GameFAQs Contests
Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 575
| red sox 777 | Posted 9/26/2008 1:09:42 PM | message detail |
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Frog did about as well against Samus (26.48% of Frog/Samus votes in
round 1 and 27.52% in round 2) as KOS-MOS did against Megaman (26.74%
in round 1 and 26.71% in round 2). Samus is a good deal stronger than
Megaman, so from last year's results, Frog/KOS-MOS really shouldn't be
all that close. Frog is known for almost losing matches he's supposed
to win easily, of course, but he's just as known for finding a way to
win those matches. So, Magus vs. Frog, who do you take? I think I'll go with Magus as Crash's performance here makes Magus's first round win last year look much better than it did. --- Character Battle VII --- Score: 28/32 --- T-8 (119 way) Bracket: Samus > Nightmare --- Vote: Samus |
| Master Moltar | Posted 9/26/2008 1:12:00 PM | message detail |
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Nightmare silencing the "but crash may winz teh day vote" believers, awesome. And I didn't even factor Frog's struggle with Axel into my pick for tomorrow. Frog is crazy enough as it is, so to hold him to that match when we've seen him go even with all sorts of opponents is kind of "ehhh" to me. Basically, no matter how strong Frog really is, tomorrow's match will be close with KOS-MOS, and in a close match concerning Frog...well, you know. --- Moltar Status: augh Crash/Nightmare/Raz/Samus - Bracket: Samus > Nightmare - Vote: Samus (22/32) |
| PartOfYourWorld | Posted 9/26/2008 1:13:15 PM | message detail |
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Plus, rooting against Frog is more fun. whaaaaaaaaat Rooting for (and assisting!) Frog in his heroic final hour last year was the funnest part of the contest for me! |
| Lopen | Posted 9/26/2008 1:15:03 PM | message detail |
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Frog is not a hero. Heroes don't cheat. Axel was the hero there, and the evil Frog won. --- Master Chief's quest to defeat Cloud: Round 1 - Raiden/Kain/Other Dude. Target: 48%. GAME FUEL. Believe |
| PartOfYourWorld | Posted 9/26/2008 1:16:07 PM | message detail |
| Frog was rallied to that win. There were like a dozen Board 8ers working their tails off to get him there, and as far as I know, there was no evidence of cheating... |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/26/2008 1:17:23 PM | message detail |
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Frog cheated. He was rallied, but rallying is not enough to do that. Anyone denying cheating in Frog's matches is just deluding themselves. Its just a part of who Frog is in these things. --- Bracket: http://thengamer.com/guru/bracket.php?id=10 |
| trannyscience | Posted 9/26/2008 1:20:33 PM | message detail |
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Frog got rallied to hell. he shouldn't have won the match, but it wasn't cheating or anything. (who the hell cheats for Frog?) --- xyzzy http://users.tpg.com.au/112358//85454546braidav.gif |
| PartOfYourWorld | Posted 9/26/2008 1:21:37 PM | message detail |
| Why isn't it? As I said, there were a solid group of Board 8ers working to help Frog (and that's just Board 8ers who were admitting to it at the time), and I swear I must have gotten 30 votes by myself. It's not as though he and Axel were dueling for that many votes with Samus gobbling up the majority by herself. Sure, cheating is possible, but to claim I'm "deluding myself" by thinking that legal rallying was enough is bold conjecture. |
| red sox 777 | Posted 9/26/2008 1:21:42 PM | message detail |
| Why would Frog's 400 vote second night vote
comeback be any less legitimate than Axel's 2200 vote ASV comeback? A
400 vote swing is not really that much to rally, given that it was his
best time and he would have gained some of that without any rallying.
We've seen Starcraft rally much much more than 400 (and yes, we saw
Starcraft cheat against SSBM, and it was NOTHING like SC's other
comebacks. Besides, SC then came back another 1700 votes after CJayC
caught the cheating- was that cheating too?) --- Character Battle VII --- Score: 28/32 --- T-8 (119 way) Bracket: Samus > Nightmare --- Vote: Samus |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/26/2008 1:21:46 PM | message detail |
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The same people who do every year? Its pretty obvious. --- Bracket: http://thengamer.com/guru/bracket.php?id=10 |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/26/2008 1:24:44 PM | message detail |
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Why would Frog's 400 vote second night vote comeback be any less legitimate than Axel's 2200 vote ASV comeback? Because KH characters have the most dramatic vote swings of any characters besides Master Chief, and the second night vote has been seriously diluted ever since the poll time was switched. There is no reason for Frog to go from losing updates to winning them by 30-40 in the blink of an eye unless there was some cheating involved. Really, its not a big deal. Phoenix probably cheated a little bit in his match last year, and I don't care. --- Bracket: http://thengamer.com/guru/bracket.php?id=10 |
| Lopen | Posted 9/26/2008 1:27:33 PM | message detail |
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Because the ASV vote intake is much
higher than the night vote intake. Frog's gains were much too abrupt...
he almost approached Samus once or twice I mean really. Bacon doesn't
give a damn about cheating so we can throw that out the window. Man, I thought it was pretty much agreed upon that Frog cheated to win. Guess I shouldn't be surprised... pretty sure there were only like two or three people in here that weren't creaming their pants for Frog's "rally" so of course it had to be legit to this topic. --- Master Chief's quest to defeat Cloud: Round 1 - Raiden/Kain/Other Dude. Target: 48%. GAME FUEL. Believe |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/26/2008 1:28:23 PM | message detail |
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Sure, cheating is possible, but to claim I'm "deluding myself" by thinking that legal rallying was enough is bold conjecture. I was there for the match, and the bulk of the rallying started after Frog start making 30-40 vote cuts out of nowhere. He may not have won without the rallying, but I'm almost 100% certain that there was also some cheating involved in that match. Only reason it wasn't looked at was because it was a 2 points match and Bacon just doesn't care as much as Ceej did when it comes to these things. --- Bracket: http://thengamer.com/guru/bracket.php?id=10 |
| red sox 777 | Posted 9/26/2008 1:28:48 PM | message detail |
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And let's look at the other very close Frog matches while we're at it: Frog vs. Liquid: Frog and Liquid are even more or less the whole day, with neither side getting a lead above 500 I think at any time. Frog wins by under 100, without any dramatic move in the last hour. Frog vs. Master Chief: Frog has a 2400 vote lead before the ASV, when MC (possibly helped by some linking, can't remember) comes back in 5 hours or so, and then builds his own lead of 600. Frog stalls him around 10, and then begins to comeback, catching MC at around 2 AM. Then they go back and forth for about an hour- if anyone was suspect there, it was MC, for going even with Frog during his best time. But with votals so low normally in the dead of night, it can be explained through rallying. --- Character Battle VII --- Score: 28/32 --- T-8 (119 way) Bracket: Samus > Nightmare --- Vote: Samus |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/26/2008 1:30:14 PM | message detail |
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MC vs. Frog is a special match where both sides were blatantly cheating as much as possible. --- Bracket: http://thengamer.com/guru/bracket.php?id=10 |
| Yesmar | Posted 9/26/2008 1:31:36 PM | message detail |
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Why would Frog's 400 vote second night vote comeback be any less legitimate than Axel's 2200 vote ASV comeback? Because Frog was actually increasing his votes per update during the Final Hour while everybody else dropped. Frog increased due to the ASV as well, just not as much as Axel. Not that it's necessarily cheating instead of rallying, but it does look a little suspicious. Hell, even Crono increased during the end of Mario/Crono II. --- "No matter how far we go, all we see are ruins. How can this be our future?"--Knuckles the Echidna |
| Lopen | Posted 9/26/2008 1:31:58 PM | message detail |
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MC pretty much doesn't stop increasing even with the second night vote,
riding the current of the day vote to keep increasing. Frog's second
night is not
stronger than MC's second night. Frog making a 600 vote "comeback"
against him was pretty foul. I think MC probably started stuffing too
towards the end, and good for him for doing so. --- Master Chief's quest to defeat Cloud: Round 1 - Raiden/Kain/Other Dude. Target: 48%. GAME FUEL. Believe |
| BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 9/26/2008 1:34:42 PM | message detail |
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Frog vs Phoenix Wright The two biggest rally characters ever, does the superior character win? I can't see Frog losing that match if anybody on this site has any measure of taste. |
| HaRRicH | Posted 9/26/2008 1:34:58 PM | message detail |
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I think MC probably started stuffing too towards the end, and good for him for doing so. Ya lost me on this one. If both sides were cheating, you can't condemn Frog and praise MC for it. --- NRT winners: Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow, Star Fox 64, Donkey Kong Country 2 Remember these games! |
| BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 9/26/2008 1:37:29 PM | message detail |
| Amen Harrich, same thing goes for Phoenix last year. Bomberman had that match in the bag if not for the last minute rallying. It just happens that Frog has been in lots of close matches while Phoenix has only been in 1 |
| red sox 777 | Posted 9/26/2008 1:37:44 PM | message detail |
| [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster] |
| HaRRicH | Posted 9/26/2008 1:38:22 PM | message detail |
| I'd love to see Frog and Phoenix in a match
together next year. Not that I expect them to be particularly close,
but the rallying and *****ing would be fun if they have anybody to be
close to. --- NRT winners: Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow, Star Fox 64, Donkey Kong Country 2 Remember these games! |
| Lopen | Posted 9/26/2008 1:39:22 PM | message detail |
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you can't condemn Frog and praise MC for it. I can because MC didn't start cheating until Frog already stuffed his way into closing a 600 vote gap that he realistically should not have had any business closing. MC just decided to use any means necessary once it was clear he'd be overwhelmed by Frog's cheating if he didn't. --- Master Chief's quest to defeat Cloud: Round 1 - Raiden/Kain/Other Dude. Target: 48%. GAME FUEL. Believe |
| red sox 777 | Posted 9/26/2008 1:39:32 PM | message detail |
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The only matches I've witnessed that I would call blatant cheating just
from looking at the updates are Mario/Crono II, Starcraft/SSBM, and the
Bidoof/Mudkip matches: Mario/Crono II because not only was Mario
defying all trends by coming back during his worst and Crono's best
time, he was equalling his vote intake during the mid-day; and the
others for obvious reasons. Everything else can be explained- yes
cheating is possible, but not definite. Frog's increase in intake in
the last hour is not attributable to general trends, but with Frog and
Axel having percentages that low, rallying would stand to make a huge
difference- and I may be wrong, but I don't think Frog was pulling in
anywhere near his ASV peak. --- Character Battle VII --- Score: 28/32 --- T-8 (119 way) Bracket: Samus > Nightmare --- Vote: Samus |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/26/2008 1:40:08 PM | message detail |
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and I may be wrong, but I don't think Frog was pulling in anywhereh near his ASV peak. He was matching and/or beating his ASV votals in those last updates. --- Bracket: http://thengamer.com/guru/bracket.php?id=10 |
| red sox 777 | Posted 9/26/2008 1:43:20 PM | message detail |
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It's true that MC's ASV continues right on into what's left of the
second night vote now, but this was 2004, when the poll closed at 3 AM,
before Chrono Trigger's trends became so unbalanced, and when the
second night vote actually existed. Frog's comeback against Master
Chief was rather gradual- not like what he did to Axel. Nothing in that
match cannot be explained by large amounts of rallying. --- Character Battle VII --- Score: 28/32 --- T-8 (119 way) Bracket: Samus > Nightmare --- Vote: Samus |
| HaRRicH | Posted 9/26/2008 1:43:43 PM | message detail |
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Assuming they both cheated, I don't see MC's fans being so indignified
by Frog's cheated that they cheat back just to make it fair again -- at
best, that's a excuse for people wanting MC to win by any means
necessary. If MC cheated, I think the majority of his cheat-votes would
have come from people who just wanted to see him win, not people who
felt morally opposed to Frog cheating and wanted to give the
eye-for-an-eye treatment. Let's not act like vote-stuffing was done to
honor the contest. --- NRT winners: Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow, Star Fox 64, Donkey Kong Country 2 Remember these games! |
| BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 9/26/2008 1:47:13 PM | message detail |
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It's true that MC's ASV continues right on into what's left of the
second night vote now, but this was 2004, when the poll closed at 3 AM,
before Chrono Trigger's trends became so unbalanced, and when the
second night vote actually existed. Frog's comeback against Master
Chief was rather gradual- not like what he did to Axel. Nothing in that
match cannot be explained by large amounts of rallying. There was no ASV in 2004. That was back when the Summer contests were actually in the summer. That's why the trends were more gradual. If you look at any other match from that time with characters that have similar trends, you'll see that most of Frog's comeback was legitimate. Hell, just look at Mega Man/Sonic for a good comparison. |
| Yesmar | Posted 9/26/2008 1:47:42 PM | message detail |
| I think CT characters have always had pretty shaky
night votes from 4-6AM, at least by 2005. Look at Frog/Riku,
Crono/Zidane, and Crono/Vercetti. Squall/Geno implies that this is probably due to the European Morning Vote most likely, since the trend repeats itself there. --- "No matter how far we go, all we see are ruins. How can this be our future?"--Knuckles the Echidna |
| red sox 777 | Posted 9/26/2008 1:47:53 PM | message detail |
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SC2K4 began in August, Frog/MC was held in September. --- Character Battle VII --- Score: 28/32 --- T-8 (119 way) Bracket: Samus > Nightmare --- Vote: Samus |
| Samurai7 | Posted 9/26/2008 1:47:53 PM | message detail |
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Lopen You're a hypocrite. --- Conformity and rebellion...both ways are simple-minded--they are only for people who cannot cope with contradiction and ambiguity. |
| trannyscience | Posted 9/26/2008 1:48:22 PM | message detail |
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http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/images/poll_graph.php?matchnum=2865&type=1&seconds=60&max=0 woo --- xyzzy http://users.tpg.com.au/112358//85454546braidav.gif |
| voltch | Posted 9/26/2008 1:48:41 PM | message detail |
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Lopen a hypocrite? no way. --- Del Boy:He who dares, wins! |
| Yesmar | Posted 9/26/2008 1:48:48 PM | message detail |
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There was no ASV in 2004. That was back when the Summer contests
were actually in the summer. That's why the trends were more gradual.
If you look at any other match from that time with characters that have
similar trends, you'll see that most of Frog's comeback was legitimate.
Hell, just look at Mega Man/Sonic for a good comparison. Frog/MC was held in September. --- "No matter how far we go, all we see are ruins. How can this be our future?"--Knuckles the Echidna |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/26/2008 1:49:19 PM | message detail |
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I can't help but laugh at that graph. I mean just look at it. >_> --- Bracket: http://thengamer.com/guru/bracket.php?id=10 |
| Lopen | Posted 9/26/2008 1:49:30 PM | message detail |
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Let's not act like vote-stuffing was done to honor the contest. Not at all. That's not what I was trying to imply. What I will act like Master Chief would've easily won were it not for vote stuffing on Frog's side. Frog stuffed a ton, then Master Chief started stuffing once Frog got close. It's true that MC's ASV continues right on into what's left of the second night vote now, but this was 2004, when the poll closed at 3 AM, http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/drupal/node/22?matchnum=2118&num=2 So was this match against a Chrono Trigger character. While it's true that Chief definitely slows down a bit more than he does now because of the different start time, he doesn't collapse, his second night even then is still good enough to beat pretty much anybody. He's still making small gains here. --- Master Chief's quest to defeat Cloud: Round 1 - Raiden/Kain/Other Dude. Target: 48%. GAME FUEL. Believe |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/26/2008 1:50:27 PM | message detail |
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http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/images/poll_graph.php?matchnum=3251&type=1&seconds=60&max=0 oh lord --- Bracket: http://thengamer.com/guru/bracket.php?id=10 |
| Lopen | Posted 9/26/2008 1:54:11 PM | message detail |
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And what am I a hypocrite about? That I condone the use of cheating if
the other side starts it? That's not hypocracy, that's having a lower
code of "honor" about cheating than good people, that's all. --- Master Chief's quest to defeat Cloud: Round 1 - Raiden/Kain/Other Dude. Target: 48%. GAME FUEL. Believe |
| red sox 777 | Posted 9/26/2008 1:56:54 PM | message detail |
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Indeed, but: 1. CT's trends changed quite a bit from 2004 to 2005- Crono lost a lot more with the day vote to Mario in 2005. 2. Frog and Magus have always been a little better than Crono at the night vote. 3. Frog's gains on MC really weren't very fast.....600 votes in 4 hours. --- Character Battle VII --- Score: 28/32 --- T-8 (119 way) Bracket: Samus > Nightmare --- Vote: Samus |
| trannyscience | Posted 9/26/2008 2:03:23 PM | message detail |
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I like how the day vote is equal here. Crash has gone down a little bit, but not much at all. four good day votes here. --- xyzzy http://users.tpg.com.au/112358//85454546braidav.gif |
| red sox 777 | Posted 9/26/2008 2:05:05 PM | message detail |
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Ok, we have evidence for Master Chief linking here: http://nikon.bungie.org/news.html?item=10455 --- Character Battle VII --- Score: 28/32 --- T-8 (119 way) Bracket: Samus > Nightmare --- Vote: Samus |
| Lopen | Posted 9/26/2008 2:06:39 PM | message detail |
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They weren't fast because a lot of the stuffing was just to slow Master
Chief's gains, and the stuffers had some common sense and decided that
maybe stuffing 50 votes in an update would cause some alarms to go off
and/or didn't have the capabilities to stuff 50 votes in an update. Also, Frog didn't gain 600 in four hours, he gained 600 in 2.5 hours (the earlier 2.5 hours when Master Chief's momentum would be even stronger) and then they started hovering around 0 for 1.5 hours. --- Master Chief's quest to defeat Cloud: Round 1 - Raiden/Kain/Other Dude. Target: 48%. GAME FUEL. Believe |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 9/26/2008 2:15:19 PM | message detail |
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who the hell cheats for Frog? Who the hell cheats for Kefka? Frog (and Liquid, to be fair) cheated substantially more than their opponents last year. It's like saying Mario/Crono II was legit to argue otherwise. --- turnturnturn your brain in turnturnturn your brain in |
| red sox 777 | Posted 9/26/2008 2:16:42 PM | message detail |
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Frog's vote intake from midnight to 1 AM: 1289 Frog's vote intake from 4 PM to 5 PM (height of ASV): 2827 I'm not seeing any substantive evidence for cheating here. As for Frog/Axel: Frog's intake from 11 PM to midnight: 1049 Frog's intake from 4 PM to 5 PM: 1217 Frog still took in more votes during the ASV. True, he was only a couple hundred short, but when you're at 18%, it doesn't take all that much rallying to dramatically affect your vote intake. --- Character Battle VII --- Score: 28/32 --- T-8 (119 way) Bracket: Samus > Nightmare --- Vote: Samus |
| trannyscience | Posted 9/26/2008 2:18:00 PM | message detail |
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that's the most slanted statistic I've seen today, and that's
impressive given that we're in an argument about Master Chief with
Lopen. just look at the graph and tell me that Frog's comeback was
legit strength. it wasn't. --- xyzzy http://users.tpg.com.au/112358//85454546braidav.gif |
| red sox 777 | Posted 9/26/2008 2:22:23 PM | message detail |
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You mean against Master Chief? It looks to me Frog did fall off a lot
at night, MC just fell off more.....considering how different trends
were in 2004, it doesn't look that abnormal. And yes, there was plenty
of rallying in that match on both sides, but I see no evidence Frog
rallied more, and no evidence either side cheated. Sure, it's possible,
but until I see some more concrete proof, I'm going to assume cheating
isn't widely prevalent, and enjoy these contests more. If you mean the
Axel match, yes, it's not possible with normal trends, but a few
hundred votes is not beyond the potential of rallying. --- Character Battle VII --- Score: 28/32 --- T-8 (119 way) Bracket: Samus > Nightmare --- Vote: Samus |
| Lopen | Posted 9/26/2008 2:22:49 PM | message detail |
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that's the most slanted statistic I've seen today, and that's
impressive given that we're in an argument about Master Chief with Lopen Haha... awesome. But really, the fact that you're using that statistic in arguing the LAST hour of MC/Frog, the hour pretty much everyone agrees was obviously nonstop back and forth stuffing, shows that your argument is pretty ridiculous. --- Master Chief's quest to defeat Cloud: Round 1 - Raiden/Kain/Other Dude. Target: 48%. GAME FUEL. Believe |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/26/2008 2:23:58 PM | message detail |
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Okay. Frog/MC may have not been chetaing (until the very end, anyway, which was both sides). Frog/Axel had almost definite cheating in Frog's favor. Are we all clear? --- Bracket: http://thengamer.com/guru/bracket.php?id=10 |
| red sox 777 | Posted 9/26/2008 2:25:44 PM | message detail |
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Uh, that's NOT the last hour. That's the third to last hour, when Frog made some of his biggest gains on MC. --- Character Battle VII --- Score: 28/32 --- T-8 (119 way) Bracket: Samus > Nightmare --- Vote: Samus |
| HeroicTronBonne | Posted 9/26/2008 2:26:51 PM | message detail |
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in b4 Frog > Ganondorf guys --- The Straight Up G WWEGSB Hardcore Legend and Board 8er Masa/Hiko |
