Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1079

#201 | ctesjbuvf | Posted 7/26/2013 10:18:48 AM | message detail
Dammit Zack, don't throw it all away like that!

If Kefka can just throw Zack's small updates the hell away like that and way more, then no way Zack is coming back.
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*2, *8,070,446 Kuroko no Basket
*3, *6,495,240 Naruto
#202 | turbopuns | Posted 7/26/2013 10:19:08 AM | message detail
ExThaNemesis posted...
Bragging about getting a Kefka match right out of skill is like bragging about winning at the roulette wheel out of skill, man. Just stop.


I'm not bragging!

I think you all want me to be bragging just so you can argue with me because you're sour over getting it wrong.

Let me say this loud and clear:

I AM NOT GOOD AT THESE CONTESTS.

Here's a list of all the wrong picks I've made already:
Waluigi
Marth
Jak
Chrom
Miles Edgeworth
Thrall
Captain Falcon
N


All that happened is, prior to this match, I didn't know that Zack was so heavily favored on B8 (because I don't keep up with this stuff: hint hint) and so when I saw the board going crazy over Kefka winning I thought "wow, glad I didn't look at the stats!" That's all I was saying. And then you all took it the wrong way and it turned into this ridiculous discussion.
#203 | HaRRicH | Posted 7/26/2013 10:19:32 AM | message detail
ctesjbuvf posted...
If Kefka wins, I'll go ahead and say we're seeing a case of rSFF here. Zack is stronger overall, but the FF fanbase prefer Kefka above him, so while Zack has more support from the outside, the fact that the fanbase prefer Kefka will be what gives him the win.


It's odd to consider this when Zack's proven himself capable of SFF in the past; he tripled Cecil and doubled Zidane in 2008, then got ~59% on Yuna before outperforming Cid Highwind against Mega Man in 2010. That a number of different SFF-matches and comparisons that show he's legit with the FF-community, so I don't think the rSFF-theory likely applies to Kefka/Zack (though I'd take Cid Highwind to beat Zack for rSFF in that regard).

So what's changed since 2010? Kefka's shown a lot of new potential, likely due to Dissidia...and FF7's shown new weaknesses that even first round anti-votes from previous years don't suggest. The answer's probably between those two factors. This result leaves a lot of questions to still be answered though.
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#204 | ZeldaTPLink | Posted 7/26/2013 10:19:36 AM | message detail
I have Ryu winning, but if he doesn't, I'll root for the evil clown.

So he can make everybody lose 1 point. <evil laugh>
#205 | SliceSabre | Posted 7/26/2013 10:19:50 AM | message detail
300 vote barrier reached.

gg zack
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@w@
Gamertag: SliceSabre
#206 | KanzarisKelshen | Posted 7/26/2013 10:20:29 AM | message detail
red sox 777 posted...
Bad update for Zack, but he's made a lot of progress against the Squall/Terra projection in the last 15 minutes still. Current projection: Kefka wins with 51.95%.


Man, I wish we had a direct barometer to measure FF6 against 7...here's some crazy idea I just came up with: using CT vs FF7 (CT can't be that far way from old-school FF6 in trends), how does Zack do?
#207 | red sox 777 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:21:08 AM | message detail
And that Squall/Terra match even had an ASV. I guess we're in pretty much uncharted territory here. Which might be expected given the absence of a contest for so long.
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Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick
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#208 | ExThaNemesis | Posted 7/26/2013 10:21:09 AM | message detail
Sorry turbo, don't take any offense to it. When we get blindsided like this, even the slightest insinuation that we're being mocked is likely to cause the sort of reaction you just got.

WHY IS NO ONE EXPLAINING WHAT HAPPENED TO RYU H HE SHOULD BE DOMINATING FFFF
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#209 | Regaro_Ukiera | Posted 7/26/2013 10:21:53 AM | message detail
#210 | raginbull911 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:22:04 AM | message detail
TheOneAboveAll posted...
turbopuns posted...
Karma Hunter, I understand that analyzing matches and watching trends from year to year helps people make informed decisions. But look at it from a casual's perspective.

I didn't have any knowledge of the stats or these characters' previous matches. I can't tell you a list of all the games Kefka and Zack have made appearances in, much less how popular any of those games were. But I am a gamer and have a general knowledge of how popular FFVI and FFVII are on the Internet, and the sort of people who frequent gameFAQs. So I look at the two and pick Kefka with a good deal of confidence. Now it looks like I'm right and you're saying "well you just got lucky".

No. I used what knowledge I had to predict the result, and I predicted correctly. I don't think "luck" has as much to do with it as the fact that there are some imperfections in the stats that can't easily be predicted or accounted for from one contest to the next.


You're being ridiculous. You're saying that "common sense" is better than detailed study of these contests. Common sense is what the board had in 2002 (I won't say "we"; I was pretty much only a lurker back then). And after studying what happened, every single one of us who has been here for 11 years would wreck our 2002 selves in ability to predict these things. "Common sense" only gets you so far. Heck, "common sense" will tell you that Mario is untouchable in these things, not that he gets almost doubled by Link. "Common sense" might be useful in being a top casual, but it won't put you near anyone on the board.

Here's a challenge: go through the old brackets from 2004 onwards and make your picks based on what you think common sense is. Then see how badly you would have lost to the Guru consensus. It's not even close.



I might get lambasted for this, but I kind of look at these contests the same way I look at baseball. Stats and trending are probably 80-90% (if not more) of the story when it comes to predicting outcomes, but there's always the variable "human" factor. In a baseball player's case, that can be anything from being an emotional headcase to being suddenly injury prone. In these contests, it can mean a character's fanbase suddenly turning on him or an unpredictable collective community paradigm shift towards a character or game.

Those who are able to predict the "human" factor win the World Series instead of just consistently making the playoffs. Or, win these contests instead of consistently placing in the top 50.
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#211 | Kotetsu534 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:22:15 AM | message detail
I got pulled into a game of LoL after the third update (played Rumble, went 5/3/13, won in a fairly close game, thanks for asking) so I'm catching up here...

- looks like Kefka's lead has stalled out a bit. No real increase in the last 20 minutes. His trends against Bowser involved a huge drop after breaking 40% on him for a good while, so that might be trouble for him. (As I write that, Zack dies off and Kefka breaks 300 votes.)

- Hayabusa looks consigned to third, though he might be the first third placer to hit 30%.

- Casuals will have Kefka. But for every match like this where looking at past results screws you over, there are 20 more where they guide you correctly. It's about predicting what changes will have happened between contests - well done if you called it.

- Man Kefka is a legendary contest troll.
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#212 | spooky96 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:22:31 AM | message detail
Damn Zack is playing with Ryu instead of Kefka.

...
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Pokemon Showdown Peak Ranking OU: 2004
And then lost 7 matches in a row >_>
#213 | KanzarisKelshen | Posted 7/26/2013 10:22:31 AM | message detail
ExThaNemesis posted...
Sorry turbo, don't take any offense to it. When we get blindsided like this, even the slightest insinuation that we're being mocked is likely to cause the sort of reaction you just got.

WHY IS NO ONE EXPLAINING WHAT HAPPENED TO RYU H HE SHOULD BE DOMINATING FFFF


Badass SFF. Zack takes his 'cool sworddude with good design' vote and steals every last bit of it. That's my take on it anyway.
#214 | ctesjbuvf | Posted 7/26/2013 10:22:36 AM | message detail
Kefka's not stopping.
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#215 | ZeldaTPLink | Posted 7/26/2013 10:22:47 AM | message detail
2013: The Fall of Final Fantasy VII
#216 | raginbull911 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:23:45 AM | message detail | (edited)
Last split:

Kefka +15 to Zack
Zack +19 to Ryu

*edit because I screwed the names up!
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I pwn you all!
#217 | TheOceIot | Posted 7/26/2013 10:23:06 AM | message detail
I'll tell you why Ryu isn't winning

Ninja Gaiden 3
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#218 | spooky96 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:23:46 AM | message detail
TheOceIot posted...
I'll tell you why Ryu isn't winning

Ninja Gaiden 3


WOAH
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Pokemon Showdown Peak Ranking OU: 2004
And then lost 7 matches in a row >_>
#219 | red sox 777 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:23:53 AM | message detail
See, the problem is, while there has been a wealth of CT/FFVII matches in the past, not one of them was in the 12-hour format!
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Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick
your 7 time champion, Link.
#220 | BK_Sheikah00 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:23:54 AM | message detail
Holy crap. I voted for Zack, and when I saw the results and that he was ahead of Ryu, I was happy and proud of myself. Didn't even bother looking at Kefka because I thought he would be a non-factor. And as I was leaving the results page, my eyes took a quick glance at Kefka's percentage and my mouth just dropped.

What the hell is going on? Has GameFAQs finally realized who's the best FF villain? or maybe Ryu just sucks. I'm losing a point in my bracket and getting -6 in the expert, but this result is just beautiful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jVcn6I452I
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Hey, its that SuperNiceDog! Congrats to the Guru 2011 winner
#221 | TheKoolAidShoto | Posted 7/26/2013 10:23:56 AM | message detail
Ninja Gaiden 3/10 was so goddamn bad, it almost made me not want to vote for him. And Ninja Gaiden Black is a top 10-15 game for me.
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F*** BT
#222 | MegatokyoEd | Posted 7/26/2013 10:24:42 AM | message detail
I can easily buy Ninja Gaiden 3 weakening Ryu H a bit. The games negative reception is infamous. Hell, a lot of fans consider, and hope, the series is dead.
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#223 | Regaro_Ukiera | Posted 7/26/2013 10:25:09 AM | message detail
Let's hope this holds even though I'm pretty sure I have Zack in r2 as well. My bracket is practically dead so let's go for favorites and upsets
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#224 | ZeldaTPLink | Posted 7/26/2013 10:26:51 AM | message detail | (edited)
BK_Sheikah00 posted...
Holy crap. I voted for Zack, and when I saw the results and that he was ahead of Ryu, I was happy and proud of myself. Didn't even bother looking at Kefka because I thought he would be a non-factor. And as I was leaving the results page, my eyes took a quick glance at Kefka's percentage and my mouth just dropped.

What the hell is going on? Has GameFAQs finally realized who's the best FF villain? or maybe Ryu just sucks. I'm losing a point in my bracket and getting -6 in the expert, but this result is just beautiful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jVcn6I452I


FFVII is finally getting knocked out of its throne.

Next step: Zelda.
#225 | KanzarisKelshen | Posted 7/26/2013 10:27:15 AM | message detail
red sox 777 posted...
See, the problem is, while there has been a wealth of CT/FFVII matches in the past, not one of them was in the 12-hour format!


Hmm...how about Sephiroth/Missingno? Not even close to ideal by any stretch, but a joke start against a not-quite-totally-antivoted Sephiroth is closest to what we got here, I guess.
#226 | SliceSabre | Posted 7/26/2013 10:27:32 AM | message detail
ExThaNemesis posted...
Sorry turbo, don't take any offense to it. When we get blindsided like this, even the slightest insinuation that we're being mocked is likely to cause the sort of reaction you just got.

WHY IS NO ONE EXPLAINING WHAT HAPPENED TO RYU H HE SHOULD BE DOMINATING FFFF

When was his last actual game to help him get support? I mean his recent games were remakes/ports.
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#227 | TheKoolAidShoto | Posted 7/26/2013 10:28:25 AM | message detail
Quite honestly, NG3 was goddamn f***in' horrible, I don't want to see another NG game from Team Ninja. Itagaki took most of the talent to Valhalla Games, and the NG team is a shell of it's former self, shamelessly copying more and more elements of modern game design and erasing everything that was unique about the first game(and the second one, to a lesser extent).
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F*** BT
#228 | TheOneAboveAll (Topic Creator) | Posted 7/26/2013 10:29:33 AM | message detail
turbopuns posted...
ExThaNemesis posted...
Bragging about getting a Kefka match right out of skill is like bragging about winning at the roulette wheel out of skill, man. Just stop.


I'm not bragging!

I think you all want me to be bragging just so you can argue with me because you're sour over getting it wrong.

Let me say this loud and clear:

I AM NOT GOOD AT THESE CONTESTS.

Here's a list of all the wrong picks I've made already:
Waluigi
Marth
Jak
Chrom
Miles Edgeworth
Thrall
Captain Falcon
N


All that happened is, prior to this match, I didn't know that Zack was so heavily favored on B8 (because I don't keep up with this stuff: hint hint) and so when I saw the board going crazy over Kefka winning I thought "wow, glad I didn't look at the stats!" That's all I was saying. And then you all took it the wrong way and it turned into this ridiculous discussion.


Our point is that that's a weird thing to think. If you had looked at the stats, you might not have picked Kefka correctly, but you probably get at least 6 of those other 8 right.
#229 | BK_Sheikah00 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:29:38 AM | message detail
Anyway... So now Yuna > Chief is a lock, right?
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Hey, its that SuperNiceDog! Congrats to the Guru 2011 winner
#230 | LinkMarioSamus | Posted 7/26/2013 10:31:24 AM | message detail
SliceSabre posted...
ExThaNemesis posted...
Sorry turbo, don't take any offense to it. When we get blindsided like this, even the slightest insinuation that we're being mocked is likely to cause the sort of reaction you just got.

WHY IS NO ONE EXPLAINING WHAT HAPPENED TO RYU H HE SHOULD BE DOMINATING FFFF

When was his last actual game to help him get support? I mean his recent games were remakes/ports.


Ninja Gaiden II. Ryu beat Zero in the same year as that game's release, though to be fair Mega Man characters looked like ass that contest.

(screw X's fraudulent close match with Mario in R2)
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#231 | red sox 777 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:31:47 AM | message detail
Sephiroth/Missingno is going to show Zack crushing this match, but remember, Missingno had a lead of 200 within 5 minutes.
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Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick
your 7 time champion, Link.
#232 | spooky96 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:32:04 AM | message detail
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#233 | paulg235 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:32:17 AM | message detail
BK_Sheikah00 posted...
Anyway... So now Yuna > Chief is a lock, right?


Well, he haven't seen FFX perform yet, so...
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#234 | LinkMarioSamus | Posted 7/26/2013 10:33:03 AM | message detail
BK_Sheikah00 posted...
Anyway... So now Yuna > Chief is a lock, right?


How does this match say ANYTHING about that?

Well that was my gut reaction, but I understand where you're coming from. You also helped me to realize some sheer irony: look who Yuna and Chief lost to in our last character battle.
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#235 | red sox 777 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:33:05 AM | message detail
Another cut. Meanwhile, Zack's lead on Ryu has doubled in the last half hour.
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Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick
your 7 time champion, Link.
#236 | MegatokyoEd | Posted 7/26/2013 10:33:17 AM | message detail
BK_Sheikah00 posted...
Anyway... So now Yuna > Chief is a lock, right?


It was a lock since the Xbone debacle. I expect Chief to get antivoted worse than ever this year.
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#237 | KanzarisKelshen | Posted 7/26/2013 10:33:21 AM | message detail
red sox 777 posted...
Sephiroth/Missingno is going to show Zack crushing this match, but remember, Missingno had a lead of 200 within 5 minutes.


Bah, it's freakin' impossible to get a decent gauge on this crap! Nothing to be done but cheer for Zack and hope he can do the impossible then.
#238 | turbopuns | Posted 7/26/2013 10:34:09 AM | message detail
TheOneAboveAll posted...
Our point is that that's a weird thing to think. If you had looked at the stats, you might not have picked Kefka correctly, but you probably get at least 6 of those other 8 right.


I have said nothing to suggest that what you're saying isn't true.

As I've stated about 3-4 times now, I was making a comment about this match.
#239 | raginbull911 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:34:55 AM | message detail
BK_Sheikah00 posted...
Anyway... So now Yuna > Chief is a lock, right?


If FFXHD was out by now I'd say yes. But who knows.. I definitely wouldn't say it's a lock.
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#240 | HaRRicH | Posted 7/26/2013 10:35:50 AM | message detail | (edited)
If SB decides to do sprites in Round Three, we might have have a match on our hands: anybody remember the one time Kefka got a sprite-pic?

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/1997
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/2009

Kefka beat Wesker far worse than Mithos, probably because of his sprite. And who else is Kefka facing in Round Three? Solid S***.

Save us, Epona!
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#241 | BK_Sheikah00 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:36:08 AM | message detail
LinkMarioSamus posted...
BK_Sheikah00 posted...
Anyway... So now Yuna > Chief is a lock, right?


How does this match say ANYTHING about that?


You pretty much answered it yourself.

LinkMarioSamus posted...
look who Yuna and Chief lost to in our last character battle.

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#242 | LinkMarioSamus | Posted 7/26/2013 10:37:26 AM | message detail
If the theme is "first appearance", I highly doubt that Kefka's getting that angel sprite.
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#243 | tgs2 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:37:38 AM | message detail
I think it has just been the FF side characters so far that has been sucking it up. Yeah they get antivoted, but Sephiroth still looked really strong while another strong character, Vincent, looked like ****. Aeris performed okay when you compare her bad performance with Sheppard's equally bad performance.

This bodes well for Squall, Auron, and Yuna. Sucks for Gilgamesh, and who cares about Tidus really.
#244 | --Smurf-- | Posted 7/26/2013 10:38:41 AM | message detail
If only Snake was still at his pre-2005 strength, Solid **** may have been capable to actually lose to sprite Kefka.
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#245 | SliceSabre | Posted 7/26/2013 10:38:47 AM | message detail
I know I will be giving up my vote to anti-vote Chief this year.
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#246 | redrocket | Posted 7/26/2013 10:39:09 AM | message detail
LinkMarioSamus posted...
If the theme is "first appearance", I highly doubt that Kefka's getting that angel sprite.


So Kefka get's his cutscene sprite finally? Kefka a lock to Round 4 then!
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#247 | LinkMarioSamus | Posted 7/26/2013 10:42:04 AM | message detail | (edited)
BK_Sheikah00 posted...
LinkMarioSamus posted...
BK_Sheikah00 posted...
Anyway... So now Yuna > Chief is a lock, right?


How does this match say ANYTHING about that?


You pretty much answered it yourself.

LinkMarioSamus posted...
look who Yuna and Chief lost to in our last character battle.


I think plugging in Yuna's percentage on Zack and Chief's percentage on Ryu would give a victory to Chief, although to be fair Zack is probably being hurt by Kefka.

Or alternately, Kefka really is STFing his way to victory.

HOWEVER, Chief gets an advantage for being the only day-oriented character in that match (though you could say the same about Ryu here, lol) - and IIRC the other two have TERRIBLE day votes. Plus, I think he could stand out quite a lot, though Chief is probably the last character you'd expect to benefit from STF (screw 2007...that was probably more bandwagoning than STF anyway).
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#248 | paulg235 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:39:48 AM | message detail
Sprite Kefka over Solid **** would be one the best and funniest results we've ever seen.
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#249 | MegatokyoEd | Posted 7/26/2013 10:40:52 AM | message detail
Sprite Kefka beating Solid **** would be the greatest result in contest history.
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#250 | raginbull911 | Posted 7/26/2013 10:41:30 AM | message detail
To the whole Chief vs Yuna debate, doesn't Chief historically perform better in multi-way contests? Claire's not a threat to win, but she's not Chester/Yuri either. I remember Chief crushing Yuna when they met in a multi-way before, but I could be wrong.
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