GameFAQs Contests
Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1031
KamikazePotato posted... Who cares about iconic stuff. Mario/Bowser is sorta good for basically starting the entire industry and being around forever, but aside from that, whatever. The best rivalry in the bracket is Ramza/Delita. Phoenix/Edgey is it for me. Or bosses. --- XIII_rocks, the cream of XIII fanboyism. |
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From: KamikazePotato | #098 The best foils in the bracket are Ramza/Delita, more like. Replaying FFT has only further cemented in my mind that those guys are not rivals whatsoever. But I don't feel like arguing that point at the moment. --- "Stay with me until the end. Please." "Not until the end. Always." |
KamikazePotato posted... The best foils in the bracket is Ramza/Delita. agree edited for correctness --- ------ --------- |
I
don't buy this being purely rivalry factor. I definitely think whatever
shift the halving of votals caused favors Nintendo. Link's performance
on Amaterasu was completely ridiculous based on Link vs Luigi and Luigi
vs Amaterasu last contest. Skyward Sword doesn't boost him like 10%.
Mario equaled Link's performance on Sonic. Arthas and Illidan
>>> Thrall and Link did 5% better on them than he did on
Thrall. Donkey Kong had his best contest ever. I like this explanation, but wow. Still weird that Kirby with a better anchor underperformed against Sonic, same with Luigi / Wa against old square. Fox / Wolf did pretty much what was expected of them. I can see the privilege being granted only to super-nostalgic Nintendo, but then Donkey Kong overperforming? WTF. --- "Ovelia ... SPOILERS IN THE KEYWORDS WOOPS" - Vormav |
I really wouldn't consider it a ridiculous amount of dialogue choices. It really tapers off post date scene. Anyways, what are the chances someone wins outside the guru? --- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/pjbasis.png |
From: pjbasis | #105 I would. There's a reason people were outraged by Advent Children Cloud. Everyone was like "Who the heck is this Cloud? This isn't the Cloud I played as in FFVII!" --- "The great GF...Bahamut." "...GF? I...? Using my powers...It is you humans...I fear..." |
Yeah because the Cloud that I played as had development and stuff that was beyond my choice! --- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/pjbasis.png |
From: pjbasis | #107 I never said Cloud was a blank slate. Crono isn't a blank slate either, no matter how much red sox wants to convince you he is. --- "I can set you free, mate." "My freedom was forfeit long ago!" |
I'm
just tired of people hyping how great Red vs Blue is when that's not
really what the game was about at all. I don't even care about Ryu/Ken that
much but it does "deserve" to do well. As far as actual quality it
wins out but that's just because Red vs Blue is pretty whatever. Dante/Vergil vs Mega Man X/Zero would be my finals if I made a favorites bracket. But yeah I'm just saying hivemind until I get proof to the contrary. Link winning every year certainly supports it! --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! |
I would say Cloud is much less of a blank slate than any silent protagonist though. At the very least Cloud has pretty distinct mannerisms and ways of speaking (when the translation holds up). --- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/pjbasis.png |
,Actually,
a large, large, large amount of Cloud's appeal is the fact that he's
given a ridiculous amount of dialogue choices that you get to make for
him, so in that sense, you get to make Cloud who you want him to be in a
large part. And it's extremely easy to pretend to be Cloud or Mega Man if you can pretend to be a guy who collects fictional monsters in balls or plays time-traveling instruments or a guy who gets killed by a parasite "They don't talk" doesn't make them better models for pretending. Ultimately, Cloud's character was defined pretty clearly by the storywriters at Square. That's traditional character development, and it's what people keep saying Link has none of. And it's true, but IMO the real genius of video games is that it allows an alternative form of character development through role-playing. It's easy enough to suspend disbelief of magic, meteors, etc. so those things don't really matter here. You cannot ignore the character given by a work however- to suspend disbelief there would ruin the work. Silent protagonists give you much wider discretion in dreaming up the character yourself. And that's why you can attach to a silent protagonist- because you can make them reflective of you, only without whatever features of you that you dislike. --- 2002 Link, 2003 Cloud, 2004 Link, 2005 Link, 2006 Link, 2008 Link, 2010 Link, 2011 Cloud. Link 6, Cloud 2 |
From: pjbasis | #110 I never said he wasn't. But either way, this whole "YOU CAN BE CRONO BUT YOU CAN'T BE CLOUD BECAUSE CLOUD TALKS!" argument is silly anyway. --- http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab48/Leonhart4/Squall.jpg |
I'd say that Crono is a blank slate. It just seems he isn't when really the story is driven by the other characters. --- ------ --------- |
Crono
has a pretty well defined personality through his gestures, even if
that personality is, for the most part, stereotypical RPG hero. --- http://img.imgcake.com/leonpngpe.png http://img.imgcake.com/squalloweenpngem.png |
I've
never imagined myself as the protagonist. I guess a lot of people that
like silent protagonists do? I wonder how many of the people that like
them name them after themselves. That'd be an interesting poll. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! |
Crono isn't a blank slate either, no matter how much red sox wants to convince you he is. I don't think Crono is a blank state, he's my favorite character! Giving the player discretion doesn't mean giving them a blank slate.....that would be the same as giving them nothing at all. This is all a matter of degrees. --- 2002 Link, 2003 Cloud, 2004 Link, 2005 Link, 2006 Link, 2008 Link, 2010 Link, 2011 Cloud. Link 6, Cloud 2 |
From Extha At least he didn't have the contest victory riding on this. None of you will ever know my pain. I had a contest riding on Link beating Cloud in 2004. That feeling is pretty close, right? --- Chex Warrior (Chex Quest) for CB2011 |
From: Lopen | #115 Man, I've never been able to do this. But I would still "pretend" to be Cloud or Mega Man or Mario or what have you. --- http://www.gifsoup.com/view/593815/frasier-and-niles-dance-o.gif |
I always name Link and the Pokemon Trainer after myself. Link is more of a tradition though. It made sense back in the day but he's becoming far more expressive than he used to be. They even have Link as the default name now! Also Serge and Crono on the earlier playthrough, but not anymore. --- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/pjbasis.png |
Naming
characters after myself doesn't work for me. I want to pretend I am
them, not that they are me. I don't need video games to be myself after
all. --- 2002 Link, 2003 Cloud, 2004 Link, 2005 Link, 2006 Link, 2008 Link, 2010 Link, 2011 Cloud. Link 6, Cloud 2 |
Lopen posted... I'm just tired of people hyping how great Red vs Blue is when that's not really what the game was about at all. Welp, I don't know about you but I made sure my Pokemon in RB were as powerful as possible so I could beat Blue. He is the constant threat of the game. It was a rivalry between me and Blue more than Red and Blue, but then when I'm playing rby I AM red. --- XIII_rocks, the cream of XIII fanboyism. |
It's
the final battle that makes the rivalry. If you didn't know about it,
the moment when you find out Blue has already become champion is one of
the biggest holy **** moments in gaming. --- Demyx is better than Axel. http://www.last.fm/user/crazydom |
I know R/B/Y repeatedly tries to drill it into your head that YOU GUYS ARE RIVALS, but meh. I understand the confusion a lot of people have, because if you've never played the game or didn't grow up with it, it's difficult to appreciate how important this rivalry is and understand why it resonates with so many voters. This is just my opinion, which I'm sure doesn't hold up for everybody, but I think I share the same mindset as a lot of the other Pokemon voters: Red is a silent protagonist. He's not a strong character with personality or a good motive. But that's not the point. Red is the in game personification of the player. You are Red, Red is you. He's just a kid with a blank slate personality and no name. You can call him whatever you want. Some people called him Red, others Ash, and others put their own name in there. No matter what you called him, he was you, his triumphs were your triumphs, his failures were your failures. The team you built for him was YOUR team. You really have to appreciate Nintendo's genius here, by making the character so bare bones, and putting it into this type of game, they created a bond between player and protagonist that is extremely strong. Blue is your rival. But he's not just some faceless no one. Sure, some people called him Blue, others called him Gary, others "d***head" or "poop face" or other naughty words. More importantly, some people named them after real life friends (or enemies). Just like you are Red, Blue can be a stand in for the real life rival of yourself. For a lot of kids growing up, Pokemon suddenly became a big thing and everyone started playing at more or less the same time. This was an era where handheld multiplayer was difficult, which made the rival important. If you were playing through the game at the same time as a friend, you'd be talking about the game together and comparing notes. More importantly, he'd become your rival. If Red was the player, Blue was the in game personification of a person, (or people) the player knew playing the game. For me, I never saw them as Red and Blue. I saw Red as myself, and Blue as one of my friends who was playing the game. i changed the names accordingly. Red vs Blue became Chris vs Peter. Even on subsequent playthroughs, even though i changed the names to Red vs Blue, or Ash vs Gary, Blue would always have ties to someone who I actually knew. If not a friend, then an enemy. It didn't even have to be somebody specific, but everyone growing up knows a "Blue." This is why the Red/Blue rivalry is so strong. People do not see it as Red vs Blue. They see it as Themselves vs Their Friend or Themselves vs Their enemy. Or if you like, THEMSELVES VS THEIR RIVAL. Red and Blue are so much more than two faceless characters to a lot of people who grew up playing the game. It's the whole Player 1/Player 2 relationship. When I see Red vs Blue, I see myself vs my 8 year old rival, racing through the game to see who could finish first, or who could build the strongest team. . --- Tofa7 - LoZ-LoD | Hardcore "Thank you, thank you, no applause necessary, just send money..." |
Some notes: - Red/Blue is only going to be strong together, not individually. The feelings and memories that the two of them as a group bring back give them their power. They are important because they represent the rivalry. Separate them, and they do become somewhat faceless characters. - A team of Pokemon 1/Pokemon 2 would therefore never be as strong as Red/Blue. Individual Pokemon are undoubtedly more popular, but you aren't the Pokemon. You are Red. Pokemon do not bring the same type of nostalgia or rivalry factor. (No, not even Charizard/Blastoise) - Like I said, this is just how i feel about the subject, but as a 90's kid, I think I've got a good read on the situation and can tell how voters are perceiving this. Obviously mileage may vary from voter to voter, but for the majority, I really think Red vs Blue is seen as something more than Faceless Trainer 1/Faceless Trainer 2. Sorry for the long post(s) --- Tofa7 - LoZ-LoD | Hardcore "Thank you, thank you, no applause necessary, just send money..." |
Also, Red was clearly not me when he didn't accept the offer to join Team Rocket. --- "Link has spoken for years. And music is his language" -YoBlazer |
From: XIII_rocks | #121 I definitely wasn't training my team to beat him in particular, no. I don't know, maybe if you played the game at 6 or something the game was actually difficult but yeah-- my team kinda just naturally killed Gary and the gym leaders in the original. Later games got a bit tougher for some battles (Red in Soul Silver is particularly nasty) to the point where the options were grind or abuse cheap tricks, but RBY was pretty easy IIRC. Point of the game was to find cool Pokemon and assemble the coolest team possible, not really beat anyone-- cept maybe my friends. There's some accomplishment there cause humans actually play intelligently. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! |
AlecTrevelyan006 posted... Also, Red was clearly not me when he didn't accept the offer to join Team Rocket. ...good point --- XIII_rocks, the cream of XIII fanboyism. |
Also Tofu you can expect your X-MoC in the mail after that post. --- XIII_rocks, the cream of XIII fanboyism. |
And yeah Red would actually be a cool character if he joined Team Rocket. Needs to be a Pokemon game where you can actually do that. --- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love! |
Lopen posted... From: XIII_rocks | #121 Welp, I don't know about you but I made sure my Pokemon in RB were as powerful as possible so I could beat Blue. He is the constant threat of the game. It was a rivalry between me and Blue more than Red and Blue, but then when I'm playing rby I AM red. I definitely wasn't training my team to beat him in particular, no. I don't know, maybe if you played the game at 6 or something the game was actually difficult but yeah-- my team kinda just naturally killed Gary and the gym leaders in the original. Later games got a bit tougher for some battles (Red in Soul Silver is particularly nasty) to the point where the options were grind or abuse cheap tricks, but RBY was pretty easy IIRC. Point of the game was to find cool Pokemon and assemble the coolest team possible, not really beat anyone-- cept maybe my friends. There's some accomplishment there cause humans actually play intelligently. I actually found it really difficult to beat RBY when I was a kid. Didn't know all the type advantages by heart, only used Charizard, stuff like that. It took me a long time to win without using the Rare Candy glitch. --- XIII_rocks, the cream of XIII fanboyism. |
The
final battle against Red in GSC was that character's greatest moment.
Put him in Team Rocket, Brawl, Mortal Kombat, whatever. Nothing matters
after that moment. It's like the memories of Pokemon end right there for
most of the fanbase, too. Explains the fodderific lack of strength of
everything released after GSC. --- Yoblazer: http://i44.tinypic.com/5nw45i.jpg Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your world! |
In
1999 the economy was booming, internet was coming to every home, and
you could become a multimillionaire overnight holding an IPO for your
internet company that had no profits now and no plans to ever make
profits at any time in the future. I felt like red sox posts were building toward this with the 90s talk. I see the time has arrived. --- "When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it." |
I felt like red sox posts were building toward this with the 90s talk. I see the time has arrived. Hi-five? --- 2002 Link, 2003 Cloud, 2004 Link, 2005 Link, 2006 Link, 2008 Link, 2010 Link, 2011 Cloud. Link 6, Cloud 2 |
Yep. Honestly I find GSC to be a mediocre game until the final two boss fights. They drag it up to a respectable level single-handedly. HGSS is amazing simply because it realizes almost all of GSC's woefully unfulfilled potential. --- XIII_rocks, the cream of XIII fanboyism. |
Well a mediocre Pokemon game, anyway. Still pretty awesome. --- XIII_rocks, the cream of XIII fanboyism. |
The
thing about the Red v Blue rivalry is that it is not so much about the
in-game characters of Red and Blue trying to one up each other
throughout the quest... It's more about the rivalry that happened in real life between your friends/siblings about which game you chose to buy back in late 1998-2000ish. 1999 Example at Toys R US: Your brother: "OH COOL POKEMON! Ima chose red cuz that's my favorite color!" You: "You chose red version? Well I'm gonna chose blue version, I can't pick the same one as u... I'll beat u with Blastoise whahahahaha!" It is this cherished memory that is so strong in the hearts of the 18-24 yrs olds that vote in these polls and make Red v Blue such a strong, nostalgia-laden rivalry. The ingame actions of the game characters of Red and blue are secondary to this other factor. --- MMM... cookies |
"This
is why the Red/Blue rivalry is so strong. People do not see it as Red
vs Blue. They see it as Themselves vs Their Friend or Themselves vs
Their enemy. Or if you like, THEMSELVES VS THEIR RIVAL." Ooops Tofa7 made the point already! GJ Tofa! I have Red v Blue in the semis so im happy. --- MMM... cookies |
Mario had better deal with the Poke-menace. --- Praise the Black Turtle, Game of the Decade Guru Champ. (Well, I never promised creativity, did I?!) |
Damn, I type a 4500 character post only to be ninja'd by like 5 different people. Well, at least it backs up what I'm saying. --- Tofa7 - LoZ-LoD | Hardcore "Thank you, thank you, no applause necessary, just send money..." |
From: SuperNiceDog | Posted: 12/7/2011 6:02:52 PM | #137 No problem. My money's on you to take out the guru contest, since you've got Red/Blue in semi's, as well as Alucard > Frog, and the best tiebreaker of the 2 others with the same as you. So congrats, although I'm kind of annoyed because it would be mine for the taking if Frog could beat Alucard >_< --- Tofa7 - LoZ-LoD | Hardcore "Thank you, thank you, no applause necessary, just send money..." |
Mario had better deal with the Poke-menace. It is pretty likely. Despite the hypothesis about Red / Blue being a projecting / real-life rivalry, the fact remains Mario / Bowser and Link / Ganon are also looking boosted this contest and they don't have that same property as Red / Blue. And we know how the Nintendo hierarchy goes on GameFAQs. --- "Ovelia ... SPOILERS IN THE KEYWORDS WOOPS" - Vormav |
The Show convinced me to take Frog over Alucard, so I'm pretty annoyed about that. --- PSN - Aevio "I'm on a Goomba." - BlackMageJawa |
As of now, this match has higher votals then Mario/Sonic. --- Black Turtle did a pretty good job. |
"My
money's on you to take out the guru contest, since you've got Red/Blue
in semi's, as well as Alucard > Frog, and the best tiebreaker of the 2
others with the same as you. So congrats, although I'm kind of annoyed
because it would be mine for the taking if Frog could beat Alucard
>_<"- Tofa7 Thanks Tofa7! Don't give up hope on Frog/Magus though... Alucard didn't do that great against Phoenix...I thought he'd do better than 56.67% --- MMM... cookies |
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster] |
From: Kotetsu534 | Posted: 12/7/2011 6:03:23 PM | #138 Mario/Bowser are individually stronger and more iconic, and are arguably the first popular video game rivalry, and the SFF will fall their way. The trainers would have to be pushing for at least a doubling here before Mario had anything to worry about IMO. --- Tofa7 - LoZ-LoD | Hardcore "Thank you, thank you, no applause necessary, just send money..." |
Pokemon
still have one more match to really get the hype a-rollin. The Bowser
match probably made quite a difference for Charizard's final strength in
2010. Samus can do the same thing. I agree that 70% on Sonic is
obviously more impressive than 62% on Ryu/Ken, but the Trainers still
have time. If I were a Poke-maniac wishing for the Trainers to make it to Link, I'd be hoping hard they draw Samus and not The Bosses. They'd give Samus a worse beatdown, and seeing the #4-6 strongest character on the site humiliated like that will be much more symbolic than beating Metal Gear's B-team. --- Yoblazer: http://i33.tinypic.com/ml36gl_th.gif Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your world! |
red sox 777 posted... I felt like red sox posts were building toward this with the 90s talk. I see the time has arrived. Hi-five? America #1 (Games in the 00s still better, though!) --- "When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it." |
I
know it's been mentioned before but I think it's game strength that's
producing these wonky results. People have generally considered
individual strength and rivalry factor here, but for example today's
result seems in excess, even if voters feel Red / Blue have a better
rivalry. Mario overperforms on Sonic - Mario games smash Sonic games. Sonic overperforms on Kirby - Kirby has made what, one Game of the... contest? Super Star in 2009? DK overperforms - DK games are stronger than Assassin's Creed, Mortal Kombat Trainers overperform on Fighters - RBY smashes SF anything. Terra / Kefka overperforms on Samus - FF6 > Metroid anything. Link beasting - Zelda games I haven't played either Portal but I suspect Frog / Magus have a pretty superior rivalry over Chell / GlaDOS, in addition to individual strength. But two Portals, one being this year, might swing some votes from Chrono Trigger? --- "Ovelia ... SPOILERS IN THE KEYWORDS WOOPS" - Vormav |
I haven't played either Portal but I suspect Frog / Magus have a pretty superior rivalry over Chell / GlaDOS Nah. --- Black Turtle did a pretty good job. |
