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I think this match was the final nail for Starcraft. Even at worst case scenario (max LFF, min SFF) MM couldn't defeat RBY. You could blame GS was hurting it, but I'm sure PD/BK hurt it just as much. Also don't forget that the overlap between 8 and 9 is smaller and Xenogears was in the previous match.

The only thing Starcraft has going for it is rallying (which won't work if it isn't close) or hope for another anomaly.
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Board 8 BOP: http://www.freewebs.com/charmander6000/BGE2%20BOP.xls
BGE2 - Today's Match: MGS > FFT Points: 133/192

rallies were worthwhile when we had 64 characters. now that we throw 128 into this, we can rally things like Tim in without too much trouble. NRT is just no longer relevant.
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xyzzy

Yeah, we could seriously rally for like two or three other FFVII characters, but what's the point?
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rallies were worthwhile when we had 64 characters. now that we throw 128 into this, we can rally things like Tim in without too much trouble. NRT is just no longer relevant.

It was still fun to have to board back something.
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Board 8 BOP: http://www.freewebs.com/charmander6000/BGE2%20BOP.xls
BGE2 - Today's Match: MGS > FFT Points: 133/192

Well, there will always be the Guru nomination!
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the overlap between 8 and 9 is more independent but I dunno if it's "smaller". Majora just went up 10% from its last performance - if Starcraft does that it almost wins. that's to say nothing of Ocarina getting half the vote.
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xyzzy

Characters I'd like to see in a Character Battle:

Seifer
Solidus Snake
Barret Wallace
The Merchant

Characters I'd like to see return:

Ultros

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138/192 points - The Best. Game. Ever 2009 Contest
NP: Metal Gear Solid > Zelda: MM | http://thengamer.com/guru/bracket.php?id=4

I'm kinda iffy on Solidus. The name might prevent him from being fodder, but I don't think he ends up any stronger than Ocelot or even The Boss. I've always wanted to see ANY Final Fantasy VIII character besides Squall get in here.

Heck, I wonder if Jecht might not be half-decent. FFX's got four characters that are midcard or better strength, and a fin nearly beat Robotnik once upon a time.
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I think Rinoa has decent potential, especially if she is featured in Kingdom Hearts 3. I can't believe we've never seen her in a CB!

Yeah, I think Rinoa could be worthwhile. I think her hate factor is a bit overrated, but it could still work against her.
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Holy crap, nice Morrigan post.

Characters we should try to get in:

Cid Highwind
Darth Revan
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the overlap between 8 and 9 is more independent but I dunno if it's "smaller". Majora just went up 10% from its last performance - if Starcraft does that it almost wins. that's to say nothing of Ocarina getting half the vote.

It isn't going to happen. Stop making me hopeful.

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"Luxe, calme et volupte." - Charles Baudelaire, The Invitation to the Voyage

We'll start to organize rallies (if we even decide to do any) once this contest is over. I'm definitely running my Morrigan rally, and I think somebody should try organizing a sizable Cid Highwind rally. Darth Revan is a good idea, too.
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(|| ' ' ||) Not changing my sig until EBA2/Ouendan 3 is announced. (4/22/08)
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And of course, I'll start some sort of FFVIII character rally.

One of these days, Alice.
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Whoa at the trends for RBY! Dizzamn. Crazy how much the board must love that game, these are almost joke trends for it O_O I knew the game was beloved by the board but yesterday I would've thought it'd do as good in the day as the power hour.

Nice performance for the Pokemon games combined here. I would've thought they'd get 5-10 points higher combined than MGS, they're doing 12 right now. Pretty good.

So this round RBY is holding GS to 42%-43%. Last round MGS held GS to 46.67%. Since RBY is obviously SFFing GS a bit, it looks like MGS and RBY would be very very close head to head! If we're really conservative and assume only a couple points of SFF, then RBY points MGS by only like a percent.

Really sucks that we're never going to get to see a fair MGS vs. RBY match - it'd be a good one. Two really close games, and with totally opposite trends to boot!

And I just realized that MGS would normally get the 2nd night vote but the board love for RBY might've led to some late match "moves" so to speak from RBY :) Man that could've been a legendary match.
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Let's hope the Guru winner can be convinced not to fritter it away. Altair was a pretty good choice, so let's gun for two in a row.
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I wouldn't waste it, but the odds of me getting it are slim considering I'm like #203 right now.
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RBY isn't SFFing GS any, I think. If anything GS is doing better indirectly than it normally would.

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http://thengamer.com/guru/

No, let's go for Toadette again!
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(|| ' ' ||) Not changing my sig until EBA2/Ouendan 3 is announced. (4/22/08)
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RBY isn't SFFing GS any, I think. If anything GS is doing better indirectly than it normally would.

Why do you say that?
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Actually, I'd totally throw in a nomination for Jecht. Not to mention he's in Dissidia!
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138/192 points - The Best. Game. Ever 2009 Contest
NP: Metal Gear Solid > Zelda: MM | http://thengamer.com/guru/bracket.php?id=4

Oh yeah, we gotta get Little Mac back in now that Punch-Out!! is out.
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(|| ' ' ||) Not changing my sig until EBA2/Ouendan 3 is announced. (4/22/08)
. /|_|\ http://imgcake.com/img/40/all_eba.jpg

GS' board vote, the amount of people complaining about people not voting for the 'obviously better Pokemon game', RBY's neutured day vote.

These games are splitting hard, yeah, but it's not SFF. I'd call GS rSFF first.

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http://thengamer.com/guru/

I'm also not seeing RBY vs. MGS being close...at all. This match makes it seem like a pretty clear 55-45 affair to me.

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http://thengamer.com/guru/

I think this match was the final nail for Starcraft. Even at worst case scenario (max LFF, min SFF) MM couldn't defeat RBY.

I don't know about that. I don't think this match affects Starcraft's chances too much.

The 8/9 LFF should certainly be less than for the old-school Final Fantasies, but it should be more than the Pokemon LFF probably. Even though the Pokemon games are true sequels while the FF games aren't and likely have a much more perfect playrate overlap, still seems like Nintendo LFF is not quite as bad as FF LFF.

But I could be wrong and the near perfect playrate overlap for the Pokemon games might mean they have a worse LFF than 8/9, I'm not sure.


I've always wanted to see ANY Final Fantasy VIII character besides Squall get in here.

They'd all be fodder other than maybe Seifer, and even he wouldn't be worth too much these days. That whole cast is pretty much forgotten other than Squall. Other than Seifer I'd guess Edea (or even Rinoa, who we know would be weak) is the strongest.

Jecht would be stronger than any of them.
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the overlap between 8 and 9 is more independent but I dunno if it's "smaller". Majora just went up 10% from its last performance - if Starcraft does that it almost wins. that's to say nothing of Ocarina getting half the vote.

How can you be more independent yet not have smaller overlap? Isn't that contradictory?

Again GS is not rSFF RBY, the game is strong on its own. The best you could hope for is that the split is the same as it would be indirectly.
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Board 8 BOP: http://www.freewebs.com/charmander6000/BGE2%20BOP.xls
BGE2 - Today's Match: MGS > FFT Points: 133/192

Again GS is not rSFF RBY, the game is strong on its own.

Do you not know what rSFF means?

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http://thengamer.com/guru/

I'm also not seeing RBY vs. MGS being close...at all. This match makes it seem like a pretty clear 55-45 affair to me.

Hey guys remember Fox 2007 when he destroyed his four-pack of Nintendo games? What a massive boost he's gotten compare to 2003.
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Board 8 BOP: http://www.freewebs.com/charmander6000/BGE2%20BOP.xls
BGE2 - Today's Match: MGS > FFT Points: 133/192

RBY isn't SFFing GS any, I think. If anything GS is doing better indirectly than it normally would.

GS rSFFing RBY?? SOmething that's never ever been proven to happen for anything, happening here of all places. Come on, that's totally nuts :) No chance.
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We're still not even sure rSFF even exists, much less here.
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1. And Fox went on to impress several more times.
2. What does that have to do with anything.

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Do you not know what rSFF means?

Yes I was there when it was invented. Indirectly RBY defeats GS with 58% or less.
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Board 8 BOP: http://www.freewebs.com/charmander6000/BGE2%20BOP.xls
BGE2 - Today's Match: MGS > FFT Points: 133/192

And I do believe that Jecht is probably stronger than any other FFVIII character, but I just need confirmation!
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I want to get Chibi Robo in, because we're guaranteed to get fodder anyway, so I want good fodder.
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:D

CT Robo might not do so bad either, but we don't need another CT character, really.
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1. And Fox went on to impress several more times.
2. What does that have to do with anything.

1. Were you there in 2007? People were ranking him just below the near-elites.

2. Because RBY destroyed its four-pack in round 1 people automatically think it's powerful.
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Board 8 BOP: http://www.freewebs.com/charmander6000/BGE2%20BOP.xls
BGE2 - Today's Match: MGS > FFT Points: 133/192

2. Because RBY destroyed its four-pack in round 1 people automatically think it's powerful.

...And this match doesn't legitimize that performance how?

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With this picture:

http://www.cosplayisland.co.uk/files/costumes/370/4145/10-jecht-a.jpg

Jecht would blitz some serious ass

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138/192 points - The Best. Game. Ever 2009 Contest
NP: Metal Gear Solid > Zelda: MM | http://thengamer.com/guru/bracket.php?id=4

...And this match doesn't legitimize that performance how?

It's strong, but it might not be as strong as people were calling for before today.
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http://www.court-records.net/animation/phoenix-superobjection.gif

I'm also not seeing RBY vs. MGS being close...at all. This match makes it seem like a pretty clear 55-45 affair to me.

The results here compared to the 1st round results are fairly conclusive that 55/45 is the worse possible case for MGS. That's not impossible but very unlikely and few are going to buy that. You have to be incredibly optimistic for RBY to think that.

Do you not know what rSFF means?

What...? You're talking about what would be the definition of rSFF here.


And I do believe that Jecht is probably stronger than any other FFVIII character, but I just need confirmation!

Getting Jecht in would be OK, but do you really need to see the FF8 cast humiliated like that? :)
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Getting Jecht in would be OK, but do you really need to see the FF8 cast humiliated like that? :)

Yes, I do!
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If I win the Guru, which I won't (currently 50ish, tomorrow 25ish), I'd pick Jecht.

And I'm not sure why everyone is sold on FFVIII getting out of this division (or is that just Leonhart). Sure, it beat Starcraft handily, but how much is that really gonna be worth? It will most likely advance tomorrow, but that MGS/RBY/OOT/FFVIII final is a complete toss-up imo.
I still think that MGS should be a stronger game than FFVIII, even though it hasn't looked terribly impressive. RBY is probably the strongest in a neutral setting, but there's an OOT in the way, which may or may not SFF it.
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A pro isn't someone who sacrifices himself for his job. That's just a fool. - Reno, FFVII

It's strong, but it might not be as strong as people were calling for before today.

Top 10 is still very possible. I'm not sure if anyone but Meeks was calling any higher.


That's not impossible but very unlikely and few are going to buy that.

How so? Based on your own predetermined ideas of the games?

Best case scenario for RBY (All of GS votes go to it, MM's votes go 60/40 between it and MGS): RBY wins directly by 58.1%.

Worst case scenario for RBY (80% of GS votes go to it, MM votes split evenly): RBY wins directly by 54.45%.

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http://thengamer.com/guru/

IMO it legitimizes RBY. I think being able to have a real close match with MGS is very respectable for that game, and something I would've been surprised by pre-contest. So I think this is fine for the game.

For the people with those absurd expectations for RBY though this performance falls well short for what they would've predicted. I don't know if it's fair to judge RBY of incredibly overhyped expectations like that though.
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This legitimizes both RBY and the entire series to me. GSC is the star of this match.
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Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your world!

but that MGS/RBY/OOT/FFVIII final is a complete toss-up imo.

It's in a lot more danger tomorrow due to FF9 than in that match. It shouldn't have any trouble getting 2nd there.
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From: creativename
IMO it legitimizes RBY. I think being able to have a real close match with MGS is very respectable for that game, and something I would've been surprised by pre-contest. So I think this is fine for the game.

For the people with those absurd expectations for RBY though this performance falls well short for what they would've predicted. I don't know if it's fair to judge RBY of incredibly overhyped expectations like that though.

This pretty much confirms RBY hits around the #7/8 position. And only MWC was calling it much higher then that.
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What's not to get.

...And this match doesn't legitimize that performance how?

Aren't we arguing whether or not RBY can break 55% on MGS? Since this match does not prove that it is able to accomplish that. Rather it disproves it unless you think 100% of GS's votes go to RBY.
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Board 8 BOP: http://www.freewebs.com/charmander6000/BGE2%20BOP.xls
BGE2 - Today's Match: MGS > FFT Points: 133/192

Getting Jecht in would be OK, but do you really need to see the FF8 cast humiliated like that? :)

If we make it a character from 8 that people wouldn't mind seeing get destroyed, sure!

And I've got the perfect candidate to offer as a sacrifice for Jecht: X-ATM092

believe

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138/192 points - The Best. Game. Ever 2009 Contest
NP: Metal Gear Solid > Zelda: MM | http://thengamer.com/guru/bracket.php?id=4

Let's just try not to rally a half dozen Pokemon because of it.
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Yoblazer: http://i38.tinypic.com/2s024p4.jpg
Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your world!