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Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 658

jonthomson | Posted 3/20/2009 5:49:47 AM | message detail
you guys need to check out my bracketology thread and point out horrible reasoning
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Jon Thomson - 1:10 pure 1:43 100% - HKP: 179
Super Metroid's Path To Glory: R1 vs. Sonic 3, Gunstar Heroes, Super Mario Kart
LeonhartFour | Posted 3/20/2009 9:25:14 AM | message detail
Phoenix Wright could potentially beat Sonic with the right format!
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MarioSuperstar | Posted 3/20/2009 9:34:07 AM | message detail
Phoenix Wright
Sonic
Sephiroth
Knuckles
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*is Dranze*
Through fire, justice is served because FastFalcon05 owned my bracket.
charmander6000 | Posted 3/20/2009 12:03:46 PM | message detail
Had a contest match been Bowser/Luigi/Mario/Yoshi would anyone take the upset or Yoshi > Mario?
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HaRRicH | Posted 3/20/2009 12:24:00 PM | message detail
It'd be a fun upset to go for last year, but I don't think I could have done it. I'm not trusting those polls THAT much...plus Yoshi didn't really impress last year against Fox, who Mario destroyed in 2007.
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Prototype
Shorthand, do you speak it?!
creativename | Posted 3/20/2009 12:26:48 PM | message detail
Had a contest match been Bowser/Luigi/Mario/Yoshi would anyone take the upset or Yoshi > Mario?

Mario would obliterate that pack. It would be gruesome.
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PartOfYourWorld | Posted 3/20/2009 12:46:39 PM | message detail
Link/Zelda/Ganondorf/Tingle

Anyone dare to take Tingle in second here?
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nintendogirl1 | Posted 3/20/2009 12:48:02 PM | message detail
Nah, that's be the GDorf in a smashing IMO.

By which I mean he might get 8%.
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lulz.
E_Gadd | Posted 3/20/2009 12:56:32 PM | message detail
Everyone seems so down on Sonic now!

Anyone willing to consider Ryu > Sonic or Kratos > Sonic?

How low does he go!
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Gaddswell
HaRRicH | Posted 3/20/2009 1:21:11 PM | message detail
Haha, Luigi, Mudkip, and pre-SSBB Pit crushed Tingle in 2007. Tingle could be the only person in the pic and there would be no way Tingle gets out of last place in Link/Zelda/Ganon/Tingle (I'll go with Link > Zelda!).


Just for fun, here's something of a clue of how Tingle would look after it's all said and done:

Tingle in Luigi/Mudkip/pre-SSBB Pit/Tingle
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=2879

Replacing Luigi with Ganondorf:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=2903

Replacing Mudkip with Zelda:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=3279

Imagine how much worse they should SFF Tingle than Luigi and Mudkip should...

...now replace pre-SSBB Pit with Link, who has done this to Zelda and Ganon:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=2901
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1750

I would really enjoy a Link/Zelda/Ganon/Tingle match in a way. Hell, throw Midna and Epona in there too. =)
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Prototype
Shorthand, do you speak it?!
KamikazePotato | Posted 3/20/2009 1:27:44 PM | message detail
Remember when people argued Epona vs. Vyse?

Those were the days.

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MyWorldIsCrono | Posted 3/20/2009 1:28:29 PM | message detail
Epona vs. Chocobo

who wins
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voltch | Posted 3/20/2009 1:36:57 PM | message detail
wait,i thouyght this was a games contest....why so many characters??
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ZenOfThunder | Posted 3/20/2009 1:37:32 PM | message detail
http://img.imgcake.com/Zen/request_4_2.png
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WarThaNemesis2 | Posted 3/20/2009 1:38:07 PM | message detail
Epona would kill Vyse.
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Masato_Tanaka | Posted 3/20/2009 1:39:23 PM | message detail
Epono and Chocobo would both destroy Vyse
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The Straight Up G
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nintendogirl1 | Posted 3/20/2009 1:47:29 PM | message detail
In my heart Epona > Vyse > Chocobo
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Fo' shame Vyse, fo' shame.
HaRRicH | Posted 3/20/2009 1:50:46 PM | message detail
I seriously want to see Epona in a contest. LoZ:OoT and LoZ:TP aren't bad games to have on the resume, you see Epona a lot in each of them, and...really, who dislikes the horse? Gotta be better than Tingle and likely better than Midna, too, and we don't have a lot of other worthwhile characters we've never seen to rally for anymore.
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Prototype
Shorthand, do you speak it?!
PartOfYourWorld | Posted 3/20/2009 2:06:46 PM | message detail
Epona is your OoT companion. There are a crapton of people out there with an emotional attachment to that horse, of which I am one.

Epona for the midcard!
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Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your world!
ZFS | Posted 3/20/2009 2:12:28 PM | message detail
Chocobo's got this

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Heroic Common Sense | Posted 3/20/2009 2:28:18 PM | message detail
You know what? If I win the guru contest, Epona is my pick. Nall can wait.
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MarioSuperstar | Posted 3/20/2009 2:28:52 PM | message detail
I don't see why people wouldn't take Tingle after seeing CD-i Link get second in that poll.
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*is Dranze*
Through fire, justice is served because FastFalcon05 owned my bracket.
superCP | Posted 3/20/2009 2:40:43 PM | message detail
you guys think a Zelda quarterfinals is possible? Zelda I, LTTP , OoT and TP in the quarterfinals? that would be the best thing ever in these contests, but i don't think that'll happen...
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voltch | Posted 3/20/2009 3:29:55 PM | message detail
a zelda quarter's fine,but an FF one would cos the biggest whinefest since the word whining was coined,and if you point out the double standard all then well nothing comes to it..
and no way in hell is that gonna happen,upper mario>mid zeldas and top FFs crush em,i wonder for top MGSs though.
can anything none mario/FF honestly beat a strong Zelda game?
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nintendogirl1 | Posted 3/20/2009 3:55:35 PM | message detail
Having 4 of the 8 games in the semis be zelda is really possible. And then OOT and LTTP both make the final.
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Disturbing and awesome.
MarioSuperstar | Posted 3/20/2009 4:04:38 PM | message detail
Kinda like how we hoped for a Zelda Elite Eight 5 years ago.
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*is Dranze*
Through fire, justice is served because FastFalcon05 owned my bracket.
LeonhartFour | Posted 3/20/2009 4:34:15 PM | message detail
Epona would own Vyse nowadays. Skies of Arcadia took a big hit with the site shift, it seems.
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transience | Posted 3/20/2009 5:58:58 PM | message detail
Mario 3/FF7/OOT/FFX gogogo
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xyzzy
what's up ryan AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
charmander6000 | Posted 3/20/2009 6:02:29 PM | message detail
That's my final, I have FFVII > OoT
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Karma Hunter | Posted 3/20/2009 6:03:30 PM | message detail
If the Zelda name has faltered enough to fall to Mario 3, that means one of two things - that it's just not up to snuff, or a deluge of Zelda games that ended up getting LttP knocked out. In the former case, FFVII in a walk. In the latter... *probably* still FFVII, as I have a hard time seeing Mario 3 folding like I do FFX. It also doesn't hurt that in today's climate I think FF7 is the legitimately stronger game again.
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transience | Posted 3/20/2009 6:04:31 PM | message detail
well, you're looking at FF7/Mario 3/LTTP/Zelda 1 in the previous round, that's the only way we'd arrive here.
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xyzzy
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transience | Posted 3/20/2009 6:05:45 PM | message detail
but I think looking at Mario 3 and OOT as "Nintendo" is dangerous - there's just a huge gap between those two, ten years, two consoles and one dimension. those guys won't overlap like FF7/FF10 will.
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xyzzy
what's up ryan AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Meeks54 | Posted 3/20/2009 6:05:46 PM | message detail

From: transience | #328
Mario 3/FF7/OOT/FFX gogogo




OoT>FF VII in an absolute rout.

Mario won't so much as breathe hard on OoT (just like anything Zelda) and FF X being the second most popular FF will take FF VII down a notch or two.
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Gunner is, what is the word... passionate. but i think that MichaelWClark dude is far crazier than anything Gunner has posted. Posted by Mark Milton
Karma Hunter | Posted 3/20/2009 6:08:40 PM | message detail
but I think looking at Mario 3 and OOT as "Nintendo" is dangerous - there's just a huge gap between those two, ten years, two consoles and one dimension. those guys won't overlap like FF7/FF10 will.

For that, I just look to how Zelda affected Mario in the past contest as compared to how Luigi affected Mario. Yes, the green brother had FAR more overlap... but Zelda hurt him more. Same thing here.
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BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 3/20/2009 6:09:01 PM | message detail
Mario 3/FF7/OoT/WoW here with the end result being FF7 > OoT
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Like Darth Maul, the bastard child of Michael Flatley and Hellboy. -trancer1
Karma Hunter | Posted 3/20/2009 6:10:48 PM | message detail
OoT>FF VII in an absolute rout.

Mario won't so much as breathe hard on OoT (just like anything Zelda)


Just like how Cloud/Sephiroth weren't going to hurt each other in the slightest

bazing
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transience | Posted 3/20/2009 6:11:16 PM | message detail
but here's the thing - you're looking at all Zeldas and all Marios. of course there's overlap. I agree with the logic, but in this case it doesn't apply.

with OOT/SMB3, there's just a world of difference there. overlap? yeah, but that's pretty damn distant. if we make a distinction between new and old Square, there should be one for old and new Nintendo. we just don't have any examples at the moment because Nintendo franchises just keep on going.
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xyzzy
what's up ryan AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Meeks54 | Posted 3/20/2009 6:12:38 PM | message detail

From: Karma Hunter | #334
but I think looking at Mario 3 and OOT as "Nintendo" is dangerous - there's just a huge gap between those two, ten years, two consoles and one dimension. those guys won't overlap like FF7/FF10 will.

For that, I just look to how Zelda affected Mario in the past contest as compared to how Luigi affected Mario. Yes, the green brother had FAR more overlap... but Zelda hurt him more. Same thing here.




Yeah, but you are REALLY reversing it here.

So, a mid tier Zelda was able to really hurt Mario.
Mario was absolutely crushed by Link.

Yet somehow by extension you think Mario 3 is going to significantly hurt by far Nintendo's biggest game, which just happens to be Zelda, which we just saw that Mario falters like crazy to.

It is going to be like when Samus and Mario meet Link. Super Mario Bros. 3 might as well not even show up, OoT will not feel a thing.
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Gunner is, what is the word... passionate. but i think that MichaelWClark dude is far crazier than anything Gunner has posted. Posted by Mark Milton
Karma Hunter | Posted 3/20/2009 6:14:28 PM | message detail
I don't believe that, say, FFVII and CT don't have significant overlap (heck, it's probably what cost Cloud runner-up last year). Much less than, perhaps, FFVII/FFVIII, but that's a given. SMB3 won't hurt OoT like LttP, but it doesn't need to. It just needs to not get throttled - because FFX will.
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Meeks54 | Posted 3/20/2009 6:15:08 PM | message detail

From: Karma Hunter | #336
OoT>FF VII in an absolute rout.

Mario won't so much as breathe hard on OoT (just like anything Zelda)


Just like how Cloud/Sephiroth weren't going to hurt each other in the slightest

bazing




Actually, I said that Cloud would still crush Seph, but that a split FF VII fanbase would be enough to beat Solid Snake anyway. This is different, this is Mario will not effect Zelda, Mario has never ever shown to touch Zelda in these things, why would it change now? SMB 3 will not make it anyway, so this is all totally irrelevant, ALttP will make it, and will harm OoT.
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Gunner is, what is the word... passionate. but i think that MichaelWClark dude is far crazier than anything Gunner has posted. Posted by Mark Milton
Karma Hunter | Posted 3/20/2009 6:19:18 PM | message detail
It is going to be like when Samus and Mario meet Link. Super Mario Bros. 3 might as well not even show up, OoT will not feel a thing.

Link went from barely breaking 60% on Crono to well over 70% when Mario/Samus were replaced with Snake/Cloud. FF7 needs a mere fraction of that to turn the match into, yes, a "rout".
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transience | Posted 3/20/2009 6:26:59 PM | message detail
I don't believe that, say, FFVII and CT don't have significant overlap (heck, it's probably what cost Cloud runner-up last year). Much less than, perhaps, FFVII/FFVIII, but that's a given. SMB3 won't hurt OoT like LttP, but it doesn't need to. It just needs to not get throttled - because FFX will.

this is difficult to argue, either for or against it. we have never seen anything that combines the old and the new.

but I wouldn't write off the possibility that Old Nintendo is separate from the New.
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xyzzy
what's up ryan AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 3/20/2009 6:27:21 PM | message detail
And I agree with transience that FFX hurts FF7 a lot more than Mario 3 does OoT
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Like Darth Maul, the bastard child of Michael Flatley and Hellboy. -trancer1
BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 3/20/2009 6:28:09 PM | message detail
Also, they're starting to hand out beta invitations for Starcraft 2.

It will be out before the end of the year hopefully!
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Like Darth Maul, the bastard child of Michael Flatley and Hellboy. -trancer1
Karma Hunter | Posted 3/20/2009 6:38:24 PM | message detail
but I wouldn't write off the possibility that Old Nintendo is separate from the New.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing that it's separate - or, at least, *more* separate than New/New and Old/Old. However, when you're talking about fourways, all overlap is relevant. Yes, SMB3/OoT might have surprisingly small overlap from an absolute standpoint - but more than SMB3/FF7 or SMB3/FFX? Of course not, we know that SMB3 is going to hurt OoT more than anything else in that match (which is why FFX is here, otherwise it wouldn't even be a discussion). It's the same thing for FFX and FF7, which is why we can't just compare overlap - even I would concede FF7 would be the underdog on straight overlap.

Strength is equally, if not more important, and the flipside of FFX having so much more overlap with FF7 is that it's guaranteed to get killed that much more as well. We're not talking about two games that are comparable in strength that also happen to have a ton of overlap like FFX/FF8 or MGS2/MGS3 or something. FF7 has FFX's number in every way on this site. With SMB3/OoT, at the *very* minimum you're going to get some fanbase splitting on franchise voting, if only because of an Old Nintendo/New Nintendo split.
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BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 3/20/2009 6:42:09 PM | message detail
Out of curiosity, running through Tidus/Squall and Squall/Cloud, how much does FFX get on FF7?
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Like Darth Maul, the bastard child of Michael Flatley and Hellboy. -trancer1
HaRRicH | Posted 3/20/2009 9:03:19 PM | message detail
Through that comparison, Tidus would be expected to get 15.01% on Cloud. That's ignoring things like Sora, the transition between one-on-one and four-way, the years between them, all that...but it's a fun comparison all the same.


These may make for better comparisons in this subject though:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=3299
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1771
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=2912
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1341

Huh...just realized Auron's faced both Cloud and Sephiroth in back-to-back years in each format.
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Prototype
Shorthand, do you speak it?!
charmander6000 | Posted 3/20/2009 9:04:18 PM | message detail
13.31%

lol double SFF.
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charmander6000 | Posted 3/20/2009 9:05:12 PM | message detail
Wait which Cloud/Squall are we using I used 2k4.
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HaRRicH | Posted 3/20/2009 9:14:13 PM | message detail
With this new discovery of Auron having faced Cloud and Sephritoh back-to-back in continuous years in each format, I'm going to make a simple effort to compare how Auron did then and now. I wish this would tell us how FFX has aged, but it could be more about four-ways, KH2, or probably some other things...but here are the comparisons anyway for whatever they're worth:

AGAINST CLOUD...
...in 2003, one-on-one: 27.8%
...in 2007, with Ryu and Marcus Fenix: 26.8%

AGAINST SEPHIROTH...
...in 2004, one-on-one: 32.3%
...in 2008, with Sonic and Kratos: 30.92%

That's not exactly what I expected! If FFX is aging better as FF7 gets older and Auron was supposed to have such a great debut in KH2...I mean, it could be a statement about four-ways, but that's not flattering to the guy.


Take this as you will.
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Prototype
Shorthand, do you speak it?!