GameFAQs Contests
Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 550
| Xcarvenger | Posted 7/6/2008 3:40:43 AM | message detail |
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Vincent Valentine > Squall Leonhart (very close) >> Ganondorf (pig ganon = below Bowser or Ryu) >> Tifa Lockhart > Auron (Auron may be slightly stronger indirectly, but in direct match, the SFF will be in favor of Tifa imho) >> Bowser (despite this http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=2898) > Ryu (Post-SFIV which will not help him much I think) >> Sora (bar Kingdoms Hearts III announcement) > Master Chief (his best contest TIME was so last year and it will never be repeated, except uh... Halo 0 or 4 or 3 EXTRA or something is announced) > Princess Zelda (unless Link is NOT in the main bracket, which in that case, I think she will be above non-KHIII Sora tbqh >_>) --- Xcarvenger: The cream of Chocobo fanboyism. What is in Board 8? ~*~ www.board8.wikia.com ~*~ |
| Zylo the wolf | Posted 7/6/2008 3:54:10 AM | message detail |
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How come Samus is a noble niner?Her games are certainly popular but they aren't on the same level as Mario and Link,her character isn't the most recognisable,i mean Sonic represents Sega and Megaman's franchise make him very recognisable too. I think the reason why so many like Samus is because she just like Link and Mario are in at least one of the ten most popular games on every Nintendo system. (Smash Bros for the N64) Now that we are speaking of Samus and her great games, damn I just realized how tough it would be to predict Super Metroid in a new game contest. --- Ngamer64: Zylo, you're making less sense every day. EC > Me |
| Mac Arrowny | Posted 7/6/2008 7:04:35 AM | message detail |
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No one thinks SSBB and SMG are going to boost Nintendo characters? --- All the stars in the sky are waiting for you. Brawl FC: 4253-3155-6697 |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/6/2008 1:41:33 PM | message detail |
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Honestly, it's going to be hard for Mario to boost more than he already
has, I think. I believe it could help Luigi a lot more since he's
playable in a platformer for the first time since...1991? And I think Brawl will help first timers much more than returning characters. --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| Mac Arrowny | Posted 7/6/2008 3:20:10 PM | message detail |
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I was talking more about Bowser. >_> --- All the stars in the sky are waiting for you. Brawl FC: 4253-3155-6697 |
| Ngamer64 | Posted 7/6/2008 5:45:34 PM | message detail |
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Vincent Valentine Squall Leonhart - Very close between the two, but Vince has matched all Squall's accomplishments since their meeting in '05, so I still give him the slight edge. Ganondorf Auron Princess Zelda Tifa Lockhart - Due to weird SFF and the "name factor" I'd back Zelda over Ganon head to head, but otherwise this is how I'd put them indirectly. As we've been over many times now, Ganon laid the wood to Auron in '05 and Nintendo has only strengthened since then while Square has lost a step. I'd take Auron in a 4 way format, and I'd have taken him coming in hot off his KHII cameo, but in a 2008 1v1 I'm still backing Ganon in a tight one. Tifa's just too weird to put any kind of stock in... sure she had the crazy Samus match, but she also only managed 53% on Luigi. I'd take Zelda based on the 57% spanking she applied to Aeris; sure Tifa's a good deal stronger than Aeris, but a 57 leaves the Princess plenty of wiggle room. Bowser Sora Ryu Master Chief - Oddly enough, these rankings would be exactly reversed if we were talking strength in 4 ways. But we're not, and even though Sora has proven himself to be legit since that QCQing Snake applied, Bowser is still a little out of his league IMO. Ryu's SF4 boost shouldn't be gigantic, but I don't see him needing much to vault back ahead of MC once we return to a format where anti-voting works. --- Hot Content: thengamer.com/xstats | board8.wikia.com He isn't a killer. He just wins - thoroughly. |
| ZFS | Posted 7/6/2008 5:52:54 PM | message detail |
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It's a bad call to apply Square losing a step to everyone under their
umbrella. Ganon beat Auron in 2005, but it should be pretty clear which
of the two has had the most to gain from their releases since. --- Where there are cardboard boxes, there will always be Solid Snake. |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/6/2008 6:14:10 PM | message detail |
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I wouldn't say Square has lost a step since 2005. I'd say they've
essentially remained constant since then. I can't think of a Square
character who's taken a noticeable drop since then, other than Aeris,
and that's debatable since we didn't see her for three years. --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| Ngamer64 | Posted 7/6/2008 6:21:52 PM | message detail |
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FINISH HIM 1) The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time > (1) Super Smash Bros. Brawl - Regardless of if its Brawl or Melee in this spot, OoT should we walking away a winner without too much trouble. The thing I'll be more watching for will be if SSB can once again shock us by landing a few solid punches against a Nintendo titan, like it did against the Mario series. If on the other hand Ocarina manages to SFF the game into the ground where Mario's entire library failed, FF7 had better watch out! (1) Final Fantasy VII > (2) The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past - This would be such a great setup, assuming things work out as I predicted. First FF7 would punch out TP without too much trouble, but everyone would say that's alright, it's one of the weaker links in the series, Zelda can still pull this off. Then LttP would bring it closer, and both Nintendo and Square sides would be nervous. OoT is obviously the strongest, but did the SNES game make a big enough gain for the N64 classic to have a legit shot? Also this would be great in terms of giving us an excellent reading on the how the Zelda totem poll looks- much better than if these games played each other directly, I should think. --- 1) The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time > (1) Final Fantasy VII - I've been over this a number of times, but to summarize, it seems to me this would go down much like Zelda/FF, except with only half the margin of victory or so. Square's trying its hardest to keep FF7 relevant with these movies and sequels and prequels, but they've been hit or miss and I don't think they've had the kind of impact needed to shift the balance of power back in Square's favor. Overall I reward this bracket one of my highest grades ever... an A-. Hold your head up high, Leon! --- Hot Content: thengamer.com/xstats | board8.wikia.com He isn't a killer. He just wins - thoroughly. |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/6/2008 6:25:20 PM | message detail |
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I'll still take FFVII over OoT on stubbornness alone. I wish I could
still say the same about CT > LttP, but Trigger has fallen too far
for me to maintain that stance. --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| Ngamer64 | Posted 7/6/2008 6:37:17 PM | message detail |
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Leon and/or HaR (or anyone else, really): If you're ever looking to make a new mock bracket, all the brackets that have been posted in Stats for the last two years are stored on my wiki User page, along with my complete commentary. http://board8.wikia.com/wiki/User:Ngamer#Predictions Might be helpful if you're looking for new ideas or wanting to check if the setups you're creating have already been debated. --- Hot Content: thengamer.com/xstats | board8.wikia.com He isn't a killer. He just wins - thoroughly. |
| HeroicTronBonne | Posted 7/6/2008 6:39:12 PM | message detail |
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We REALLY need a contest --- The Straight Up G WWEGSB Hardcore Legend and Board 8er Masa/Hiko |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/6/2008 7:06:25 PM | message detail |
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So no one's going to tackle my newcomers list? I'm not sure I want to see too many newcomers this year because there aren't that many left worth giving a shot to. I still want to see a second FFVIII character, and I don't even care who it is anymore. It could be Ultimecia, for all I care. I'm uncertain as to whether Seifer, Laguna, or even Rinoa or Zell would be the second strongest. Zell did come in second in that long ago poll, while Laguna actually did slightly worse than Rinoa. --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| nintendogirl1 | Posted 7/6/2008 7:09:49 PM | message detail |
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As far as newcomers go, I want Travis Touchdown to get in and then not job in the first round. --- That would keep me happy in a character contest. |
| nintendogirl1 | Posted 7/6/2008 7:10:31 PM | message detail |
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I wouldn't even care if he was Link fodder, just as long as he made it over the fodder line. --- Travis > You. |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/6/2008 7:12:58 PM | message detail |
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*sees that No More Heroes sold only around 100,000 copies* Chances of hitting the fodder line aren't good, I'd say, unless the fans are just really hardcore. --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| nintendogirl1 | Posted 7/6/2008 7:14:46 PM | message detail |
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What seriously? I had no idea it was anywhere near that low. --- *cries* |
| H__RR____H | Posted 7/7/2008 8:35:54 AM | message detail |
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About Auron > Squall: I don't want to defend it too heavily since I
already feel like those four FF characters could go in so many
different orders. That said, I was mainly thinking about FFX > FF8,
Auron having a higher percentage against the likes of Yuna and Tidus
than Squall against the likes of Zell and Seifer, and that Auron at
least had a great role in KH2 to compete with Squall's fanbase from the
KH series. No doubt it's a close match though, and it could go either
way for sure. --- Lobby Hero http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/3079/lobbyheroauditionflyerssv6.jpg |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/7/2008 9:51:59 AM | message detail |
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As I said before, there's no doubt in my mind that Squall wins another
FFVIII Character poll by much more than he did the first time. Squall
hatred was much higher back then, and he's had Kingdom Hearts as well. --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/7/2008 9:55:32 AM | message detail |
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Plus, Auron hasn't really done anything to me to prove that he's
stronger than Squall. 65% on Alucard in 2006 was impressive, but I
think it was more Alucard stinking it up than anything else, and I feel
confident in saying that Squall could've probably done that as well.
Plus, I'd actually go so far as to say that 42.5% on 2006 Snake is
better than 45% on 2006 Crono, and the stats back me up on that point. --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 7/7/2008 10:51:22 AM | message detail |
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depends on where you peg Sonic (and Snake if you find his match with
Samus or anybody else's fishy). if anything weird happened in that
match, i'd say it's still a toss-up. --- *is Dranze* Brawl FC: 4081-5169-8762 |
| H__RR____H | Posted 7/7/2008 11:39:12 AM | message detail |
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I would rather compare them in their games pre-KH, honestly. If there
are ever more FF8/FFX-polls again, yes, I would expect the KH series to
affect some of the characters. That said, before KH was ever in action,
Auron was more dominant in his poll against tougher opposition than
Squall. Essentially, it's like this: Squall got ~30% while Zell took
~17.5% and Seifer got ~13%. Compare that to Auron having ~40% while
Tidus and Rikku each had ~14%. Pre-KH, there's no way Auron doesn't
look better by that comparison. Throw in both the polls and The List saying FFX > FF8 (though both are top-rated games, not hating there), plus Auron did 4% better against Cloud in 2003 (27.8%, pre-KH2) than Squall did against Cloud in 2004 (23.79%, post-KH)...there's a strong case to make that Auron would hold his own before considering what happened since then. Auron has both reason and proof that he can handle SFF better than Squall. That's not knocking on Squall saying he can't handle SFF; most characters will naturally be destroyed by Cloud. He lost a close one against Vincent pre-KH2, then once KH2 was released he smashed Tidus. He also ousted both Aeris and Sora in last year's format, and there's little question he would beat his cast even harder in another FF8-poll... ...but there's little question Auron would still smash everyone from his FFX-cast (Tidus included) even though FFX-2 is out, and he doesn't even need KH2 to do that one. I don't think anybody doubts he would beat Aeris and Sora one-on-one or in a multi-way poll like Squall did, and I think people would say Vincent/Auron would probably be close (especially since Auron did about a percent better on Crono in 2k6 than Vincent in 2k5). Auron can also dig into Squall's KH-fanbase to some degree since his role in KH2 is well-liked. Squall can be a little ahead in the stats if he likes; I'm comfortable with that being true for now (though last year didn't really give us much on how they compare post-KH2), and I still maintain it can go either way. I still feel like Auron is more capable to hold his own in the face of SFF though, and should they go head-to-head one day I would probably pick him. --- Lobby Hero http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/3079/lobbyheroauditionflyerssv6.jpg |
| Zylo the wolf | Posted 7/7/2008 1:48:09 PM | message detail |
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Squall VS Auron would be a toss up. I think that Squall should be
considered as the favourite, but I wouldn't consider it an upset if
Auron won. --- Ngamer64: Zylo, you're making less sense every day. EC > Me |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/7/2008 4:09:09 PM | message detail |
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To me, it seems obvious that the lead character of the game that
followed FFVII is going to get SFF'd harder than the guy from the game
on the next system and three games after FFVII. Cloud and Squall
sharing more of a fanbase than Cloud and Auron is almost common sense
to me. And I don't know if Auron being able to SFF the FFX crew more than Squall can SFF the FFVIII crew really counts for anything. After all, it's pure SFF, so you have to take it with a grain of salt. I mean, we've seen those things not count for squat before (Yoshi > Mario and Bowser, yo!). I think those things make a difference in multiway polls moreso than one-on-one, as we saw Yoshi do fairly well while Bowser bombed. Regardless, I doubt Squall and Auron would be an SFF match, and FFX being more popular than FFVIII doesn't count for that much because characters =/= games and I don't think the popularity disparity is that large. Besides, if we want to talk about the KH advantage, I think Squall being in both rather than one should help him out. Plus, you never get to fight against Auron in the Coliseum, which is one of the big draws about having FF characters in Kingdom Hearts, I think. --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| WarThaNemesis2 | Posted 7/7/2008 4:21:38 PM | message detail |
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I'm convinced that this Auron > Squall hype is just an aftereffect
of there being no contest, like how for some reason Master Chief is
going from losing to Sub-Zero to being put in conversations with the
likes of Ryu, forgetting that the Chief has done nothing ever but show
that he has the biggest illusion of contest strength ever. ....alright, except L-Block. |
| WarThaNemesis2 | Posted 7/7/2008 4:22:34 PM | message detail |
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And yes, I'm calling like 3 or 4 posts of Auron > Squall hype. I'm bored and want a contest. ....grrrrr. ...Maybe Cecil can get in...WITH a decent match picture! ....against...like...Butz >_> |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/7/2008 4:27:05 PM | message detail |
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Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Auron won, but he hasn't done
anything to prove to me he's there yet. Besides, this stats topic needs
some debating! And yeah, I don't think Master Chief is really up there with Ryu and Sora yet (nor will he ever be, I doubt), but he's always a source of intrigue. --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| ZFS | Posted 7/7/2008 4:55:20 PM | message detail |
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how for some reason Master Chief is going from losing to Sub-Zero to
being put in conversations with the likes of Ryu, forgetting that the
Chief has done nothing ever but show that he has the biggest illusion
of contest strength ever. Master Chief has had Halo 3 come out since that match -- and his performance last year was great. Not going to argue the points, but he's not being arbitrarily put up there by some. --- Where there are cardboard boxes, there will always be Solid Snake. |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/7/2008 4:56:59 PM | message detail |
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Everyone knows why his performance last
year was great, and even people like me (who took Sub-Zero over Master
Chief) had him going far. It wouldn't hold up in a one-on-one
environment. Honestly, I don't know if Halo 3 will help him that much.
I'm not entirely certain that Halo 2 did that much for him. --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| ZFS | Posted 7/7/2008 4:59:32 PM | message detail |
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The Xbox and Xbox 360 are two entirely different beasts. GameFAQs
rejected one and doesn't have a problem with the other. Halo 2 not
doing as much for him doesn't mean Halo 3 would. But I'd agree with you. --- Where there are cardboard boxes, there will always be Solid Snake. |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/7/2008 5:01:45 PM | message detail |
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I suppose you're right about the 360. He did seem to improve from round 1 to round 2, but that contest means squat to me. I think he could probably beat Sub-Zero now (although that Mortal Kombat vs. DC could put Subby back over the top!!), but it'd still be close. I might still take the blue ninja in a rematch, although it's hard to say. --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| RPGuy96 | Posted 7/7/2008 5:10:50 PM | message detail |
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GameFAQs is obviously much happier with the 360 than the original, but
I'm not sure how much of that is because of Halo and how much is
because the 360 has a much bigger library. Unfortunately, we don't have
a Halo 3 ownership poll since the contest was taking place when it was
released, but we do have preorder polls. http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1799 http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=2839 Plan to buy Halo 2: 37.37% Plan to buy Halo 3: 39.22% The Halo 2 poll is about a week from launch compared to Halo 3 being about a month, but those are strikingly similar numbers. --- Mustache...and green... |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/7/2008 8:00:36 PM | message detail |
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It's getting around contest announcement season, hopefully! --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| HaRRicH | Posted 7/7/2008 8:47:11 PM | message detail |
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To me, it seems obvious that the lead character of the game that
followed FFVII is going to get SFF'd harder than the guy from the game
on the next system and three games after FFVII. Cloud and Squall
sharing more of a fanbase than Cloud and Auron is almost common sense
to me. Point taken, but it's still a four-point difference after Squall had a revival of sorts in KH. Just how much of that extra SFF do you wanna say comes from Squall and Cloud coming from the same era? Also, for whatever it's worth, Squall smashing Tidus shows that PS2-FF doesn't always hold up well to PS1-FF...and, while that would give hope to Squall against Auron, that also takes away from Squall's excuse against Cloud. Interesting, but hard to care much about that particular point as it doesn't matter much either way. And I don't know if Auron being able to SFF the FFX crew more than Squall can SFF the FFVIII crew really counts for anything. After all, it's pure SFF, so you have to take it with a grain of salt. I mean, we've seen those things not count for squat before (Yoshi > Mario and Bowser, yo!). I think those things make a difference in multiway polls moreso than one-on-one, as we saw Yoshi do fairly well while Bowser bombed. I would think it does mean something. As of the time of these polls, I would take Tidus, Rikku, and Yuna over anybody not named Squall from FF8...and Auron beat all of them considerably worse than Squall beat Zell or Seifer. I understand it's pure SFF, but in a Squall/Auron match, SFF matters (which I'm coming back to, hang on). Auron's taken care of multiple big-name characters we're seen repeatedly before, and all at once to boot. I think that matters for this SFF-match (coming back to it!). As for Yoshi -- and Knuckles, while we're at it -- for every example you can find where the winner's been unreliable, there have been two or more where it is reliable. Strongest SF-fighter? Strongest MK-fighter? Strongest FF7-character? Strongest FF-game? I know you don't really think Squall or Auron would be beaten by anybody else from their games, but let's clear up that these polls in particular are probably accurate for their time. Since then, I'm sure Squall has increased on his cast, and I figure Auron's around 33% today despite FFX-2. Regardless, I doubt Squall and Auron would be an SFF match, and FFX being more popular than FFVIII doesn't count for that much because characters =/= games and I don't think the popularity disparity is that large. Besides, if we want to talk about the KH advantage, I think Squall being in both rather than one should help him out. Plus, you never get to fight against Auron in the Coliseum, which is one of the big draws about having FF characters in Kingdom Hearts, I think. Squall being in both most definitely should benefit from it. It just didn't seem like he gained a lot from it strength-wise in 2006 or last year, and -- while it probably makes him more resistant to KH-SFF from Auron -- Auron's now capable of taking some of that from Squall. A similar premise is going on with Solid Snake and Mario/Samus lately. About SFF-matches: I consider Squall/Auron an SFF-match (or same fanbase match if you want to be picky about it)...whether we see SFF in the match or not, it's a match with very similar fanbases and a chance something fishy could happen between them. If Squall/Tidus or Squall/Aeris/Sora/Lara can be called SFF-matches, Squall/Auron can too. I consider Squall/Vincent a SFF-match too because of the similar fanbases. --- Our NRT-champions: Pokemon R/B/Y -- SF64 -- DKC2 Pledge here: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=43361212 |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/7/2008 9:01:15 PM | message detail |
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Just how much of that extra SFF do you wanna say comes from Squall and Cloud coming from the same era? It's not just coming from the same era. It's the fact that FFVIII was the direct followup to FFVII. That means a lot here. Many, many people bought FFVIII solely because of FFVII, and many people got into the series starting at FFVII, so the comparisons between the two are many. I'd say the bond between them is the closest for any two FF characters not from the same game. And you haven't given me any reason to believe Auron could beat Squall other than those old Favorite FF Character polls. While they may have some merit (as you've pointed out), there's just no way of knowing for sure. They're way outdated, and FFX-2 and the KH series being released since those polls were taken prevent me from calling them reliable any longer. As I said before, it's hard to say if Squall benefited at all from KHII. He didn't get much of a chance in 2006, and 2007 means squat, although he did stay right there with Sonic for two straight matches, for whatever that's worth. He did maintain pace with Vincent, who had Dirge of Cerberus, which tells me that Squall at least boosted a little bit. Oh, and as far as Auron beating Tidus and Yuna being that worthwhile: http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1445 Terra and Cecil beat them both, and we know how pathetic they are in these contests. Now you may say that Cloud is more likely to SFF Tidus and Yuna than Terra and Cecil, and you probably have a valid point there. However, I think it just solidifies the argument that, while Tidus and Yuna are popular and well-liked, they're not heavy favorites. --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| HaRRicH | Posted 7/7/2008 9:20:44 PM | message detail |
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I would discredit it more for us comparing characters #3-#6, especially
when there's only 5% difference between third and sixth place...plus
Tidus and Yuna are the only pair from the same game to my knowledge.
All the other characters come from a different game each as I
understand it (though I'm not familiar with Bartz). The polls we've
been using have compared first place to the rest of the people
(specifically in blow-outs so it's clear), and there certainly wasn't
Cloud to contend with in those polls other than the one-on-one examples
I mentioned earlier. I'll agree that it shows neither Tidus nor Yuna have many hardcore fans, but if it had just been Tidus then he would have had a decent chance to get third place...and Yuna would have done better on her own, too. The point is that they sucked in the poll though, I get it. Just saying...between Cloud (plus Squall) and us comparing #3-#6 after that with LFF between Tidus/Yuna who are all already close together, it holds no weight compared to what we've been arguing over. --- Our NRT-champions: Pokemon R/B/Y -- SF64 -- DKC2 Pledge here: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=43361212 |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/7/2008 9:25:52 PM | message detail |
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Honestly, FFX characters outside of Auron have plenty of haters. Sure,
they're more popular than nearly all FFVIII characters, but none of
them are really big favorites. Auron winning big surprises no one.
Favorites polls are a lot different from one-on-one matches though, as
we've established. I'm surprised we never had a Favorite FFIX Character
poll, though that's got nothing to do with anything at the moment.
Someone needs to petition Bacon for more favorites polls! At the very
least, it'd give us something to talk about! And yeah, I admitted that the evidence from that poll isn't exactly overwhelming, but still, Squall beats down Tidus and Yuna fairly easily in that poll himself, even if you put them both together. --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| HaRRicH | Posted 7/7/2008 11:20:28 PM | message detail |
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I think I can sum up my view: if Tidus/Rikku/Yuna/etc. have plenty of
haters and lack hardcore fans, where does that put
Zell/Riona/Seifer/etc.? Squall beat Selphie by ~25% while Auron beat Tidus by ~26%. Auron nearly tripled Rikku while Squall couldn't double Zell. Other comparisons of SFF include: -> A direct comparison against Cloud said even after KH came out, Squall is 4% behind Auron (more on this later). -> Auron did ~1% better against Crono than Vincent after winning a close fight against Squall. -> FFX > FF8 in various mediums and degrees of victory for years. Squall apparently doesn't compare well to Auron when contested within Square's fanbase. Frankly speaking, Squall looks unarmed compared to Auron without KH. Now that Auron has KH2 to dig even a little bit into Squall's KH-territory, I don't think Squall would easily fend him off. We don't need specific matches to show Squall or Auron has a specific indirect statistical advantage; we agree it's close and could go either way, so it becomes a battle of who the fanbase prefers. Where I'm failing to see it like you is how Squall withstands Auron in Square's camp. Are the FF8/X-polls too outdated to not only be accurate but vaguely represent how it is today? Do you feel like Crono dropped that much between 2k5 and 2k6? How much leeway are you willing to give Squall against Cloud (read the bottom of the post). Does Squall have such a clear advantage with the KH series that KH2 won't matter for Auron? Do you think Auron couldn't match Squall's performances against Vincent, Tidus, Aeris, or Sora? I know you're not big on the FFX > FF8 part of the debate, but -- while it's a small point at best -- I think that's still an important fact to consider in an SFF-match. Pretty much, if we agree they're close together and we could see it go either way, we should try to look specifically within the fanbase instead of the x-stats. Within it, I think Auron's SFF-resume looks better and that he could probably match the SFF-situations Squall has been in. Where do you see Squall clearly ahead enough to bring it home? About Cloud/Squall: point taken on the FF7/FF8 comparisons. I had forgotten how heavy the hype and comparisons once were (still are?). Still, a 4%-difference between them despite KH doesn't seem right to just ignore. I'll cut Squall some slack about this from here on out, but I don't think this makes them even. --- Our NRT-champions: Pokemon R/B/Y -- SF64 -- DKC2 Pledge here: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=43361212 |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/8/2008 7:45:47 AM | message detail |
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Auron nearly tripled Rikku while Squall couldn't double Zell. Again, outdated polls back from when Squall hatred was at its highest. Squall would easily double Zell now in another poll, guaranteed. Besides, Vincent doubled Tifa back in that old FFVII character poll, and I know that match wouldn't be a blowout. Cloud didn't double Vincent, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't destroy him to Midgar and back. These polls have weak points because they're favorites polls, nothing more. -> Auron did ~1% better against Crono than Vincent after winning a close fight against Squall. This feels like selective reasoning because you're leaving out the fact that Vincent did much better on a Sonic that went on to beat Crono that year. Squall apparently doesn't compare well to Auron when contested within Square's fanbase. Frankly speaking, Squall looks unarmed compared to Auron without KH. No kidding. I wouldn't even consider Squall > Auron if he didn't have KH, but he does. However, Auron being in KHII doesn't negate what KH did for Squall, in my opinion. I know this is shaky ground, but Squall ended up doing much better against Sub-Zero in the 2007 contest than Auron did in 2006. Plus, he ended up beating Aeris so bad that she practically looked like she was on level with Akuma and Lara Croft. He easily outclassed Sora once Aeris was taken out of the way. Remember that Sora did to Mega Man about what Auron did to Crono, and those two were practically equals in 2006. I really don't see SFF making the difference in this one, to be quite honest. It'd end up more like Squall/Vincent. --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/8/2008 7:52:06 AM | message detail |
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By the way, Bacon, you'd better be paying attention! I want Squall/Auron now! --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/8/2008 7:54:19 AM | message detail |
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And to be quite honest, probably the main thing holding me back from
thinking Auron could beat Squall is the Ganondorf match. I know he's
had KHII since then, but that was just...pathetic. I couldn't ever see
Squall jobbing to Ganon like that. Vincent's easy victory over Ganon
the next year just confirmed that in my mind. --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| H__RR____H | Posted 7/8/2008 8:09:38 AM | message detail |
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This feels like selective reasoning because you're leaving out the
fact that Vincent did much better on a Sonic that went on to beat Crono
that year. DoC:FF7...and the English release of Advent Children if you think that's important. This also reminds me: Vincent and Squall may have been over-rated in 2005 if the FF:AC leak did him any favors between Vincent/Squall and Vincent/Crono. In hindsight, I doubt much or even any, but it's still food for thought. However, Auron being in KHII doesn't negate what KH did for Squall, in my opinion. He doesn't have to much. If we were judging solely the KH-fanbase, I would think Squall has a clear advantage on Auron. As is, however, it's a much larger fanbase we're dealing with. I think Auron has the edge in many other categories, and Squall wouldn't theoretically have his entire KH-fanbase to back him up for this because Auron's now made a dent in it. Auron is narrowing Squall's biggest advantage, not taking it or negating it entirely., and I think Auron would have the FF-support to finish him off the rest of the way. I'll agree Ganondorf is a bit of a blemish in Auron's record, but Ganon was still odd that year thanks to probably the Villain Contest. Between them being behind Samus/Ganon and Mario/Samus though, it's hard to say just how much of a blemish it is...plus, really, if losing to Ganon at his peak is the worst thing against Auron, that's not bad at all. --- Lobby Hero http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/3079/lobbyheroauditionflyerssv6.jpg |
| Mac Arrowny | Posted 7/8/2008 8:35:53 AM | message detail |
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I think the difference between Squall and Auron's roles in KH is that KH made people who actively disliked Squall like him instead. It certainly didn't do that for Auron. --- All the stars in the sky are waiting for you. Brawl FC: 4253-3155-6697 |
| Yesmar | Posted 7/8/2008 9:24:09 AM | message detail |
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I don't think that Auron's performance in 2005 is that unexplainable.
Basing him in 2003/2004 off of 2004 Tails (since the rest of Sonic Team
appeared to stay roughly the same between the years) puts him at 32.77
on Base Link, which I'll bump up to 33, since Scorpion indicates a
higher ranking if you extrapolate off of him. Now taking that into
account he didn't drop by that much at all in 2005, especially when you
take into account that Tidus himself dropped by just as much if not
more between 2004 and 2005. --- You need to meet someone at a garden, or a movie or something. Somewhere classy. Like a cooking recipe message board or something.--True Godhand/Curt |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/8/2008 9:53:28 AM | message detail |
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I never said it was unexplainable. It was just pathetic. I couldn't ever see that happening to Squall. DoC:FF7...and the English release of Advent Children if you think that's important. And Squall maintained pace with Vincent in spite of those things, if you don't think there's anything wrong with Snake/Sonic. I used to because it makes the 2006 stats look so weird, but after the 2007 contest and still seeing Snake own Sonic, I'm not so sure. Maybe Mega Man actually overperformed back then. This also reminds me: Vincent and Squall may have been over-rated in 2005 if the FF:AC leak did him any favors between Vincent/Squall and Vincent/Crono. At this point, it seems pretty obvious (at least to me) that Knuckles was the anomaly in the Devil Division, not Vincent. And I was going to mention what Mac said earlier, but I forgot. I doubt very many people changed their minds about Auron because of KHII. He's basically the same character, though his role is very awesome. Plus, KHII and FFX are part of the same generation, which would probably make his boost less exceptional. --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
| swirIdude | Posted 7/8/2008 10:26:49 AM | message detail |
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Not to derail this discussion, but are there any new characters
(debuting after Summer 2007) that could make the field if we have a
character battle this year? --- SSBB FC: 4425-1156-3590 The people who play Final Fantasy 7 actually have lives and dont NEED polls ~MajinUltima |
| PaulThaPirate | Posted 7/8/2008 10:37:06 AM | message detail |
| uh....Travis Touchdown? |
| PaulThaPirate | Posted 7/8/2008 10:38:33 AM | message detail |
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And I suppose one of the new bosses from MGS4. ...Technically. |
| PaulThaPirate | Posted 7/8/2008 10:40:10 AM | message detail |
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Oh, and I guess this is as good a time as ever... Nominate Cecil from Final Fantasy IV! Last time he got stuck against a character starring on the same console as him, and he'll soon be getting (another) new game! Maybe he'll be able to do..uh.....something to uh.....someone! |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 7/8/2008 10:44:00 AM | message detail |
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New, as in didn't exist prior to the last contest? Good question. ...Apollo Justice? --- "But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." |
