amy Rose probably wasn't even the strongest Sonic female. I really don't see Amy Rose > Rouge being a thing. Not that Rouge is worth getting into the bracket either, though she'd be better than friggin VECTOR. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXExvs6lUgw -With Lucca, Ayla, and Robo having never gotten in, why give Marle another shot first? Two of those others are even females, one of whom is a nerd girl and the other has TJF. The third is a robot. And "being present from the beginning of the game" didn't do a lot of favors for Barret! Wouldn't surprise me if Marle was the weakest of the CT cast. Or tied for it anyways, not sure there'd be too much difference at the bottom there. -Kairi might have been decent up through 2008 or so but we don't need to see her now. -Nightmare bombing means we probably don't need to see anyone from his series again ever. -If I want to see a Mega Man character return, Dr. Wily and Sigma would be way ahead of Roll in priority. She's probably weaker than Rush or even Bass. -Pretty much leaves Sheena. Bringing back a Tales character literally the best option. AHAHAHAHA. --- [NO BARKLEY NO PEACE] [NO raytan NO PEACE] |
Ada
technically was seen in 2008 but she hasn't come back since. And that's
a shame - she got 48% on Amaterasu in a loss. In what world is that not
respectable!? --- Welcome to the League of Stickies. |
Also
discounting the fact that Oregon Trail really wasn't that bad in BGE2
(especially considering it was turbofodder outside of glorious America),
Carmen Sandiego has been available internationally for quite some time.
I'm not expecting the world but she's basically got a midfodder floor
and low midcard ceiling, that's worth seeing again for me especially if we see another bloated bracket. There were a LOT of R1 packs I'd have taken Carmen in with trivial ease. Edit: Also I hate to bring this up considering my personal stance on them but she has a really big chance of catching a sizeable 4chan rally. Food for thought. :/ --- Welcome to the League of Stickies. |
Come
to think of it, I'd rather see Kazooie than anyone from the Female
Bracket who hasn't been back since. Legitimate chance at being at least
as strong as Banjo AND we'd get Indonesian Kazooie out of it! --- [NO BARKLEY NO PEACE] [NO raytan NO PEACE] |
...I think we need to see if Banjo can do anything with a non-Nintendo draw before we even think about Kazooie. --- Welcome to the League of Stickies. |
Kazooie being weak would mean a greater possibility of Kazooie at 0% in Indonesia. Fine with me! Not sure if Kazooie being weaker than Banjo is a safe assumption though. She's as much the main character as Banjo is, has much better dialogue, and based on the first game (haven't played beyond that) she got all the cool moves. Banjo was pretty much her transportation. Banjo was the Yoshi of Banjo-Kazooie! --- [NO BARKLEY NO PEACE] [NO raytan NO PEACE] |
Kazooie's the fan-favorite, but her being above Banjo is really
slim to nil. Jak and Daxter aren't a perfect comparison, but they're
close in a lot of ways and that's like a chasm in strength. Not that I'd mind Kazooie being stronger at all but exceptions from the 'boring, expected' pecking order rarely pan out in the fun ways that they should. --- Welcome to the League of Stickies. |
Reminder
that Oregon Trail didn't just win that poll in Oregon, but absolutely
crushed it, which is probably the best geolocation result ever. --- LET'S GO THE BROWNS, B****! RIP Paul Bearer. Ohhhh nooooo. :( |
Total Pokemon domination in today's poll. --- Luster Soldier --- ~Shield Bearer~ | ~Data Analyst~ Popular at school, but not as cool as raytan7585, Guru Champ! |
Karma Hunter posted... Vyse came in the same contest that Tifa got less than 44% on Sonic. She tripled The Boss and nearly upset Samus the next year, but also failed to double Princess Jokefodder Toadstool on the way. In 2008 she got SFFed into the ground by Sephiroth, but held up well thanks to Missingno. backlash in 2010 - but also had wildly disparate performances including letting Big "Lost To Lloyd" Daddy get 40% on her. Dragonborn had so many reasons to overperform in that match it's not even funny. Don't hold it against Tifa. I will continue to argue that Dissidia 012 allowed Tifa to remain on the same strength level she was at before to cancel the FFVII deboost. --- Play Pac-Man World 2. |
Karma Hunter posted... ctesjbuvf posted...I still think there was overlap between Mario and X though. This was pretty much proved in 2008. I believe Mario is above Samus. Samus would surely also have been screwed by Vivi. Mario could surely also win all the matches Samus won. Would X have lost to Zack in a 1v1? I find this very unlikely, even in 2008. It was pretty clear Link and Mario brought X down. Had the Mario/Vivi/Ganondorf match been in a year with more votals, rallying would've had a much smaller impact and wouldn't be able to make a difference. If votals had been the same in 2008, we would've seen Zack get rallied past Mario too. The plumper got screwed over badly with this bracket placement. It's too bad we can never get a clear vision on Mario vs. Samus, because Mario will always SFF Samus hard. --- *1, *202,000,024 raytan7585 *2, *8,070,446 Kuroko no Basket, *3, *6,495,240 Naruto |
Karma Hunter posted... Also, give me Fox > Yoshi. Yoshi only got 54% on Fox in a setup where he would have scored distorted SFF if anything, and the possibility of Retro Studios Star Fox by a next theoretical contest? Oh, yes. Sorry, but no. Yoshi dominated quite a bit in round 1 this year, and considering he was against Link in round 2 he didn't do half bad. Yoshi went neck to neck with MissingNo in the prime of the glitch, and as you said, Fox would be debatable in that match now. Do we need to look at their contest histories? Even if Fox got something comming up, it's not like Yoshi doesn't. --- *1, *202,000,024 raytan7585 *2, *8,070,446 Kuroko no Basket, *3, *6,495,240 Naruto |
Fun fact - Solaire somehow got a half-decent rally on reddit! http://www.reddit.com/r/darksouls/comments/1hzbrw/dont_forget_to_vote_for_solaire/ And nobody noticed. --- Harmony is peace. Peace is unity. Unity is harmony. I tell this to the King Nook. He ask me to leave. |
ctesjbuvf posted... Would X have lost to Zack in a 1v1? I find this very unlikely, even in 2008. It was pretty clear Link and Mario brought X down. Had the Mario/Vivi/Ganondorf match been in a year with more votals, rallying would've had a much smaller impact and wouldn't be able to make a difference. If votals had been the same in 2008, we would've seen Zack get rallied past Mario too. The plumper got screwed over badly with this bracket placement. It's too bad we can never get a clear vision on Mario vs. Samus, because Mario will always SFF Samus hard. X has overlap. You blithely ignoring my analysis doesn't change the fact that I've already credited him with said overlap. But my very point is that there are varying degrees of overlap. Heavy overlap confined to characters who exist exclusively in a single game can reach 80/20. Same company overlap (Nintendo/Nintendo or Square/Square) is more along the lines of 70/30. The fact that X is able to significantly benefit from a 70/30 split when Mario is getting leeched is more than enough proof that his overlap is more along the lines of a 60/40 split. Crediting Mario with a 60/40 overlap split with X gives him precisely 54.85% on Crono... in a day match. If you believe Crono's vastly superior night vote can shave off a little less than two points off that you've already got the 53/47 Mario/Crono/X ended at. My leaving it at that percentage was conservative. For Crono. You want a 'clean' read on Mario? Send him at a division with Snake and watch how he does compared to Samus. Because the guy that just put up the best performance on Link since 2005 is gonna whip the plumber from pillar to post. Sorry, but no. Yoshi dominated quite a bit in round 1 this year, and considering he was against Link in round 2 he didn't do half bad. Yoshi went neck to neck with MissingNo in the prime of the glitch, and as you said, Fox would be debatable in that match now. Do we need to look at their contest histories? Even if Fox got something comming up, it's not like Yoshi doesn't. Yeah, let's look at their contest histories. Please. Speaking of which, didn't those two share a match in the contest just before the last one we had- http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/3286 Whoa there, is that Fox coming to within 2.5% of Yoshi, in a match where by all accounts he should have been abandoned and LPF'd? My, my, my. Yoshi blowing out R1 turbofodder means precisely nothing when it comes to his shocking vulnerability against Fox. If Yoshi was a real near-elite, Link wouldn't have SFFed him below Raiden. --- Welcome to the League of Stickies. |
AxemRedRanger posted... Come to think of it, I'd rather see Kazooie than anyone from the Female Bracket who hasn't been back since. Legitimate chance at being at least as strong as Banjo AND we'd get Indonesian Kazooie out of it! The problem is that BirdFAQs outright sucks. Falco and Boko both bombed hard. What we really need are more reptiles and amphibians like Frog and Squirtle. Or bring in some cats to see how they compare to DogFAQs. Also bring in Rush, Dogmeat, and CoD Dog. Basically, flood the bracket with animals. Actually, a Best Animal contest would be neat for a smaller contest, plus we'd get a Pokemon winner. As for today's poll, Batman vs. Pikachu, who'd you go with? --- Congratulation to the 2013 CB9 Guru winner, raytan! But hey, at least I'm #4! Current Let's Play: Knights of Pen and Paper (see quote) |
Boko did bad because of his name. If he was named Chocobo he would do far better. --- GameFaqs is NOT the place to go for relationship advice.Nobody here gets any action unless it is their right or left hand.Including me.~Dawn and Dusk~ |
Literally on page 4. Poliwhirl vs Growlithe, ultimate showdown of Dogs vs Frogs. e: Now I want to see Frog face off a dog next contest. Dogmeat, Rush, Amaterasu, any of them would work. Also, more HorseFAQs. --- Congratulation to the 2013 CB9 Guru winner, raytan! But hey, at least I'm #4! Current Let's Play: Knights of Pen and Paper (see quote) |
Safer_777 posted... Boko did bad because of his name. If he was named Chocobo he would do far better. As sad and ridiculous as it sounds, I think it's a factor. That, and Boko's association with FF5 rather than FF7 or something. I still want to see Mog in one of these contests, though. --- raytan stole my sig 'cause he's awesome at predicting GameFAQs contests! Grrrrrrr, I will get my revenge! |
Mog will do bad too. But if he was named Moogle he would do much better of course. --- GameFaqs is NOT the place to go for relationship advice.Nobody here gets any action unless it is their right or left hand.Including me.~Dawn and Dusk~ |
Generic
Species contest would be an interesting spinoff tournament. We would
have such a hard time figuring out who's stronger between Goombas, Koopa
Troopas, Toads, Gorons, Zoras, Moogles, Chocobos, etc. Though Yoshis would have to be the heavy favorite, right? --- "The people who play Final Fantasy 7 actually have lives and dont NEED polls" ~MajinUltima raytan: Champ without picking the champ |
swirIdude posted... Generic Species contest would be an interesting spinoff tournament. We would have such a hard time figuring out who's stronger between Goombas, Koopa Troopas, Toads, Gorons, Zoras, Moogles, Chocobos, etc. Would each Pokemon be considered a separate entry or would "Pokemon" be the super entry that nothing could come close to? --- Agent Triple Zero at your service! I may be the greatone, but raytan is a greatguru. |
_SecretSquirrel posted... swirIdude posted...Generic Species contest would be an interesting spinoff tournament. We would have such a hard time figuring out who's stronger between Goombas, Koopa Troopas, Toads, Gorons, Zoras, Moogles, Chocobos, etc. I want to say separate species...then I want to say maybe we should word the contest theme to ban them somehow <_< --- "The people who play Final Fantasy 7 actually have lives and dont NEED polls" ~MajinUltima raytan: Champ without picking the champ |
I want to see a Generic Species contest now because predicting things like "Humans" and "Elves" would be goddamn impossible. --- ~War~ |
Okay,
now that would be getting TOO generic. I was thinking species that
debuted in video games as opposed to other works of fiction. Human vs Yoshi would be interesting, if only because it would let someone submit Mario as a pic for Human and pic screw us all. --- "The people who play Final Fantasy 7 actually have lives and dont NEED polls" ~MajinUltima raytan: Champ without picking the champ |
Also raytan's guru could easily be converted to Klap Trap <_< --- "The people who play Final Fantasy 7 actually have lives and dont NEED polls" ~MajinUltima raytan: Champ without picking the champ |
Klap Trap vs. Claptrap who ya got --- ~War~ |
****, I have no idea. But probably Claptrap because his contest performance is underrated. --- "The people who play Final Fantasy 7 actually have lives and dont NEED polls" ~MajinUltima raytan: Champ without picking the champ |
FranzyvonKarma posted... Klap Trap vs. Claptrap who ya got Klap Trap. Because there's something about letting Lenneth get close to you that bothers me... and Lenneth's probably weak as hell nowadays. --- "Divine judgment for an evil soul! Sacred Penance! Rest in peace." - Estellise Sidos Heurassein, Tales of Vesperia |
Lenneth was rallied iirc. --- "The people who play Final Fantasy 7 actually have lives and dont NEED polls" ~MajinUltima raytan: Champ without picking the champ |
...a random enemy from Donkey Kong is not going to beat Claptrap It's not like Goomba or something (btw,Goomba>>>Octrock,even though it's Zelda and all) The only way Klap Trap can win is if it's Claptrap vs Clucktrap vs Klaptrap |
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