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Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 527

The n00b Avenger | Posted 10/21/2007 1:24:25 PM | message detail
Meh. Even after Ryu's round 1 perfomance people were mostly 50-50 on who would win that match(well maybe it was more like 60-40), and it's not like he lost by a large amount. Certainly he disappointed a few people but that's not enough to be a turd
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Lady Ashe | Posted 10/21/2007 1:30:29 PM | message detail
"There's a decent, if not high, shot that the eventual winner isn't even on the leaderboard right now."

I give it about 10% at max. A lot of what remains is cookie, and the parts that aren't are pretty much all covered by someone on the board. Plus if you look at Moltar's remaining picks, Ganondorf's matches are the only ones that really stand out as not being the favourite. (Other than L-Block but that hardly counts)
~~~
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creativename | Posted 10/21/2007 1:31:38 PM | message detail
To you of course, regarding the Pokemon and Arcus.

I don't quite follow (assuming you mean Aeris), what winners, and what situation?

Let's have fun and declare them all turds.

Star/turd stuff is always fun :)


Meh. Even after Ryu's round 1 perfomance people were mostly 50-50 on who would win that match(well maybe it was more like 60-40), and it's not like he lost by a large amount. Certainly he disappointed a few people but that's not enough to be a turd

Well, it's worse than pretty much every other character this round. It wasn't actually much of a turd-filled round, and Hayabusa was about as bad as it got.

Certainly in this topic he was a huge favorite, with more than one poster thinking anyone who thought Riku had a real shot was just completely nuts.

And I just checked the Oracle, Hayabusa had 76 picks out of 107, 24 had Riku higher, and 7 were ties. So win equity of 74.3% for him.
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creativename | Posted 10/21/2007 1:34:16 PM | message detail
I give it about 10% at max. A lot of what remains is cookie, and the parts that aren't are pretty much all covered by someone on the board. Plus if you look at Moltar's remaining picks, Ganondorf's matches are the only ones that really stand out as not being the favourite. (Other than L-Block but that hardly counts)

It's probably higher than 10%, though not greatly higher. But yeah, you're right about most of the possibilities likely being covered.
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Mac Arrowny | Posted 10/21/2007 1:38:57 PM | message detail
Meh, all we need is a few crazy upsets (let's say Link > Zero, MC > Sonic, and Cloud > Link) and the leaderboard is completely wrecked.
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Lady Ashe | Posted 10/21/2007 1:42:37 PM | message detail
Considering those are three of a total of... five possible upsets, one of which everybody is getting wrong, that seems a bit unlikely.

Especially since MC > Sonic and Cloud > Link can't possibly happen in the same contest. <_<
~~~
Ashe. The Cream of Final Fantasy Fanboyism.
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charmander6000 | Posted 10/21/2007 1:59:54 PM | message detail
Rank the remaining characters.

1. Link
2. Cloud
3. Sephiroth
4. Mario
5. Solid Snake
6. Samus
7. Sonic
8. Mega Man
9. Vincent
10. Crono
11. Ganondorf
12. Master Chief
13. Squall
14. Auron
15. Sora
16. Ryu
17. Kratos
18. Yoshi
19. Dante
20. Luigi
21. Zero
22. Sub-Zero
23. L-Block
24. Riku
25. Leon Kennedy
26. Yuna
27. Scorpion
28. Pikachu
29. Fox McCloud
30. Marcus Fenix
31. Big Boss
32. Amaterasu

Samus/Snake could be flipped, 9-13 could be put in almost any order, same with 16-21.
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Match 49: Mega Man > Samus Points: 181/256
H__RR____H | Posted 10/21/2007 2:01:01 PM | message detail
I don't think Moltar's bracket should be all that favored to win it all anyway. Granted, he's in first right now by eight points, but all it takes is one mess-up and somebody can tie him again...and Ganon is almost certainly going to wreck him, since Ganon coming in first this round and/or next round will probably not happen (and there's even a chance Ganon won't make it to the next round). I don't mean to be a nay-sayer since I really hope somebody from Board 8 wins it all...but if Ganon crashes, then Moltar's probably going to need the rest of his upsets to come through for him. I've got to call Auron the favorite over Ryu, and Dante/Leon is a toss-up as far as I'm concerned...then, of course, there's the battle of Vincent and Crono, Solid/Sonic/MC, and the small small chance that Cloud upsets Link this year.

I say all this thinking my bracket has a good chance to pass him up, but it ain't just me -- with as much as the points cost this late in the game, some minor botches will probably cost him major points to other brackets. He's got the big lead right now, but I question how long it'll last with Ganon alongside the other toss-up matches.
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Damn, most of my dates involve mocking and/or beating up people like you and your bride-to-be, so I really have no advice --Horatio
H__RR____H | Posted 10/21/2007 2:03:09 PM | message detail
That said, I'm almost certain whoever wins comes from Board 8. Can somebody scan the list of people on the Top Fifty right now and point out who isn't from this board today? Barring MC pulling even more wonders than expected, I figure they can only dwindle.
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Damn, most of my dates involve mocking and/or beating up people like you and your bride-to-be, so I really have no advice --Horatio
Mac Arrowny | Posted 10/21/2007 2:08:06 PM | message detail
Ganon's being too dismissed for next round, IMO. He stands a great chance of winning there, especially if "casual LFF" comes through.
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H__RR____H | Posted 10/21/2007 2:10:08 PM | message detail
Just scanning the Top Fifty, I think twenty-seven usernames come from this board...and I don't keep up with much here outside of the CS&D topics anymore. Odds are very favorable that one of them are winning...and, if not, then there's still a decent chance that a different board user here wins instead.
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Damn, most of my dates involve mocking and/or beating up people like you and your bride-to-be, so I really have no advice --Horatio
smitelf | Posted 10/21/2007 2:12:06 PM | message detail
I haven't looked too closely at any more than the first two divisions at this point. But at the moment, I say that I agree with your list, except I'd switch Samus and Solid Snake's positions and Crono and Vincent's positions.
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H__RR____H | Posted 10/21/2007 2:16:46 PM | message detail
Ganon's simply going to have a hard time GETTING to the next round -- between how potentially bad his picture could be, battling with Luigi, probably not THAT big of a favorite among LoZ fans a la Bowser, and competing with a jacked-up MC and Yuna who has likely gotten stronger since Ganon/Yuna 2k5...it could spell doom.

If Ganon advances this round as second (which would be great for my bracket!), then yeah, he'll have a solid shot next round at first. I'd still rather take 44% on Yuna/Alucard/Liquid than 49% on Ratchet/Thrall/Vergil...but considering Dante and Leon have more in common with MC than Ganon, I wouldn't rule out such a possibility either. It's just a matter of Ganon advancing THIS round.
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Damn, most of my dates involve mocking and/or beating up people like you and your bride-to-be, so I really have no advice --Horatio
Dilated Chemist | Posted 10/21/2007 2:17:56 PM | message detail
1. Link
2. Cloud
3. Sephiroth
4. Solid Snake
5. Mario
6. Samus Aran
7. Sonic the Hedgehog
8. Ganondorf
9. Master Chief
10. Vincent Valentine
11. Mega Man
12. Crono
13. Squall
14. Auron
15. Sora
16. Luigi
17. Ryu
18. Yoshi
19. Dante
20. Kratos
21. Zero
22. L-Block
23. Leon Kennedy
24. Sub-Zero
25. Riku
26. Yuna
27. Scorpion
28. Big Boss
29. Pikachu
30. Marcus Fenix
31. Fox McCloud
32. Amaterasu

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BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 10/21/2007 2:19:23 PM | message detail
1. Link
2. Cloud
3. Sephiroth
4. Mario
5. Samus
6. Solid Snake
7. Sonic
8. Mega Man
9. Crono
10. Vincent
11. Ganondorf
12. Squall
13. Auron
14. Sora
15. Ryu
16. Yoshi
17. Dante
18. Luigi
19. Zero
20. Master Chief
21. Kratos
22. Leon Kennedy
23. Sub-Zero
24. L-Block
25. Riku
26. Yuna
27. Pikachu
28. Fox McCloud
29. Scorpion
30. Marcus Fenix
31. Big Boss
32. Amaterasu

Just a few changes, and assuming 1v1 format

From Sora to Master Chief is a very close pack of characters that I'd expect to have really close 1v1 matches with each other.

TuRtLe
~~~
205/256 in the contest. Next pick: Samus > Mega Man
BlAcK TuRtLe. The cream of Zero fanboyism
H__RR____H | Posted 10/21/2007 2:25:37 PM | message detail
27. Pikachu
28. Fox McCloud


Not that we haven't already seen Sora return the favor to Aeris for what happened in 2k3...but I don't foresee Pikachu returning favors here. Fox beat Pikachu worse than Aeris beat Sora, Pikachu's done less to regain his name than Sora did since 2k3, and we're talking head-to-head here as opposed to what happened in Squall's four-pack afew days ago.

Just saying...you sure?
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Damn, most of my dates involve mocking and/or beating up people like you and your bride-to-be, so I really have no advice --Horatio
H__RR____H | Posted 10/21/2007 2:27:00 PM | message detail
Same goes to DC and charmander -- what's happening here?
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Damn, most of my dates involve mocking and/or beating up people like you and your bride-to-be, so I really have no advice --Horatio
transience | Posted 10/21/2007 2:28:28 PM | message detail
Hayabusa should not be the turd. period.

if you're going to call someone the dud of the round based on lofty round 1 expectations that they set for themselves, wouldn't Sub-Zero be a better pick? seriously. at least Ryu had some favourable bracket placement to make him look better than he was; Sub has no excuse. and if you're going to go that route - performing like crazy and then returning to earth for round 2 - wouldn't Tifa and Vincent in 2005 be the biggest duds of all time?
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xyzzy
Draco1214 | Posted 10/21/2007 2:29:46 PM | message detail
Turd of the round is Magus or Balthier. Period.
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creativename | Posted 10/21/2007 2:32:31 PM | message detail
Everyone is putting Kratos ahead of L-Block? That surprises me.

Are people ranking for 1-on-1 or for this format?

I'll rank the top 14 (this format), don't see a point to going beyond that.

1. Link
2. Cloud
3. Sephiroth
4. Solid Snake
5. Mario
6. Samus
7. Sonic
8. Mega Man
9. Master Chief
10. Crono
11. Vincent
12. Auron
13. Ganondorf
14. Squall

The most controversial thing here will probably be putting Master Chief above Crono and Vincent. I was tempted to put Master Chief above Mega Man as well.

I'm also really not sure where Ganon fits. He could be above Auron, or below Squall.
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charmander6000 | Posted 10/21/2007 2:32:36 PM | message detail
I'd take Pikachu > Fox one on one, he's quite different than what he was in 2k3. Also I had Pikachu > Fox in that match.
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Match 49: Mega Man > Samus Points: 181/256
Draco1214 | Posted 10/21/2007 2:34:10 PM | message detail
Pikachu only made it to the third round because of SFF. I'd take Fox > Pikachu one-on-one simply because I think Fox is quite strong, plus Pikachu would have antivotes to contend with.
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H__RR____H | Posted 10/21/2007 2:35:24 PM | message detail
Here's a real quick doing of the list from me...I may or may not defend it:

1. Link
2. Cloud
3. Sephiroth
4. Mario
5. Samus
6. Solid Snake
7. Sonic
8. Crono
9. Mega Man
10. Vincent
11. Ganondorf
12. Auron
13. Squall
14. Sora
15. Yoshi
16. Leon Kennedy
17. Master Chief
18. Dante
19. Luigi
20. Ryu
21. Sub-Zero
22. Kratos
23. Zero
24. Yuna
25. Fox McCloud
26. Riku
27. L-Block
28. Scorpion
29. Pikachu
30. Marcus Fenix
31. Big Boss (with his typical first round picture)
32. Amaterasu
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Damn, most of my dates involve mocking and/or beating up people like you and your bride-to-be, so I really have no advice --Horatio
transience | Posted 10/21/2007 2:37:10 PM | message detail
ranking the characters?

1. Link
2. Cloud
3. Seph
4. Snake
5. Mario
6. Samus
7. Master Chief
8. Mega Man
9. Sonic
10. Auron
11. Crono
12. Vincent
13. Squall
14. Ganondorf
15. Yoshi
16. Ryu
17. Sora
18. Dante
19. Luigi
20. Zero
21. Leon
22. Kratos
23. Sub-Zero
24. L-Block
25. Yuna
26. Scorpion
27. Riku
28. Fox
29. Big Boss
30. Pikachu
31. Marcus Fenix
32. Amaterasu

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xyzzy
creativename | Posted 10/21/2007 2:38:12 PM | message detail
Hayabusa should not be the turd. period.

Either Hayabusa or Kirby should be turd of the round, Period, End of Discussion ;)

if you're going to call someone the dud of the round based on lofty round 1 expectations that they set for themselves, wouldn't Sub-Zero be a better pick?

Sub-Zero's a decent turd candidate, but everyone knew he was getting 2nd getting, and there was the Brawl factor (and the Shredder factor too, if you count that). He would be a bad choice for overall turd, though maybe he merits semi-honorable mention.

performing like crazy and then returning to earth for round 2 - wouldn't Tifa and Vincent in 2005 be the biggest duds of all time?

Tifa was kind of a dud (though obviously not remotely close to all-time dud), but what was wrong with Vincent? Beating Dante is pretty good.


Turd of the round is Magus or Balthier. Period.

Magus would be a pretty stupid candidate. He was the underdog by the time the match rolled around for goodness sake. You can say he was a mega turd in round 1 - he was a turd then because he sucked in that match, and it was from that match he became a toss-up against Big Boss, who previously he was expected to beat handily. He's a bad candidate for round 2 turd though, so many characters did worse than him.
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transience | Posted 10/21/2007 2:38:13 PM | message detail
L-Block is a complete wildcard here - not its strength, but its performance seems to depend on the situation. Kratos/weak character/weak character/L-Block and Kratos wins; Kratos/strong character/strong character/L and L wins.
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xyzzy
transience | Posted 10/21/2007 2:38:58 PM | message detail
Tifa was kind of a dud (though obviously not remotely close to all-time dud), but what was wrong with Vincent? Beating Dante is pretty good.

do you not remember you and others talking about how Vincent would *crush* Dante? and then apologizing afterwards?
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xyzzy
Dilated Chemist | Posted 10/21/2007 2:40:06 PM | message detail
^5 creative!

We both have Solid Snake at #4.

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creativename | Posted 10/21/2007 2:40:27 PM | message detail
Also Balthier is obviously not the turd - he's only the turd-by-proxy this round anyway via Ada. In round 1 he was uber-turd, because he went from clear choice to take 2nd against Dante to having no shot.
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H__RR____H | Posted 10/21/2007 2:42:09 PM | message detail
I assumed the list was one-on-one.




Allow me to try justifying why I feel Pikachu wouldn't beat Fox even today:

---Pikachu got 24.14% in a match where Leon Kennedy got first and Vivi/Tidus hurt each other.
---Fox got 19.74% in a match where Sephiroth got first and Wario/Meta Knight hurt Fox.
---Sephiroth SMOKES Leon, and having Vivi/Tidus tied together is much more beneficial to our two prospects here than having having Wario and MK tied to either prospect.

Throw in that Fox beat the hell out of Pikachu in 2k3 and -- unlike Aeris/Sora -- hasn't had much reason to change, and I think Fox > Pikachu is a very easy decision even today.
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Damn, most of my dates involve mocking and/or beating up people like you and your bride-to-be, so I really have no advice --Horatio
Dilated Chemist | Posted 10/21/2007 2:42:26 PM | message detail
And ^5 trans!

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Our life is short and our days run; as fast away as does the sun. And as a vapour or a drop of rain; once lost can ne'er be found again.
creativename | Posted 10/21/2007 2:46:31 PM | message detail
do you not remember you and others talking about how Vincent would *crush* Dante? and then apologizing afterwards?

Heh, wow I totally forgot that :)

Actually it's coming back to me now a bit, I apologized because the match was 50/50 early on, and I think I had said Vincent was the obvious choice (or something?). If I had known where Vincent would finish I might not have bothered. I don't remember my thought process though, so I'm not sure.

The Oracle consensus was Vincent with 55.93%. He was a dud compared to my 62% prediction ;) but overall, obviously not.
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creativename | Posted 10/21/2007 2:49:50 PM | message detail
^5 creative!

We both have Solid Snake at #4.


:)

I think I said this earlier too, but I think I might take Snake indirectly over Mario in 1-on-1 format. I don't think he'd beat Mario heads-up, but I think he might be indirectly stronger. And in this format, he's definitely been crazy impressive.


On Pikachu/Fox, in this format it would be a tricky choice...I think I'd lean towards Fox, but wouldn't be confident. 1-on-1 I take Fox without much thought.
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H__RR____H | Posted 10/21/2007 2:53:21 PM | message detail
In this format...depends on the other choices, but I'm still probably going to take Fox.
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Damn, most of my dates involve mocking and/or beating up people like you and your bride-to-be, so I really have no advice --Horatio
H__RR____H | Posted 10/21/2007 2:58:24 PM | message detail
Also, I brought this up at the beginning of the contest...but now that we're seeing Samus have a firm lead on Mega Man with Yoshi in the mix and MP3:C being fresh AS WELL AS Auron having a legit shot to advance another round, is there any room to believe Samus > Cloud next round?
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Damn, most of my dates involve mocking and/or beating up people like you and your bride-to-be, so I really have no advice --Horatio
Cavalier Lowen | Posted 10/21/2007 3:03:19 PM | message detail
1. Link
2. Cloud
3. Sephiroth
4. Mario
5. Samus
6. Snake
7. Sonic the Hedgehog
7. Mega Man
9. Vincent Valentine
10. Ganondorf
11. Master Cheif
12. Crono
13. Squall
14. Auron
15. Luigi
16. Sora
17. Ryu
18. Yoshi
19. Dante
20. Leon Kennedy
21. Zero
22. Kratos
23. Sub-Zero
24. Yuna
25. Riku
26. Scorpion
27. L-Block
28. Pikachu
29. Big Boss
30. Fox
31. Fenix
32. Amaterasu

(note: this is for 1 vs 1...and yes that's not an error, I still consider MM vs. Sonic about equal)
RPGGamer0 | Posted 10/21/2007 3:24:03 PM | message detail
I don't want to bother ranking all of the characters, but I think anyone putting Big Boss under all these characters (Round 2 pic) are crazy.

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H__RR____H | Posted 10/21/2007 3:25:34 PM | message detail
Definitely, though I noted my Big Boss was only with his first round pics.
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Damn, most of my dates involve mocking and/or beating up people like you and your bride-to-be, so I really have no advice --Horatio
transience | Posted 10/21/2007 3:32:10 PM | message detail
Samus > Cloud has NO chance. MAAAAAAAAAAAYBE if Auron makes the poll... but uh, even that's pushing it.
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xyzzy
H__RR____H | Posted 10/21/2007 3:34:41 PM | message detail
Oh yeah, most certainly no chance if Ryu beats Auron tomorrow. I'm just curious how much Auron could hurt Cloud next round.
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Damn, most of my dates involve mocking and/or beating up people like you and your bride-to-be, so I really have no advice --Horatio
transience | Posted 10/21/2007 3:35:28 PM | message detail
Mega Man would probably hurt Samus about as much, not to mention that Cloud is already a mile ahead of Samus.
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xyzzy
transience | Posted 10/21/2007 3:35:40 PM | message detail
first 5-10 minutes could be interesting though.
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xyzzy
Lopen | Posted 10/21/2007 3:38:47 PM | message detail
So anyone still humoring Cloud > Mega Man next round? Samus is winning, yes, but it's not a huge gap and there's always a chance Yoshi's hurting Mega Man more and/or that Mega Man's fanbase is more loyal with stronger characters around.

Yes I'm entirely bringing this up because I have it in my bracket!
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KamikazePotato | Posted 10/21/2007 3:40:11 PM | message detail
Likely? No. Possible?

Have you seen some of the results we've had? Almost anything is possible at this point.
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Mac Arrowny | Posted 10/21/2007 3:42:32 PM | message detail
Mega Man would probably hurt Samus about as much, not to mention that Cloud is already a mile ahead of Samus.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1779

Well, they're not that far apart. If MP3 boosts Samus up a percent or so there, Auron just has to hurt him another 8% or so.

Which isn't likely or anything, but it's still a remote possibility.
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BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 10/21/2007 3:43:04 PM | message detail
If Bowser was there, I would say maybe. I actually was counting on Bowser being there when I made my Cloud > MM pick. As it stands, I don't think MM has a chance. Then again, we've seen stranger things this year. Maybe Cloud "hardcore" SFFs Samus or something.

TuRtLe
~~~
205/256 in the contest. Next pick: Samus > Mega Man
BlAcK TuRtLe. The cream of Zero fanboyism
Lopen | Posted 10/21/2007 3:44:58 PM | message detail
Well, I'm more than humoring it, I'm thinking it'll happen.

I was just wondering if anyone else thinks it'll happen too or I'm just totally delusional based on my bracket and "OMG THE KING OF SFF" denial. Heh heh. Something about Samus doing so badly in last year's battle royal just sticks out to me. I realize Link and freaking Mario were there... but... still.
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H__RR____H | Posted 10/21/2007 4:03:18 PM | message detail
Yeah, Mega Man ought to keep it out of reach for Samus, but the thought still lingers with me.



Speaking of Auron, I want to bring up what I said early last round and push this idea again: if Auron can hold up to Cloud tomorrow as well as how Yoshi to Mega Man or Ryu to Bowser (first round) in respect to their head-to-head matches in the past, Auron's looking to be in great shape. When the other two opponents were weaker than the two who had faced each other before (Cloud/Auron > Ryu/Fenix, Ryu/Bowser > Mewtwo/Toad, Mega/Yoshi > Knux/KOS-MOS), the losers in the head-to-head matches (Ryu, Yoshi) still managed to retain almost exactly the same percentage of votes; they still kept ~88.5% of the votes they got head-to-head despite the likely anomalies in their original matches, and the weaker characters picked on the top character in the poll for most of their votes. Yoshi went from 31.92% against Mega to 28.24% against Mega/Knux/KOS, and Ryu went from 41.02% on Bowser to 36.3% on Bowser/Mewtwo/Toad...

...it's a shaky theory without enough examples to prove it, but Cloud/Auron > Ryu/Fenix so let's try it out. Auron got 27.8% on Cloud...so ~88.5% of that estimates Auron gets ~24.6% on Cloud, assuming Ryu/Fenix don't do anything fishy. Now, from there, keep in mind 2k3 was easily Cloud's most impressive year to date AND Auron has since been in KH2. It's also fun to keep in mind that Auron beat Ryu by 9.67% last round, plus Ryu only got 26.16% last round...while Shadow may be getting replaced with Fenix, Cloud is replacing Bowser, so Ryu's percentage should certainly go down.


It's all just numbers and theory right now, but in afew hours we'll see if we should listen to them on this. Auron could not only win but impress tomorrow if he's got luck on his side. It'll be interesting for sure, regardless of what happens.
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Damn, most of my dates involve mocking and/or beating up people like you and your bride-to-be, so I really have no advice --Horatio
Lopen | Posted 10/21/2007 4:11:12 PM | message detail
I'm not sure Ryu's %age goes down. His match with Bowser in 2005 suggests that Bowser might be a weakness of Ryu's. Why? Who the hell knows. Now with two RPG characters in there SFFing each other being his only real competition for votes (if Marcus gets dropped to 15% last round, he's probably going below 10% this round) I'm thinking Ryu's %age actually goes up from last round, despite Cloud being a beast.

I do also expect Auron to hold up well though, like you're expecting... I'm thinking Cloud looks fairly unimpressive this round.
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H__RR____H | Posted 10/21/2007 4:12:25 PM | message detail
Oh, plus Ryu needs to come out of the gate firing -- bracket votes won't matter too much for Auron or Ryu, and we've seen Ryu's day isn't in the same league as Ryu's night.
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Damn, most of my dates involve mocking and/or beating up people like you and your bride-to-be, so I really have no advice --Horatio
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