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Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 983

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WhiteLens | Posted 12/19/2010 12:32:15 PM | message detail
And I hope SBAllen has that too so I'll actually be able to stay ahead of him in bracket score. >_>
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UltimaterializerX | Posted 12/19/2010 12:38:27 PM | message detail

From: Lightning Strikes | #048
Uh so

I don't know if someone else said this in the last topic, but creativename and Ulti, Brawl has a MyGames rating of 8.9 to Melee's 9.0 with over twice as many votes. Yep. I don't give the reviews much credit because not only is the sample size smaller, you also need to take in mind the type of people who would write reviews-it's not the same sample.

Also, I consider myself a Smash Bros. fan. I have never been to a tournament(though, just to correct you on one point Ulti, there are quite a lot in my area) but I play the games often, have gotten a great deal of play time out of them, and enjoy both games immensely. They're not among my favourite games ever but they're really fun with tons of content for single and multiplayer, great presentation, and of course, lots of fan service. I can't explain the inner workings of each game in detail, and you'd probably kick my ass at it. But that doesn't invalidate my or anyone else's. You see it doesn't matter how "hardcore" you are, if you enjoy something you enjoy it.

Sometimes I think we all forget why we play games in the first place.

Because it's fun.

And this, of course, is why people like Brawl.

Because they find it to be fun.

And when it comes to Smash Bros., I am a relatively casual fan, but I'm still a fan. And that's true for literally millions more.


Hey we still bros.
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Assassin_Thane | Posted 12/19/2010 12:38:41 PM | message detail
I like how TP just randomely cut Brawl there. 52-53% is still pretty close, at least there will be 4-5 games by the end with similar strength.

Also i wouldn't count Majoras mask out quite yet...
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BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 12/19/2010 12:45:25 PM | message detail
ExThaNemesis
Posted 12/19/2010 2:43:49 PM
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filter
#491

Brawl fans are literally hilarious.

We spit out all the reasons why the game is flawed, why we prefer Melee, why Brawl is technically inferior in almost every way, INCLUDING DIRECT QUOTES FROM THE DEVELOPER OF BOTH GAMES, and all the Brawl fans can say is "WELL MORE PEOPLE AGREE WITH ME."

How utterly pathetic.


As opposed to Melee fans, when I spit out reasons why it is flawed and Brawl is a much more fun game in almost every way, and all the Melee fans can say is "LOL U JUST SUCK AT MELEE"
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The Mana Sword | Posted 12/19/2010 12:48:22 PM | message detail
Man, who wouldn't want to be in Equilibrium.
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This is the kind of **** that allowed the Bhopal incident to happen. 5,000 dead Indians. Want that on your damn conscience, Square apologists?
TheKoolAidShoto | Posted 12/19/2010 12:50:40 PM | message detail
If we could do gun katas, I can live with that.
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"You brought your *****, to the waffle hut?"
transience | Posted 12/19/2010 12:52:28 PM | message detail
"slightest amount of bitterness" doesn't apply to you, ExTha. you take bitterness to the extreme.

the Brawl/Melee thing is kinda fascinating because it just doesn't seem that different to me. the amount of venom Melee fans spew at Brawl is kind of amazing to me. and this isn't me being uncaring -- Brawl's probably in my top 25 and Melee's a fine game too!

I'd say fans of lower-tier RPGs are the worst, if you wanted to judge. anti-fans are probably the worst of the worst if you want to go that route, but that's generally what lower-tier RPG fans are: dismissive of the mainstream.
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xyzzy
The Mana Sword | Posted 12/19/2010 12:54:06 PM | message detail
I'd say fans of lower-tier RPGs are the worst

back off old man
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This is the kind of **** that allowed the Bhopal incident to happen. 5,000 dead Indians. Want that on your damn conscience, Square apologists?
transience | Posted 12/19/2010 12:56:02 PM | message detail
you've been calling me old man since I was your age

so back off, old man
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xyzzy
TheKoolAidShoto | Posted 12/19/2010 12:57:59 PM | message detail
Cripple Fight! $50 bucks on the old guy with the cane!
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"You brought your *****, to the waffle hut?"
Assassin_Thane | Posted 12/19/2010 12:59:12 PM | message detail

From: BlAcK TuRtLe | #054
ExThaNemesis
Posted 12/19/2010 2:43:49 PM
message detail
filter
#491

Brawl fans are literally hilarious.

We spit out all the reasons why the game is flawed, why we prefer Melee, why Brawl is technically inferior in almost every way, INCLUDING DIRECT QUOTES FROM THE DEVELOPER OF BOTH GAMES, and all the Brawl fans can say is "WELL MORE PEOPLE AGREE WITH ME."

How utterly pathetic.


As opposed to Melee fans, when I spit out reasons why it is flawed and Brawl is a much more fun game in almost every way, and all the Melee fans can say is "LOL U JUST SUCK AT MELEE"


That's because you do. It's quite simple really. Even Sakura himself said Melee was the "sharpest" which basically means it got the best battle mechanics and was made for core players in mind. This is undeniable factual evidence. Denying it just makes you look foolsih.
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red sox 777 | Posted 12/19/2010 1:03:02 PM | message detail
the Brawl/Melee thing is kinda fascinating because it just doesn't seem that different to me. the amount of venom Melee fans spew at Brawl is kind of amazing to me. and this isn't me being uncaring -- Brawl's probably in my top 25 and Melee's a fine game too!

I see it this way. Casual fans basically see Melee and Brawl as the same- and most of them slightly favor Brawl judging by the poll results we got. So, perhaps they rate Brawl a 7.1 and Melee a 7.0. Serious Smash fans on the other hand, rate Melee at 9.5 and Brawl around 2.0. But a vote counts the same no matter how much you prefer one game to the other, so Brawl won, and that naturally makes Melee fans angry. Our game lost because of people who don't even like Smash much who barely prefer Brawl having their votes count the same.
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.
red sox 777 | Posted 12/19/2010 1:06:28 PM | message detail
And that makes me sound like more of a Melee fan than I actually am, or would be but for the contests, anyway. I honestly don't even find Melee that fun.....it wouldn't be close to my top games list. I'd easily prefer FFX to Melee if it were not for these contests.
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.
LeonhartFour | Posted 12/19/2010 1:06:29 PM | message detail
Whoa, Brawl just spiked big time.
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BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 12/19/2010 1:08:28 PM | message detail

From: red sox 777 | #062
the Brawl/Melee thing is kinda fascinating because it just doesn't seem that different to me. the amount of venom Melee fans spew at Brawl is kind of amazing to me. and this isn't me being uncaring -- Brawl's probably in my top 25 and Melee's a fine game too!

I see it this way. Casual fans basically see Melee and Brawl as the same- and most of them slightly favor Brawl judging by the poll results we got. So, perhaps they rate Brawl a 7.1 and Melee a 7.0. Serious Smash fans on the other hand, rate Melee at 9.5 and Brawl around 2.0. But a vote counts the same no matter how much you prefer one game to the other, so Brawl won, and that naturally makes Melee fans angry. Our game lost because of people who don't even like Smash much who barely prefer Brawl having their votes count the same.


I like Smash a lot and I prefer Brawl. Is it so hard to understand people don't find boring "tournament mode" smash more exciting than a good party game?
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transience | Posted 12/19/2010 1:09:00 PM | message detail
am I alone in thinking TP could make a match of this at night? Brawl has a one-of-a-kind day vote, better than KH2 which is better than TP.

I prefer Brawl by more than a little bit - I like the characters more and the stages more and the music more. to me, GameFAQs's bias towards old nostalgic favourites is the only reason Melee is close there. all I'm saying is that Melee is also a fine game and the venom just seems misguided. it'd be like Mega Man 2 fans calling out Mega Man 3.
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xyzzy
MoogleKupo141 | Posted 12/19/2010 1:09:25 PM | message detail
I see it this way. Casual fans basically see Melee and Brawl as the same- and most of them slightly favor Brawl judging by the poll results we got. So, perhaps they rate Brawl a 7.1 and Melee a 7.0. Serious Smash fans on the other hand, rate Melee at 9.5 and Brawl around 2.0. But a vote counts the same no matter how much you prefer one game to the other, so Brawl won, and that naturally makes Melee fans angry. Our game lost because of people who don't even like Smash much who barely prefer Brawl having their votes count the same.


you also see it wrong. Being a "casual" Smash fan in the "I don't go to tournaments and do wavethings" sense does not equate to being a "casual" Smash fan in the "I only kinda like this" sense. Brawl is like my seventh favorite game, and before Brawl rendered it pretty much obsolete to me, Melee filled that spot. I love the games, I just don't love serious competitive hardcore playing. I don't think I'm an isolated incident, either.
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For your health.
At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza
Assassin_Thane | Posted 12/19/2010 1:09:33 PM | message detail

From: transience | #057
"slightest amount of bitterness" doesn't apply to you, ExTha. you take bitterness to the extreme.

the Brawl/Melee thing is kinda fascinating because it just doesn't seem that different to me. the amount of venom Melee fans spew at Brawl is kind of amazing to me. and this isn't me being uncaring -- Brawl's probably in my top 25 and Melee's a fine game too!

I'd say fans of lower-tier RPGs are the worst, if you wanted to judge. anti-fans are probably the worst of the worst if you want to go that route, but that's generally what lower-tier RPG fans are: dismissive of the mainstream.


Imagine they changed FIFA/Madden by making it slower, have you falling over with the ball and remove a lot of the skills. But most people don't complain because it's easier to learn, has more and better teams, more features like replay + pitch builder/online and better graphics.
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The Mana Sword | Posted 12/19/2010 1:09:57 PM | message detail
Mega Man 3 does kinda pale in comparison to Mega Man 2!
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This is the kind of **** that allowed the Bhopal incident to happen. 5,000 dead Indians. Want that on your damn conscience, Square apologists?
The Mana Sword | Posted 12/19/2010 1:10:36 PM | message detail
have you falling over with the ball

Sounds like real soccer!
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This is the kind of **** that allowed the Bhopal incident to happen. 5,000 dead Indians. Want that on your damn conscience, Square apologists?
Lightning Strikes | Posted 12/19/2010 1:11:07 PM | message detail
Yes Ulti

Anyway

From: TheKoolAidShoto | #050
Dear lord, LS.

Let it goooooo


It's not not letting it go. It's more a critical case of http://dan.boondoggies.com/slowpoke.jpg

I get sidetracked with other things sometimes!
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Something something something
^Poorly disguised anti-caps sig
MoogleKupo141 | Posted 12/19/2010 1:11:49 PM | message detail
btw, random curiousity here:

Assassin_Thane, do you consider SSB a fighting game?
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For your health.
At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza
Assassin_Thane | Posted 12/19/2010 1:11:59 PM | message detail

From: red sox 777 | #062
the Brawl/Melee thing is kinda fascinating because it just doesn't seem that different to me. the amount of venom Melee fans spew at Brawl is kind of amazing to me. and this isn't me being uncaring -- Brawl's probably in my top 25 and Melee's a fine game too!

I see it this way. Casual fans basically see Melee and Brawl as the same- and most of them slightly favor Brawl judging by the poll results we got. So, perhaps they rate Brawl a 7.1 and Melee a 7.0. Serious Smash fans on the other hand, rate Melee at 9.5 and Brawl around 2.0. But a vote counts the same no matter how much you prefer one game to the other, so Brawl won, and that naturally makes Melee fans angry. Our game lost because of people who don't even like Smash much who barely prefer Brawl having their votes count the same.


You make a good point but i would say casuals prefer Brawl WAY more. It just has far more content than Melee and more recognisable,likable characters.
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red sox 777 | Posted 12/19/2010 1:12:30 PM | message detail
Well obviously there are big Smash fans who like Brawl, they're just a small minority of Smash fans. I do question how much you can like Smash if you only see it as a party game though. Could a casual party game be your favorite game? Could you love it the way I love, say, Chrono Trigger or Ocarina of Time? I guess it's possible, but it'll be very rare.

The other thing I don't understand is why people think any Smash game played in a party-style way (4-ways instead of 1v1s) is fun. I've always thought it was boring, since SSB64. But I've accepted a long time ago that I'm in a small minority of people with that opinion.
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.
LeonhartFour | Posted 12/19/2010 1:14:25 PM | message detail

From: MoogleKupo141 | #067
I see it this way. Casual fans basically see Melee and Brawl as the same- and most of them slightly favor Brawl judging by the poll results we got. So, perhaps they rate Brawl a 7.1 and Melee a 7.0. Serious Smash fans on the other hand, rate Melee at 9.5 and Brawl around 2.0. But a vote counts the same no matter how much you prefer one game to the other, so Brawl won, and that naturally makes Melee fans angry. Our game lost because of people who don't even like Smash much who barely prefer Brawl having their votes count the same.


you also see it wrong. Being a "casual" Smash fan in the "I don't go to tournaments and do wavethings" sense does not equate to being a "casual" Smash fan in the "I only kinda like this" sense. Brawl is like my seventh favorite game, and before Brawl rendered it pretty much obsolete to me, Melee filled that spot. I love the games, I just don't love serious competitive hardcore playing. I don't think I'm an isolated incident, either.


No way, if you prefer Brawl, you clearly don't care about the series at all.

NOT LIKE REAL (MELEE) FANS DO anyway
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pjbasis | Posted 12/19/2010 1:15:04 PM | message detail
I played n64 smash religiously until Melee came out, and then played that for the 7 years until Brawl's release.

Now I play Brawl a lot. I play the other two now and then, but I tend to just stick to the newest.

I like em all for different reasons though.
pjbasis | Posted 12/19/2010 1:15:51 PM | message detail

From: The Mana Sword | #309
Mega Man 3 does kinda pale in comparison to Mega Man 2!


NUH UH

I would even say the soundtrack edges 2's out!
LeonhartFour | Posted 12/19/2010 1:16:03 PM | message detail

From: red sox 777 | #074
I do question how much you can like Smash if you only see it as a party game though. Could a casual party game be your favorite game? Could you love it the way I love, say, Chrono Trigger or Ocarina of Time? I guess it's possible, but it'll be very rare.


...Do you really think the people pushing Brawl to victory are hardcore, 1-on-1, Final Destination-only players?

Heck, do you think it'd be the case if it were Melee here instead of Brawl?
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The Mana Sword | Posted 12/19/2010 1:16:17 PM | message detail
surely you jest
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This is the kind of **** that allowed the Bhopal incident to happen. 5,000 dead Indians. Want that on your damn conscience, Square apologists?
red sox 777 | Posted 12/19/2010 1:16:49 PM | message detail
you also see it wrong. Being a "casual" Smash fan in the "I don't go to tournaments and do wavethings" sense does not equate to being a "casual" Smash fan in the "I only kinda like this" sense. Brawl is like my seventh favorite game, and before Brawl rendered it pretty much obsolete to me, Melee filled that spot. I love the games, I just don't love serious competitive hardcore playing. I don't think I'm an isolated incident, either.

My guess would be that people like you are fairly rare. You never hear people say Brawl is their favorite game, and rather few for Melee too. Of our elite games, OOT, FFVII, CT, LTTP, RBY, FFX, MGS- all these have many people who claim them as their #1 favorite. Not so much for Smash or the classic Mario games.
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.
MoogleKupo141 | Posted 12/19/2010 1:17:08 PM | message detail
Well obviously there are big Smash fans who like Brawl, they're just a small minority of Smash fans.

The small minority of Smash fans are the Ulti-types. I think your perception of the situation is really misguided here.

I do question how much you can like Smash if you only see it as a party game though. Could a casual party game be your favorite game? Could you love it the way I love, say, Chrono Trigger or Ocarina of Time? I guess it's possible, but it'll be very rare.

I enjoy games that are fun. I find few games to be as much fun as the Super Smash Bros. series. Add in a ton of stuff that invokes nostalgia for other games I love, and yeah. It's really easy for Brawl to be one of my favorite games.

The other thing I don't understand is why people think any Smash game played in a party-style way (4-ways instead of 1v1s) is fun.

And I can't understand how anyone has fun with no items, 1 v 1, on like six levels. So yeah.
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For your health.
At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza
charmander6000 | Posted 12/19/2010 1:17:43 PM | message detail
Red sox pretty much hit the nail on the head. The thing is those hardcore Smash fans make up less than 1% of the total fans and them trying to act like over half the fans think like that is quite funny.
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BOP Results: http://charmander6000.webs.com/GotD%20BOP.xls
GotD Bracket: 204/256 Today's Matches: HL2 & SSBB
transience | Posted 12/19/2010 1:18:31 PM | message detail
SF3 and SF4 fans are like Brawl and Melee fans. SF3 is a faster, more fluid game to the more campy and measured SF4 but average fans like SF4 a lot more.

Mega Man 3 has sliding worst ever
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xyzzy
red sox 777 | Posted 12/19/2010 1:18:45 PM | message detail
...Do you really think the people pushing Brawl to victory are hardcore, 1-on-1, Final Destination-only players?

Heck, do you think it'd be the case if it were Melee here instead of Brawl?


You mean against Twilight Princess today? Of course not. Most of the Smash fanbase is definitely casual, for both games (more for Brawl than Melee). Not sure how that's relevant......
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.
The Mana Sword | Posted 12/19/2010 1:19:22 PM | message detail
(4-ways instead of 1v1s)

I think I see the problem here.

This is clearly a CS&D issue!
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This is the kind of **** that allowed the Bhopal incident to happen. 5,000 dead Indians. Want that on your damn conscience, Square apologists?
LeonhartFour | Posted 12/19/2010 1:19:56 PM | message detail

From: red sox 777 | #084
...Do you really think the people pushing Brawl to victory are hardcore, 1-on-1, Final Destination-only players?

Heck, do you think it'd be the case if it were Melee here instead of Brawl?


You mean against Twilight Princess today? Of course not. Most of the Smash fanbase is definitely casual, for both games (more for Brawl than Melee). Not sure how that's relevant......


You're asking how people could consider Smash Bros. one of their favorite games if it's just a party game.

But there have to be quite a few people who rank the game way up there if this thing's going to win this whole contest and is a potential top 5 game. And most of those fans are casual, I'd imagine.
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TheKoolAidShoto | Posted 12/19/2010 1:21:17 PM | message detail

From: pjbasis | #077
I would even say the soundtrack edges 2's out!


MM2's Wily's Castle Theme > MM3's soundtrack > MM2's Soundtrack
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Safer Sephiroth 777 | Posted 12/19/2010 1:21:19 PM | message detail
So Nintendofaqs prevail eh?Why I am not suprised?
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MoogleKupo141 | Posted 12/19/2010 1:21:23 PM | message detail
My guess would be that people like you are fairly rare. You never hear people say Brawl is their favorite game, and rather few for Melee too. Of our elite games, OOT, FFVII, CT, LTTP, RBY, FFX, MGS- all these have many people who claim them as their #1 favorite. Not so much for Smash or the classic Mario games.


I don't pay enough attention to people randomly proclaiming their favorite games to really be able to speak to this, but I would think the fact that Melee and Brawl both were seeded quite well in this contest would indicate that a large amount of people (here, at least) consider them among their favorite games. Whether that's as number 1 or number 3 or whatever, I don't really see how that matters.
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For your health.
At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza
charmander6000 | Posted 12/19/2010 1:22:08 PM | message detail
Melee was (and still is) a very casual game. Those games can have decent strength too.
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GotD Bracket: 204/256 Today's Matches: HL2 & SSBB
MoogleKupo141 | Posted 12/19/2010 1:22:49 PM | message detail
So Nintendofaqs prevail eh?Why I am not suprised?


literally 100% of games in today's poll are Nintendo games


what the **** is your point. You're not surprised because there was literally no possibility that a non-Nintendo game could win this match.
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For your health.
At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza
pjbasis | Posted 12/19/2010 1:23:04 PM | message detail
The Wily level 1-2 is the only reason I'd consider putting MM2's soundtrack above too.

That might be the most correct way of thinking it.

But damn Wily level 3-4 in MM3 kicks ass.
Assassin_Thane | Posted 12/19/2010 1:23:04 PM | message detail

From: MoogleKupo141 | #072
btw, random curiousity here:

Assassin_Thane, do you consider SSB a fighting game?


It's a 2D 3D party fighter because at the end of the day that's what Nintendo marketed it as. But behind all the flash is some real underrated substance. I played melee enough and was really good at it(could do all advance moves easily and mimicked world record target/home run contests records) I wasn't like those experts but i was pretty damn good.and after the novelty of a "Party" game wore off people DID play it as a fighter, but it was more of a multplyer brawler. You can't compare it to 1 on 1 fighters exactly, but it has it's strengths.

Brawl on the other hand just doesn't have the depth, i played brawl for a month after it came out and never touched it again. I will give Brawl credit, but because the core mechanic is different it's hard for me to give it points where it really matters. Brawl DID have more challening AI, even if they cheat alot. And it did have an amazing theme song and stage builder feature. That's about it. They dumbed down so many of my mains from Melee it's not even funny.
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Lightning Strikes | Posted 12/19/2010 1:23:14 PM | message detail
A party game being voted one of the best games ever shouldn't be especially surprising. Look how many top games lists have the likes of Goldeneye. And more recently, sutff like CoD4 is seen very highly as a game. There is a place for the more casual multiplayer experiences like Smash Bros. simply because a lot of people see them as fun.
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Something something something
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red sox 777 | Posted 12/19/2010 1:23:30 PM | message detail
That shows it has a lot of casual support. Lack of people who consider a game their #1 isn't a crushing impediment in almost all cases- Smash doesn't need to be someone's favorite game to get a vote, just liked better than the other game. Against the really high end games (FFVII and OOT), it'll hurt, but then, no games can hope to match those two in number of people who consider them their #1 on this site.
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.
BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 12/19/2010 1:24:52 PM | message detail

From: TheKoolAidShoto | #087
MM2's Wily's Castle Theme > MM3's soundtrack > MM2's Soundtrack


MM2 has the best 8-bit soundtrack by far. Crash Man, Wily 2, Quick Man off the top of my head.
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transience | Posted 12/19/2010 1:24:54 PM | message detail
curious -

let's say Bacon runs a FF7/OOT/Brawl poll. what wins?
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xyzzy
charmander6000 | Posted 12/19/2010 1:26:17 PM | message detail
let's say Bacon runs a FF7/OOT/Brawl poll. what wins?

FFVII
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GotD Bracket: 204/256 Today's Matches: HL2 & SSBB
UltimaterializerX | Posted 12/19/2010 1:27:08 PM | message detail

From: BlAcK TuRtLe | #065
Is it so hard to understand people don't find boring "tournament mode" smash more exciting than a good party game?


Oh not at all, and I don't mind people thinking that way. It's just Sakurai could have done both and willingly chose one.
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red sox 777 | Posted 12/19/2010 1:27:10 PM | message detail
FF7 42%
OOT 40%
SSBB 18%

Unless of course the "drones" take over, in which case:

OOT 43%
FFVII 42%
SSBB 15%
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.