GameFAQs Contests

In Auron's defence he's been hit by SFF in most of his contest appearances including the last two.
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All this talk about Square SFF......Crono/Sephiroth will be Crono's opportunity to prove that he alone out of all Square characters can stand up to Cloud and Sephiroth without getting SFFed an inch.
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6 years later, Crono's quest to defeat Sephiroth -- Round 1: Missingno
'Till shade is gone, 'till water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared....

Not only that, but he almost beat him immediately after Advent Children

Pretty sure Advent Children was released in between Squall/Vincent and Vincent/Crono, but I may be wrong there.

From: charmander6000 | #151
In Auron's defence he's been hit by SFF in most of his contest appearances including the last two.

Yep, 2005 and 2006 are the only times when Auron hasn't been hit with SFF somehow.
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"But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside."
"I am lightning...the rain transformed."

And I've been saying this since 2006 when everyone was treating Mega Man like a pariah, but I think Sora/Auron would be a damn close match. People seem to have this misconception that Auron is up there with Vinny/Squall, but he's clearly a step down from them. Still a step up from the Ganondorfs and Tifas of the world though.
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http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs14/f/2007/020/b/f/Ariel_by_lolita_art.jpg

From: red sox 777 | #152
All this talk about Square SFF......Crono/Sephiroth will be Crono's opportunity to prove that he alone out of all Square characters can stand up to Cloud and Sephiroth without getting SFFed an inch.

If he does, all it'll prove is that there isn't a strong enough connection between the two (which I've always suspected. Not a shred of FFVII/CT SFF anywhere, and it's not like they have a lack of matches to look at).
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"Stay with me until the end. Please."
"Not until the end. Always."

Pretty sure Advent Children was released in between Squall/Vincent and Vincent/Crono, but I may be wrong there.

That's what I remember too. Nonetheless I feel pretty confident about Squall > Auron.
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6 years later, Crono's quest to defeat Sephiroth -- Round 1: Missingno
'Till shade is gone, 'till water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared....

I'm pretty sure it either leaked or was released just prior to Squall/Vincent, but that was 4 years ago so I could be wrong.

Nonetheless, KH2 clearly helped Squall
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http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs14/f/2007/020/b/f/Ariel_by_lolita_art.jpg

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

I remember people speculating about what impact Advent Children would have on Vincent/Crono (and obviously the speculation about whether or not Vincent overperformed as a result, which apparently still hasn't died, despite being pretty obvious that if there was an overperformance, it wasn't much), but I don't ever remember discussing (or as a Squall fan, blaming) Vincent's win over Squall on Advent Children.
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"So cold. I am always by your side."
"There ain't no gettin' off of this train we on!"

If he does, all it'll prove is that there isn't a strong enough connection between the two (which I've always suspected. Not a shred of FFVII/CT SFF anywhere, and it's not like they have a lack of matches to look at).

Agreed, I've said that there wasn't much overlap between those two games for a long time. Or rather, excessive overlap to be technical, since it's obvious that there are many mutual fans of those games. That doesn't mean I can't take Crono being the exception like that to be a point of pride though.
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6 years later, Crono's quest to defeat Sephiroth -- Round 1: Missingno
'Till shade is gone, 'till water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared....

And I've been saying this since 2006 when everyone was treating Mega Man like a pariah, but I think Sora/Auron would be a damn close match. People seem to have this misconception that Auron is up there with Vinny/Squall, but he's clearly a step down from them. Still a step up from the Ganondorfs and Tifas of the world though.

Considering that Sora has put up great numbers against Squall in the last two contests (except one match) that's nothing to be ashame about. Getting 48% on Vincent/Squall is not weak by any standard.
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Actually rank these characters.

Squall
Vincent
Auron
Sora
Tifa
Ganondorf
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And I've been saying this since 2006 when everyone was treating Mega Man like a pariah, but I think Sora/Auron would be a damn close match. People seem to have this misconception that Auron is up there with Vinny/Squall, but he's clearly a step down from them. Still a step up from the Ganondorfs and Tifas of the world though.

As of 2006, the last time we have reliable reads for some of these characters, I agree. I didn't want to admit it at the time because I didn't want Crono to look that bad, but he, Megaman, and Sonic were likely all very close in strength that year, as the x-stats say. That gives us Vincent ~= Squall > Auron ~= Ganondorf ~= Sora. Tifa is impossible to place on the basis of her 2006 run (lol Tifa > Snake), but I'd probably put her around that Auron/Ganon/Sora trio.
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6 years later, Crono's quest to defeat Sephiroth -- Round 1: Missingno
'Till shade is gone, 'till water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared....

Squall
Vincent
Tifa
Auron
Sora
Ganondorf
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6 years later, Crono's quest to defeat Sephiroth -- Round 1: Missingno
'Till shade is gone, 'till water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared....

I'd rank them (perfectly fairly and without any bias at all, of course)

Squall
Vincent
Auron
Tifa
Ganondorf
Sora

But I really think they're all within like 5% of each other, and whenever we get Kingdom Hearts III, watch out for Sora. He's really the only near elite with potential upside to still boost a lot because he's basically the only one of those who's still getting games (except for Ganondorf, of course, but he'll never be a main playable character except in Smash, in all likelihood).
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"Hold on a minute! That testimony stinks!"
"Witness! You can't just say 'Hello' and expect us to get anywhere! I want you to testify!"

Vincent got the Japanese leak for FF:AC after Vincent/Squall, not before. Also, as a former big proponent for the leak being a factor in Vincent's performance against Crono, I feel pretty confident in it not mattering anymore. It's hard to find it consistently proven with the rest of the division's characters.

Also, it's funny how confident people can be that Auron beats Sora while Squall beats Auron. Though I'm an Auron > Squall kind of guy, there's no doubt Sora would put up a fine performance against Auron in a match. If Squall ends up beating Auron in anything less than a blow-out, Auron/Sora will be a need-to-see match. The KH-series has really stepped up in recent years and the days of Aeris > Sora isn't around anymore. Auron potentially having a close match with Sora instead of Squall isn't exactly a bad knock or a big difference.
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T E A M C H O C O L A T E
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/7355/64590879.png

Well, there's no doubt Sora would put up a fine performance against Squall most days (at least in 4-ways, I wonder how it'd hold up one-on-one), but I doubt anyone actually takes Sora to win (before KHIII anyway).
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"But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside."
"I am lightning...the rain transformed."

Plus, Sora > Auron is a result that just feels...weird, like I'd have a really hard time actually seeing it happen. I don't have any logical reason for feeling that way. I know they're close in strength, but for some reason, Sora winning that one would surprise me.
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"But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside."
"I am lightning...the rain transformed."

I want to see an Aeris/Sora rematch. It'd be so weird to see a doubling get turned around.....and I think you do have to give Aeris a chance there, as much as Sora looks a good deal stronger than her indirectly.
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6 years later, Crono's quest to defeat Sephiroth -- Round 1: Missingno
'Till shade is gone, 'till water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared....

Well, yeah, we've seen Squall beat Sora four times in two years under various conditions. Nobody has a good reason to take Sora > Squall until KH3 comes out.
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T E A M C H O C O L A T E
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/7355/64590879.png

From: red sox 777 | #169
I want to see an Aeris/Sora rematch. It'd be so weird to see a doubling get turned around.....and I think you do have to give Aeris a chance there, as much as Sora looks a good deal stronger than her indirectly.

Yeah, obviously, there were other factors at work in Sora beating Aerith (Squall most likely did a better number to Aerith than he did to Sora), so I'd be interested to see how that match would go straight up.

I also want to see Tifa/Aerith just because.
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"The great GF...Bahamut."
"...GF? I...? Using my powers...It is you humans...I fear..."

While we're ranking characters......here's a top 20 list, with tiers.

Tier 1 (Link)
1. Link

Tier 2 (Clinkeroth)
2. Cloud
3. Sephiroth

Tier 3 (The Noble Nine/Elite)
4. Solid Snake
5. Samus
6. Crono*
7. Mario

Tier 4 (Near-Elite)

8. Megaman
9. Squall
10. Vincent
11. Sonic
12. Tifa
13. Auron
14. Sora
15. Ganondorf

Tier 4 (High-Midcarders)

16. Kirby
17. Zelda
18. Dante
19. Luigi
20. Pikachu

*This assumes a 5% boost from CTDS. That is, 2010 Crono gets 55% on 2008 Crono.

The tiers are done by strength, which is why MM and Sonic got put into the "Near-Elite" tier. They're still Noble Niners of course, and I'm not saying they aren't or shouldn't be.

Tier 4 obviously has a lot more characters that just those 5, but this is a top 20 list and I stopped there.
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6 years later, Crono's quest to defeat Sephiroth -- Round 1: Missingno
'Till shade is gone, 'till water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared....

*This assumes a 5% boost from CTDS. That is, 2010 Crono gets 55% on 2008 Crono.

darn it red sox
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"But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside."
"I am lightning...the rain transformed."

Weird, certainly, but not unexplainable. Sora easily beat Aeris in Squall/Sora/Aeris/Croft in 2007 and clearly outdid her against Squall three out of four times (with Sonic/Squall/Sora/Sub-Zero being the exception). Throw in Sora's ~46% against Mega Man against Aeris's ~43% against Zelda in 2006, and you've got a fine argument for a match being turned around after 6 1/2 years.

I get that it's weird though, I'd feel awkward too. Still, the days of old aren't the days of today.
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T E A M C H O C O L A T E
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/7355/64590879.png

Sora outdid Aeris's performance against Squall the round before Sora was in their match three times, I should say.
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T E A M C H O C O L A T E
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/7355/64590879.png

There's no way that Kirby is that strong.
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Well, I put that there so people wouldn't start attacking my list over Crono > Mario immediately without looking at anything else. Although, now that I checked, it seems Crono broke 45% on Samus last year, specifically, with 45.02%. So, I'll have to amend that to "2010 Crono gets 54.97% on 2008 Crono" in order to stay consistent.

Oh, and I forgot to put Red and Cid on this list, but I guess they have no business on it until they've had a contest match.
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6 years later, Crono's quest to defeat Sephiroth -- Round 1: Missingno
'Till shade is gone, 'till water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared....

Oh yeah, Kirby > Luigi is a no-no.

Luigi should be the one at the top of that tier right at Ganondorf's heels, not Kirby. Don't take Kirby > Sonic seriously, people!
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"Stay with me until the end. Please."
"Not until the end. Always."

Well, Luigi only won 52/48 back in 2006, and all the Mario characters looked bad last year, while Kirby looked really good. No, I don't take that Sonic match at face value, but Kirby doesn't have a very large margin to turn around on Luigi.
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6 years later, Crono's quest to defeat Sephiroth -- Round 1: Missingno
'Till shade is gone, 'till water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared....

I don't know about the rest but Kirby is NOT stronger than Zelda.
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Demyx is better than Axel.

I feel that Kirby would lose to everyone you listed in tier 4 except Pikachu who is also overrated plus to such characters as Yoshi, Bowser, Mega Man X and Ryu
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and all the Mario characters looked bad last year

Luigi looked fine.

while Kirby looked really good

Well, as long as you're willing to ignore this:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=3268
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"Hold on a minute! That testimony stinks!"
"Witness! You can't just say 'Hello' and expect us to get anywhere! I want you to testify!"

Kirby also had the advantage of being a sore thumb. Heck he went from 51-56% on Master Chief between round 2 and 3.
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Kirby honestly had a perfect path. After round 1, he never saw another Nintendo character again.
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"Stay with me until the end. Please."
"Not until the end. Always."

I dunno about Kirby/Zelda. It just feels like a match Kirby would win, even if Zelda were stronger indirectly. Although this list is supposed to be about indirect strength and not Nintendo SFF, so Zelda should probably get the nod over Kirby there.

I totally forgot about MMX, but I'd put him somewhere in the near-elites. I'll just pretend for the purposes of this list though that MMX doesn't exist since he's never been in a 1v1 match yet and CJayC says so.
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6 years later, Crono's quest to defeat Sephiroth -- Round 1: Missingno
'Till shade is gone, 'till water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared....

Big Boss/Naked Snake deserves to be in that group as well, especially if you insist on Kirby being #16.
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"Spoil it for me. I'm never going to play that game so I want to know if he's going to be another Auron or another Sin." - Soul about Jecht vs. PW

Also the only Mario character that looked bad last year was Yoshi. Bowser did as expected before dying to Luigi and Mario did fine on Zelda if you weren't expecting SFF.
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Bowser did as expected before dying to Luigi

Except dying to Luigi qualifies as "bad" for Bowser.
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"Stay with me until the end. Please."
"Not until the end. Always."

I dunno about Kirby/Zelda. It just feels like a match Kirby would win, even if Zelda were stronger indirectly.

Why? Zelda is higher on the Nintendo food chain.
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Heh, if Zelda's stronger indirectly, Kirby ain't gonna win that.

Speaking of which, we STILL need to see Zelda/Ganondorf.
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"Hold on a minute! That testimony stinks!"
"Witness! You can't just say 'Hello' and expect us to get anywhere! I want you to testify!"

Yeah, and I would have put him there too, if I had realized he existed as a contest character. Man, 4-way matches are really unmemorable compared to 1v1 matches. (Yes, Big Boss was in a 1v1 contest, but his performance there certainly does not qualify him for top 20).
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6 years later, Crono's quest to defeat Sephiroth -- Round 1: Missingno
'Till shade is gone, 'till water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared....

Except dying to Luigi qualifies as "bad" for Bowser.

Not really, Bowser was on the wrong side of SFF, if you take Liquid/Phoenix Wright they are still equals and being equal to Luigi today is much better than what it was in the past.
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Big Boss' problem is that he seems to be picture sensitive. Well, MGS4 may have solved that problem since he did fine in round 2 with an old man pic. I wonder how well he'd do on Auron today, considering he got less than 30% in 2005. That could be quite the turnaround there.
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"Spoil it for me. I'm never going to play that game so I want to know if he's going to be another Auron or another Sin." - Soul about Jecht vs. PW

Not really, Bowser was on the wrong side of SFF

Which is exactly why it's so bad. Bowser used to not be on the wrong side of SFF, and now he is.
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"So cold. I am always by your side."
"There ain't no gettin' off of this train we on!"

Being SFF by Luigi doesn't make him any weaker than he use to and I wouldn't change my mind about any matches because of it.
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The fact that Bowser even loses to Luigi nowadays looks pretty bad for him, and the reason he does lose IS because he's weaker. He wouldn't have lost that match before the last couple of years. And the fact that he does lose to Luigi nowadays means I don't have much confidence in him to beat Sora.
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"So cold. I am always by your side."
"There ain't no gettin' off of this train we on!"

Yoshi got destroyed by Squall and Sora.
Bowser was embarassingly close to Phoenix Wright, Luigi in the poll or not. Besides, getting beaten that easily by Luigi counts as embarassing in itself for Bowser.
Luigi underwhelmed against Liquid Snake in round 1.
Mario let MMX and Zack get closer to him than he should have (especially the round 2 match against MMX and the Zack match), failed to SFF Zelda, and got beaten up badly by Link. To top it off Mario couldn't break 54% on Samus resulting in Samus winning many updates (it was 25 by morning).

As for Zelda/Kirby SFF, Kirby > Zelda just feels right to me. I have no argument for it really other than that I think that's how the Nintendo SFF ladder goes.
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6 years later, Crono's quest to defeat Sephiroth -- Round 1: Missingno
'Till shade is gone, 'till water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared....

I excuse Luigi's matches against Liquid because Liquid was just coming off MGS4, so he had reason to be stronger there.

You can't draw a single worthwhile conclusion from any of Mario's 2008 matches because all of them are tainted by LFF. The fact that he could beat MMX in spite of Link, Zelda, and Luigi strikes me as more impressive than not, though. SFFing Zelda is no small task. Samus didn't do it either. Mario/Samus was a weird one though, I admit.

And whenever you're debating the Nintendo SFF ladder, the general assumption is that you favor Zelda. I love Kirby, but I would pick Zelda to beat him without much hesitation.
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"Spoil it for me. I'm never going to play that game so I want to know if he's going to be another Auron or another Sin." - Soul about Jecht vs. PW

The fact that Bowser even loses to Luigi nowadays looks pretty bad for him, and the reason he does lose IS because he's weaker. He wouldn't have lost that match before the last couple of years. And the fact that he does lose to Luigi nowadays means I don't have much confidence in him to beat Sora.

You see it was Bowser being weaker I see it as Luigi being stronger. Also the reason I have Sora > Bowser is because I think he's gone up over the past few years and I would probably take him over any Bowser minus 2k5.


Yoshi got destroyed by Squall and Sora.

That's the only Mario character that looked bad and even then he only got a couple of points lower than he should have,

Bowser was embarassingly close to Phoenix Wright, Luigi in the poll or not. Besides, getting beaten that easily by Luigi counts as embarassing in itself for Bowser.

Bowser got expected on Phoenix Wright in round 1.

Luigi underwhelmed against Liquid Snake in round 1.

MGS boost, plain and simple

Mario let MMX and Zack get closer to him than he should have (especially the round 2 match against MMX and the Zack match), failed to SFF Zelda, and got beaten up badly by Link. To top it off Mario couldn't break 54% on Samus resulting in Samus winning many updates (it was 25 by morning).

MMX I believe is a step below Mega Man and with Zelda and Mudkip in the poll Mario was of course going to be leeched. Zack had a bandwagon and couldn't defeat Mario when he had Link on him. 54% against Samus is pretty good, as I've always said SFF works in weird ways check Sephiroth/Tifa between rounds 1 and 2.

As for Zelda/Kirby SFF, Kirby > Zelda just feels right to me. I have no argument for it really other than that I think that's how the Nintendo SFF ladder goes.

Kirby is almost bottom tier when it comes to the Nintendo ladder, I find it hard to believe that Zelda would lose, especially if you believe that she's indirectly stronger than him.

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You can't draw a single worthwhile conclusion from any of Mario's 2008 matches because all of them are tainted by LFF. The fact that he could beat MMX in spite of Link, Zelda, and Luigi strikes me as more impressive than not, though. SFFing Zelda is no small task. Samus didn't do it either. Mario/Samus was a weird one though, I admit.

And yet all of them taken together suggest something. Either Mario got unlucky with Nintendo SFF several times in a row (something that never seemed to happen to him before) or something changed.

Mario's performances on MMX depend on how strong you think MMX is of course, but given most people here's opinion of the strength gap between Mario and plain Megaman, let alone MMX, Mario did pretty poorly. And while the "Queen of SFF" isn't at the bottom of the Nintendo SFF ladder, I'd hardly expect her to be SFFing anyone.

And whenever you're debating the Nintendo SFF ladder, the general assumption is that you favor Zelda. I love Kirby, but I would pick Zelda to beat him without much hesitation.

This is the general assumption, but I've never really bought it, not for Ganondorf and Zelda who I see primarily as leeches.
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6 years later, Crono's quest to defeat Sephiroth -- Round 1: Missingno
'Till shade is gone, 'till water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared....