GameFAQs Contests
Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 561
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 9/8/2008 6:09:59 AM | message detail |
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well he wouldnt have beaten Ness before Brawl, so it's not all that crazy. --- “Back in my day we used to actually play our videogames instead of watching them”- Vivi0198 |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 9/8/2008 6:12:14 AM | message detail |
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No need for Brawl fear with Wario. Seriously, he's got that indifferent factor like Peach does. --- Squall Leonhart's Path to the CBVII Championship Round 1: CATS, Nathan Drake, Yoshi |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 6:13:19 AM | message detail |
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Yes, it is crazy. http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/drupal/node/22?matchnum=2443&num=2 Marth managed to be this strong based on Melee alone. http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/drupal/node/22?matchnum=2893&num=4 Ike based on Path of Radience alone. Really, Ike would only have to get 1/3 of the strength Marth gets from SSB to beat Ness. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 9/8/2008 6:15:30 AM | message detail |
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Ha, Ike isn't operating on Fire Emblem alone. He wouldn't have been that strong without the Brawl announcement. --- Squall Leonhart's Path to the CBVII Championship Round 1: CATS, Nathan Drake, Yoshi |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 9/8/2008 6:15:47 AM | message detail |
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so .. what would you expect Marth to get on Ness SFF aside? --- “Back in my day we used to actually play our videogames instead of watching them”- Vivi0198 |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 6:16:38 AM | message detail |
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so .. what would you expect Marth to get on Ness SFF aside? Uh...43%? Maybe more, Marth is much more popular than Ness in SSB. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 6:17:46 AM | message detail |
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Ha, Ike isn't operating on Fire Emblem alone. He wouldn't have been that strong without the Brawl announcement. A little, yeah, but it isn't as if Fire Emblem is worthless. http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/drupal/node/22?matchnum=2443&num=2 It's not the strongest series, but much more popular than Earthbound at least. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 9/8/2008 6:18:02 AM | message detail |
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.. um, you do realize that puts Marth at Knuckles/Tidus level, right? :\ assuming you meant 57% --- “Back in my day we used to actually play our videogames instead of watching them”- Vivi0198 |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 6:18:50 AM | message detail |
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Ness 57% Marth 43% I thought what I meant was obvious. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 9/8/2008 6:19:27 AM | message detail |
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then if Marth would only manage 43% he's below fodder. --- “Back in my day we used to actually play our videogames instead of watching them”- Vivi0198 |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 6:20:00 AM | message detail |
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I just guessed something off the top of my head. Stop nitpicking. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 9/8/2008 6:20:50 AM | message detail |
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point is, i dont think Ike > Ness is settled or anything. i
personally think it's possible because of appeal but it's also possible
Ness' longetivity could come in. but they certainly arent far apart indirectly. --- “Back in my day we used to actually play our videogames instead of watching them”- Vivi0198 |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 6:21:45 AM | message detail |
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It is settled. For Ike to lose to Ness he
would have to get the lowest possible increase from SSB any character
has gotten in any of these contest, by far. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 9/8/2008 6:23:13 AM | message detail |
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how would you know it's the 'lowest possible increase'? we dont know
how he'd do one on one. but losing to Duke Nukem sure puts you around
the fodder line as far as i'm concerned and Ness got 55% on Jak who's
around that area. so basically he'd have a pretty hefty boost to even be equal with Ness. he cant be miles away or anything like that. --- “Back in my day we used to actually play our videogames instead of watching them”- Vivi0198 |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 6:24:38 AM | message detail |
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He went equal with Gordon Freeman, not Duke Nukem. http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/drupal/node/22?matchnum=2910&num=4 Or did you forget that match? Duke's result in the first round is not to be trusted much. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 9/8/2008 6:25:25 AM | message detail |
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but you cant take much from it. you couldnt even argue Ike = Ness with just that match alone. --- “Back in my day we used to actually play our videogames instead of watching them”- Vivi0198 |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 6:26:53 AM | message detail |
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You wouldn't have to! Or are you ignoring SUPER SMASH BROTHERS BRAWL,
the game which Ike is probably the most popular casual pick in? Ike was already relatively close to Ness last year. This just puts him way over the edge. Fire Emblem>Earthbound Ike in SSB>Ness in SSB Therefore, FE+Ike in SBB>Earthbound + Ness in SSB. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| MyWorldIsCrono | Posted 9/8/2008 6:28:39 AM | message detail |
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Gordan Freeman never wins except against obscure b8 fan favorites --- Married to Heroic Palmer! HeroicTronBonne - "Albion, I would Love to do an account bet with you over Ike/Arthas. " Don't forget! |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 9/8/2008 6:30:03 AM | message detail |
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Ike was already relatively close to Ness last year. how would you know this? Liquid Snake and Alucard sounds like much tougher competition than Duke Nukem and Gordon Freeman. Fire Emblem>Earthbound i think you mean two FE games; not the series. arguably FE9 and 10 = EB but i wouldnt put them too far apart in popularity. EB as a game is being underestimated. Ike in SSB>Ness in SSB i hope you mean appeal, but there's still a chance longevity beats newbie guy. it's not something i would bank on, but it's not something i'd throw out completely either. --- “Back in my day we used to actually play our videogames instead of watching them”- Vivi0198 |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 6:34:29 AM | message detail |
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how would you know this? Liquid Snake and Alucard sounds like much tougher competition than Duke Nukem and Gordon Freeman. Gordon Freeman (2006c) has a strength of 25.36 against Base Link. Alucard (2006c) has a strength of 24.69 against Base Link. Gordon Freeman 51.32% 61,151 Alucard 48.68% 58,003 I would take Alucard to easily win that match, but it's not like Gordon isn't decent competition these days. i think you mean two FE games; not the series. arguably FE9 and 10 = EB but i wouldnt put them too far apart in popularity. EB as a game is being underestimated. In 2k4, EarthBound lost to Doom. Doom! And badly. And this was back when the votals were lower, so EB's dedicated fanbase would've counted for more. I love EB to death, but it's a joke as far as contests go. i hope you mean appeal, but there's still a chance longevity beats newbie guy. it's not something i would bank on, but it's not something i'd throw out completely either. Captain Falcon has been in every SSB game. Everyone likes him, even the casuals. Marth is stronger. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 9/8/2008 6:38:00 AM | message detail |
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Gordon Freeman (2006c) has a strength of 25.36 against Base Link. Alucard (2006c) has a strength of 24.69 against Base Link. Gordon Freeman 51.32% 61,151 Alucard 48.68% 58,003 I would take Alucard to easily win that match, but it's not like Gordon isn't decent competition these days. well, looking at later matches I'd say Ness would have beasted in Ike's spot. In 2k4, EarthBound lost to Doom. Doom! And badly. And this was back when the votals were lower, so EB's dedicated fanbase would've counted for more. I love EB to death, but it's a joke as far as contests go. .. so losing to Doom is a bad thing or something? Doom is not pushover since it equaled Mortal Kombat. Captain Falcon has been in every SSB game. Everyone likes him, even the casuals. Marth is stronger. and there's no concrete evidence of this. he could be equal to him for all we know but only does well in this format. --- “Back in my day we used to actually play our videogames instead of watching them”- Vivi0198 |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 6:40:54 AM | message detail |
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well, looking at later matches I'd say Ness would have beasted in Ike's spot. Won? Yes. 'Beasted'? Ridiculous. There's nothing Ness has ever done that would suggest that. .. so losing to Doom is a bad thing or something? Doom is not pushover since it equaled Mortal Kombat. This is GameFAQs. Yes, badly losing to Doom is bad. and there's no concrete evidence of this. he could be equal to him for all we know but only does well in this format. http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/drupal/node/22?matchnum=2872&num=4 http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/drupal/node/22?matchnum=2527&num=2 http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/drupal/node/22?matchnum=2888&num=4 I'm not going to debate with you anymore until you start using stats and reasonings instead of assumptions. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| red sox 777 | Posted 9/8/2008 6:43:19 AM | message detail |
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For what it's worth, a Marth player won the vast majority of major
Melee tournaments. I have difficulty seeing Ike > Ness, because the
Earthbound fanbase, while small, does exist, and Ike has only been in
one Smash game, Brawl, which is arguably weaker than Melee, at least
indirectly, currently. As far as Brawl vs. Melee goes, my reasoning is
that Melee probably still has higher playership thanks to being out
longer and higher sales, and virtually all Brawl fans at least like
Melee, while a large part of the competitive Melee community detests
Brawl. --- "Fate has no forgiveness for those who dare stand against it." ~Chrono Cross Game Over Screen |
| charmander6000 | Posted 9/8/2008 6:54:19 AM | message detail |
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I would take Ness to win in this format because of Earthbound fans though I would predict Ike would win one on one. --- Board 8 BOP: http://www.freewebs.com/charmander6000/CB7%20BOP.xls Character Battle 2008: Points 0/0 |
| transience | Posted 9/8/2008 6:57:18 AM | message detail |
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while it's true that there's some weird divide between Brawl and Melee
fans, that doesn't carry over to the characters. they still like the
dudes. --- xyzzy "Man...tranny gets bored, the rest of us suffer." -satai |
| HaRRicH | Posted 9/8/2008 7:11:29 AM | message detail |
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Ike was already relatively close to Ness last year. This just puts him way over the edge. Ike was NOT close to Ness last year. You've already mentioned that you would take Alucard > Gordon easily, but let's not forget that Liquid > Duke and especially Zidane >> Guybrush are easy to call. Throw in that Duke and Gordon were likely hurting each other due to both going for the elusive PC-FPS demographic, a much more specific group than PS1-characters like Ness faced, and it's clear Ness did better. The only room for argument is noting Ike had a higher percentage in his match, which can be marked up to Guybrush sucking while Zidane held his own. SSBB will definitely help him though, yes, but let's get facts clear. Fire Emblem>Earthbound The series? Well, yeah, probably, but no FE game -- even the ones Ike is in -- will get 40% on Doom or get #37 on the Top 100 List. Ike in SSB>Ness in SSB Yes, though I don't think Ness being a fan-favorite in SSB or starting in SSBM should be forgotten here. Also, to hit the argument you were originally making (Arthas/Ike)...not only is Pikachu an original SSB-character, but he is also somebody who the casuals like to play with. Pokemon is a famous handheld RPG series with some success on consoles, while FE is a niche-but-growing handheld strategy-RPG with one successful game on the Wii. Pikachu is likely going to mess with Ike more than you give credit for, while Arthas can compete with if not beat Ike in this format (and would likely beat KOS-MOS one-on-one if not better). The new WoW-expansion coming soon doesn't hurt either. Therefore, FE+Ike in SBB>Earthbound + Ness in SSB. VERY debatable. EB > any FE game and Ness has SSB/M while sharing SSBB with Ike. After their matches last year, it is very presumptuous to assume Ike clearly beats Ness. --- NRT winners: Pokemon R/B/Y, Star Fox 64, Donkey Kong Country 2 http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=44623118 |
| transience | Posted 9/8/2008 7:14:39 AM | message detail |
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I don't know how much a fan-favourite in SSB matters. go back to that VC poll for more proof of that. --- xyzzy "Man...tranny gets bored, the rest of us suffer." -satai |
| HaRRicH | Posted 9/8/2008 7:20:09 AM | message detail |
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To be fair, SSB was against two of the greatest multi-player
experiences (GE and PD) and a LoZ game simultaneously, not to mention
the other four games. I thought SSB would hold up a little better, but
it's not TOO shocking since SSB originally wasn't very well-received
here according to those old dusty polls we don't like to talk about. --- NRT winners: Pokemon R/B/Y, Star Fox 64, Donkey Kong Country 2 http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=44623118 |
| transience | Posted 9/8/2008 7:21:04 AM | message detail |
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yeah, that's the point. being a fave in Brawl means a wee bit more than being one in the original. --- xyzzy "Man...tranny gets bored, the rest of us suffer." -satai |
| HaRRicH | Posted 9/8/2008 7:23:34 AM | message detail |
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I do see what you're saying though and it is worth questioning. I do
think it justifies and solidifies his spot in the SSB series though.
His success also allowed Lucas into SSBB (and I think Lucas was
supposed to be in SSBM, too?), so I think it's not to be forgotten.
Perhaps not too important, but I assume many long-time SSB fans have
his back. --- NRT winners: Pokemon R/B/Y, Star Fox 64, Donkey Kong Country 2 http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=44623118 |
| transience | Posted 9/8/2008 7:29:30 AM | message detail |
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well, this isn't necessarily Ike vs. Ness heads up.. this is talking
about who's stronger indirectly. I don't claim to know the answer to
this after the Wario/Ness disaster - whoops on us for that one --- xyzzy "Man...tranny gets bored, the rest of us suffer." -satai |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 7:30:45 AM | message detail |
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His success also allowed Lucas into SSBB (and I think Lucas was supposed to be in SSBM, too?) Uh...no offense, but do you know anything about Lucas? >_> --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| MnMZero | Posted 9/8/2008 7:32:16 AM | message detail |
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I just noticed... HaRRicH argues for Ness a lot. --- Proud Supporter of Zero |
| MnMZero | Posted 9/8/2008 7:33:09 AM | message detail |
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In fact, I remember having this exact same debate only with Captain Falcon. <_< --- Proud Supporter of Zero |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 7:33:24 AM | message detail |
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Anyway, Lucas got into Brawl because he was the main character of
Mother 3, the sequel to Earthbound. Which was released in 2006. It didn't really have anything to do with Ness. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| transience | Posted 9/8/2008 7:36:12 AM | message detail |
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HRRH has used Ness in more arguments over the years than I can even count. --- xyzzy "Man...tranny gets bored, the rest of us suffer." -satai |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 7:36:20 AM | message detail |
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And let me put my argument in a different perspective: Concerning ONLY SSB strength, who would you take? Ike or Jigglypuff? --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 9/8/2008 7:42:29 AM | message detail |
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I'm not going to debate with you anymore until you start using stats and reasonings instead of assumptions. what the **** are you talking about. 07 stats are about as worthwhile as my personal instincts. you're crazy if you think Ike's competition was stronger than Ness'; i dont need the stats to do that. you cant just discredit my argument because i dont have numbers. i have LOGIC. --- “Back in my day we used to actually play our videogames instead of watching them”- Vivi0198 |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 7:44:21 AM | message detail |
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I have used both logic and numbers. You have used only logic. The superior debator is clear to all! Seriously though, your personal assumptions are NOT as good as empirical data, even if it is 2k7 data. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| transience | Posted 9/8/2008 7:45:05 AM | message detail |
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actually, your stat arguments are pretty bad. :) --- xyzzy "Man...tranny gets bored, the rest of us suffer." -satai |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 7:46:15 AM | message detail |
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Better than no stat arguing at all. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 9/8/2008 7:46:29 AM | message detail |
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what were my assumptions then? i mean, you have NOTHING that says Ike's
games are any stronger than EB. NOTHING at all. that's the only
assumption i've seen in this whole debate. everything else is just "look at this!!11!" i dont know when the stats topic will stop clinging to 07 stats as if it's 100% correct. i dont even trust those things. --- “Back in my day we used to actually play our videogames instead of watching them”- Vivi0198 |
| MnMZero | Posted 9/8/2008 7:47:50 AM | message detail |
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I haven't even looked at them... --- Proud Supporter of Zero |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 7:48:38 AM | message detail |
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what were my assumptions then? i mean, you have NOTHING that says
Ike's games are any stronger than EB. NOTHING at all. that's the only
assumption i've seen in this whole debate. Doom 49291 57.04% 7 Earthbound 37127 42.96% http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/drupal/node/22?matchnum=2443&num=2 --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 9/8/2008 7:53:56 AM | message detail |
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so where's the evidence that either of Ike's games would do as well as EB in 04? --- “Back in my day we used to actually play our videogames instead of watching them”- Vivi0198 |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 7:57:00 AM | message detail |
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...Right there? It isn't 100% solid, but ignoring that would just be stupid. At least say that FE overperformed due to the sprite round. Or that FE as a whole is much stronger than any one FE game. Or that EB has become a little more popular since 2k4 due to Ness getting more Brawl exposure or I don't know SOMETHING. Don't just completely dismiss what I put out and then say 'find something else'. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 9/8/2008 7:58:10 AM | message detail |
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are you seriously accounting a series match to justify one game out of the whole series? if that isnt an assumption i dont know what is. --- “Back in my day we used to actually play our videogames instead of watching them”- Vivi0198 |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 8:00:33 AM | message detail |
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Are you seriously discounting a series match when the parallel to
series : game really isn't that far off except in extreme cases like
Castlevania? Like I said, it's not 100% perfect, but it's much more impressive than anything EB has ever accomplished. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 9/8/2008 8:03:11 AM | message detail |
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that's because it is a series vs another series it's not FE9 vs Metal Gear Solid (which would get KILLED and you know it). --- “Back in my day we used to actually play our videogames instead of watching them”- Vivi0198 |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 9/8/2008 8:04:48 AM | message detail |
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And it would still do better than EB, according to the previous match. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
