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Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1084
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Generally speaking... Below 20% on Base Link = Fodder 20-25% on BL = Low midcard 25-30% on BL = Midcard 30%+ on BL = High midcard/near elite Keep in mind that Base Link is stronger than 2010 Link. --- "The great GF...Bahamut." "...GF? I...? Using my powers...It is you humans...I fear..." |
And
yeah, I agree that Pac-Man is the litmus test for fodder. If you can't
beat him, you're not worth that much. You're on watch, Drake! And before someone says, "What about Ocelot?" What about him? He's never been that good! He probably beats Pac-Man now anyway. --- http://www.gifsoup.com/view/593815/frasier-and-niles-dance-o.gif |
Ocelot
is as screwy as Liquid. He beat Jill pre-MGS4 and then lost to her
post-MGS4. Whether he performs like fodder or midcard depends on what
Ocelot you're getting that day. --- sig |
And
it'd probably be a good idea to have a "gatekeeper" for each level.
Like, "if you can beat this guy, you're in this group." It'd be a lot
easier than listing everyone who falls into a particular group. --- http://gifsoup.com/view/477513/red-vs-blue-road-rage-part-1-o.gif http://gifsoup.com/view/477534/red-vs-blue-road-rage-part-2-o.gif |
Karma Hunter posted... But the argument here is explicitly that Falcon overperformed significantly on Cloud - and that Samus didn't (well, she did ever so slightly because it was a 12 hour match, but it's accounted for and not nearly as important as Falcon/Ridley posting inflated numbers). All right, fair enough. We'll see in Alucard's next match how he does against the likes of Snake and Bayonetta. And I still think getting 30% against Cloud is indicative of decent strength. I just think Ridley overperformed like crazy against Cloud in their 2010 match-up. --- Drop it to the floor... |
Dunno about anyone else, but Ryu (SF) has always been my gatekeeper for the near-elites. --- sig |
Oh, if you can get 30% against Cloud, you're pretty decent nowadays. --- http://img.imgcake.com/leonhjpguz.jpg |
Karma Hunter posted... Dunno about anyone else, but Ryu (SF) has always been my gatekeeper for the near-elites. Ryu or Dante. Sub-Zero or Jill would probably be a good gatekeeper for middle of the pack. They're both relatively equal based on their matches against Samus. --- http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo22vfguji1qzxr43.gif |
I
think Ocelot just performed better with Cloud seeping more of Jill's
casual appeal (and Midgar Zolom was there too), whereas Kratos and Heavy
influenced the match in a different way. That, and I think the RE5
trailer had just dropped prior to that match, which I think was the
turning point. --- Agent Triple Zero at your service! The artist formerly known as greatone10. |
_SecretSquirrel posted... I think Ocelot just performed better with Cloud seeping more of Jill's casual appeal (and Midgar Zolom was there too), whereas Kratos and Heavy influenced the match in a different way. That, and I think the RE5 trailer had just dropped prior to that match, which I think was the turning point. There's a lot of factors, but... Ocelot just had the most important game of his career dropped. He shouldn't have lost. --- sig |
A Pac-Man fodder line?? That sounds.......so right..... --- Drop it to the floor... |
So how many non-Noble Niners would we take to beat Ryu? Squall Tifa Auron Vincent Bowser Luigi Kirby Ganondorf Charizard Yoshi Zelda? --- "Why must we always choose between certain death and probable death?" "I'm in an epic battle to the death, FIGURE IT OUT YOURSELF!" |
Missingno? |
Pac's
just frustrating as hell to use as a fodder line because he gets SFFed
by damn near everything. Like, if he had lost in a squeaker to Ocelot
instead of beating him back then, it woulda been real easy to peg the
fodder and midcards that year... but instead he won and ran smack dab
into Yoshi, who made him look damn near worthless (Yoshi in turn got SFF
blown away by Mega Man making this a bit of a pointless thought
exercise, but I digress). --- sig |
Oh right, Missingno. Although I dunno. Missingno is hard to figure out. What about Sora or Big Boss? (Assuming a 24 hour match in Sora's case, because he probably doesn't beat Ryu in a night match) --- http://i.imgur.com/CbfFb.jpg |
LeonhartFour posted... So how many non-Noble Niners would we take to beat Ryu? Mega Man X for sure. Zero would probably also make a tough match of it. |
I like the Boss fodderline --- ~Zen |
TheOneAboveAll posted... Missingno? Missingno. may need another contest or two before it finds a value to stick around at. --- Pokemon VGC2013 BC Regional - 16th place Pokemon VGC2013 US National - 39th place |
Oh right, MMX and Zero. Don't know if I'd take Zero > Ryu though. --- "The great GF...Bahamut." "...GF? I...? Using my powers...It is you humans...I fear..." |
I
personally think The Boss is a bit too strong to be a fodder line.
She's stronger than people give her credit for. Like, she could beat a
lot of these guys we're calling low midcarders. --- http://i.imgur.com/CbfFb.jpg |
Boss
is better as a number for the present, because she's consistent and
won't get SFFed by anything short of MGS... but she'll fade away,
eventually, like Vyse did. Pac-Man is less reliable, but he's never
gonna fade away, not ever. --- sig |
Fair
enough guys. There was a reason I put a question mark in there. I
wasn't asking. I was saying that Missingno might be in there but it's
kinda tough to tell. Though I guess if rallies are part of Draven's natural strength then they're part of Missingno's too. |
The Boss will stick around as long as Kojima continues to port the heck out of MGS3, and he's showing no signs of stopping! --- http://gifsoup.com/view/477513/red-vs-blue-road-rage-part-1-o.gif http://gifsoup.com/view/477534/red-vs-blue-road-rage-part-2-o.gif |
Ness would be a good fodder line but he's also a problem since anything Nintendo with worth SFF's him to death. --- Demyx is better than Axel. http://www.last.fm/user/crazydom |
LeonhartFour posted... The Boss will stick around as long as Kojima continues to port the heck out of MGS3, and he's showing no signs of stopping! Kojima what are you doing no one needed 3DS MGS3, not ever --- sig |
I'm
partial to the Laharl fodder line. If you can't beat an RPG character
with nothing more than a cult fanbase, you shouldn't be advancing to the
second round. --- Agent Triple Zero at your service! The artist formerly known as greatone10. |
Although
it's kind of funny that we're arguing between The Boss and Pac-Man and
they're about to share a common opponent in Nathan Drake! Drake should be stronger this year than he was in 2010 though. I'd be a little surprised if he lost to Pac-Man. Not shocked, but I think he's a solid favorite going into that match. --- Guess who I am! http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs3/1345748_o.gif |
That would mean acknowledging Laharl is halfway decent, and he isn't! --- http://i43.tinypic.com/dgwh0.gif http://www.majhost.com/gallery/atukam/OHWD/snownd.gif |
Belated as hell but only just got around to doing it. You couldn't make it up. Oracle Consensus pick for Spring Breeze Dancin'? 8.88% --- Crucifying my Oracle average one match at a time |
Laharl is a good fodder line, but we're taking about the low-midcard line here. --- Black Turtle did a pretty good job. |
I
just realized this. If Charizard and Zero are legit near-elites (which
we're defining as 45% on Sonic), Mega Man would need to be worth a ton
to get through that match. I mean, we're talking 60/40-ing Charizard and
SFFing Zero into the ground. But I'm okay with that. I don't know if a non-bandwagoned Charizard is a legit near-elite. I could see him being worth 40% or less on Sonic, let alone Mega Man. |
LeonhartFour posted... Although it's kind of funny that we're arguing between The Boss and Pac-Man and they're about to share a common opponent in Nathan Drake! ...wait, what the- ... holy crap Pac-Man isn't the board favorite in that match, I don't see any way he doesn't smoke it leaderboard here I com- wait --- sig |
(I see no way Pac-Man loses that match in my estimation, I was pretty positive the board would have him as a favorite) --- sig |
Yeah, I gathered that. I just think Drake's going to be better now than he was in 2010, and I'd take Boss > Pac-Man. --- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/Sensui22/1248835958206.png |
The
Mincecraft avatar may help Drake stand out quite a bit. It's usually
the crazy looking characters that stand out against the Generic McDudes,
but against a circle and some cubes, Drake could have the pic
advantage. --- Chen Kenichi's #1 Fan (also Yoblazer) http://i.imgur.com/xiKRQ2F.gif |
Boss
beat the crap out of Drake in the middle of the day, though, and I'm
actually inclined to think of him as weaker since then - there's some
real truth to the idea that this site is populated in large part by
people who stopped playing video games in like 2006. Drake is that kind
of 'new' generic character brand that just bombs in these things, hard. I guess we'll see! --- sig |
I
dunno. I think the PS3 being the dominant platform nowadays will help
Drake since Uncharted was the system's premiere exclusive franchise this
gen. Maybe I'm wrong. Plus, he's had Uncharted 3 since the last
contest. --- "Hold on a minute! That testimony stinks!" "Witness! You can't just say 'Hello' and expect us to get anywhere! I want you to testify!" |
ChenKenichiFan posted... The Mincecraft avatar may help Drake stand out quite a bit. It's usually the crazy looking characters that stand out against the Generic McDudes, but against a circle and some cubes, Drake could have the pic advantage. I'll concede this thing at least. When I saw that match I initially went "generic name one, generic name two, PAC-MAN" and my mind screamed no-brainer. --- sig |
Drake could lose that, but I seriously doubt he's gotten weaker since then. --- Black Turtle did a pretty good job. |
My entire bracket hinges on him being alright, so he'd better not f*** this up in R1. --- Chen Kenichi's #1 Fan (also Yoblazer) http://i.imgur.com/NQTthNf.jpg |
LeonhartFour posted... Generally speaking... Wait. I thought 2010 Link was worth 52.23% on Base Link? --- Crucifying my Oracle average one match at a time |
ChenKenichiFan posted... My entire bracket hinges on him being alright, so he'd better not f*** this up in R1. Fox is going to R3 yo I'm so sorry --- sig |
ShatteredElysium posted... Wait. I thought 2010 Link was worth 52.23% on Base Link? I think this assumes 2010 Cloud = 2003 Cloud, which ALSO isn't true. --- http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab48/Leonhart4/Squall.jpg |
TheOneAboveAll posted... I just realized this. If Charizard and Zero are legit near-elites (which we're defining as 45% on Sonic), Mega Man would need to be worth a ton to get through that match. I mean, we're talking 60/40-ing Charizard and SFFing Zero into the ground. Well yes, that's the reason Mega Man is a heavy underdog against Charizard. Last time Mega Man was stuck with Zero he lost to freakin' Weighted Companion Cube. Granted that was a bit different with Snake taking up so much %age, but sticking Mega Man with Zero of all people against anybody with legit strength is just evil. Horribly, horribly evil. --- www.gamefaqscontests.com www.gamefaqscontests.com/gallery |
ShatteredElysium posted... LeonhartFour posted...Generally speaking... Who made that calculation? Link 2K2/2K3 would stomp current Link/2010 Link. Could be 54+%. At least 53%. Link has very clearly lost a step. --- www.gamefaqscontests.com www.gamefaqscontests.com/gallery |
ChenKenichiFan posted... I think it wouldn't hurt to establish different levels of "midcard," or at least simply acknowledge that midcard is easily the largest tier of characters we have. The Noble 9 are nine. The near-elites are like... another dozen? Then we have a ton of characters who'd never challenge someone like Bowser but shouldn't be called fodder either. Because of the expanded field of characters this year, I would like to suggest the idea of a "Near Fodder" level. Characters that are considered to be "Near Fodder" have the potential to fluctuate below and above the fodder line from year to year. So this my suggestion for the different levels of "midcard": Near Fodder Low Midcarder Solid Midcarder Near Elite --- Luster Soldier --- ~Shield Bearer~ | ~Data Analyst~ Popular at school, but not as cool as SuperNiceDog, Guru Champ! |
creativename posted... ShatteredElysium posted...LeonhartFour posted...Generally speaking... It's from Ngamer's site http://thengamer.com/xstats/ranks.php?name=Link I have no idea whose value it is using though --- Crucifying my Oracle average one match at a time |
Maybe Isaac from Golden Sun as the fodder line? Crash/Spyro could also probably work. I think Big Daddy would be a good tier divider in the middle since he doesn't get SFFed by the large numbers of Nintendo/Square characters. |
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