Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1108

#101 | ZFS | Posted 8/13/2013 9:52:54 AM | message detail
Wrex yuck
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#102 | ZeldaTPLink | Posted 8/13/2013 9:52:57 AM | message detail
Damn, this was going to be the first division in which I won all 9 points.
#103 | raytan7585 | Posted 8/13/2013 9:53:48 AM | message detail
#104 | KamikazePotato | Posted 8/13/2013 9:54:04 AM | message detail
Mordin has the one legitimately great moment in all of Mass Effect 3. He did not deserve to lose to a horse.
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#105 | Xuxon | Posted 8/13/2013 9:54:21 AM | message detail
From: Not_Wylvane | Posted: 8/13/2013 12:43:06 PM | #067
TheOneAboveAll posted...
Oh, I agree with you on that. We have no evidence on this site for Melee being more popular than Brawl. But I think he was right on character strengths from those games. Melee made a lot of old characters far more popular by featuring them. Brawl, not so much. If they weren't in Melee, Brawl didn't give much of a boost, with the exception of Meta Knight.


I don't think Melee had any more of an effect. That one Ice Climber was pretty lackluster, and Mewtwo probably gets much more of his strength from RBY than Smash (especially if you're of the opinion that Red benefits much more from RBY pics than Brawl ones). Plus Roy would suck from having Lucas-level exposure, and G&W's performance wasn't spectacular.

I don't really see how Melee and Brawl can boost characters in different levels. I think both would have the same effect, and if not, I'd lean toward the game with much more exposure.

Melee absolutely had the most effect simply because it affected the strongest characters the most. Zelda and Ganondorf in particular because they (mostly) aren't playable in their games and weren't in the original Smash. Samus, Kirby and Fox gained a ton from Smash in general but it's hard to attribute that to 64 or Melee when both were out before contests started. The second-tier Mario guys probably benefited a good amount as well. Maybe even Mario and Link.
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#106 | Karma Hunter (Topic Creator) | Posted 8/13/2013 9:54:53 AM | message detail
ChenKenichiFan posted...
But Mordin is not a meek nerd; he does justice to the stereotype. Guy can more than hold his own in a fight and is quick to anger and turn violent. Remember all the bodies he positioned outside his clinic as a warning to the local gangs? That ain't Otacon...

Mordin is the first character you get in ME2 and plays a crucial role in both that game and ME3 (bigger than Wrex). He gets great scenes, tons of development, and powerful moments in both. I'd definitely take him over Wrex in a match and think the krogan is (very luckily) benefiting from some weak competition here. Mordin would win this match too, but I sure wouldn't take Wrex over Epona.


...no.

There's no stats or anything I can even really bother to bring up, but no. Wrex would obliterate Mordin. We're talking, like, an SFF beating the likes of which you probably wouldn't even think possible from ME.

People don't remember those little details about Mordin. They remember that he's a nerd, and he very rarely gets play except among the hardcore. If this were only hardcore ME fans that'd be one thing, but this is the kind of thinking that leads to picking Magus > Crono.
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#107 | XIII_rocks | Posted 8/13/2013 9:54:55 AM | message detail
MAGNIFICENT BEAST
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#108 | Samurai7 | Posted 8/13/2013 9:55:21 AM | message detail
ChenKenichiFan posted...
But Mordin is not a meek nerd; he does justice to the stereotype. Guy can more than hold his own in a fight and is quick to anger and turn violent. Remember all the bodies he positioned outside his clinic as a warning to the local gangs? That ain't Otacon...

Mordin is the first character you get in ME2 and plays a crucial role in both that game and ME3 (bigger than Wrex). He gets great scenes, tons of development, and powerful moments in both. I'd definitely take him over Wrex in a match and think the krogan is (very luckily) benefiting from some weak competition here. Mordin would win this match too, but I sure wouldn't take Wrex over Epona.


While I think he is exaggerating Mordin's weakness..... I think it should be pretty obvious that Garrus and Wrex are more popular. I don't know a single person (anecdotal I know) in real life that prefers Mordin over the other two and my career was video game centric for 5 years.
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#109 | ctesjbuvf | Posted 8/13/2013 9:56:08 AM | message detail
TheOneAboveAll posted...
Not_Wylvane posted...
ZeldaTPLink posted...
Also there is a difference between BrawlFAQs and SmashFAQs. Melee is more popular than Brawl, characters from Brawl who didn't appear in Melee shouldn't be as strong.


http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/4183


Games =/= characters. Meta Knight is probably the only character not in Melee that people would care about from Brawl.


Ike. Red. Snake. Sonic.

Of course none of them get their primary strength from Brawl so you got a point.
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#110 | XIII_rocks | Posted 8/13/2013 9:56:20 AM | message detail
Wrex beats Mordin 1v1 but the fanbase would not classify Mordin as just some nerd
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#111 | __Smurf__ | Posted 8/13/2013 9:57:15 AM | message detail
2nd time Mass Effect has cost me in the expert. Not checking to see what game Mordin was from and just assuming he was crap still bugs me.
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#112 | superange128 | Posted 8/13/2013 9:57:28 AM | message detail
ctesjbuvf posted...
TheOneAboveAll posted...
Not_Wylvane posted...
ZeldaTPLink posted...
Also there is a difference between BrawlFAQs and SmashFAQs. Melee is more popular than Brawl, characters from Brawl who didn't appear in Melee shouldn't be as strong.


http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/4183


Games =/= characters. Meta Knight is probably the only character not in Melee that people would care about from Brawl.


Ike. Red. Snake. Sonic.

Of course none of them get their primary strength from Brawl so you got a point.


Ike definitely does to me

Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn are not games many people have played
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#113 | XIII_rocks | Posted 8/13/2013 9:57:48 AM | message detail
Anyway now is not the time to debate strengths

Wrex wins and the Garrus travesty is washed away
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#114 | LinkMarioSamus | Posted 8/13/2013 9:58:10 AM | message detail
TheOneAboveAll posted...
Not_Wylvane posted...
TheOneAboveAll posted...
Not_Wylvane posted...
ZeldaTPLink posted...
Also there is a difference between BrawlFAQs and SmashFAQs. Melee is more popular than Brawl, characters from Brawl who didn't appear in Melee shouldn't be as strong.


http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/4183


Games =/= characters. Meta Knight is probably the only character not in Melee that people would care about from Brawl.


But he was talking about Melee being more popular than Brawl.


Oh, I agree with you on that. We have no evidence on this site for Melee being more popular than Brawl. But I think he was right on character strengths from those games. Melee made a lot of old characters far more popular by featuring them. Brawl, not so much. If they weren't in Melee, Brawl didn't give much of a boost, with the exception of Meta Knight.


We don't really have much evidence for that, but I agree regardless.

Problem is, we didn't have nearly as many "Melee-only" (using the term VERY loosely) characters in the initial contests as we did "Brawl-only" characters later on. Like, let me try to figure this out:

-Fox turned out to be worth 26% on pre-Kingdom Hearts Cloud, we have no idea where he was in 2003, he never showed up again until after being announced for Brawl. For all we know, he needed that to get back into these contests!

-Ness got badly SFFd in 2003, then had 55-45 matches against...Jak and Chie Sato...oh I'm sorry, Carl Johnson. 55-45 victories over 3D platformer characters and GTA characters aren't exactly confidence-inspiring! He also flopped hard in 2007 (losing to Alucard at his weakest and freaking Liquid Snake) and 2008 (losing to freaking Pac-Man), the latter happening after Brawl. Come to think of it, it's not like he did much better in 2010 - that loss to Big Daddy is NOT looking good right now at all, though I would take Ness in a rematch.
-But it's easy to see why Ness doesn't benefit much - he receives no character development whatsoever in his sole game and is a child character, not really the kind to draw in casual voters.

-Captain Falcon was worth 26% on a weaker Crono (compared to pre-2006), and got destroyed by Fox in 2007. From 2008 onwards he stopped fooling around, but that was after Brawl.

That's it. Samus, Zelda, and Ganondorf also all draw considerable strength from Smash Bros. but I'm not willing to place them in the same group as the former three or any of the Brawl leeches. I'm completely unwilling to place the Mario characters in the same situation.
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#115 | ChenKenichiFan | Posted 8/13/2013 9:58:34 AM | message detail
Why do you think that? Mordin received more exposure than Wrex and has bigger moments throughout the latter two (bigger two) games. He's never characterized as a nerd or someone who can't hold his own in a hostile, dangerous world. To the contrary, Mordin is immediately introduced as a loose cannon and someone you don't want to guff with. I think he's a fine #2 as far as squadmates go and feel that Epona is being undersold here. I'd have no problem taking Epona over the likes of Sub-Zero and Jill, which would put her comfortably ahead of Garrus. Mordin didn't do that badly against her.
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#116 | Karma Hunter (Topic Creator) | Posted 8/13/2013 9:58:46 AM | message detail
I mean, if Epona loses to Ike next round while Wrex punches a weakened Red in the face, can we consider the matter settled then?
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#117 | KamikazePotato | Posted 8/13/2013 9:59:19 AM | message detail
Ike gets a bit of strength from being the very first newcomer to be announced on the Dojo site. I don't know if people remember this, but it was a HUGE event when it happened. The entire board was going nuts.

If he had just been some guy announced near the end of the cycle (see: Lucas), I think he'd be equal to Marth rather than a step above.
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#118 | KamikazePotato | Posted 8/13/2013 10:00:10 AM | message detail
Mordin's design is very GameFAQs unfriendly. That's honestly good enough for me to take Wrex over him.
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Black Turtle did a pretty good job.
#119 | ShatteredElysium | Posted 8/13/2013 10:00:24 AM | message detail
XIII_rocks posted...
Wrex beats Mordin 1v1 but the fanbase would not classify Mordin as just some nerd


Pretty much this. I think the only reason I'd take Garrus > Wrex is because of how many people won't see Wrex at all in their playthroughs. If Wrex was forced on you in all 3 then he'd be fan favourite behind Shepard.
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#120 | XIII_rocks | Posted 8/13/2013 10:01:08 AM | message detail
Man this could actually happen
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#121 | ChenKenichiFan | Posted 8/13/2013 10:01:27 AM | message detail
You guys are warping this man. I'm the guy who came up with the "pant-wetting nerd" rationale for why Otacon couldn't win. It does NOT apply to Mordin.
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#122 | XIII_rocks | Posted 8/13/2013 10:03:21 AM | message detail
ShatteredElysium posted...
XIII_rocks posted...
Wrex beats Mordin 1v1 but the fanbase would not classify Mordin as just some nerd


Pretty much this. I think the only reason I'd take Garrus > Wrex is because of how many people won't see Wrex at all in their playthroughs. If Wrex was forced on you in all 3 then he'd be fan favourite behind Shepard.


Probably. ME1 Wrex is better than ME1 Garrus, for sure
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#123 | pjbasis | Posted 8/13/2013 10:03:31 AM | message detail
My bracket is getting wrexed
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#124 | ShatteredElysium | Posted 8/13/2013 10:04:18 AM | message detail
We're not saying it does. We're saying Wrex > Mordin
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#125 | XIII_rocks | Posted 8/13/2013 10:04:28 AM | message detail
ChenKenichiFan posted...
You guys are warping this man. I'm the guy who came up with the "pant-wetting nerd" rationale for why Otacon couldn't win. It does NOT apply to Mordin.


You're absolutely right. But he still loses to Wrex.
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#126 | XIII_rocks | Posted 8/13/2013 10:04:58 AM | message detail
Oh f*** off
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#127 | Then00bAvenger | Posted 8/13/2013 10:05:43 AM | message detail
Alright, we got our bonus poll

Wrex Vs. Garrus Vs. Mordin
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#128 | Karma Hunter (Topic Creator) | Posted 8/13/2013 10:05:44 AM | message detail
ChenKenichiFan posted...
You guys are warping this man. I'm the guy who came up with the "pant-wetting nerd" rationale for why Otacon couldn't win. It does NOT apply to Mordin.


Design is everything. The pants-wetting doesn't even really apply, design is such a huge part of your strength. Garrus and Wrex are textbook badasses and their strengths reflect that. Mordin has a high-pitched, even funny voice. His design is one of the most unappealing you could possibly come up with for GameFAQs. Let's not forget that he's almost as hard to pop up in ME3 as Wrex is! And he doesn't have the ME1 juice working for him, either.

We'll see it in action next round, but this is a flop of an argument. Wrex > Mordin is a stone cold lock.
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#129 | Karma Hunter (Topic Creator) | Posted 8/13/2013 10:06:33 AM | message detail
Then00bAvenger posted...
Alright, we got our bonus poll

Wrex Vs. Garrus Vs. Mordin


Badass fanbase splitting leading to a possible Mordin victory ew

...still probably can't win
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#130 | ChenKenichiFan | Posted 8/13/2013 10:06:35 AM | message detail
It's certainly not clear. Wrex doesn't do much in ME2 and is completely overshadowed by Mordin in ME3. I don't think someone with such a decreased role in the latter two games is the favorite for #2 right behind Garrus.
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#131 | ShatteredElysium | Posted 8/13/2013 10:08:53 AM | message detail
Small sample size but I can't think of one of my friends who likes Mordin more than Wrex. They don't dislike Mordin, they just all love Wrex.
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#132 | Sorozone | Posted 8/13/2013 10:09:04 AM | message detail
If we'are arguing for who is behind Garrus, it's probably Liara tbh.
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#133 | superange128 | Posted 8/13/2013 10:09:53 AM | message detail
I still argue for Tali #2
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#134 | ChenKenichiFan | Posted 8/13/2013 10:10:31 AM | message detail
How many friends do you guys have who rank Mordin and Wrex. Nerd life around here.

Also I prefer Mordin to Wrex.
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#135 | ExThaNemesis | Posted 8/13/2013 10:10:39 AM | message detail
mass effect nerds arguing over their characters, time to bail out of the stats topic for the day.
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#136 | Karma Hunter (Topic Creator) | Posted 8/13/2013 10:12:00 AM | message detail
ChenKenichiFan posted...
How many friends do you guys have who rank Mordin and Wrex. Nerd life around here.

Also I prefer Mordin to Wrex.


Out of like the 20 people I know IRL that have played the ME series, I think *one* prefers Mordin. It's all about Garrus v Wrex intra fanbase, Mordin isn't really in the discussion.
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#137 | FranzyvonKarma | Posted 8/13/2013 10:12:29 AM | message detail
Mass Effect Power Hour over

Time for Cecil to push for 40%
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#138 | Not_Wylvane | Posted 8/13/2013 10:13:14 AM | message detail | (edited)
Cecil finally gets a cut in.

ExThaNemesis posted...
mass effect nerds arguing over their characters, time to bail out of the stats topic for the day.


make it permanent plz thx
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#139 | BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 8/13/2013 10:12:44 AM | message detail
Just got back from lunch and checked to see if Pit or Cecil was winning, had a moment of confusion.

Man, this came outta nowhere.
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#140 | Crimson Dragoon | Posted 8/13/2013 10:12:59 AM | message detail
I don't know anyone who prefers Mordin to Wrex, except for some wierdos on this board tbqh.
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#141 | ChenKenichiFan | Posted 8/13/2013 10:13:00 AM | message detail
I tell ya man, people are passionate about their Mass Effect. I get the feeling if I were someone like Turtle making these exact same Mordin > Wrex posts, someone would be calling me an idiot.

I love it though. We haven't seen such passion from any other new game.
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#142 | falcofan88 | Posted 8/13/2013 10:13:18 AM | message detail
I'M FINISHED!
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#143 | superange128 | Posted 8/13/2013 10:14:27 AM | message detail
ChenKenichiFan posted...
I tell ya man, people are passionate about their Mass Effect. I get the feeling if I were someone like Turtle making these exact same Mordin > Wrex posts, someone would be calling me an idiot.

I love it though. We haven't seen such passion from any other new game.


It helps that Mass Effect is actually a character-driven series unlike many other western games which is one thing I like about it way more than other WRPGs I've played
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#144 | SSBM_Guy | Posted 8/13/2013 10:14:32 AM | message detail
How well liked are Tali and Liara in the general community? I haven't heard much love for Liara and I've seen Tali as a Top 3 Squadmate almost all the time. And yet, I see people saying Liara > Tali in the Stats thread.
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#145 | LinkMarioSamus | Posted 8/13/2013 10:14:40 AM | message detail
This match is making Alucard and Captain Falcon both look bad, which makes sense. Falcon is overreliant on SSB, while Alucard is basically a "one-old-game" character who was in noticeable decline in 2005-2007 yet somehow was fine in 2008 and 2010. However:

-2008: Looks like he could lose to Captain Falcon straight up (almost turned out to be true!). He makes it to round three on the back of weakass competition, although then again he DID give Pikachu a really good fight in round two.

-2010: Owns Magus, bows out respectably to Link. But we already know that just facing Link likely overrated him in the stats, just like with Thrall. Falcon faced Cloud so he's in a similar position.

Also that would mean that Alucard is around the same level as Riku, who got 62% on Ramza. Squirtle got around 71% on Ramza if I remember correctly, which means that Alucard would get only 40% on Squirtle. I understand that Squirtle could be some hidden beast, but that still makes Alucard sound weak.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Alucard loses to Bayonetta next round. Bayonetta has the character design and recency factors (although then again, Snake is there so Bayonetta could act like Mr. Hayabusa...HEY I GOT IT, HACK N'SLASH CHARACTERS JUMP OFF A CLIFF WHEN SNAKE APPEARS BECAUSE HE MAKES THEM BE ASHAMED OF THEIR COMBATIVE WAYS!), plus she has a hyped new game coming with Nintendo backing. All Alucard has is a game that's probably more well-received among the hardcore gamer crowd. I'm not saying that this all guarantees a Bayonetta win, but I think it's an upset worth taking. Also, I think someone said that Bayonetta gets 48% on Captain Falcon assuming a constant Wander - but Wander could have boosted between last contest and now since his game certainly did.

This is also making Blue look even worse, for struggling to beat an LFF'd Fox. Though that simultaneously makes Red look bad, keeping the Wrex > Red upset hope alive.
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#146 | Polycosm | Posted 8/13/2013 10:15:40 AM | message detail
Wow... unless something dramatic happens later, I completely and utterly blew this match. Bummer. I haven't had an expert pick go this wrong all contest. Wrex deserves it though.
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#147 | Not_Wylvane | Posted 8/13/2013 10:16:25 AM | message detail
Cecil mounting a comeback!
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#148 | BK_Sheikah00 | Posted 8/13/2013 10:16:33 AM | message detail
Cecil cutting. Power hour is over alright.
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#149 | FranzyvonKarma | Posted 8/13/2013 10:16:42 AM | message detail
oh god I was joking

it wasn't a joke

go cecil

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#150 | superange128 | Posted 8/13/2013 10:16:58 AM | message detail
SSBM_Guy posted...
How well liked are Tali and Liara in the general community? I haven't heard much love for Liara and I've seen Tali as a Top 3 Squadmate almost all the time. And yet, I see people saying Liara > Tali in the Stats thread.


Tali seems more liked overall to me

Liara is a bit more mixed but probably liked enough to have decent strength here
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