GameFAQs Contests

From: KamikazePotato | #292
I disagree with the original being more notable. It came out at the tail-end of the N64's lifespan. TTYD came out during a time when people were clamoring for GC RPGs.

But Paper Mario had the whole graphics thing as its hook. People then were clamoring for a SMRPG sequel, and the whole paper gimmick threw them a curveball. The entire thing was old-hat by the time TTYD came around. And coming out near the end of the N64's lifespan hasn't hurt Majora's Mask, which only came out a few months earlier!
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Wylvane
NaturalChemical is a horrible user.

From: creativename | #299
Haha, I have absolutely no idea which would be the stronger PM game, but I think "simpler title" is honestly the best reasoning I've read so far on which game would be stronger :)

This makes me think of a new theory. In terms of close matches, how many times do games with shorter titles win?
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Wylvane
th3l3fty is a horrible user.

I dunno, I'd say it probably did hurt Majora's Mask. Look how far away it is from OOT, when it is its direct sequel.
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.

Coming out at the tailend of the lifespan has definitely hurt Majora's Mask. It's probably weaker then Wind Waker, after all.

I don't think it was old hat by then, either. There was a decent 3-year gap to let people want another Mario RPG in that style.

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DFF

Damn, too bad.
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GotD Bracket: 54/62 Today's Matches: PM: TTYD & Oblivion

From: Not_Wylvane | #301
And coming out near the end of the N64's lifespan hasn't hurt Majora's Mask, which only came out a few months earlier!

I don't know about this. I think if MM had come out earlier, it would've been significantly more popular and stronger.
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dat night vote
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From: red sox 777 | #303
I dunno, I'd say it probably did hurt Majora's Mask. Look how far away it is from OOT, when it is its direct sequel.

I think Majora's Mask's whole time system making it a bit of a black sheep as well as exclusively featuring Young Link are bigger factors than when it came out.
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Wylvane
Heroic Bigpun is a horrible user.

Coming at the end of a cycle always hurts games.. look at ff9 and ff12, as an example. by that time most people have already moved onto new systems or are getting ready to
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WW is/was a black sheep to. That cel-shaded art style was not initially well-received.

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DFF

I know this is early and TTYD will drop, but right now if you make the two GoW games equal Portal only wins with about 61%.

Now if you remember that GoW1 > GoW2...
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The time system, taking place in Termina instead of Hyrule, and the absence of Ganon relegated it to the status of being considered only a semi-mainline Zelda title, which was a big blow strengthwise probably.
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.

debating MM or WW as the black sheep is like debating FFVIII or FFXII as the black sheep.

A series can have more than one.
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GotD Bracket: 54/62 Today's Matches: PM: TTYD & Oblivion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4MjPvB0VF0

This game: "I can't believe people actually care about whether or not I came at the tail end of my console's lifespan. I mean, wouldn't people just want to buy the great game for the system they already have instead of being sucked into hype? Then again, maybe not. You know, I might as well be the terminus of classic Nintendo, for heaven's sake. Before the company started releasing strings of games that changed very little from each other, or used cheap tricks to pad out their lengths, or something. Heck, I was supposed to combat the PS2 release!"

Seriously. Why do people actually care about this "it came at the end of its system's life" thing?
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From: KamikazePotato | #310
WW is/was a black sheep to. That cel-shaded art style was not initially well-received.

Not arguing that. But if WW can be weak because of its graphics, why can't MM be weak for being a somewhat-gimmicky Zelda game rather than when it was released?

As for FF12, it's already a decisive game among the FF fanbase, having to do much more with its gameplay system and story than when it was released. FF9 has some hardcore fans, but the general fanbase is apathetic to it compared to the likes of 7, 8, and 10, and that could also be attributed to its storyline, which is a radically different tone and directly than the biggest FF games on this site.
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Wylvane
Chrono1219 is a horrible user.

I've never been a huge fan of the "end of the console's life" argument. FFVIII and IX (and heck, some would argue MGS) came relatively late in the PS1's life. RE4 was late into the Gamecube's short life. MGS3, God of War, and KHII were pretty late in the PS2's life. Chrono Trigger was a late SNES arrival. If you want to go back far enough, even Mario 3 came at the tail end of the NES. Majora and Paper Mario have some pop. Even if TP had been GameCube exclusive, it would have still likely been stronger than Wind Waker. There are too many examples that hurt the theory.

I think Majora's Mask was hurt a lot more by the Expansion Pack requirement than its release date. You needed to upgrade your system just to play it.
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Seriously. Why do people actually care about this "it came at the end of its system's life" thing?

Because it's true. Sure we could spend money and buy a game on a console that we already have or you can do what a lot of people do and save up to buy the next console.
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Also by late I usually mean within a year before the next console is released so things like MGS and RE4 wouldn't be counted.
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RE4 was late into the Gamecube's short life.

RE4 sold twice as much on PS2 as Wii. I'm pretty sure thats where it gets the majority of its strength.
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On the other hand, at the end of a console's lifespan, you have the most people who already own the console and can easily buy the game and play it. The console userbase at launch is far more limited.
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.

On the other hand, at the end of a console's lifespan, you have the most people who already own the console and can easily buy the game and play it. The console userbase at launch is far more limited.

it is statistically proven that games near the end of a consoles life time have less sales. FF9 is the least selling 3D FF, and FF12 is the 2nd least selling, for instance.
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Also being a huge game at the end probably does save you since people are going to want to buy it, but random purchases do take a dive.
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Paper Mario has almost 64% of the vote?

...man, Fenix can't catch a break. GoW is getting absolutely embarrassed this year.

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CURRENT GOTY SCORE: 54
Watch Outsourced! I know that doesn't have anything to do with the contest, but...

@PartOfYourWorld: It's not like NOW you need a system upgrade to play Majora's Mask!
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Heh...how many Mario RPG-characters would you take over Fenix nowadays? Fenix had one good year and fell hard ever since.....
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It's much more important what people needed to play MM 10 years ago than now. 10 years ago is where most of its fanbase on Gamefaqs became its fans.
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.

Marcus Fenix is the 4th best character of the main teams in GoW1/2, dude should stop get nominated.
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Heh...how many Mario RPG-characters would you take over Fenix nowadays? Fenix had one good year and fell hard ever since.....

None, we've seen Fawful, though that was a Mario & Luigi character. I can't really think of a Paper Mario/SMRPG character that would be any more than terrible fodder. I wouldn't even take Geno/Mallow.
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Well, let's look at this. How often is a mega-game released in the last year of a console's life cycle? It's pretty rare. I think it's a combination of that plus sequels to well-received series being released late - that's why these games are weaker. I don't think Paper Mario would be significantly stronger if it were released in 1997, for example.
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The console userbase at launch is far more limited.

This is true, but there are also very few competing games. If you release your game during the system's launch, it's far less likely to be overshadowed - that's a big reason why games such as Pikmin and Excite Truck did so well.

Heh...how many Mario RPG-characters would you take over Fenix nowadays? Fenix had one good year and fell hard ever since.....

Geno/Fenix could be a really interesting match, actually. I hope Bacon is reading this!

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CURRENT GOTY SCORE: 54
Watch Outsourced! I know that doesn't have anything to do with the contest, but...

Geno/Fenix could be a really interesting match, actually. I hope Bacon is reading this!

33% against Zero vs. 25% against Squall, not really going for it.

Though maybe in a few more years.
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So anyone find it interesting that the only two Mario games to look good are the Paper Marios?
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So anyone find it interesting that the only two Mario games to look good are the Paper Marios?

All in all, I think Sunshine looked okay. But yeah, it is really surprising that the Paper Marios have done so well, while Galaxy looked mediocre and the Mario Karts and NSMBWii did outright terrible.

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CURRENT GOTY SCORE: 54
Watch Outsourced! I know that doesn't have anything to do with the contest, but...

I think a couple of months could have made PM substantially stronger. It was released in January 2001, after the PS2, with the GC and Xbox launch 10 months away- I think the N64 felt like a lame duck after New Years 2001. It's not the same with consoles like the SNES and PS2 though, that lived long lives and remained popular right up until the new console came out- or even after. It's telling that both systems received new titles years after their successors came out.
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.

February 5th, apparently.

I would bet it's not so much "New Years" as missing the Christmas of 2000 that would have hurt it the most. The game was released in August in Japan, so it doesn't seem like a holiday release would have been impossible, either.

the only reason PM games look good is because of the expectations. I don't think a single Mario game has really disappointed - everything that was supposed to happen has.
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xyzzy

Well, New Years and Christmas are only 7 days apart. Of course the game needed to be released before Christmas, yes, but I said New Years because the N64 was not a lame duck console over the 2000 Christmas season (people were playing the games they had just received).
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Nominate Crono so he can get a higher seed and avoid being fed to Clinkeroth early in the contest.

Oh, wow, Gears of War... you're weak. I simply cannot deny it now. Man, I still can't believe how weak it is for being supposedly a GOTY contender (winner?) and all that among the general gaming population.

Well, my spread betting game is all but destroyed once again... hmmmm....on the bright side, it does give me more hope that FFXII can beat Portal, since, you know, 71% on GoW2 suddenly doesn't look as great.

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From: transience | #334
everything that was supposed to happen has.

Even MvC2 > NSMBWii? I wish you would have told me that sooner for my bracket!
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So does PM > WoW look more promising now?
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I don't know about this. I think if MM had come out earlier, it would've been significantly more popular and stronger.

I kind of agree, actually, if you mean if Zelda:MM came out before Ocarina of Time. I don't think the argument of whether it was "late" for the system is the reason, but if Zelda:MM was the first Zelda game out since Link's Awakening, the hype would have been huge, and I think things would be a lot different.

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From: PartOfYourWorld | #329
I don't think Paper Mario would be significantly stronger if it were released in 1997, for example.

Couldn't disagree more strongly. I don't think there's any question it would be stronger if it were released in 97. It would've been very graphically advanced at that time too if it were the same game. It would likely have been considered a much bigger deal and would've been one of the defining games of the era probably.

Paper Mario in 97 would've been a wholly, wholly different beast than Paper Mario in 2001.
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Well, Paper Mario > WoW is basically a lock now.

Well my bracket had MvC2 > NSMBWii and PW > MKWii. Whatever. I think NSMBWii would plaster MKWii.
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From: LinkMarioSamus | #343
Well, Paper Mario > WoW is basically a lock now.

Goddammit...
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Score-Brackets-% Right
59------1------------100.00
58------7------------100.00
57------50----------92.00
56------107--------91.59
55------317--------92.43
54------591--------85.62
53------950--------85.47
52------1432------87.29
51------1775------83.89
50------2033------83.77
49------2205------83.27
48------2331------81.21
47------2256------80.94
46------2257------79.88
45------2313------80.11
44------2111------79.58
43------1940------81.24
42------1814------81.53
41------1532------80.03
40------1234------78.85
39------950--------80.42
38------769--------79.58
37------578--------78.55
36------403--------75.68
35------326--------75.77
34------233--------72.10
33------180--------70.56
32------130--------68.46
31------79----------64.56
30------75----------76.00
29------33----------60.61
28------31----------58.06
27------19----------68.42
26------22----------50.00
25------15----------80.00
24------9------------88.89
23------10----------60.00
22------7------------57.14
21------7------------71.43
20------7------------42.86
19------5------------40.00
18------11----------27.27
17------7------------71.43
16------6------------33.33
15------4------------0.00
14------6------------33.33
13------11----------27.27
12------11----------9.09
11------9------------0.00
10------18----------5.56
9--------6------------0.00
8--------10----------10.00
7--------6------------33.33
6--------3------------0.00
5--------5------------0.00
4--------3------------0.00
3--------1------------100.00
2--------9------------11.11
1--------25----------0.00
0--------19----------5.26

High prediction percentage as you would expect. The last -2 still hangs on.

3 people fell off the Top 50 today. MayorQuimby2121, Captain_InsaneO and mmx724 did not have Assassin's Creed II beating ICO.
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From: red sox 777 | #312
The time system, taking place in Termina instead of Hyrule, and the absence of Ganon relegated it to the status of being considered only a semi-mainline Zelda title, which was a big blow strengthwise probably.

I agree with you that these factors were more important (well, except the absence of Ganon, I don't think that's a huge deal as long as the replacement villain wasn't lame - which for Zeldas they typically are; Dark Link was probably the coolest, but he was just a boss fight, not a character in the story). However that doesn't mean the release date wasn't also a big deal. There's many reasons MM is a black sheep. For WW, it's a combination of the cel shading and "80% of the game is sailing" thing. If it weren't for those WW could've been huge. MM could've been bigger, but would've had a harder time being huge just due to the release timing, and not being the first Zelda for its console.

I agree with Harrich that if you imagine MM came out before OoT, it's probably one of the stronger games even despite the other problems, because it would've been one of the core N64 titles.

From: WhiteLens | #340
So does PM > WoW look more promising now?

PM had already transformed into the big favorite, I'm pretty sure. Failing to break 60% on Animal Crossing is pretty sad. But WoW still has a decent chance.
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Go Paper Mario!
Proud to see it smash Gears like this.

Unless I've missed it, I don't think we've had a recent discussion about the big 2009 match between Kingdom Hearts, Vice City, Metroid Prime, and Paper Mario. Both Nintendo games looked terrible then, but we're now coming off two great PM performances, and Prime showed that it's clearly stronger than Paper Mario last time around. Did the two Ninty entrants cannibalize themselves that badly last time? It certainly doesn't look like these games would get nearly tripled by Kingdom Hearts. Heck, it looks like either PM might be able to dispatch Vice City, and Vice City put up 63.5% on Paper Mario last year.

The results don't jive at all with what we saw last year. I think these two PM performances, coupled with Prime's own very good showing against a jRPG (we've seen what those have been doing) in a night match spell really good news for Prime.

I'll never hear the end of it if Ng was right all along.
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What kind of % are we thinking for Oblivion tomorrow? I have no idea what to expect... 65% maybe?
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I expect low 60's. I think SCII is very respected and won't just roll over. If it exceeds expectations I think people will wrongly attribute it to Oblivion weakness rather than Soul Calibur strength. SCII was extremely acclaimed, and multi-platform, and of course had Link.
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