Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1077

#301 | Blairville | Posted 7/24/2013 10:02:05 PM | message detail
The Dark Link rule?
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#302 | charmander6000 | Posted 7/24/2013 10:02:53 PM | message detail
Honestly, the thing most worrying me about Ike next round is that RIDICULOUS board vote Epona had. If that sticks around, I'm not sure Ike has the trends to recover, intrinsic strength be damned.

The board vote for Epona won't be as strong, both GlaDOS and Ike are board favourites.
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#303 | LeonhartFour | Posted 7/24/2013 10:03:45 PM | message detail
charmander6000 posted...
38% on Hayabusa isn't THAT stellar of a performance, honestly. He's basically equal with Spy.

Sure it is, Hayabusa has shown to have strength, he went even with Zero and for what it's worth won over Master Chief.


40% on Master Chief isn't a good performance either.

And he went even on Zero when Mega Man was at its weakest, and still managed to get slaughtered the next round anyway.
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#304 | Team Rocket Elite (Moderator) | Posted 7/24/2013 10:04:50 PM | message detail
Blairville posted...
The Dark Link rule?


Last time we asked, Dark Link was banned. He's a completely different character so he's pretty much getting banned for his connection to Link.
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#305 | LeonhartFour | Posted 7/24/2013 10:05:04 PM | message detail
Basically what I'm saying is that you can't trust Hayabusa's performances because they're not consistent. Dude got doubled by Dante at one point, too, remember.

And I wouldn't take 38% on him to be particularly impressive.
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#306 | hylianknight3 | Posted 7/24/2013 10:06:32 PM | message detail
Team Rocket Elite posted...
Blairville posted...
The Dark Link rule?


Last time we asked, Dark Link was banned. He's a completely different character so he's pretty much getting banned for his connection to Link.


How long ago was that?
#307 | Team Rocket Elite (Moderator) | Posted 7/24/2013 10:06:55 PM | message detail
Ike fell 10% from the 1 minute mark and Epona looks to be about the same. I don't think Epona will have a large advantage during the board vote and she may not have any advantage at all.
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Pokemon VGC2013 BC Regional - 16th place
Pokemon VGC2013 US National - 39th place
#308 | vcharon | Posted 7/24/2013 10:07:33 PM | message detail
Dark Link was stated to be banned some time last year. An actual character, an end boss and recurring character. Apparently a horse is fine though...
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#309 | Karma Hunter | Posted 7/24/2013 10:08:55 PM | message detail
The point is moot. People are going to vote their brackets. GlaDOS is going to have the board there, relatively.
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#310 | KanzarisKelshen | Posted 7/24/2013 10:08:57 PM | message detail
LeonhartFour posted...
Basically what I'm saying is that you can't trust Hayabusa's performances because they're not consistent. Dude got doubled by Dante at one point, too, remember.

And I wouldn't take 38% on him to be particularly impressive.


Case in point: 2007 goes from 'Ryu Hayabusa beats Kingdom Hearts' to 'Ryu Hayabusa loses to Riku'. That's the definition of inconsistency, and I wonder if Zack won't just Sword Factor away all his badass appeal and make him look like fodder.
#311 | Kotetsu534 | Posted 7/24/2013 10:10:06 PM | message detail | (edited)
We do get a little bit more information before we have to call Epona/Ike/GlaDOS - how Shepard does in R2 vs. Aerith and how Wrex does in R1 vs. Cecil/Pit. If they show up big time Epona looks good, if they fold then Epona looks pretty weak. I wouldn't read too much into 70% on Niko or whatever Epona ends up at since third place Generic McDude's have absolutely sucked this contest. We also get to see some more Nintendo LFF matches too to get a judgment on how bad it might be (I don't really expect a mostly Smash character and a purely Zelda character to have gigantic overlap, really).
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#312 | LeonhartFour | Posted 7/24/2013 10:11:07 PM | message detail
I don't think Shepard's a good barometer for Mordin.

If Wrex flops though, then yeah, this makes this performance look retroactively worse for Epona.
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#313 | Kotetsu534 | Posted 7/24/2013 10:11:25 PM | message detail
Yep, that's the main reason I'm not too worried about Hayabusa - anytime he's gone up against characters with superior/equal design appeal and noteable strength he collapses.
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#314 | xp1337 | Posted 7/24/2013 10:12:16 PM | message detail
vcharon posted...
Dark Link was stated to be banned some time last year. An actual character, an end boss and recurring character. Apparently a horse is fine though...

It's actually really weird considering we have L-Block, Missingno, etc. as allowed. Presumably it's because Bacon doesn't want to risk having another Link-tier character in the bracket, but seeing as how he makes the bracket and doesn't seem to care about setting up SFF/LFF matches I'm actually a bit shocked he hasn't allowed it and just set up Link/Dark Link in R2 or something.
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#315 | -Tofa7- | Posted 7/24/2013 10:12:38 PM | message detail
Dark Link ban is the worst thing ever. That character has legitimate strength and would add some serious fun to the contest as an unknown variable.

The hilarious thing is, if Link ever got taken out of a contest, I would easily pick Dark Link to win without any hesitation. It's 100% a Link proxy. It would wreck harder than Majora's Mask did in GotD as the OoT proxy.
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#316 | vcharon | Posted 7/24/2013 10:13:37 PM | message detail
Dark Link would be interesting if you simply MUST have a Zelda joke. Epona is just going to get blown away by Snake regardless of next round... but... Dark Link vs. Snake? Actually interesting.
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#317 | Karma Hunter | Posted 7/24/2013 10:13:55 PM | message detail
Complaining about the Dark Link ban, really

what is wrong with you people
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#318 | Team Rocket Elite (Moderator) | Posted 7/24/2013 10:15:17 PM | message detail
hylianknight3 posted...
Team Rocket Elite posted...
Blairville posted...
The Dark Link rule?


Last time we asked, Dark Link was banned. He's a completely different character so he's pretty much getting banned for his connection to Link.


How long ago was that?


A few years ago now. More than 2 at least.
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Pokemon VGC2013 BC Regional - 16th place
Pokemon VGC2013 US National - 39th place
#319 | LeonhartFour | Posted 7/24/2013 10:15:30 PM | message detail
Karma Hunter posted...
Complaining about the Dark Link ban, really

what is wrong with you people


Karma Hunter being the voice of reason as usual
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#320 | xp1337 | Posted 7/24/2013 10:16:04 PM | message detail
Karma Hunter posted...
Complaining about the Dark Link ban, really

what is wrong with you people

Because it doesn't seem logical or consistent at all!
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#321 | vcharon | Posted 7/24/2013 10:16:05 PM | message detail
I only complain about it because it's a biased decision that's made with no just cause (since there isn't any). If we can have things that aren't characters and things solely intended to garner joke support... why not have Dark Link in here? I mean what's the difference?
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#322 | KamikazePotato | Posted 7/24/2013 10:17:08 PM | message detail
Because Bacon is a paragon of virtue and I salute him for his decision.
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Black Turtle did a pretty good job.
#323 | Karma Hunter | Posted 7/24/2013 10:18:06 PM | message detail
xp1337 posted...
Karma Hunter posted...
Complaining about the Dark Link ban, really

what is wrong with you people

Because it doesn't seem logical or consistent at all!


Do you realize how much more predictable this bracket is just because of Link's presence

You want to double that predictability?
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#324 | LeonhartFour | Posted 7/24/2013 10:18:29 PM | message detail
xp1337 posted...
Because it doesn't seem logical or consistent at all!


It's plenty logical. Watching Dark Link wreck 90% of the bracket because he's Dark Link isn't something people should want to see and it kinda bothers me that people do...!

Who cares if it's inconsistent. Sometimes you make exceptions to the rule for good causes.
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#325 | LeonhartFour | Posted 7/24/2013 10:19:08 PM | message detail
I mean, yes, there's a chance Dark Link would flop and be just an average dude but I'm not willing to take that risk

And neither should you
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#326 | vcharon | Posted 7/24/2013 10:19:34 PM | message detail
It bothers me that people think everyone who visits this site is an idiot and will vote for Dark Link because he looks like Link or they think he is Link, etc. I'm curious to know if people really are that stupid but you all seem to have made up your minds that they are.
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#327 | MoogleKupo141 | Posted 7/24/2013 10:19:44 PM | message detail
Yeah, Dark Link is lame

Link of the Gorons is fun and flirty.
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#328 | Karma Hunter | Posted 7/24/2013 10:19:47 PM | message detail
And then if you let Dark Link in, you just have to let in Dark Samus.

Where does this terrible scenario end
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#329 | LeonhartFour | Posted 7/24/2013 10:20:03 PM | message detail
I'm just not willing to risk the chance that they are.
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#330 | Kotetsu534 | Posted 7/24/2013 10:20:05 PM | message detail
Anti-Sora for CBX!
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#331 | vcharon | Posted 7/24/2013 10:20:26 PM | message detail
LeonhartFour posted...
I mean, yes, there's a chance Dark Link would flop and be just an average dude but I'm not willing to take that risk

And neither should you


Yet people are willing to take the risk on whatever inanimate object out there. Is losing to Dark Link more offensive than losing to Missingno. or Question Block? If I'm a fan of the character, I'd rather lose to Dark Link.
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#332 | Team Rocket Elite (Moderator) | Posted 7/24/2013 10:20:45 PM | message detail
Karma Hunter posted...
xp1337 posted...
Karma Hunter posted...
Complaining about the Dark Link ban, really

what is wrong with you people

Because it doesn't seem logical or consistent at all!


Do you realize how much more predictable this bracket is just because of Link's presence

You want to double that predictability?


If they inevitably meet we could have ended up with:
Link vs Snake vs Dark Link
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Pokemon VGC2013 BC Regional - 16th place
Pokemon VGC2013 US National - 39th place
#333 | KamikazePotato | Posted 7/24/2013 10:20:48 PM | message detail
But seriously, Bacon didn't allow Dark Link because it could potentially the contest into a joke. These contests are already notorious enough for their never-changing final result as it is. L-Block was a one-time thing that was a concerned effort. Dark Link...would just be a palette swapped version of Link beating a bunch of legitimate characters. That would rankle a lot of people, I think.
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Black Turtle did a pretty good job.
#334 | hylianknight3 | Posted 7/24/2013 10:20:58 PM | message detail
Shadow Mario, woo!

Also, Mecha Bowser!
#335 | MoogleKupo141 | Posted 7/24/2013 10:21:00 PM | message detail
then pretty soon these "dark" characters are going to want to vote and use the same bathrooms we use
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#336 | ShatteredElysium | Posted 7/24/2013 10:21:08 PM | message detail
vcharon posted...
It bothers me that people think everyone who visits this site is an idiot and will vote for Dark Link because he looks like Link or they think he is Link, etc. I'm curious to know if people really are that stupid but you all seem to have made up your minds that they are.


They're voting in droves for his damn horse right now.
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#337 | Karma Hunter | Posted 7/24/2013 10:21:31 PM | message detail
Team Rocket Elite posted...
Karma Hunter posted...
xp1337 posted...
Karma Hunter posted...
Complaining about the Dark Link ban, really

what is wrong with you people

Because it doesn't seem logical or consistent at all!


Do you realize how much more predictable this bracket is just because of Link's presence

You want to double that predictability?


If they inevitably meet we could have ended up with:
Link vs Snake vs Dark Link


...

...we all have to make sacrifices.
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#338 | LeonhartFour | Posted 7/24/2013 10:22:03 PM | message detail
vcharon posted...
Is losing to Dark Link more offensive than losing to Missingno. or Question Block?


I'll let you know if I'd have rather Squall and Tidus lost to Dark Link after he loses to Missingno.

"No" is a heavy favorite though. Dark Link isn't any less of a joke character if he were to beat Squall.
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#339 | vcharon | Posted 7/24/2013 10:22:51 PM | message detail
KamikazePotato posted...
... the contest into a joke beating a bunch of legitimate characters. That would rankle a lot of people, I think.


This has already happened and continues to happen every year since L-Block. Granted they haven't won the contest, but they are beating characters of legitimate strength regardless. I fail to see why people are more offended by Dark Link than all the other crud.
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#340 | ZinsanityCraze | Posted 7/24/2013 10:23:21 PM | message detail
vcharon posted...
It bothers me that people think everyone who visits this site is an idiot and will vote for Dark Link because he looks like Link or they think he is Link, etc. I'm curious to know if people really are that stupid but you all seem to have made up your minds that they are.


Those people who would vote for Dark Link just because he looks like Link ain't idiotic, those pushing Dark Link to be in the contests are though.
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#341 | KamikazePotato | Posted 7/24/2013 10:24:16 PM | message detail
It annoys a lot of people every time, too! But they're almost always flash-in-the-pans. The difference is that Dark Link would be especially symbolic of Link's continued dominance over these things. It would cause a different kind of outcry, but one potentially much more severe.
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Black Turtle did a pretty good job.
#342 | Karma Hunter | Posted 7/24/2013 10:24:30 PM | message detail
vcharon posted...
KamikazePotato posted...
... the contest into a joke beating a bunch of legitimate characters. That would rankle a lot of people, I think.


This has already happened and continues to happen every year since L-Block. Granted they haven't won the contest, but they are beating characters of legitimate strength regardless. I fail to see why people are more offended by Dark Link than all the other crud.


Because L Block is just a midcarder now, not a top tier Noble Nine slayer.

Letting Dark Link in is crazy because it can't be undone. You can't put the genie back into the bottle, and in the worst case scenario you've made these contests far more boring and predictable in the long run.
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#343 | xp1337 | Posted 7/24/2013 10:24:53 PM | message detail
Karma Hunter posted...
xp1337 posted...
Karma Hunter posted...
Complaining about the Dark Link ban, really

what is wrong with you people

Because it doesn't seem logical or consistent at all!


Do you realize how much more predictable this bracket is just because of Link's presence

You want to double that predictability?

Sure.

If that's the cost of making the rules consistent, so be it. I mean, that's the most negative interpretation of what I said but if you want to try and paint it that way, then fine, I'll just embrace it.

LeonhartFour posted...
It's plenty logical. Watching Dark Link wreck 90% of the bracket because he's Dark Link isn't something people should want to see and it kinda bothers me that people do...!

Who cares if it's inconsistent. Sometimes you make exceptions to the rule for good causes.

Banning a character from a popularity contest for being too popular is logical? I mean, sure, retiring Link is one thing but that's at least based on results. This is based on fear. It's probably correct, but clearly I care about the consistency.
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#344 | Karma Hunter | Posted 7/24/2013 10:25:52 PM | message detail
xp1337 posted...
Karma Hunter posted...
xp1337 posted...
Karma Hunter posted...
Complaining about the Dark Link ban, really

what is wrong with you people

Because it doesn't seem logical or consistent at all!


Do you realize how much more predictable this bracket is just because of Link's presence

You want to double that predictability?

Sure.

If that's the cost of making the rules consistent, so be it. I mean, that's the most negative interpretation of what I said but if you want to try and paint it that way, then fine, I'll just embrace it.

LeonhartFour posted...
It's plenty logical. Watching Dark Link wreck 90% of the bracket because he's Dark Link isn't something people should want to see and it kinda bothers me that people do...!

Who cares if it's inconsistent. Sometimes you make exceptions to the rule for good causes.

Banning a character from a popularity contest for being too popular is logical? I mean, sure, retiring Link is one thing but that's at least based on results. This is based on fear. It's probably correct, but clearly I care about the consistency.


And other people care about enjoyable contests.

Deal. With. It.
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#345 | KamikazePotato | Posted 7/24/2013 10:25:57 PM | message detail
Like when Weighted Companion Cube did well, the reaction was "darnit, WCC!"

If Dark Link did well the reaction would be more like "why do I even care about these stupid things anymore is if this what we're reduced to"
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Black Turtle did a pretty good job.
#346 | LeonhartFour | Posted 7/24/2013 10:27:15 PM | message detail
Personally, I'd be cool if we went back to the CJayC days where L-Block was banned, too.

But that's not happening, so I'll take what I can get.
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#347 | Team Rocket Elite (Moderator) | Posted 7/24/2013 10:28:21 PM | message detail
Karma Hunter posted...
vcharon posted...
KamikazePotato posted...
... the contest into a joke beating a bunch of legitimate characters. That would rankle a lot of people, I think.


This has already happened and continues to happen every year since L-Block. Granted they haven't won the contest, but they are beating characters of legitimate strength regardless. I fail to see why people are more offended by Dark Link than all the other crud.


Because L Block is just a midcarder now, not a top tier Noble Nine slayer.

Letting Dark Link in is crazy because it can't be undone. You can't put the genie back into the bottle, and in the worst case scenario you've made these contests far more boring and predictable in the long run.


It can easily be undone because SBAllen can reban Dark Link whenever he wants to. The current ban is already an exception to how things are normally done.
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#348 | xp1337 | Posted 7/24/2013 10:28:33 PM | message detail
Karma Hunter posted...
And other people care about enjoyable contests.

Deal. With. It.

...Deal with what? I'm clearly not going to win this! I, and I assume everyone else, knows that the Dark Link ban isn't going to be overturned. I'm arguing the principle.

And I do find it vaguely amusing that the implication here is that I don't care about enjoyable contests!

i'm sorry that there's only one way to enjoy them and i didn't meet that criteria.
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#349 | Karma Hunter | Posted 7/24/2013 10:29:33 PM | message detail | (edited)
I just don't understand why we keep having only one Link when every single Link is a completely different character, we need consistency!

I propose we split the Links

Link (Ocarina of Time)
Link (Link to the Past)
Link (Wind Waker)
Link (Twilight Princess)

And, of course, their respective Dark Link counterparts whenever possible.

You can never go wrong with more Links!
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#350 | vcharon | Posted 7/24/2013 10:29:51 PM | message detail
Yeah, well, I have to say that as a person whose favorite character in this contest is Tidus, I don't want him losing to some joke glitch. But people don't seem especially offended by Missingno. despite the fact he beat Crono and nearly beat Sephiroth. This took place directly after L-Block and people were looking for a way to conjure up that strength once again. I'm not sure I see the difference of conjuring up Link's strength with Dark Link.

Honestly my reaction of Dark Link doing well would be one of joy, since it seems to strike fear into the hearts of people that don't have any problem with all the joke characters in this. I mean I've gotten over that, but everyone is in fear of Dark Link if he's allowed in because it will "ruin the contest". Sounds familiar... sounds like what a lot of people were saying about L-Block. It's just hypocrisy.
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