GameFAQs Contests

Well, I can't say I'm anything less than very happy about these results. It means Brawl most certainly has what it takes to stop MM, if it comes to that.

Cheers! :)

Why are people even considering MM > FFX?

Am I the only one who thinks that FFX should be the overwhelming favourite there?
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I do hope you're right, Turtle. But don't underestimate the drones.

Drones? What?

If anything, I'm counting on the FF "drones" here.

Aside from the fact that this whole "drone" crap is moronic. The only drones I've seen are the Melee fanboys who are dead set that their opinion of the Smash series is right.
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FFX is indeed the overwhelming favorite, this is not really disputable. I think a few people have been hyping WHAT IF WE GOT AN ALL ZELDA FINAL and others have taken that a bit too seriously. Or maybe people don't think it SFFed Wind Waker somehow.

MM has a chance at FFX if you still think GSC is strong.
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.

From: red sox 777 | #156
if you still think GSC is strong.

Strong enough to lose respectably to WW!
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Around here, I'm the father, the son, and the Holy ****ing Spirit all rolled into one - Red Crow

That's not what the stats say!

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DFF

Plus, FFX has looked really bad this year. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't beat either GSC or WW by the amount that MM did, so FFX needs MM to have SFF'd those games.
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.

Eh, just a disparaging name to call fans of a series you consider overrated.

I'm also a MGS drone!

Series/specific game, etc.

From: red sox 777 | #156
MM has a chance at FFX if you still think GSC is strong.

That must be why I don't think it has a chance. MM will lose comfortably to MGS, and I for sure would take FFX > MGS
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[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Majora's Mask would probably beat MGS1 now. Not that I mind. Here are MGS1's x-stat values on the other games in that series from last year:

MGS4 - 53.75%
MGS3 - 54.74%
MGS2 - 62.82%

I doubt that MGS1 vs. MGS3 would budge much.
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Currently Playing - Zelda: Majora's Mask, Smash Bros. Melee
Next Games Up - Resident Evil 4, Okami, StarCraft

I guess I should post the matchpics!

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The 3DS will be $200 or I'm closing my account - Ngamer64

From: transience | #057
the Brawl/Melee thing is kinda fascinating because it just doesn't seem that different to me. the amount of venom Melee fans spew at Brawl is kind of amazing to me.

Truth, especially a round after the discussion was most relevant. Essay-time:

I've grown up with Nintendo nearly my entire gaming life, signed the petition for SSB to originally come to America, still vividly remember SSB's commercial, played the ever-loving hell out of SSB until I could dominate everyone I played with Ness, got SSBM the day it launched and loved playing it as Sheik whether it was by myself or with friends, bragged to everyone about SSBB after it was announced, visited the Dojo every day, spent the only prize-money I ever won from GameFAQs on buying SSBB, sneaked away from a party to sneak into a local SSBB-launch tournament at EB Games while waiting for SSBB to be mailed my way (Sweet Sixteen out of 128 people), loved playing as Snake both by myself and with friends, and can't wait for the next SSB-game.

I prefer SSBB, and if you're still going to say I'm not a real SSB-fan or a real gamer or anything of the sort simply because I prefer Brawl to Melee, f*** you too. You're no good for gamers who don't wish to start wars over their preferences. GameFAQs's population just decided they prefer SSBB by a narrow respectable margin AFTER IGN's population decided they prefer SSBB to SSBM and SSB combined, yet the Brawl-flaming continues.

At this point, if you want to get into what ruined the SSB-series, I would rather point the finger at wave-dashing than tripping. I recall that causing a bigger fuss than most things the Dojo mentioned, and at least tripping happened to everyone; wave-dashing affected only the very "elite" of SSBM-fans and anybody those people faced, and it never seemed like that SSB-sect forgave SSBB since then.


There's little doubt I would put both games into my top ten games of all-time, and I still don't think they're so different. You're welcome to disagree, but if you're going to have an aneurysm about it, then I can't respect your opinion either.
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http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/3492/eponaharr.jpg
Epona: C^ C< C>, C^ C< C>

http://www.gamefaqs.com/images/gotd/gotd-124-1.jpg

Winner.
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Love Epona.

No one cares about the loss of wavedashing.

The problem with Brawl is that the more you play it, the less fun it gets. Once you learn the gameplay mechanics of Brawl, it becomes less fun. In Brawl is is insanely easy to shield, dodge, and camp. It's hard to combo. Almost everyone can recover easily. It's a very defense-oriented game. Melee was an offense-oriented game. Brawl's greater amount of characters, stages, and music can never change that it's just not as fun to play.

And they ruined Captain Falcon, which is inexcusable.

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DFF

Calling BS on nobody caring about no wave-dashing when the news first hit. It's not a central issue anymore, but that was the first stone I recall being thrown and the same people who know and use wave-dashing are often the people most upset with everything else SSBB did.

I get there are flaws in SSBB and there are things I prefer from each game; for example, the thing I miss the most in SSBB was the sense of speed SSBM had. At the same time, I like that big/heavy/slow characters are still worth a damn in SSBB since they nearly all sucked in SSBM, so I don't mind the loss of speed so much in that regard either. It's just a matter of pros and cons, and I prefer SSBB after it all.

I don't want to get into this argument though -- never wanted to, really, other than to say I'm no less a gamer because dicks with louder opinions say so.
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Nominate EPONA from LoZ:OoT, LoZ:MM, and LoZ:TP!
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/3492/eponaharr.jpg

http://www.gamefaqs.com/images/gotd/gotd-124-1.jpg

Here is the best pic of that bunch by a mile.

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There are no foreign lands. It is the traveler only who is foreign.

From: KamikazePotato | #003

And they ruined Captain Falcon, which is inexcusable.

Who cares about Captain Falcon? They completely screwed Jigglypuff!

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"I submitted brackets on all [224] of my accounts so they would get the 10 free Karma for beating SBAllen's score." - Luster Soldier

I'm still mad SSBB screwed Sheik over, yet I'm still on the SSBB-train...so, you know, just play other characters. =)
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http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/3492/eponaharr.jpg
E-p-o-n-a

Brawl superior because of Snake tbqh

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The whole object of travel is not to set foot on foreign land; it is at last to set foot on one's own country as a foreign land.

People erroneously say we (Melee tournament people) only care about exploits, which is not true. If you think the games are similar and prefer Brawl because you're a casual guy, cool beans. I've never had a problem with these people. My issue is when people know how different the games are and prefer the latter, or presume they know more about how the games are built than those of us who helped document the frame data. Just knock it off.

Hell, I could even argue Brawl is the worse game for the fun-only crowd. A great deal of those items and stages are broken beyond belief. You should have been there when people tried analyzing the Fan on smashboards.
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Ulti's wife appreciated somebody who didn't moan their own name the whole time. -Cyclo
MOST people shout out 'oh god' when they're having sex. -SantaRPG

From: KamikazePotato | #168
No one cares about the loss of wavedashing.

The problem with Brawl is that the more you play it, the less fun it gets. Once you learn the gameplay mechanics of Brawl, it becomes less fun. In Brawl is is insanely easy to shield, dodge, and camp. It's hard to combo. Almost everyone can recover easily. It's a very defense-oriented game. Melee was an offense-oriented game. Brawl's greater amount of characters, stages, and music can never change that it's just not as fun to play.

And they ruined Captain Falcon, which is inexcusable.

And Melee ruined Kirby, which is even more inexcusable.
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From: HaRRicH | #172
I'm still mad SSBB screwed Sheik over, yet I'm still on the SSBB-train...so, you know, just play other characters. =)

Sure. I pick Meta Knight under any rule set you want.
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`·.,¸¸,.·´¯`·.,¸¸,.·´¯`·.,¸¸,.~*ST*~.,¸¸,.·´¯`·.,¸¸,.·´¯`·.,¸¸,.·
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I'm not claiming anyone's not a real Smash fan, or that real Smash fans can't like Brawl. I do claim that is it highly highly likely that if you took the Melee/Brawl votes, and tossed all votes from people who don't have a Smash game in their top 10 (which would include me, by the way), that Melee would have won.

As far as determining what makes someone a big fan of Smash goes, the simplest criterion is, what percentage of games do you prefer Smash to? It's also fairly obvious here that tourney players will typically like Smash more going by this criterion. Not always, I'm sure there are tourney players who like a lot of other games more than Smash, and non-tourney players who love Smash a lot, but on the average? Yeah.

Agreed that speed is the biggest difference between the two games, speed and then the ability to connect with combos. Combos in Smash are fluid things since they're assembled on the fly rather than preprogrammed into the game, and are a big part of what makes Melee good. Melee's offensive play feels a lot more interesting to me than Brawl's defensive play. I'm not sure offensive and defensive are the right words per se since there is intrinsically no reason why offense should be better than defense. Perhaps we should say that Brawl is much more forgiving of mistakes.

For example, Chess and Go are very very unforgiving of mistakes at high levels of play. A single major mistake early in the game between two grandmasters or pro Go players is usually sufficient to basically guarantee the result. Now that I think about it, perhaps that's not the right way to describe Melee and Brawl either. Melee is much less forgiving on a local level- mess up and you get comboed for a lot of damage and a good chance at death- but on a global level, because you can do the same thing to your opponent, it can also be easier to stage a comeback. Down 3 stock to 1? You're just 3 great combos away from turning around the match in Melee. I guess I'll just call Melee more fluid for now and leave it at that.
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.

Sakurai intentionally made Brawl more accessible because he thought that Melee was too difficult for casual players. To even things up, he simply tried to change the balance of the game by targeting it less specifically toward people well-versed in video games:

However, he has one particularly deep regret: the game's accessibility level. "I had created Smash Bros. to be my response to how hardcore-exclusive the fighting game genre had become over the years," Sakurai said. "But why did I target it so squarely toward people well-versed in videogames, then? That's why I tried to aim for more of a happy medium with Brawl's play balance. There are three Smash Bros. games out now, but even if I ever had a chance at another one, I doubt we'll ever see one that's as geared toward hardcore gamers as Melee was. Melee fans who played deep into the game without any problems might have trouble understanding this, but Melee was just too difficult."

It makes sense that people who loved Melee for competitive matches would be disappointed by this shift.

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"Luxe, calme et volupte." - Charles Baudelaire, The Invitation to the Voyage

From: UltimaterializerX | #174
People erroneously say we (Melee tournament people) only care about exploits, which is not true.

Wasn't that hack Brawl+ (or whatever it's called) made by SSBM-people who fit under the tournament-tent? This is in jest, so don't worry about a serious response here.

A great deal of those items and stages are broken beyond belief.

I do think the Pokeballs were the worst of the series so far, and from SSB4 onward there's not an excuse to keep us from editing which Pokemon/Assist Trophies do and don't come out in matches. Screen-blinding items are the worst, forever and always.

Sure. I pick Meta Knight under any rule set you want.

Can't wait for the "THEY NERFED META KNIGHT" complaints in the next game...!

From: red sox 777 | #177
Agreed that speed is the biggest difference between the two games, speed and then the ability to connect with combos.

I do miss being Sheik to land some big combos, but I'm not against fighting for a few hits at a time either. I never liked losing a life without having much control from 0% to 100% -- even if I wasn't on that end of the combo too often (though I'm not pro or anything) -- so this change of pace is a welcome alternative.
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http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/3492/eponaharr.jpg

I think Sakurai said it best, video games is a business, why try to please less than 10% on the fanbase when you can please over 90% of it?

There's a game for hardcore tournament players, it's called Melee go play that. Until then it isn't hard to see why Brawl is the more liked game.
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BOP Results: http://charmander6000.webs.com/GotD%20BOP.xls
GotD Bracket: 204/256 Today's Matches: HL2 & SSBB

http://www.gamefaqs.com/images/gotd/gotd-124-1.jpg

That is an awesome image.

Melee Fox was more broken than Brawl Metaknight, fwiw.
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From: charmander6000 | #175
I think Sakurai said it best, video games is a business, why try to please less than 10% on the fanbase when you can please over 90% of it?

There's a game for hardcore tournament players, it's called Melee go play that. Until then it isn't hard to see why Brawl is the more liked game.

That's not a smart way of looking at things whatsoever. Melee pleased both the casuals and the hardcore. Brawl did not. If Brawl was the same game with better core mechanics, it would be more popular with everyone.

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DFF.

Nintendo's never been about catering to the fanbase. They've always decided what they think their fans should want, created it, and tried to sell it to their fans. It's worked pretty well for them.......and it makes sense, surprisingly. It allows for innovation. If you left it up to the fans we'd have gotten about 10 rehashes of OOT with slight differences each time by now.
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.

I'm smelling an FFX/MGS3 semifinal.

It should be the final, but hey, it'll do...!
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Support Morrigan Aensland (Darkstalkers) for Character Battle IX!
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/9302/banner5morrigan2.jpg

That's not a smart way of looking at things whatsoever. Melee pleased both the casuals and the hardcore. Brawl did not. If Brawl was the same game with better core mechanics, it would be more popular with everyone.

Brawl pleases the casuals by more than Melee did and when it came down to choosing between the two pleasing that casuals was better for Nintendo and for the larger population.

If Nintendo could please everyone by more than Melee did they probably would have done it.
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BOP Results: http://charmander6000.webs.com/GotD%20BOP.xls
GotD Bracket: 204/256 Today's Matches: HL2 & SSBB

Brawl pleases the casuals more by having more characters, stages, and music.

You really think that the casuals care about the core game mechanics being neutered? All Nintendo did there was alienate the hardcore people. If Brawl was the same game with Melee's core mechanics, it would never have struggled against Melee.

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DFF.

Match CXXIII: (1) Final Fantasy X vs. (1) Resident Evil 4

Last Round

Final Fantasy X – 63.07%
Final Fantasy IX – 36.93%

Resident Evil 4 – 55.46%
Portal – 44.54%

Analysis

Ever since the contest started and as Final Fantasy X kept underperforming people have been hyping this match and now more than ever. I guess you could argue that Resident Evil 4 is the only game left where the entire board would agree that it’s Game of the Decade material. Last round Final Fantasy X was able to pick up some SFF against its little brother while Resident Evil 4 struggled to perform decently against Portal though 2 million free copies was probably the reason.

Whether or not people argued this match we all knew that the match would be close. Last year Resident Evil 4 showed us that it was one of the strongest games of the last decade. The main problem is that Final Fantasy X was one of the three major favourites for a reason. I feel that when people think of Final Fantasy X’s performance they remember its performance at the start of polls and forget that the game does a nice job of recovering and it usually comes back to around our expectations.

I fully expect Resident Evil 4 to take the lead at the beginning while Final Fantasy X stalls within the first hour and as the night continues the game will gain steam just like what Sephiroth did against Missingno. I said before the contest that I would’ve taken Twilight Princess over Final Fantasy X had they met up which means I should consider Resident Evil 4, but with the performances of some of Resident Evil 4’s opponents last year I’m not exactly sure if the game is as strong as its close match against Twilight Princess.

charmander6000’s Bracket: Final Fantasy X > Resident Evil 4

charmander6000’s Prediction: Final Fantasy X wins, 53.02% - 46.98%

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BOP Results: http://charmander6000.webs.com/GotD%20BOP.xls
GotD Bracket: 204/256 Today's Matches: HL2 & SSBB

Well, just because Nintendo did it doesn't mean it's the best. They are an extremely effective company though.....they had the highest employee productivity in the world among major companies in 2007. They averaged $1.6 million per employee that year (more than Goldman Sach's $1.2 mil/employee, and without paying their employees anywhere near as much as GS's obscene $600k average).
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.

You really think that the casuals care about the core game mechanics being neutered? All Nintendo did there was alienate the hardcore people. If Brawl was the same game with Melee's core mechanics, it would never have struggled against Melee.

Go read Sakurai's interview, your so called neutered game mechanics was needed in order to make the game better for the casuals. Adding a bunch of stuff is cool and everything, but like to the hardcore players the game still comes down to the fighting.
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BOP Results: http://charmander6000.webs.com/GotD%20BOP.xls
GotD Bracket: 204/256 Today's Matches: HL2 & SSBB

But I agree with KP, the casuals never cared that Melee was "hard."
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.

I'm just explaining it how Nintendo/any company sees it.
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BOP Results: http://charmander6000.webs.com/GotD%20BOP.xls
GotD Bracket: 204/256 Today's Matches: HL2 & SSBB

Casuals had a blast with Melee. There's a reason Brawl was hyped up so much. The change was completely unwarranted, and it's completely ineffectual in that someone skilled at Brawl will beat you down just as easily as someone skilled at Melee. They'll just have less fun doing it.

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DFF.

I mean, Melee didn't become the big success it was by alienating casuals- it was THE party game for 6 years. It's natural for Brawl to outsell Melee- it's on a system with a much larger userbase, the industry has grown over the last decade, and it reaped the fruits of the Smash brand built up by SSB64 and Melee. I don't think changing the difficulty level of the game makes any significant difference to sales. Although, it should be noted that the vast majority of the people who hate Brawl still bought it because they are huge Melee fans and therefore huge Smash fans. Whether or not they hate Brawl now, they still bought the game at some point.
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.

I don't think anyone is arguing it hurt sales. It took months for people to realize that Brawl wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

But in terms of quality? Yeah.

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DFF.

Was the change unneeded? Maybe. Would people have whined that the game didn't change had Nintendo released something like Brawl+? You bet.

Any way it doesn't change that Brawl is the more popular game and would probably win everywhere except for hardcore sites.
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BOP Results: http://charmander6000.webs.com/GotD%20BOP.xls
GotD Bracket: 204/256 Today's Matches: HL2 & SSBB

Just curious, what other games have taken such a hit for trying to become more casual-friendly than its predecessor? The only one I can think of off-hand is Yoshi's Story, which was still fun in its own right but ultimately deserves the hell it caught.
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T H E S T A B L E
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/3492/eponaharr.jpg

Would people have whined that the game didn't change had Nintendo released something like Brawl+? You bet.

No, they wouldn't. That's not how it works with fighting games. Melee's gameplay was beloved - a few tweaks, and it would have been good to go. Then you add in Brawl's other extra stuff, and I have no idea why you think people would have had a problem with it.

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DFF.

From: HaRRicH | #192
Just curious, what other games have taken such a hit for trying to become more casual-friendly than its predecessor? The only one I can think of off-hand is Yoshi's Story, which was still fun in its own right but ultimately deserves the hell it caught.

Wind Waker at first, thanks to the 'kiddy' graphics.

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DFF.

People were expecting Melee with more characters and stages, and they would have been happy with it. This isn't like Zelda or Final Fantasy where people expect new gameplay.

As far as game design goes, I think Melee was terrific. A good competitive game should have simple rules/inputs that produce complex gameplay. All of Melee's inputs are simple, except perhaps the wavedash. Any "advanced technique" in Melee is not a preset advanced technique but just some basic techniques used together or with some special timing. It's entirely organic!
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.