GameFAQs Contests
Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1041
The
Pokemon/FFVII match wasn't even a part of the contest. It was basically
a for-fun double elimination match (and not even that, not really) in a
format that has always been single elimination. It doesn't really
matter what you think the "legit" result is; that match shouldn't be
used for stat valuation. A character's x-stat value is taken the moment
they lose and are eliminated from winning the contest. --- Yoblazer: http://8board.webs.com/ariel.jpg Watch and you'll see... SuperNiceDog own me... in the Guru! |
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This
has literally nothing to do with my feelings about Pokemon, so I'd
suggest you not let your feelings about Pokemon bother you about this
either. --- "Why must we always choose between certain death and probable death?" "I'm in an epic battle to the death, FIGURE IT OUT YOURSELF!" |
Eh no KP's right though. I could see Pokemon beating Link with the board vote. It's just that ridiculous at that point. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! |
It's
not Link/Mario because Mario/Bowser is very, very obviously stronger
than just Mario. That doesn't mean that the exact same time of SFF we've
seen every year isn't going to be there, or that there can't be any
small amount of SFF in Mario/Trainers either. --- Black Turtle did a pretty good job. |
Heck,
you could look at today and call Mario a fraud if you want to. Dude
fell 5% from the board vote against another Nintendo character.
Obviously a bandwagon going on here. --- Black Turtle did a pretty good job. |
From: KamikazePotato | #154 Well good, go ahead and tell me how much there is then so I can make a proper adjustment based on past Rivalry Rumble matches so we can make sure our stats are accurate for future Rivalry Rumbles. --- "Hold on a minute! That testimony stinks!" "Witness! You can't just say 'Hello' and expect us to get anywhere! I want you to testify!" |
From: LeonhartFour | #156 Exactly. This is why I say don't adjust at all. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! |
Maybe
we should had the strongest character of a company fighting all
others?For example the strongest Nintendo Character,the strongest Komani
character,the strongest Tri-Ace character and such.Yeah I know a lot of
fodder and Link wins but it would be fun. --- GameFaqs is NOT the place to go for relationship advice.Nobody here gets any action unless it is their right or left hand.Including me.~Dawn and Dusk~ |
From: KamikazePotato | #658 Yeah - let's use today's result and set Mario vs. Bowser and Cloud vs. Sephiroth as near equals! That makes perfect sense!! ...seriously, I cannot believe this needs to be explained. The Trainers vs. FF7 result was clearly an abnormal match with boosted Trainer strength. Boosted Trainers are not going to equal the Trainers that got stomped by Mario vs. Bowser. It's absolutely silly to argue otherwise. And it's also ridiculous to set Mario vs. Bowser and Cloud vs. Sephiroth as near equals, because clearly MvB would have beaten the FF7 duo comfortably. The most sensible thing is to find a proper adjustment value. From: -LusterSoldier- | #653They weren't going to end up with over 52% here, because that requires them to pull in over 54% over the second half of the poll. And Cloud/Sephiroth only managed one hour over 54% during the match, and that was the final hour of the night vote. Well if that's true then what do you think a proper value would be? 51.50%? Because in the morning vote prior to the "barriers", they were destroying the Trainers with 54+% updates regularly (those damn kiddies and their hatred of the Pokemonz!). They were going to rise pretty high before the rallying strength kicked in. --- www.gamefaqscontests.com www.gamefaqscontests.com/gallery |
If
you don't want to adjust because Rivalry Rumble anything is pointless,
then that's fine, but not adjusting because of preconceived notions of
the way things are 'supposed' to be is something we should have gotten
past years ago. --- Black Turtle did a pretty good job. |
I'm not adjusting the stats because I literally do not care since "adjusted stats" have no value whatsoever. You want to make your own? Go ahead, it's not that hard. --- http://i.imgur.com/CbfFb.jpg |
From: creativename | #159 So you're saying Mario vs Bowser beating Cloud vs Seph with ~56% is absolutely silly to argue? Because I can totally argue that. Based off of previous matches in the contest, even. There were a lot of signs of Mario vs Bowser being significantly stronger than Cloud vs Sephiroth in this contest-- it's not "absolutely silly" --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! |
...seriously,
I cannot believe this needs to be explained. The Trainers vs. FF7
result was clearly an abnormal match with boosted Trainer strength. Yeah, and I'm calling that BS. Trainers had the same trends in every match they've had up until that point. You're basically going "Well, FF7 can't lose to them cause they're always #2, so it was a bogus result!" and it's terrible. --- Black Turtle did a pretty good job. |
From: KamikazePotato | #163 Except he isn't. He's pretty clearly explained his rationale. --- http://www.miscupload.com/upload/452457071929141623517416.gif |
And in fact I'd call it more absolutely silly to claim that Mario isn't being SFFed at all in this match. I think Mario getting his usual dose of SFF from Link puts him down by about as much as it does today if you assume Mario beats Cloud vs Seph with ~56%. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! |
From: PartOfYourWorld | #751 Difference is that this is the first time we have a way to directly adjust the Link/Mario SFF based on a separate match. However taking that separate match at face value would clearly be wrong. As for why adjust, well x-stats are the only loose end left. Nothing else left to talk about for this piece of **** contest. I mean what else are we going to discuss in a Contest Stats and Discussion topic for a miserable failure of a contest? There's only so many "this contest sucked" posts we can manage :) --- www.gamefaqscontests.com www.gamefaqscontests.com/gallery |
His rational is OMG BANDWAGON, which is the same tripe people say every time something from Pokemon starts to win matches. --- Black Turtle did a pretty good job. |
I
don't favor no adjustments because of preconceived notions, but because
Trainers/Cloud was a bonus match between two entrants that already lost
once. Still, I gotta ask: would you still call for the Trainers to be
extrapolated through Cloud/Seph if Link was getting 60% on Mario right
now? --- Yoblazer: http://i33.tinypic.com/ml36gl_th.gif Watch and you'll see... SuperNiceDog own me... in the Guru! |
I'll tell you what. Once someone finishes the Adjusted X-Stats for the Series Contest, I'll make adjustments for this one. --- http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/8516/whatisdesiresig.gif |
From: KamikazePotato | #167 No, it isn't. His rationale is that something clearly weird started happening, trends-wise, right around the time FFVII was threatening to take over the match and run away with it, and FFVII would have won easily if that doesn't happen. Which is something we've actually seen happen multiple times in these contests. --- http://www.gifsoup.com/view/593815/frasier-and-niles-dance-o.gif |
I
really don't get the 'bogus match' thing. I seriously doubt 97% of the
voters that make up the contest care whether or not someone has already
lost. They'll vote how they would've voted in a normal match. In fact,
you can say it was a fairer match than a normal one, because that
remaining 3% has much less of an incentive to rally/bracket vote as no
points are on the line. --- Black Turtle did a pretty good job. |
From: LeonhartFour | #170 That happens every time, though. That's not a stat anomaly that's how close matches go down. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! |
From: KamikazePotato | #760 This seems to be going over your head. Some adjustment is necessary because we have two results - the final match and the third place match - which obviously do not add up. If you want unadjusted stats where Mario vs. Bowser are nearly equal to Cloud and Sephiroth, I say what's the point of those stats at all? They'd obviously be worth very little because M vs. B are significantly stronger than C vs. S. From: Lopen | #802 Yeah, and one could look at today's match and say that Mario vs. Bowser would barely beat Cloud vs. Sephiroth. Please. Let's not be brain dead. I mean please. --- www.gamefaqscontests.com www.gamefaqscontests.com/gallery |
People
will rally for no reason whatsoever. There was that completely
meaningless POTD where 4chan rallied Battletoads to victory over Final
Fantasy I. I honestly don't think that many people rally for the sake of their bracket. --- "The great GF...Bahamut." "...GF? I...? Using my powers...It is you humans...I fear..." |
From: Lopen | #172 Yes, but it doesn't usually hold for the rest of the match. --- "The great GF...Bahamut." "...GF? I...? Using my powers...It is you humans...I fear..." |
From: creativename | #173 They're already worth very little because they have no use whatsoever other than just to say we have them. --- http://i.minus.com/iH9vIGOBoyTQ2.gif |
From: creativename | #173 Yeah. Let's not be brain dead, I agree. Let's do the thing that makes sense and assume there's significant SFF today rather than some sort of statistical anomaly in Trainers vs Cloud/Seph. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! |
creativename | Posted 12/20/2011 7:39:04 PM | message detail | quote Well if that's true then what do you think a proper value would be? 51.50%? Because in the morning vote prior to the "barriers", they were destroying the Trainers with 54+% updates regularly (those damn kiddies and their hatred of the Pokemonz!). They were going to rise pretty high before the rallying strength kicked in. I figure Cloud/Sephiroth could have reached 51% by the end of the match if it wasn't for the rallying that kicked in. But I see 52% as being impossible. It's hard to rise 2% after having a 50/50 match at the half-way point. --- Luster Soldier --- ~Shield Bearer~ | ~Data Analyst~ Popular at school, but not as cool as BlAcK TuRtLe, Guru Champ! |
Not
to mention, there's so much SFF littered throughout this bracket that
even making "adjustments" on Link, Mario, Trainers, and Cloud solves
virtually nothing, considering we already know where those four stand.
Making adjustments isn't going to give us an accurate read on Snakes vs.
X/Zero whatsoever. --- http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab48/Leonhart4/Squall.jpg |
I'm fine with not adjusting stuff at all. If you had left it at 'dumb contest, don't care', then I would've been fine with it. This "Trainer/FF7 match is bogus because I say so" is just plain dumb. --- Black Turtle did a pretty good job. |
From: LeonhartFour | #175 Well, the issue with Trainers vs Cloud/Seph is Cloud/Seph retook the lead a little before Trainers would start to naturally regain strength, a bit before the ASV. I wouldn't say Trainers had any unnatural stalling for more than a few hours in a match, which is pretty typical for a close match. Like take Master Chief vs Frog in 2004-- was there any argument that Chief be adjusted over Frog? Frog had unnatural stalling for like 6 hours in that match. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! |
From: LeonhartFour | #810 Yes exactly. Things in this contest do not have static strength from round to round. See: L-Block. The Trainers that faced Mario vs. Bowser were blatantly a weaker entrant than the Trainers that faced Cloud vs. Sephiroth. It's absolutely ridiculous to even try and argue otherwise. I cannot believe that some people are trying to stubbornly cling to an indefensible notion. Like...why? I'm scratching my head here. From: Lopen | #857 ...um. But that's the same thing. What we're trying to do is estimate the SFF level. You really aren't getting this for some reason. --- www.gamefaqscontests.com www.gamefaqscontests.com/gallery |
From: KamikazePotato | #180 Oh good, because that's where I left it. And that's where Lopen's leaving it. The person arguing Trainers/Cloud is bogus is the one who wants adjustments. As I said, my personal feelings toward Pokemon have nothing to do with this. I'm just throwing down raw stats in a Word document, pasting it in this topic after this match is over, and calling it a day. --- http://i.minus.com/iH9vIGOBoyTQ2.gif |
I don't see anything wrong with Mario/Bowser putting similar numbers on Cloud/Seph. http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=4566 http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=4564 Mario/Bowser has just been a stronger entity all contest. --- Black Turtle did a pretty good job. |
Anyway
I'm arguing that no adjustments be made to the stats because it's just a
waste of time and as Leonhart said it solves basically nothing to
adjust Mario up. But yeah, Clouderoth vs Trainers wasn't that
off. That's a 51-49 at most so yeah Mario would beat Cloud by a lot if
they met up. Don't be overly clingy to past results, Cloud vs Seph just
weren't that good here. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! |
From: pjbasis | #184 Not mad at all, actually! (People are very bad at discerning emotion on message boards, but that's a discussion for another topic and time!) --- http://i43.tinypic.com/dgwh0.gif http://www.majhost.com/gallery/atukam/OHWD/snownd.gif |
From: creativename | #182 I'm saying the difference in Cloud vs Trainers is so little off from what it "should be" that you have a really good estimate of SFF just by assuming Trainers = Cloud. So what I'm saying is you arguing that Cloud should actually be at like 54% on Trainers is stupid. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! |
Plus,
as said before, the only reason people are arguing for adjusted stats
is so they can get Link, Mario, Trainers, and Cloud in the perceived
"proper" order. Getting "adjusted" stats really does nothing to give us an accurate read on 90% of the other competitors in this thing. --- "The great GF...Bahamut." "...GF? I...? Using my powers...It is you humans...I fear..." |
From: KamikazePotato | #860 We could say "dumb contest, don't care" and then proceed to not post in this topic. Again - nothing else left to do other than this, except whine about how crappy the contest was. This is the Contest Stats and Discussion topic and, gasp, I'm discussing contest stats! Oh no. Burn the witch. I'm getting very confused by the attitudes of some people here. From: KamikazePotato | #860 So you're saying the Trainers that faced MvB had the same strength as the ones that faced FF7? Really? --- www.gamefaqscontests.com www.gamefaqscontests.com/gallery |
Any
adjustments made to the Series Contest would both be less supported and
affect fewer entries than this situation. This would also be the most
time-accurate adjustment to date since it's being adjusted on by a match
a day old instead of a year old. The bonus-aspect of it deserves
skepticism, but it happened between the two most important matches of
the contest and was still meant to decide third place, so I don't think
its bonus-aspect was too persuasive to voters. Besides, there's more proof of why today's match deserves skepticism than yesterday's. --- http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/3492/eponaharr.jpg Nominate E P O N A. |
So you're saying the Trainers that faced MvB had the same strength as the ones that faced FF7? Really? You keep posting this, but you never post anything to back it up. Trainers are going to be inherently a little worst against Mario/Bowser than FF7 due to Nintendo hierarchies (a.k.a. this little term called SFF we invented, you may have heard of it). Against Cloud/Seph, all bets are off. And yes, Mario/Bowser would probably beat up Cloud/Seph pretty badly, because they have looked consistently better all contest. --- Black Turtle did a pretty good job. |
From: HaRRicH | #191 But there was virtually no cry from anyone to provide "adjusted X-Stats" for the Series Contest. Because what's the point and what do you base them on? We'll never see the contest again. And like I said, "adjusting" these last three matches only solves problems with the top four. The rest of the X-Stats will be a mess, no matter how you adjust these four. So I don't really get the point. You're not going to get much more accuracy overall by making adjustments based on these last three matches. --- http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2369/mythbattlers.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/Sensui22/1248835958206.png |
From: KamikazePotato | #905 ,...but not adjusting puts them almost EQUAL to Cloud vs. Seph. The purpose of adjusting is to make Mario vs. Bowser - and their whole half of the bracket - look stronger. From: LeonhartFour | #859 Yes but in those other instances we have no basis for adjustment. Here we are fortunate to have another match. --- www.gamefaqscontests.com www.gamefaqscontests.com/gallery |
Uh,
using Red vs. Cloud as the basis for adjustment gives Mario/Bowser like
55% on Cloud, while throwing out today's match. That's what we've been
talking about. --- Black Turtle did a pretty good job. |
So
basically what that last post says to me is that creativename is the
one that "doesn't get it" despite constantly mudslinging other people
for not getting it. We're not saying that leaving Mario at his result here is the thing that shouldn't be adjusted. We're saying that Cloud vs Trainers shouldn't be adjusted and to make Mario accurate you adjust him based on his numbers vs Trainers through Cloud. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! |
From: creativename | #194 We are. But literally everybody knows how they feel about those four entrants now, so I don't see the point in "proper adjustments" for the sake of making the X-Stats look prettier. --- http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/8718/leonflowchart.png |
I
mean, is anyone going to be confused about who they pick in
Mario/Bowser vs. Cloud/Sephiroth in the event that (heaven forbid) we
have another Rivalry Rumble if I don't make adjustments based on
Trainers/Cloud? Of course not. --- http://i43.tinypic.com/dgwh0.gif http://www.majhost.com/gallery/atukam/OHWD/snownd.gif |
From: KamikazePotato | #952 And they blatantly would not beat then with 55.64%. The match would be closer than that because MvB would not need rallying to crush Cloud vs. Sephiroth in a non-close match. If you are trying to argue that MvB beat Cloud vs. Sephiroth with 55.64%, then you are simply being stubborn, nothing more. --- www.gamefaqscontests.com www.gamefaqscontests.com/gallery |
Well
obviously this is for the use of generations to come. What will they
do when they haven't seen this contest and its next iteration comes up?
They'll be pulling their hair out! Obviously --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! |
