GameFAQs Contests
Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 559
| voltch | Posted 8/31/2008 9:04:06 AM | message detail |
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doods,there's a potential Link/Mario/Snake/Cloud Final. we all know of FFVII/MGS SFF,but now that he's a brawler who's to say Snake won't RSFF link,i mean he keeps his MGS hardcore support but after being so good in brawl he might steal some of Link's brawl support. Add in Mario(no sephiroth but still a beast) and Link has it though. --- Del Boy:He who dares, wins! |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 8/31/2008 9:04:37 AM | message detail |
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FACT or FICTION: Zack will beat Cecil by 4+%. Fact, I guess. FACT or FICTION: Mewtwo will SFF Ness more than Mewtwo/Ness will SFF Pac-Man. Fiction. Mewtwo won't be taking much SSB support as has been explained. FACT or FICTION: Liquid Snake stands a reasonable chance to upset Bowser/Luigi. Luigi? Fiction. Bowser? Fact, although I still put it in the longshot category. FACT or FICTION: Mega Man X > Mega Man. Fiction. MM is too all-encompasing. FACT or FICTION: Link will SFF Shadow. Fact, and I don't see how anyone is picking Fiction. Nintendo has an inherent advantage over Sonic, and almost all of Shadow's strength comes from a Gamecube game. It may vary from a little to a lot, but either way there's going to be some SFF. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| therealmnm | Posted 8/31/2008 9:24:47 AM | message detail |
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Back to Bowser, I really don't see why people are counting him out just
because Luigi is in the poll. Even though it was 5 years ago, Bowser did
take out Yoshi one-on-one, who took out Luigi one-on-one. Someone said
earlier that Toad being in the poll "wrecked" Bowser. How so? Bowser obliterated
Toad in that poll, and seeing how Bowser didn't improve much with both
Toad and Mewtwo being absent in the next poll, I don't think Bowser was
too far from his standard strength in these four-way polls. Sure, you can point to the most recent "favorite Mario character" poll, but even then, that's a poll with all of the Mario characters in the poll. We've already seen that Mario himself significantly affects Bowser as it is. Just because other characters did better than Bowser with Mario in the poll, it doesn't necessarily mean that they would edge out Bowser sans Mario. Especially if there's only going to be one other Mario character in the poll. Again, we already saw Bowser obliterate Toad. I'm thinking Luigi would be doing good by simply beating Bowser. I don't see him SFFing him enough so Liquid Snake could beat him. Bowser is not the Zelda of the Mario series... --- Currently playing: GTAIV, SSBB, MP3, Apollo Justice, FFIVDS, Dracula X |
| charmander6000 | Posted 8/31/2008 9:28:34 AM | message detail |
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Luigi and Bowser will affect each other, but it'll be like Luigi/Ganondorf where both characters are weakened. --- Character Battle 2008: Points 0/0 |
| therealmnm | Posted 8/31/2008 9:33:06 AM | message detail |
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And I already touched on that. In a poll with Bowser, Luigi, Liquid Snake, and probably Phoenix Wright, there's more than enough percentage to go around to allow Bowser and Luigi to get by even with LFF. --- Currently playing: GTAIV, SSBB, MP3, Apollo Justice, FFIVDS, Dracula X |
| BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 8/31/2008 9:36:24 AM | message detail |
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The ultimate example of just how much overlap exists between strong
characters is last year's finals: no one here would dare take L-Block
> Link one-on-one, and yet L won the 4-way poll thanks to Cloud and
Snake. What if we replaced Cloud and Snake with Mario and Samus, two
characters who have a closer overlap with Link? Link would garner the
majority of the Nintendo votes, and take first, right? Cloud and Snake
thus took away more votes from Link than Mario and Samus would. And
before someone says that is just because Cloud is stronger than those
two- how is Cloud stronger? If he's stronger because he brings in more
of his own voters to the poll, then Link will still get the same number
of votes and still beat L-Block. If he's stronger because he's able to
win over a good portion of the shared fanbase between Link/Cloud, then
yes, Link/Cloud LFF is more significant than Link/Mario/Samus LFF, at
least from Link's point of view. Are you stunned? This is the most wrong statement I've seen in theses topics yet. Had Mario and Samus been in the finals instead of Cloud/Snake, you would have had less votals, and all 3 would look weaker in relation to L. SFF matches are where there is a considerable overlap between 2 characters either due to being in the same game, same series or same genre. When you have something like Squall/Tidus for example, 2 Final Fantasy leads, of course there will be considerable overlap, and the results are heavily skewed for the more likable character. Where as other people who voted for Squall in this match would support Tidus in other situations. Link and Cloud share 2 very different fanbases, even though for the most part, voters know both of them. |
| BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 8/31/2008 9:37:20 AM | message detail |
| Like I said, if Mudkip couldn't do it with Luigi/Ganondorf, the weaker Liquid Snake won't be able to do it even though the overlap is slightly higher with Luigi/Bowser. |
| charmander6000 | Posted 8/31/2008 9:38:21 AM | message detail |
| I agree with you. Also the only way I see LS
advancing is if he gets first. Bowser/Luigi will probably be so close
that there won't be a lot of room for Liquid to squeeze in between. --- Character Battle 2008: Points 0/0 |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 8/31/2008 9:38:27 AM | message detail |
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The problem is that Bowser has looked like crap for two years running,
and his margins over Yoshi and Luigi weren't so dominating that either
of them winning straight up would be entirely
out of the question. Consider this - Bowser > Yoshi and Yoshi >
Luigi came in 2003 and 2004, respectively, when the site had just
undergone a pretty significant shift toward Square to the tune of
results such as Cloud beating Link, Aeris coming close to Sonic, Tidus
coming close to Ganondorf, and Crono beating Mario at least
once. From 2005 on, however, we've seen a prodigious shift toward
Nintendo that shows only the faintest signs of abating. It's not
entirely preposterous to suggest that the order of popularity WITHIN
the Nintendo fanbase goes Luigi > Yoshi > Bowser or something to
that extent, while the order of popularity WITHOUT goes Bowser >
Yoshi > Luigi. A shift in the site's demographics that nets more
Nintendo fans in turn then change a result that didn't look like it
could be changed. This is probably overcomplication taken to the nth degree, though... we could easily just say that "things have changed" and be done with it, but I like to have a theory for anything I see. For what it's worth I still take Bowser > Yoshi > Luigi. --- turnturnturn your brain in turnturnturn your brain in |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 8/31/2008 9:40:24 AM | message detail |
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And I already touched on that. In a poll with Bowser, Luigi, Liquid
Snake, and probably Phoenix Wright, there's more than enough percentage
to go around to allow Bowser and Luigi to get by even with LFF. To touch on one very blunt note, I heard you make this EXACT appeal last year in multiple matches. I don't think it came through once. --- turnturnturn your brain in turnturnturn your brain in |
| voltch | Posted 8/31/2008 9:40:35 AM | message detail |
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Mario's bro or his Nemesis,by that logic who should the fans side with. --- Del Boy:He who dares, wins! |
| therealmnm | Posted 8/31/2008 9:42:57 AM | message detail |
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But still, what I was saying was that there's no reason why Luigi
should be SFFing Bowser enough to let Liquid Snake beat him (or Bowser
doing that to Luigi). Bowser's performance against Toad was last year.
If Bowser was really a chump, Toad would have done a lot
better at his expense. The overall Mario tiering might has shifted a
bit and Yoshi, Luigi, and Bowser might all be right there, but again
nothing has suggested that Bowser would be on the chump end of SFF by
any single Mario character outside of Mario himself. So like I said,
Luigi might edge out Bowser, but he's not SFFing him. And really, MGS4 be damned, this is a Liquid Snake who barely got by Ness. Do people think that either Bowser or Luigi will be SFF'd down to Ness's level? --- Currently playing: GTAIV, SSBB, MP3, Apollo Justice, FFIVDS, Dracula X |
| RPGuy96 | Posted 8/31/2008 9:48:44 AM | message detail |
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To touch on one very blunt note, I heard you make this EXACT appeal
last year in multiple matches. I don't think it came through once. Sure it did, when the third character was a lot weaker than the two being LFF'd. For example, Luigi/Ganondorf/Yuna. Or Squall/Aerith/Akuma. Or Squall/Sora/Subby. Or Meta-Knight/Peach/CATS. Guess who's a lot weaker than Luigi and Bowser? Liquid Snake. --- Mustache...and green... |
| therealmnm | Posted 8/31/2008 9:52:29 AM | message detail |
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RPGuy beat me to it again. He's been a lot quicker on the draw than me
as of late. And yeah, I was pulling out those same matches. It's one
thing if there's a third character who's near the same strength as the
first two. But I don't recall there being any matches were someone
significantly weaker got through. Sure there were some scares (Akuma,
Mudkipz), but again I don't think Liquid Snake who could barely get
past Ness will be putting much scare into Bowser and Luigi, especially post SMG, Brawl, Mario Kart, etc. --- Currently playing: GTAIV, SSBB, MP3, Apollo Justice, FFIVDS, Dracula X |
| RPGuy96 | Posted 8/31/2008 9:56:17 AM | message detail |
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And quite frankly, I thought I was doing the whole Luigi fanboy thing
when I picked him over Bowser in that match. I'm surprised that Luigi
in first is such a popular pick. --- Mustache...and green... |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 8/31/2008 9:57:04 AM | message detail |
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He didn't make that appeal during any of those matches. That was, of course, because he didn't need to - in terms of a threshold of strength, there's always going to be a point where there just isn't enough SFF to go around. That being said, y'know who's a lot weaker than Dante and Leon Kennedy? Pikachu. --- turnturnturn your brain in turnturnturn your brain in |
| red sox 777 | Posted 8/31/2008 9:57:36 AM | message detail |
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There may be as many people on this site that know Pac-Man than
there are who know Squall. They are thus equally known and you could
expect them to be about as popular. Yet Squall is more popular because
he is more likeable, hence has a better ability to actually get the
people who know him to vote for him. The ability to win a shared
fanbase is indeed a part of one's integral strength, hence it bears no
relation whatsoever to the term "SFF". Squall doesn't "SFF" Pac-Man.
He's just more awesome. If SFF (Same Fanbase Factor) doesn't indicate strength in winning shared fanbases, what does it mean? In case 1, there is a 49% overlap between the 2 characters, yet this is a natural overlap and the character that is more popular (the one with the better ability to get the voters that know him to actually vote for him) will take most of this shared percentage. The results will go as expected and the characters will have performed as their previous popularity levels would indicate. In case 2, despite both Cid and Red being equally known as characters A and B, the overlap is much greater. The results may be a bit weird depending on the fanbase's preference towards Cid/Red. One of the characters may come out looking disproportionately weak, which otherwise says nothing about his ability to win overlapping votes. I know that sounds like an icecold contradiction, but it's not. You might expect Cid and Red to perform similarly against Link, for example, but against each other Cid might go 60-40. Of course, Cid and Red have more overlap with each other, so naturally the shared fanbase will become more important. Let's say Cid wins 60% of the shared fanbase against Red, they both have 70% of the site as fans, and they have 100% overlap (all Cid fans are Red XIII fans, all Red fans are Cid fans). Now let's introduce another character, let's say Mewtwo, who we're going to pretend also has 70% of the site as fans, and also gets 40% of the shared votes against Cid, and has no special relation to FFVII at all- therefore the overlap follows your case 1. We will thus have: Shared Fanbase: 49% Cid Only: 21% Mewtwo Only: 21% Neither: 9% Cid wins 100% of his 21%, Mewtwo wins 100% of his 21%, and Cid wins 60% of the shared votes. Fans of neither do not vote. Cid ends up with a little over 55% of the votes in this match. Now let's look at Cid and Red XIII: Shared Fanbase: 70% Cid Only: 0% Red Only: 0% Neither: 30% Now Cid wins with 60%. In this example, Mewtwo and Red were equals in their strength at winning shared fans, but Cid won by more against Red because their overlap accounted for more of the total votes. So how would Cid and Red fare against Link? If Cid truly would win more of the shared votes between Cid/Red, then it is likely enough that there are more people with the order Cid > Link > Red XIII than there are people with the order Red > Link > Cid. This might not be the case, but if Link has no special connections to either of these characters, then we would expect this. The result would then be that Cid would do a little better than Red against Link- the difference would be much smaller than in their direct match, because the people who would either vote Link over both FFVII characters, or vote either of them over Link, do not matter, insofar as they do not contribute the gap between Cid and Red when measured through Link. --- "Fate has no forgiveness for those who dare stand against it." ~Chrono Cross Game Over Screen |
| red sox 777 | Posted 8/31/2008 9:57:45 AM | message detail |
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I'm not sure what your point is, I'm not denying there is a lot of
overlap between strong characters (there obviously is), just what "SFF"
is. I don't like comparisons with L-bock due to the fact that we really
can't predict it. Your example exploits the fact that L-block gets a
certain percentage no matter what, which is a rare and unrealistic
portrait of the way character strengths work. Imagine, rather, Link - Cloud - Tanner - Sam Fisher. Link beats Cloud, right? Now replace Tanner and Sam Fisher with Samus and Mario. Despite Link's fantastic ability to take overlap (hence the reason he's the most popular character), Samus and Mario have so much more overlap with Link than they do with Cloud, that they will be hurting Link more, despite Link's otherwise superior ability to win overlap than Cloud's. I could see Cloud beating Link here, which is a clear case of "SFF" in addition to "overlap. There is always overlap, SFF is a case of disproportionate overlap, as in my example above. What counts as disproportionate? My point is that there is no clear line that divides SFF from not-SFF: there are degrees of overlap, ranging from no overlap, to 100% overlap. You could say that SFF includes results that violate our expectations based on other matches, but the problem is that our expectations are often WRONG! In particular, I am speaking of linearity- the fundamental assumption of the x-stats. We have known that linearity is only roughly true, that it is far from perfect, for years. Yet we continue to view SFF as a deviation from linearity- we see SFF matches as anomalies. But SFF is not an anomaly- it is a counterexample that shows the flaws in linearity. So what I am saying is this: there exist varying amounts of SFF in every match, and we should not dismiss this as anomalous, but as important information to be considered. Had Mario and Samus been in the finals instead of Cloud/Snake, you would have had less votals, and all 3 would look weaker in relation to L. So would you take L-Block > Link in round 5 if it gets there? Link took in close to 59% of the Nintendo votes in day 1 of the Battle Royale. If he does the same in Link/Mario/Samus/L-Block, L-Block needs to take in around 37% of the total votes to match Link. L-Block ranged from 28% to 34% through the contest: that represents a substantial improvement- and remember, L-Block beat Link by around 3% in last year's final. Yes, the total votes would be lower with Mario and Samus there, so L would gain percentage, but considering its static nature, how much would it gain? Perhaps L would have won this match in last year's final, but I very much doubt it would have beaten Link by as much as it did with Cloud and Snake in the poll. --- "Fate has no forgiveness for those who dare stand against it." ~Chrono Cross Game Over Screen |
| RPGuy96 | Posted 8/31/2008 10:06:19 AM | message detail |
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That being said, y'know who's a lot weaker than Dante and Leon Kennedy? Pikachu. And that happens to be the most inexplicable result of the entire contest for me (how the hell is the worst LFF in the whole contest between Dante and Leon? Alternatively, was the rat held up by fellow RPG characters like Tidus and Vivi? That makes no sense either.). Not really something I would count on repeating. --- Mustache...and green... |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 8/31/2008 10:12:47 AM | message detail |
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That's just the most blatant example of
it happening, mostly because the character ended up pulling it off.
There were more than a few "near-misses", if you will. Mega Man coming
close to Samus with Yoshi in the poll, Mudkip scaring Luigi thanks to
Ganondorf, Akuma nearly overcoming Aeris thanks to Squall... these are
not coincidences here. The split has to be fortuitous, sure, but
nothing we haven't seen before. I would also like to make an addition with what was probably the most important instance of SFF hurting a character in the contest: Kirby/Donkey Kong. Oh yes. --- turnturnturn your brain in turnturnturn your brain in |
| therealmnm | Posted 8/31/2008 10:14:07 AM | message detail |
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And that happens to be the most inexplicable result of the entire
contest for me (how the hell is the worst LFF in the whole contest
between Dante and Leon? I would think an explanation would be due to Dante and Leon have smaller collective fanbases and their strength might be due to them being huge favorites of said fanbases. Versus Pikachu who has a huge voter pool to draw from, even if a lot of said voter pool doesn't like him too much. It would make sense seeing how DMC itself isn't that huge of a series on this site. Less so for Resident Evil, but then again, Leon isn't as strong as Dante. If they were to share any of their fanbase, it would hurt them more than characters who draw from a much larger fanbase on this site. --- Currently playing: GTAIV, SSBB, MP3, Apollo Justice, FFIVDS, Dracula X |
| therealmnm | Posted 8/31/2008 10:20:38 AM | message detail |
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I would also like to make an addition with what was probably the
most important instance of SFF hurting a character in the contest:
Kirby/Donkey Kong. Oh yes. But Kratos isn't that far away from Kirby in the first place. Plus L-Block getting his guaranteed portion of the votes. I'm not even touching that one. That's hardly comparable to Bowser/Luigi/Liquid/Phoenix Wright. I could see if there was someone stronger than Phoenix making Bowser and Luigi sweat over LFF... --- Currently playing: GTAIV, SSBB, MP3, Apollo Justice, FFIVDS, Dracula X |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 8/31/2008 10:29:51 AM | message detail |
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I don't think you understand what I was getting at there (relevance to the contest as opposed to the importance of this argument *cough*) but it's beside the point. << Phoenix will serve his purpose and get his 15%+, by the way. The guy got 11% against the diverse power of Mario, Naked Snake, and Magus (all of whom are underrated in the stats by the by). Luigi and Bowser leeching plus Liquid that ain't. Unless you want to make the argument his DS pedigree will make him suffer against that Ninty lovefest - which, of course, only hurts Luigi and Bowser that much more. --- turnturnturn your brain in turnturnturn your brain in |
| ffmasterjose | Posted 8/31/2008 11:20:45 AM | message detail |
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Ugh.. Who does everyone have for Division 1 Round 2 the second set of four? That's killing me, no matter who I have there it doesn't feel right. And it greatly depends on who gets out of Kefka/Marth/Niko/Duke --- 0/0 points - The Great GameFAQs Character Battle VII NP: Wario > Zack Fair |
| MoogleKupo141 | Posted 8/31/2008 11:22:55 AM | message detail |
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Lucario > Niko is what I've had for like forever. --- For your health. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/Cyclo/pokewhat.jpg This is my Chocomander, Steve! |
| charmander6000 | Posted 8/31/2008 11:26:31 AM | message detail |
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Lucario > Whoever you have in first in Duke/Kefka/Marth/Niko The only exception is if you have Marth in first and you believe that Lucario will LFF him below your second place character. --- Character Battle 2008: Points 0/0 |
| therealmnm | Posted 8/31/2008 11:31:47 AM | message detail |
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I'm not putting much stock into Niko. Being from a high-selling game
doesn't automatically make for a popular character. A lot of people are
saying that Niko is more likable and whatnot. I don't see it. Sure,
he's not a jerk like Tommy and isn't stereotypical like CJ, but then
again those are why said characters are liked.
Playing through GTAIV has me missing the badass jerk that was Tommy
Vercetti and the stereotypical humor of CJ (plus the situations he was
put in). Niko just screams standard fare "nice guy" to me. I don't see
voters flocking to him no matter how weak his competition is. I don't
even see him getting out of the first round... --- Currently playing: GTAIV, SSBB, MP3, Apollo Justice, FFIVDS, Dracula X |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 8/31/2008 11:31:56 AM | message detail |
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Ike Wario Diddy Kong Ness Who do you take? --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| bloodhawks return | Posted 8/31/2008 11:32:59 AM | message detail |
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Lucario > Marth, and I feel pretty confident in it. --- Keeping this until Casey Mears wins his 2nd Nascar Cup race. 7/7/07 26 days until I am an...Ancient |
| LegendaryRaiden | Posted 8/31/2008 11:33:57 AM | message detail |
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But Cecil is far less popular than his game. I never hear any buzz about he himself being a popular character from the series. What? Say Cecil is weak because FF4 is weak, not because he's "far less popular than his game." I'd call him the most popular in the game, certainly, and it's not even a very hard decision. --- Did you say nerd? - Raiden Yes, I did. Your hearing is flawless. You heard correctly. Get to the nerd. - Campbell |
| ffmasterjose | Posted 8/31/2008 11:35:30 AM | message detail |
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Ike Wario Diddy Kong Ness Who do you take? Yikes. Totally clueless --- 0/0 points - The Great GameFAQs Character Battle VII NP: Wario > Zack Fair |
| Zylo the wolf | Posted 8/31/2008 11:37:50 AM | message detail |
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Kain > Cecil. Just you wait..... --- Ngamer64: Zylo, you're making less sense every day. EC > Me |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 8/31/2008 11:38:44 AM | message detail |
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Oh, and I would take... Uh... ... --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| consolefreak | Posted 8/31/2008 11:39:24 AM | message detail |
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If SFF (Same Fanbase Factor) doesn't indicate strength in winning shared fanbases, what does it mean? Yeah I confusingly called "overlap" "shared fanbase" there. I'm saying that SFF is not the same as overlap. Squall and Pac-Man have huge overlap, but there's no SFF there. Of course, Cid and Red have more overlap with each other, so naturally the shared fanbase will become more important. Let's say Cid wins 60% of the shared fanbase against Red, they both have 70% of the site as fans, and they have 100% overlap (all Cid fans are Red XIII fans, all Red fans are Cid fans). Now let's introduce another character, let's say Mewtwo, who we're going to pretend also has 70% of the site as fans, and also gets 40% of the shared votes against Cid, and has no special relation to FFVII at all- therefore the overlap follows your case 1. We will thus have: Shared Fanbase: 49% Cid Only: 21% Mewtwo Only: 21% Neither: 9% Cid wins 100% of his 21%, Mewtwo wins 100% of his 21%, and Cid wins 60% of the shared votes. Fans of neither do not vote. Cid ends up with a little over 55% of the votes in this match. Now let's look at Cid and Red XIII: Shared Fanbase: 70% Cid Only: 0% Red Only: 0% Neither: 30% Now Cid wins with 60%. In this example, Mewtwo and Red were equals in their strength at winning shared fans, but Cid won by more against Red because their overlap accounted for more of the total votes. So how would Cid and Red fare against Link? If Cid truly would win more of the shared votes between Cid/Red, then it is likely enough that there are more people with the order Cid > Link > Red XIII than there are people with the order Red > Link > Cid. This might not be the case, but if Link has no special connections to either of these characters, then we would expect this. The result would then be that Cid would do a little better than Red against Link- the difference would be much smaller than in their direct match, because the people who would either vote Link over both FFVII characters, or vote either of them over Link, do not matter, insofar as they do not contribute the gap between Cid and Red when measured through Link. Exactly. Of course Cid will be stronger than Red XIII in general if he beats him 60-40. He just won't be stronger in the suggested 60/40 ratio, like you said. What counts as disproportionate? My point is that there is no clear line that divides SFF from not-SFF: there are degrees of overlap, ranging from no overlap, to 100% overlap. Disproportionate is all overlap beyond the mathematical expected overlap from 2 independent actions. If 80% of the site knows Crono and 60% of the site knows Frog, then the expected value of people who know both is 0.8 * 0.6 = 48% of the site. Any overlap beyond this 48% is disproportionate, hence "SFF". In this case, we could expect that if 60% of the site knows Frog, probably like 59% knows both Frog and Crono, rather than the 48%. Their overlap is disproportionately large and if they went up against each other the result may look awkward. This overlap can't be measured, but common sense can point you in the right direction. And from this, you can see that Link doesn't have to SFF every character just because every one knows him. --- CB2k8 : 0/0. Today : Wario > Zack. Tomorrow : Link > Shadow |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 8/31/2008 11:41:03 AM | message detail |
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Niko just screams standard fare "nice guy" to me. Not that Niko won't necessarily be weak, but this is about as dead-on balls wrong as you can get about Mr. Bellic. Niko's dialogue is by leagues the wittiest, funniest, and most clever there is out of all the GTA games. The only thing that holds him back (aside from his game itself) is, in a departure for the series, the humor being almost entirely subtle in nature. --- turnturnturn your brain in turnturnturn your brain in |
| therealmnm | Posted 8/31/2008 11:42:00 AM | message detail |
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What? Say Cecil is weak because FF4 is weak, not because he's "far
less popular than his game." I'd call him the most popular in the game,
certainly, and it's not even a very hard decision. I've never heard people clamoring about Cecil, at least in comparison to other FF protagonists. But yet there are tons of people who simply love FF4 as a whole. I never said Cecil wasn't the most popular character in his game, but in comparison to characters from other FF games it's not even close. Besides, what's so wrong about saying he's much less popular than his game? Kefka is much less popular than FFVI and it isn't even close. Even being that Cecil is the undoubted lead of his game, I'm still willing to bet there's a significant gap between his popularity and his games popularity. --- Currently playing: GTAIV, SSBB, MP3, Apollo Justice, FFIVDS, Dracula X |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 8/31/2008 11:42:40 AM | message detail |
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I liked San Andreas more than GTAIV (both great games), but I liked Niko more than CJ. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 8/31/2008 11:44:15 AM | message detail |
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Plus L-Block getting his guaranteed portion of the votes. I'm not even touching that one. you're forgetting that Kirby went from doubling L-Block to losing to him. the only explanation outside of DK hurting Kirby is Kratos or something which i doubt. --- *is Dranze* Explicit Contest is my lord. |
| therealmnm | Posted 8/31/2008 11:48:45 AM | message detail |
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Not that Niko won't necessarily be weak, but this is about as
dead-on balls wrong as you can get about Mr. Bellic. Niko's dialogue is
by leagues the wittiest, funniest, and most clever there is out of all
the GTA games. The only thing that holds him back (aside from his game
itself) is, in a departure for the series, the humor being almost
entirely subtle in nature. Uh, I was talking about my personal thoughts on Niko there and I don't see how I could be too wrong on that seeing how I literally just put the controller down from playing the game 5 minutes ago. It's not like I'm speaking on someone else's opinion of him. And even though Niko's dialog may be witty, he just doesn't seem to stand out enough for me to think he will be all too popular, especially in comparison to Tommy. --- Currently playing: GTAIV, SSBB, MP3, Apollo Justice, FFIVDS, Dracula X |
| LegendaryRaiden | Posted 8/31/2008 11:49:11 AM | message detail |
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I've never heard people clamoring about Cecil, at least in comparison to other FF protagonists Well, I think you're busy listening for tress to fall in forests then. I, at least, would easily put him in #4 among the main characters of FF as far as clamor-rate goes. (Behind Cloud, Squall, and probably Tidus) That being said I'm not saying he's going to be popular or anything, just that I'd say most FF4 fans dig Cecil. That being said I do think Cecil was a bit underrated last time due to being a robot. We'll see if he isn't a total joke with the amazing FF4DS art. --- Did you say nerd? - Raiden Yes, I did. Your hearing is flawless. You heard correctly. Get to the nerd. - Campbell |
| LegendaryRaiden | Posted 8/31/2008 11:53:14 AM | message detail |
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And I know, being behind Tidus on the lead talk-rate isn't that impressive... but FFX>>FF4. I've heard about as much talk about Cecil as FFIV, let's just say that. --- Did you say nerd? - Raiden Yes, I did. Your hearing is flawless. You heard correctly. Get to the nerd. - Campbell |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 8/31/2008 11:55:24 AM | message detail |
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I thought Cecil's picture was the most badass thing I've ever seen a
pre-FF7 Final Fantasy character get in these contests. I dunno what he
could get that would be all that much better. --- turnturnturn your brain in turnturnturn your brain in |
| LegendaryRaiden | Posted 8/31/2008 11:57:24 AM | message detail |
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You thought Amano-bot was "badass." What the hell is wrong with you. --- Did you say nerd? - Raiden Yes, I did. Your hearing is flawless. You heard correctly. Get to the nerd. - Campbell |
| PartOfYourWorld | Posted 8/31/2008 11:58:07 AM | message detail |
| [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster] |
| WarThaNemesis2 | Posted 8/31/2008 11:58:23 AM | message detail |
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MarioSuperstar (#188) Kirby's first round performance against L-Block was a lot about the fact that Laharl and Nathan Hale are both well below the fodder line. Like, being in semi-debatable matches with Jade Curtiss weak. L-Block did as well on Kirby/two of the weakest entrants ever as he did on three of the top eleven characters. Liquid Snake dropped by what, more than half when you replace weak with remotely strong? Liquid's no L-Block. His voter-block won't give him a constant high 20s in percent. When his opponents get stronger, he'll fall in %. He'll just have to hope he doesn't fall so far that he's completely out of it. |
| PartOfYourWorld | Posted 8/31/2008 11:58:54 AM | message detail |
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Once again, I'll point out that Tommy and CJ were, themselves, at least
partly responsible for the initial hype surrounding their games. Tommy
was the first GTA character with an actual story and identity, and CJ
was the first black lead and truly customizable character. People were
excited about those two. There was no such excitement for Niko. In that
sense, he's already starting a big step behind. --- Yoblazer: NO LIMITZ Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your world! |
| WarThaNemesis2 | Posted 8/31/2008 12:00:55 PM | message detail |
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Karma Hunter (#192) Pre-FFVII characters (other than Cecil) have gotten...what, Lettuce? Elite competition right there. That's like saying Snake's 2k6 sprite was the best sprite pic he's ever gotten.* *I'm not saying it's the best he's gotten. <_< |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 8/31/2008 12:03:19 PM | message detail |
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Kirby's first round performance against L-Block was a lot about the
fact that Laharl and Nathan Hale are both well below the fodder line.
Like, being in semi-debatable matches with Jade Curtiss weak. L-Block
did as well on Kirby/two of the weakest entrants ever as he did on
three of the top eleven characters. so basically what you're saying is that adding Kratos made Kirby lose to L-block and not moreso of adding DK? Liquid Snake dropped by what, more than half when you replace weak with remotely strong? Liquid's no L-Block. His voter-block won't give him a constant high 20s in percent. When his opponents get stronger, he'll fall in %. He'll just have to hope he doesn't fall so far that he's completely out of it. differences being that he didnt stick out. Akuma stuck out in the Aeris/Squall. as did Pikachu with Dante/Leon. --- *is Dranze* Explicit Contest is my lord. |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 8/31/2008 12:03:33 PM | message detail |
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You thought Amano-bot was "badass." What the hell is wrong with you. Alright Cecil-pants, then show me just exactly what pre-FF7 Final Fantasy pic was better! --- turnturnturn your brain in turnturnturn your brain in |
| Yesmar | Posted 8/31/2008 12:04:02 PM | message detail |
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Once again, I'll point out that Tommy and CJ were, themselves, at
least partly responsible for the initial hype surrounding their games.
Tommy was the first GTA character with an actual story and identity,
and CJ was the first black lead and truly customizable character.
People were excited about those two. There was no such excitement for
Niko. In that sense, he's already starting a big step behind. I thought that there was a fair amount of attention paid in pre-release hype and early reviews to the level of Niko's characterization, and how he developed throughout the game. --- You need to meet someone at a garden, or a movie or something. Somewhere classy. Like a cooking recipe message board or something.--True Godhand/Curt |
