GameFAQs Contests
Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 557
| therealmnm | Posted 8/25/2008 5:01:43 PM | message detail |
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Yeah, Shadow's getting crucified here because of his two matches last
year. I think people are making too much a big deal about "OMG HE LOST
UPDATES TO PYRAMID HEAD!!!" And really, he was easily the weak link out
of the second poll. Didn't NGamer (or someone else in this topic)
explain some numbers about the 4th person in the poll being
significantly weaker than the other 3, and said character having a
disproportional percentage in a non-linear fashion? --- Currently playing: GTAIV, SSBB, MP3, Apollo Justice, FFIVDS, Dracula X |
| ZFS | Posted 8/25/2008 5:04:02 PM | message detail |
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I should say, though, that I think Zack will be a legitimately 'strong'
character. It isn't all based on Shadow's weakness, but it helps that
your main competition ain't exactly the world's strongest. --- Kept you waiting, huh? |
| Yesmar | Posted 8/25/2008 5:04:46 PM | message detail |
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I don't want to sound like a jackass, but I think people are
overestimating Zack's role in FFVII. This is a character with five
minutes, IF THAT, of screentime (probably only around one minute of
screentime in the game proper) and people are making comparisons
(albeit ones I know are not supposed to be direct) between a playable
character such as Vincent and Jenova, a principal antagonist who you
fight multiple times throughout the game. I'm also afraid that people are picking against Shadow because nobody likes him here. this is a guy that went even with Tidus, got his own game (bad, good, I don't care), and is now projected to lose to Zack Fair. is anybody taking Zack over Tidus? But to play Devil's advocate here, I don't think Tidus Vs. Shadow would be all that close if it was held again today. Neither of them appear to be at their 2004 levels anymore. --- You need to meet someone at a garden, or a movie or something. Somewhere classy. Like a cooking recipe message board or something.--True Godhand/Curt |
| Lopen | Posted 8/25/2008 5:05:29 PM | message detail |
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Yes, people are overthinking Zack too much. I'm sick of the Vincent/Zack comparison... he is in no way like Vincent. Despite being "hidden," Vincent is playable. And his role in spite of being hidden is a hell of a lot more significant than Zack's. Vincent had loads of "favorite FF7 character polls" on his side before the fact. Zack has nothing to that end. As someone who was supporting Vincent hardcore before 2005, HM, I'd think you'd be the first to realize that Zack and Vincent are not at all the same. Honestly... people are referring to Shadow and Kefka (maybe even SFFed Marth/Lucario have a small chance, honestly) as pushovers, when they're solid midcarders. I know, it's easy to sell them short when they keep burning you, but they're reasonably strong characters. Zack's division is a joke, but not a joke to the extent that someone needs only to break the fodder line to escape it. Even if you think Sonic team bombs here, Kefka doesn't, really, and should be more than enough to handle Zack unless Zack is reasonably strong. Zack needs more than "a fraction" of Vincent's strength to get out of there... he needs over half (yes that's a fraction you know what I meant) of Vincent's strength to get out of there. It's not trivial. --- Prisoner number 4983-4750-0321 Nominate Raiden!: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=44772404 |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 8/25/2008 5:08:02 PM | message detail |
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If it applies to Shadow, it applies to Zidane (who, again, had much
more reason to suffer due to overlap). And losing updates to Pyramid
Head is just the best soundbite for most to understand it - only
mustering 26% of the vote against that competition (and he came in
second) was pathetic. --- turnturnturn your brain in turnturnturn your brain in |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 8/25/2008 5:08:57 PM | message detail |
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People aren't crucifying Shadow because he burned them. Did anyone
actually take Shadow to win his rounds last year? People are crucifying
Shadow because he performed like crap last year and is going to be on
the ass end of Link SFF in all of his matches. Sonic character perform
badly in this format, and Shadow more than anyone else has reason to
drop as Sega kills his character. Zidane, Zack, Kefka - all of them
could beat him. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 8/25/2008 5:12:48 PM | message detail |
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And did I just see Kefka referred to as a "solid midcarder"? Methinks
someone's confusing the definition of that with "barely breaking the
fodder line". The clown's only got the format as his saving grace here. --- turnturnturn your brain in turnturnturn your brain in |
| Lopen | Posted 8/25/2008 5:13:36 PM | message detail |
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Some did, and even if they didn't... going way lower than expectations still makes you look like a fool to some extent. --- Prisoner number 4983-4750-0321 Nominate Raiden!: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=44772404 |
| trannyscience | Posted 8/25/2008 5:14:28 PM | message detail |
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But to play Devil's advocate here, I don't think Tidus Vs. Shadow
would be all that close if it was held again today. Neither of them
appear to be at their 2004 levels anymore. seeing as they've both been perceived to drop, I would argue that heads-up this would be a close match still. in this format I'd take Tidus though. but we have nothing to go on for Sonic characters bombing this year.. this is like saying Sonic was going to bomb in 2004 because he got doubled by Cloud. characters have good years and they have bad years. it's impossible to tell what's up with Team Sonic when it's only been one year that they haven't looked good. and while people are saying that Zack doesn't need to be godlike to beat Shadow, the opposite applies -- Shadow doesn't need to be anything in order to beat Zack, a footnote to the FF7 story and the star of a PSP game. I'm trying to think of other unique PSP characters, and I can't. it's because they don't matter. --- xyzzy |
| Lopen | Posted 8/25/2008 5:16:40 PM | message detail |
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Maybe "solid midcarder" is the wrong word but he's clearly a cut above
the fodder line. He probably hits the fodder line with an Ulti style
blowout, at least. Kefka gets beat by a lot but he's not a total joke. --- Prisoner number 4983-4750-0321 Nominate Raiden!: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=44772404 |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 8/25/2008 5:17:37 PM | message detail |
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There's having a bad year and there's there all of the characters underperforming in a new format. It's too coincidental. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| trannyscience | Posted 8/25/2008 5:18:28 PM | message detail |
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Kefka is the fodder line. don't dress it up any other way! --- xyzzy |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 8/25/2008 5:19:11 PM | message detail |
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Ness is the fodder line as far as I'm concerned. Kefka varies a little bit. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| therealmnm | Posted 8/25/2008 5:20:08 PM | message detail |
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There's having a bad year and there's there all of the characters underperforming in a new format. It's too coincidental. It was just backlash from Sonic 2k6, yo --- Currently playing: GTAIV, SSBB, MP3, Apollo Justice, FFIVDS, Dracula X |
| Lopen | Posted 8/25/2008 5:20:28 PM | message detail |
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To me the fodder line is around 19-20 on BL whereas Kefka hovers around 22-23 on BL. --- Prisoner number 4983-4750-0321 Nominate Raiden!: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=44772404 |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 8/25/2008 5:20:32 PM | message detail |
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We don't have terribly much to go on in establishing a trend
for Sonic Team, it's true, but seeing as how that was the very first
year we'd had this format I'd say we have a pretty big culprit to point
the finger at. I mean, MGS characters overperformed to most of our
expectations, and everyone attributed THAT to the format as well. Could
it have been that the MGSers were just on a one-year variance high and
will now regress to the mean? The format seems like a more obvious culprit. And there's little to point to Sonic Team changing their fortunes. --- turnturnturn your brain in turnturnturn your brain in |
| swirIdude | Posted 8/25/2008 5:21:25 PM | message detail |
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Kefka is the fodder line. don't dress it up any other way! I'll dress it in ranch. --- SSBB FC: 4425-1156-3590 NOMINATE KNUCKLES THE ECHIDNA! |
| ZFS | Posted 8/25/2008 5:26:07 PM | message detail |
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Despite being "hidden," Vincent is playable. And his role in spite
of being hidden is a hell of a lot more significant than Zack's. Vincent had loads of "favorite FF7 character polls" on his side before the fact. Zack has nothing to that end. As someone who was supporting Vincent hardcore before 2005, HM, I'd think you'd be the first to realize that Zack and Vincent are not at all the same. The comparisons to Vincent are to illustrate how regardless of how significant your role you can have loads of strength. Tifa has everything that Vincent has and then some - why is he stronger? He looks a whole hell of a lot cooler. The point I was trying to make with the Vincent comparison is that despite how small he was in FFVII, he is third only to Cloud and Sephiroth on the FFVII chain. He has all of those fans based on that role in FFVII - a role that's enough to take main characters down and villains that have been around since the 80s. Zack is in this same exact position - but no one is arguing him being on Vincent's level. Not being playable hurts him, as does his lack of screentime, but how many people still know who Zack is despite this? But Zack isn't only a tiny role, or only a black haired Cloud, or just some guy holding a Buster Sword - he's all of that plus the star of his own game. Ignoring Crisis Core is asking for trouble. Zack should by all means be a legitimate character. His association to FFVII, his design, his game - he's got everything he needs to be half a Vincent. Whether or not you think he will be is another thing, but I'm confident Zack's going to be something here. But, hey, maybe I'm wrong. We'll see. --- Kept you waiting, huh? |
| ChronicYouth | Posted 8/25/2008 5:26:52 PM | message detail |
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Right now I have Kefka coming out of the division with Link. What I
don't like about that, is, I don't even know if he's gonna make it out
of the first round. Kefka, Lucario, Shadow, hell Zidane all have better
chances in my mind to get out than Zack. Hell, Altair and Niko too. Not
that I think they will, but I really, really think Zack is going to be
Balthier x10. And not in a good way. --- can you dig it? |
| RPGuy96 | Posted 8/25/2008 5:26:54 PM | message detail |
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Raiden nearly lost to Sam Fisher, Ocelot lost to Fenix, and Liquid did
awful in his second round match. I wouldn't give the MGS crew too much
format credit. Sonic team, on the other hand, looked awful pretty much all around. --- Mustache...and green... |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 8/25/2008 5:29:56 PM | message detail |
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Raiden nearly lost to Sam Fisher, Ocelot lost to Fenix, and Liquid
did awful in his second round match. I wouldn't give the MGS crew too
much format credit. You remember how Ocelot wasn't supposed to be there, right? Same with Liquid, and he came in first in his first round match. Only Raiden really disappointed, and you have no trendline from which to gauge his progress (unless you use 2k3, in which case he gets the Most Improved Award by about a 70 point margin). --- turnturnturn your brain in turnturnturn your brain in |
| trannyscience | Posted 8/25/2008 5:31:56 PM | message detail |
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yep, if Kefka's there I take him over Shadow. hell, if Niko's there I
might pick him over Shadow, too. the key there is Link - there's not
going to be a lot of percentage to go around. guys like Kefka who are
guaranteed votes mean a lot. he just needs to get out of round 1. my initial bracket had Kefka to round 4 until I thought about the picture and how I was asking Kefka to win three rounds. --- xyzzy |
| RPGuy96 | Posted 8/25/2008 5:32:55 PM | message detail |
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As I recall, Ocelot/Jill considered a tossup (I wish the BOP was on
creative's site for that year). Liquid certainly wasn't the favourite,
but that match was definitely talked about. He also managed to go from
+3 to -9149 against Alucard... --- Mustache...and green... |
| ZFS | Posted 8/25/2008 5:33:31 PM | message detail |
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my initial bracket had Kefka to round 4 until I thought about the picture and how I was asking Kefka to win three rounds. Ha. Sounds like me. --- Kept you waiting, huh? |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 8/25/2008 5:33:41 PM | message detail |
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Jill over Ocelot was the overwhelmingly favorite choice, and
Alucard>Ness was also the most popular choice for the other match. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| trannyscience | Posted 8/25/2008 5:34:17 PM | message detail |
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every single person was confused as to the result of Jill/Ocelot, but
went with Jill because she was the last one to impress while Ocelot had
Pac-Man. it was a 50/50 match that just happened to have a consensus.
everyone knew that. --- xyzzy |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 8/25/2008 5:34:29 PM | message detail |
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One of the main reasons I don't have Kefka exiting Round 1 is lettuce. It's just...he doesn't have many pics to choose from. --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| Lopen | Posted 8/25/2008 5:37:17 PM | message detail |
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Well, it doesn't really work like that though... this like saying: "Well, Ganondorf doesn't have as much screentime as Link in Zelda, and isn't playable in the main games only in Smash, but he looks kinda cool and he ended up a high midcarder" "Well, the same exact argument applies to Aganhim, he has less screentime than Ganondorf still and isn't playable at all, so he'll probably end up a low midcarder" What I'm saying is... Vincent's situation is not at all the same because the reduced screentime borders on ridiculous now. He may have less screentime than Cloud, but Zack has literally 5 minutes. You've got to draw the line somewhere. In fact, now I remember where I had this argument before. When I was arguing against Ridley. Minimal screentime, and while there is a character there it's generally only accessible through outside sources. Even Ridley is more significant to the typical Metroid fan than Zack is, though... leaps and bounds. --- Prisoner number 4983-4750-0321 Nominate Raiden!: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=44772404 |
| ChronicYouth | Posted 8/25/2008 5:38:41 PM | message detail |
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The only thing that's giving me some semblance of faith for Kefka is
the format.... and hoping Niko bombs. If Kefka makes it out of Round 1,
I'm almost positive he'll have what it takes to get out of Round 2,
what with Marth and Lucario being there and all. If Issac gets in over
Altair it could only help Kefka's chances even more, if only slightly.
Then round 3? Give me Kefka all day baby. The first round is pretty
make or break for me. --- can you dig it? |
| ZFS | Posted 8/25/2008 5:40:01 PM | message detail |
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Even Ridley is more significant to the typical Metroid fan than Zack is, though... leaps and bounds. Would you take Ridley over Zack? If so, that's all we need to say - we'll never see eye to eye on this. --- Kept you waiting, huh? |
| ChronicYouth | Posted 8/25/2008 5:41:26 PM | message detail |
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Would you take Ridley over Zack? If so, that's all we need to say - we'll never see eye to eye on this. You will when Zack gets -87 votes in the first match! --- can you dig it? |
| trannyscience | Posted 8/25/2008 5:42:33 PM | message detail |
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I would consider Ridley over Zack. Zack has a wild range. --- xyzzy |
| Lopen | Posted 8/25/2008 5:42:53 PM | message detail |
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Yes I would take Ridley over Zack. Hell, I'm taking Cecil over Zack and Ridley probably beats Cecil too. But really, the point was how signifcant Ridley is to the Metroid series vs how significant Zack is to FF7. Do you think Zack is more significant, with his 5 minutes of screentime? --- Prisoner number 4983-4750-0321 Nominate Raiden!: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=44772404 |
| ZFS | Posted 8/25/2008 5:44:06 PM | message detail |
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I've said it about three or four times now that Zack is not all FFVII. Ignoring Crisis Core is an absolute mistake. --- Kept you waiting, huh? |
| trannyscience | Posted 8/25/2008 5:45:37 PM | message detail |
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here's the thing about Crisis Core -- does it beat FF12? think about that. --- xyzzy |
| Lopen | Posted 8/25/2008 5:46:55 PM | message detail |
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To the contrary, I feel quite alright ignoring PSP games that can't even finish at the top of their class. And anyway, I'd say FFIV DS should be more respected as a boost for Cecil than Crisis Core should be as a boost for Zack. Do I need to italicize PSP again? --- Prisoner number 4983-4750-0321 Nominate Raiden!: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=44772404 |
| Axem Turtle | Posted 8/25/2008 5:47:36 PM | message detail |
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I'm tired of arguing this match, so I'll just say I agree with whatever
HM says regarding this match. He is saying exactly what I am. ^5 HM |
| trannyscience | Posted 8/25/2008 5:47:47 PM | message detail |
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Crisis Core is far more significant for Zack than FF4DS is for Cecil.
I'm surprised you'd even argue this given that Crisis Core sold more,
was actually new content, and had a more interesting protagonist. --- xyzzy |
| trannyscience | Posted 8/25/2008 5:48:06 PM | message detail |
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haha time to abandon ship --- xyzzy |
| ZFS | Posted 8/25/2008 5:48:43 PM | message detail |
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Crisis's Core strength isn't what is particularly pertinent here. It's what Crisis Core means to Zack
that's important, and it couldn't be moreso. It elevates Zack from
being a black haired Cloud in a flashback to being an actual character
- one I've seen plenty of people express how much they like. To answer the question? No, I wouldn't. But then I have plenty of respect for "Final Fantasy [insert number]." I'd take FFXII over most of a games contest field no problem. --- Kept you waiting, huh? |
| ChronicYouth | Posted 8/25/2008 5:48:45 PM | message detail |
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No one's ignoring Crisis Core... they're just being sensible as to how
much strength it could possibly lend to a character. One, it's a PSP
game. Right there, that kills of 2/3rds of the site from ever even
possibly being able to play it, as only 1/3rd have had a PSP. Now out
of those PSP owners, you have to wager a guess to how many actually
played Crisis Core, and judging from it's less than stellar sales, I'm
going to go ahead and say not all that many. And now from that pool,
how many are going to like him enough to vote him over Link, and
whoever else is going to be in his way? It just doesn't add up to
anything more than fodder. Take your pic on what end of the fodder
spectrum he's going to land, but it sure ain't gonna be pretty. --- can you dig it? |
| KamikazePotato | Posted 8/25/2008 5:48:56 PM | message detail |
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...We're going to be talking about Zack for the next three weeks, aren't we? --- Brawl FC: 4296-2658-3681 (KP) |
| ZFS | Posted 8/25/2008 5:49:53 PM | message detail |
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dammit turtle my case isn't being helped here --- Kept you waiting, huh? |
| Lopen | Posted 8/25/2008 5:50:03 PM | message detail |
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Crisis Core sold more but FFIV DS is more recent and probably has a higher buyrate on this site given that, again, PSP game. In the last month, which has sold more, that's the real question. (And what did you just insult Cecil) --- Prisoner number 4983-4750-0321 Nominate Raiden!: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=44772404 |
| trannyscience | Posted 8/25/2008 5:51:27 PM | message detail |
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come on now. by next month, Crisis Core
will be above FF4 in every conceivable way on this site. it'll be
higher in the FAQs, or about the same spot, despite being six months
older. it'll still have sold more. and it will leave far more of an
impact on people. I'm saying this as someone who has actually played Crisis Core. --- xyzzy |
| KleenexTissue50 | Posted 8/25/2008 5:53:12 PM | message detail |
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Zack > Master Chief --- Gilgamesh didn't make the bracket this year. Shame on you. http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b146/KleenexTissue501/12rw-gilgamesh-a.jpg |
| Lopen | Posted 8/25/2008 5:53:30 PM | message detail |
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Considering Cecil has his chance to eliminate Zack before FFIVDS "falls off the radar" I'd say that that's mostly irrelevant. --- Prisoner number 4983-4750-0321 Nominate Raiden!: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=44772404 |
| Yesmar | Posted 8/25/2008 5:53:32 PM | message detail |
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I think part of the reason it seems that the format benefitted MGS
characters was just because people were just being too obstinate about
them before hand, but then again I saw both Ocelot and Liquid coming,
so maybe I'm a little biased. People didn't give Ocelot a chance because of "lol he lost to Pac-Man" ignoring the fact that Pac-Man is not that bad of a character, and people didn't trust Liquid because of the Villain Contest, once again ignoring the SFF ties we had begun to establish between FF and MGS at that point. --- You need to meet someone at a garden, or a movie or something. Somewhere classy. Like a cooking recipe message board or something.--True Godhand/Curt |
| ZFS | Posted 8/25/2008 5:54:00 PM | message detail |
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judging from it's less than stellar sales About 600,000 copies isn't what I'd call 'less than stellar.' --- Kept you waiting, huh? |
| ChronicYouth | Posted 8/25/2008 5:55:29 PM | message detail |
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I would... but that's just semantics. The point still stands. --- can you dig it? |
