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GameFAQs Contests

Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 966

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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 12:44:36 PM | message detail

From: red sox 777 | #300
but many don't want to say it because we don't like how Zelda beats Final Fantasy in every generation, every matchup, every year, etc.


Pfffft, FFVIII > MM

Eat it.

Although technically FFX's generational rival is Wind Waker, not TP.

TP's is FFXII, which is easily the most one-sided FF/Zelda generational matchup.
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red sox 777 | Posted 12/5/2010 12:45:28 PM | message detail
Yeah, these two statements don't really mesh. You don't get to be the 3rd most popular entry in a series without getting plenty of love. I mean, yeah, you don't have a lot of open gushing like you get with OoT or LTTP, but...

When that series is the Legend of Zelda, you can. I'm not really sure what happens in LTTP/TP. I think LTTP wins like 55-45 normally, but I could see it either end around there or LTTP laying down a substantial amount of SFF. Not sure which scenario is more likely.

OOT/TP would be very ugly- would not be the least bit surprised to see OOT well above 80%.
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__Smurf__ | Posted 12/5/2010 12:46:59 PM | message detail
"It's quite different from Brawl really- Brawl is HATED, and people genuinely think it's a horrible game."

Yes but the same "hate" exists for Melee, the series in general seems to be something that people either obsess over religiously or just don't care for in the slightest bit. I know Brawl had a load of vocal haters but most of those were still people pumping 50+ hours into the thing, following the dojo each day prior to its release and only disliking it in the shadow of melee. I don't think those people think its a horrible game, more that they think its a lesser game to melee and want to overexaggerate this to the internet and have everyone believe its the worst game ever conceived.
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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 12:47:11 PM | message detail
I think LTTP's age is slowly starting to catch up with it. It's not going to be the #2 Zelda forever. We've already seen age start to catch up with Mario 3, possibly Mario World as well, since it seems like Mario 64 might be the strongest Mario game now. Twilight Princess will eventually surpass LTTP as the #2 Zelda game within the next handful of years, I think.

Either way, I doubt LTTP would put the SFF hammer down on it.
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Advokaiser | Posted 12/5/2010 12:52:36 PM | message detail
I know Brawl had a load of vocal haters but most of those were still people pumping 50+ hours into the thing, following the dojo each day prior to its release and only disliking it in the shadow of melee. I don't think those people think its a horrible game, more that they think its a lesser game to melee and want to overexaggerate this to the internet and have everyone believe its the worst game ever conceived.

Agreed. It's like Brawl haters are trying to destroy the game by claiming Melee is a god and Brawl is an abomination to Melee.

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red sox 777 | Posted 12/5/2010 12:53:06 PM | message detail
Yeah, it is kind of contradictory to spend hours playing a game that you say is one of the worst games ever made. But if they secretly think it's okay and only voice their hatred for it because it's inferior to Melee, they'll probably still vote against Brawl in most contest polls. Perceived liking of a game is more important than actual subconscious liking of a game for contest purposes.

But there are many Melee fans who hate Brawl and who don't play it either. I've played probably less than 5 hours of Brawl in my life, and personal anecdotes at least suggest other Melee fans similarly don't play Brawl unless they're at a party where it's the only thing available. You don't have to be really good at Melee, or go to tournaments or anything, to notice how inferior Brawl is or find its pace/mechanics unfun.
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__Smurf__ | Posted 12/5/2010 12:55:34 PM | message detail
You don't get to be the 3rd most popular entry in a series without getting plenty of love. I mean, yeah, you don't have a lot of open gushing like you get with OoT or LTTP, but...

Possibly to do with hype, in the days before internet access where there wasn't a constant stream of screenshots, videos, reactions and discussion its was difficult to learn more about a new release than what the magazines could fit in their 2 or 3 page coverage you'd see once a month. Hype was there but in low amounts, you didn't know a "huge" deal about the game until you finally played so it was hard to have a great deal of pre-conceived ideas and expectations. If a game was good it was always going to be a positive afterthought for you.
These days things are hyped insanely, we'd literally been watching TP videos years before it was released. We knew it was billed as the next OOT, we knew several of the dungeon settings, we knew about the wolf form and twilight realm, several of the bosses and equipment. It lacked something when it came out, the bite and sparkle ignorance in the 90's would have given. And people literally expected this to be the greatest game of all time (or close to it) before they'd even played it. It's near impossible to come away with anything but disappointment and negativity from a game when a pre-release is like that.

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PartOfYourWorld | Posted 12/5/2010 12:59:05 PM | message detail

From: LeonhartFour | #304
Twilight Princess will eventually surpass LTTP as the #2 Zelda game within the next handful of years, I think.


I would probably bet a few thousand dollars that this will never happen, at least not while we're here analyzing contests like this. A match between these two right now would be ugly. LttP is a legit freak, one that might still be the front-runner as the #3 game on this site. It doesn't merely challenge FFX - it beats it down, and it doesn't bow to things like Brawl.

While it certainly looks like Mario 3 has lost its #1 Mario status, that is a different case entirely. World and 64 are also hugely popular and respected, carried systems, and are old as hell. TP is way too recent to be received with that same kind of warmth and nostalgia, and who's to say if history will even be kind to it? We already know it's been very kind to the 18-year-old LttP.
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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 12:59:59 PM | message detail

From: PartOfYourWorld | #308
LttP is a legit freak, one that might still be the front-runner as the #3 game on this site. It doesn't merely challenge FFX - it beats it down


I'm not sure what in the world from the last contest gave you this impression.

Because I didn't get that impression.
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TheCodeisBosco | Posted 12/5/2010 1:01:23 PM | message detail
Sorry for the late response!

As for this match: it looks to me like the Majora/Pokemon G/S/C saga is going to turn out like Jill/Ocelot.

I don't get this comparison?


In 2007, Ocelot managed to edge out Jill... but in 2008, Ocelot lost the rematch despite the recent release of MGS4. Though G/S/C didn't defeat Majora in the last games contest, it almost certainly would have if R/B/Y wasn't in the poll; but in spite of that, I have a feeling Majora is en route to a reasonably safe 52-48 win here, even though HeartGold/SoulSilver came out earlier this year. It's kind of baffling, and like Jill > Ocelot, there isn't a whole lot of reason for it; but it does look like the likely outcome at this point.

I really hope I'm wrong, though. G/S/C is exactly how a sequel should be done.

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PartOfYourWorld | Posted 12/5/2010 1:02:16 PM | message detail
Oh come on, it still threw down a beating on FFVI despite Super Metroid and ANOTHER ZELDA in the poll. I'd love to see FFX aim for a similar performance against Chrono Cross, FFIX, and a weaker Zelda game like Majora's Mask.
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__Smurf__ | Posted 12/5/2010 1:03:21 PM | message detail
If you believe age affects games popularity like that then surely with LttP still being in the top 5 on the site and being 19 years old you believe LttP in its heyday > OoT in its heyday?
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transcience | Posted 12/5/2010 1:04:53 PM | message detail
I'm not convinced that LTTP beats TP this very second. Mario 64 over TP seems similarly dangerous. TP is the underdog but it isn't going to get doubled.
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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 1:05:12 PM | message detail

From: PartOfYourWorld | #311
Oh come on, it still threw down a beating on FFVI despite Super Metroid and ANOTHER ZELDA in the poll. I'd love to see FFX aim for a similar performance against Chrono Cross, FFIX, and a weaker Zelda game like Majora's Mask.


Man, FFVI sucks now. I don't even think it'd beat FFVIII anymore. The game gave up 45% to Link's Awakening.

And LTTP got lucky not to lose to Mario 64. That's not a "MAN THIS GAME WOULD OWN FFX!" performance since I think FFX could give Mario 64 a fight, and Chrono Trigger as well (although I know this will certainly raise the ire of red sox).

Plus, it's not like LTTP and FFX didn't have their own little showdown last year where LTTP didn't win by that much!

(Okay, it was during FFVII/OoT so it's not even a remotely fair gauge, but that's irrelevant! Although FFVII/OoT didn't really shift that much from 1-on-1 from 4-ways in terms of percentage).
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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 1:12:30 PM | message detail
Plus, if you want to use Mario 64 as a gauge between LTTP and CT (a game I'm positive everyone but red sox thinks is weaker than it was in 2004):

CT either gets 48% (based on round 2) or 48.67% (based on round 3).

So yeah, I'm almost positive LTTP has dropped at least a little bit itself since 2004.

But then again, I have zero rooting interest in the Zelda series, so that's probably why I think TP can possibly beat LTTP and WW would beat MM, so what do I know?
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Kotetsu534 | Posted 12/5/2010 1:16:42 PM | message detail
I wonder when we'll get a full games contest next. Not till at least this time next year, and probably well past that, I should think.

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PartOfYourWorld | Posted 12/5/2010 1:18:23 PM | message detail

From: LeonhartFour | #314
Man, FFVI sucks now. I don't even think it'd beat FFVIII anymore. The game gave up 45% to Link's Awakening.


I thought VIII>VI even before that contest began, but because I thought VIII was a very legit game. I also thought Link's Awakening was very legit and was very surprised to learn it was an underdog against Mega Man and Sonic. Tranny might remember that. I still think I'm right in both areas. FFVIII did well for itself and Link's Awakening would have probably beaten Super Metroid if big bad LttP wasn't there.

Anyway, FFX would not challenge Mario 64. Not in a night match, a 24-hour, or anything. It wouldn't be close. I'd take out sig bets for a year on this and apologize to everyone if I'm wrong. Mario 64 simply had 2009 performances that were too monstrous. An easy win over CT in what was essentially a 1v1 match (I'm even ignoring the other Mario game in that poll, even though it can easily be used as more fodder) is too much for FFX to handle.
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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 1:19:21 PM | message detail

From: PartOfYourWorld | #317
An easy win over CT in what was essentially a 1v1 match (I'm even ignoring the other Mario game in that poll, even though it can easily be used as more fodder) is too much for FFX to handle.


Less than 52% on CT is too much for FFX to handle, huh.

That's good to know.
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PartOfYourWorld | Posted 12/5/2010 1:20:47 PM | message detail

From: LeonhartFour | #315
But then again, I have zero rooting interest in the Zelda series, so that's probably why I think TP can possibly beat LTTP and WW would beat MM, so what do I know?


Heh, I'm glad you introduced the possibility of bias so I wouldn't have to. TP is the only Zelda game you like, and you think it can likely or potentially surpass LttP in a handful of years. Kiiiiiinda doubting you'd have the same opinion if you had never played TP.
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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 1:22:15 PM | message detail

From: PartOfYourWorld | #319
TP is the only Zelda game you like, and you think it can likely or potentially surpass LttP in a handful of years. Kiiiiiinda doubting you'd have the same opinion if you had never played TP.


I've never played Wind Waker or Majora's Mask, and I have a pretty strong opinion on that one!

But I'm basing it mostly on performances. I don't like TP nearly enough to have "fanboy goggles" for it.
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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 1:22:36 PM | message detail
Okay, I take that back. I played Majora's Mask for like 30 minutes.
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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 1:27:36 PM | message detail
But really, this is more of a "I didn't see ANYTHING that tells me LTTP or Mario 64 would rock FFX last year" than whether or not FFX would win. I admit FFX would probably be an underdog against either game and rightfully so, but this whole "LTTP would beat down FFX" stuff...I don't buy that.

Although this is one situation where you could probably fairly accuse me of bias!
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charmander6000 | Posted 12/5/2010 1:28:50 PM | message detail
TP could become stronger than LttP when the SNES becomes unknown, kind of like what the NES did to SMB3.

Thing is it probably won't happen until at least another decade.
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charmander6000 | Posted 12/5/2010 1:29:59 PM | message detail
You can't compare anything from the top half with the bottom half, too much Nintendo SFF/LFF.
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TheKoolAidShoto | Posted 12/5/2010 1:31:35 PM | message detail
You heard it here first, TP > LttP Games Contest 2020!
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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 1:34:58 PM | message detail

From: charmander6000 | #324
You can't compare anything from the top half with the bottom half, too much Nintendo SFF/LFF.


Well, yeah, there's that. I don't really take anything LTTP did prior to the quarterfinals to be worth much of anything because it was LTTP beating up a bunch of SNES Nintendo games and FFVI. Of course it's going to look good there.

But I do think LTTP is noticeably weaker than it was in 2004, so the point is that it's already started to slide a little bit and it's just going to keep on sliding as we get to the point where we get a large percentage of users who grew up without ever playing a SNES (and we're not that far off, considering people who were born the year the N64 launched will be 15 next year).

And while I think CT is certainly still a strong game, 52% on it doesn't ring quite as clearly as it would have with me a few years beforehand, obviously. That game has definitely fallen off a bit. It's not out of FFX's range, I don't think. Either way, neither Mario 64 or LTTP would break 55% on it. I'm almost 100% positive of that. I think they'd struggle to break 53% at most.
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red sox 777 | Posted 12/5/2010 1:35:49 PM | message detail
LTTP got the same percentage against FFVII as FFX got against OOT in round 5. LTTP was saddled with 2 Nintendo games in the match, while FFX had Brawl helping out its cause (and MGS4 probably hurting it a bit). That says a lot about them, and is the best comparison between them. Getting 55-45 on FFVI despite Triple SFF is quite impressive too- it suggests LTTP wins that 60-40 or worse even in a 1v1. FFVI fell a lot, but considering it was stronger than X in 2004, again, it doesn't look like LTTP/FFX should be close.

Comparing Mario 64 and FFX: Mario 64 got 72% on Symphony of the Night in round 2. In round 1, it still doubled it despite Kirby Super Star holding it down, and probable First Place Factor. FFX just got 70% on Borderlands........SOTN or Borderlands? SOTN also beat Resident Evil 1 in that poll, too.

Chrono Trigger also got 70% against Yoshi's Island in round 1- YI or Borderlands? YI or Morrowind?
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PartOfYourWorld | Posted 12/5/2010 1:36:47 PM | message detail

From: charmander6000 | #323
TP could become stronger than LttP when the SNES becomes unknown, kind of like what the NES did to SMB3.

Thing is it probably won't happen until at least another decade.


In another decade, will this site really be populated by 21-year-olds whose nostalgic gaming memories are flooded with Twilight Princess? I doubt it; it doesn't work that way. The 20-somethings of today are still part of that first "great" generation of gaming - when characters and stories started to mean something. We'll always have nostalgic feelings for those games, we'll talk about them, and they'll always maintain some playrate due to word of mouth. Will the internet gamers of 2020 talk about Twilight Princess, Brawl, and CoD the same way that internet gamers of today talk about FFVII and OoT? Technically, the verdict will be out for another ten years, but I'm going with no.
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Azp2k32 | Posted 12/5/2010 1:37:23 PM | message detail
Christ, I went with so many upset picks while making my bracket without realizing it. FFX>RE4, TTYD>Oblivion, WW>MM, SMG>TP, MGS4>3... if nothing else, MGS4 losing to Melee in the finals is what's gonna kill me.
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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 1:37:30 PM | message detail

From: red sox 777 | #327
Comparing Mario 64 and FFX: Mario 64 got 72% on Symphony of the Night in round 2. In round 1, it still doubled it despite Kirby Super Star holding it down, and probable First Place Factor. FFX just got 70% on Borderlands........SOTN or Borderlands? SOTN also beat Resident Evil 1 in that poll, too.

Chrono Trigger also got 70% against Yoshi's Island in round 1- YI or Borderlands? YI or Morrowind?


Well, the problem is either you're going to get some disconnect between 4-ways and 1-on-1s here or SOTN and Yoshi's Island are going to look very bad.

Because LTTP's not going to wreck FFX and neither is CT.
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TheKoolAidShoto | Posted 12/5/2010 1:38:26 PM | message detail

From: Azp2k32 | #329
Christ, I went with so many upset picks while making my bracket without realizing it. FFX>RE4


That's an upset? Its a dirty, dirty pick that you should bad about supporting, but FFX is still the favorite.
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red sox 777 | Posted 12/5/2010 1:39:00 PM | message detail
In another decade, will this site really be populated by 21-year-olds whose nostalgic gaming memories are flooded with Twilight Princess? I doubt it; it doesn't work that way. The 20-somethings of today are still part of that first "great" generation of gaming - when characters and stories started to mean something. We'll always have nostalgic feelings for those games, we'll talk about them, and they'll always maintain some playrate due to word of mouth. Will the internet gamers of 2020 talk about Twilight Princess, Brawl, and CoD the same way that internet gamers of today talk about FFVII and OoT? Technically, the verdict will be out for another ten years, but I'm going with no.

Yoblazer's got this. The newer generations will never dethrone the PS1/N64 generation the way that generation did to the SNES/NES generations. The energy has gone out of the industry, for lack of a better way to phrase it.
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charmander6000 | Posted 12/5/2010 1:39:16 PM | message detail
Well there is a reason why none of us can really agree which game is the number 3 on this site.

As much as I want a games contest with a ToC I think we should take a break from games for a year and just have a character battle in the summer.
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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 1:39:34 PM | message detail

From: PartOfYourWorld | #328
In another decade, will this site really be populated by 21-year-olds whose nostalgic gaming memories are flooded with Twilight Princess? I doubt it; it doesn't work that way. The 20-somethings of today are still part of that first "great" generation of gaming - when characters and stories started to mean something. We'll always have nostalgic feelings for those games, we'll talk about them, and they'll always maintain some playrate due to word of mouth. Will the internet gamers of 2020 talk about Twilight Princess, Brawl, and CoD the same way that internet gamers of today talk about FFVII and OoT? Technically, the verdict will be out for another ten years, but I'm going with no.


Nah, gaming's just not the same anymore for that kind of stuff to happen. There's really nothing more games can do that can really wow you and make you say, "Man, I remember when games started doing THIS!" or "I remember the first time I saw something like THIS!" in a game.

But TP will eventually overtake LTTP just by default more than anything else.
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KanzarisKelshen | Posted 12/5/2010 1:40:51 PM | message detail

From: LeonhartFour | #334
Nah, gaming's just not the same anymore for that kind of stuff to happen. There's really nothing more games can do that can really wow you and make you say, "Man, I remember when games started doing THIS!" or "I remember the first time I saw something like THIS!" in a game.

But TP will eventually overtake LTTP just by default more than anything else.


I disagree. Portal and Half Life 2 will still be talked about for years to come. People will be talking about certain games from this gen for a long, loooooong time.
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TheKoolAidShoto | Posted 12/5/2010 1:41:13 PM | message detail

From: PartOfYourWorld | #328
In another decade, will this site really be populated by 21-year-olds whose nostalgic gaming memories are flooded with Twilight Princess? I doubt it; it doesn't work that way. The 20-somethings of today are still part of that first "great" generation of gaming - when characters and stories started to mean something. We'll always have nostalgic feelings for those games, we'll talk about them, and they'll always maintain some playrate due to word of mouth. Will the internet gamers of 2020 talk about Twilight Princess, Brawl, and CoD the same way that internet gamers of today talk about FFVII and OoT? Technically, the verdict will be out for another ten years, but I'm going with no.


I think this more because technology doesn't have the leaps and bounds PS1/N64 has. There's never gonna be one of those "holy s*** its Mario in 3d!" or "Holy s*** FF7 I've never played anything like this!" kind of impact ever again.
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TheKoolAidShoto | Posted 12/5/2010 1:42:16 PM | message detail
And of course, Leon already states what I stated. Wheee.
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Assassin_Thane | Posted 12/5/2010 1:43:02 PM | message detail
here is a huge generation difference between lttp and tp but lttp would still win very comfortably. in terms of zelda strength it goes something like this imo

OoT - 50%
LttP - 37%
TP - 32%
MM - 30%
WW - 29%
Awakening - 25%
Zelda 1 - 19%

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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 1:43:39 PM | message detail

From: TheKoolAidShoto | #337
And of course, Leon already states what I stated. Wheee.


And with laggy internet, to boot!
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red sox 777 | Posted 12/5/2010 1:44:00 PM | message detail
Well, the problem is either you're going to get some disconnect between 4-ways and 1-on-1s here or SOTN and Yoshi's Island are going to look very bad.

Because LTTP's not going to wreck FFX and neither is CT.


There's no reason to think 4-ways were responsible here. LTTP, SM64, and CT could just as easily have underperformed due to the format (and in Mario 64's case, it was being LFF'd in both round 1 and 2, so there's reason to believe SOTN's numbers relative to it are actually too high). 4-ways are erratic, but we can't predict which way they swing.

I was thinking along the lines of 55/45 for LTTP/FFX. Maybe higher now, if Square has taken a dive since the last games contest as looks probable. FFVII always did better relative to OOT than FFX did relative to LTTP, so I'd expect LTTP to get OOT's score on FFVII as a absolute minimum.
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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 1:44:29 PM | message detail

From: Assassin_Thane | #338
here is a huge generation difference between lttp and tp but lttp would still win very comfortably. in terms of zelda strength it goes something like this imo

OoT - 50%
LttP - 37%
TP - 32%
MM - 30%
WW - 29%
Awakening - 25%
Zelda 1 - 19%


TP is closer to LttP than it is to MM or WW.
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charmander6000 | Posted 12/5/2010 1:44:44 PM | message detail
I would take LoZ over LA, at least indirectly, those types of games seem to get franchise votes, just take a look at SMB and FF.
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red sox 777 | Posted 12/5/2010 1:46:09 PM | message detail
But TP will eventually overtake LTTP just by default more than anything else.

In 10 years time will pass TP by just as much as for LTTP. LTTP is already old- each additional year isn't going to do much to it. TP is part of the current generation right now, but it's not going to stand out in another 2 generations.
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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 1:47:14 PM | message detail

From: red sox 777 | #343
LTTP is already old- each additional year isn't going to do much to it.


Of course it will. There's still a fairly sizable contingent here that grew up with an SNES. Those people aren't going to be here forever (...presumably).
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UltimaterializerX | Posted 12/5/2010 1:49:12 PM | message detail
Final Fantasy damage control vs Zelda damage control
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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 1:50:07 PM | message detail
Although I suppose SNES classics and stuff will continuously be repackaged and resold in years to come, so who knows.

But those people certainly won't feel the same about LTTP as people who grew up playing it did, so again, who knows.
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charmander6000 | Posted 12/5/2010 1:50:35 PM | message detail
LTTP is already old- each additional year isn't going to do much to it.

Didn't we say the same thing about SMB3?

It's silly to think that a large portion of the site will remain in 10 or even 5 years and when they get replaced it'll be by younger people.
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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 1:50:43 PM | message detail

From: UltimaterializerX | #345
Final Fantasy damage control vs Zelda damage control


How's G/S/C to the finals looking
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red sox 777 | Posted 12/5/2010 1:51:03 PM | message detail
OOT - 50%
LTTP - 36%
TP - 32%
LOZ - 30%
MM - 29%
WW - 29%
LA - 26%

Or something like that. I know LOZ appears very high, but I believe in stats until they are proven wrong. LoZ got 43% on SMB3 in 2004, and it has to be closer now, since it is clearly preferred to SMB3 among the younger generations.
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LeonhartFour | Posted 12/5/2010 1:52:04 PM | message detail

From: red sox 777 | #349
LoZ got 43% on SMB3 in 2004, and it has to be closer now, since it is clearly preferred to SMB3 among the younger generations.


Then I'd hate to see what you think of SMB1 compared to the rest of the Mario games!

Because didn't Mario 1 get like 55% on Zelda 1 one round
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