GameFAQs Contests
Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 452
| UltimaterializerX | Posted 8/17/2007 6:17:38 PM | message detail |
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They tried to make me go to rehab, but said no no no. *Creativename's websites* Everything you could ever imagine: http://www.GameFAQsContests.com http://www.sc2k5.com http://www.sc2k4.com Sortable Table for Every Contest Match: http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/19 *Extrapolated Standings* Explanation of Extrapolated Standings: http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/11 Simple Explanation of Extrapolated Standings: A = Strongest Character B = Character Weaker than A C = Character Weaker than B To figure out a character's Xsts Percentage ---> [(CvB)(BvA)]/50 = CvA To compare how C would do against B ---> [(CvA)/(BvA)]*50 = CvB To figure out how B would do against A ---> [(CvA)/(CvB)]*50 = BvA Extrapolated Standings for All Contests (links to all brackets are on the left): http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/drupal/ *Solarshadow's Sites* Summer 2002 Contest: http://solarshadow2002.tripod.com Summer 2003 Contest: http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/2003/index.html Spring 2004 Contest: (not currently updating) http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/sp2004/index.html *Old Stats topics* Summer 2002 Contest: http://solarshadow2002.tripod.com/page1.html Summer 2003 Contest: http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/archive/topic1p1.html http://www.angelfire.com/games5/sum_contest/Page1.htm (See note) 2003-2004 Off-Season: http://membres.lycos.fr/shindohikaru/stats1.htm (See note) Note: Don't use the links in the topic to browse through the pages, change the page number in the URL. Spring 2004 Pre-Season (Chance the number after "Season" to view other pages; there are three of them): http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringPreSeason1.htm Spring 2004 Contest (Change the number after "Stats" to view other pages; there are eight of them): http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats1.htm *Match Pictures* All the match pics, and thanks to RockMFR for finding the missing ones! http://sc2k5.com/gallery/index.php *Miscellaneous* Creativename's Page of Links: http://sc2k4.com/links.php UltimaterializerX's Contest Sites (some offensive language): http://prophetchallenge.hyperboards2.com/index.cgi http://freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/ NGamer64's Archive Site and (lol) X-Stats Sim (some offensive language): http://thengamer.com/gamefaqs/ http://thengamer.com/xstats http://thengamer.com/stats A List of Acronyms, A Lesson on Percentages, and Some Odd Matches: http://freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/acronymspercentsanomalies.htm All Time Top 10 Lists: http://www.freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/summer2002stats.htm http://www.freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/summer2003stats.htm http://www.freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/spring2004stats.htm http://www.freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/summer2004stats.htm http://www.freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/spring2005stats.htm http://www.freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/summer2005stats.htm http://www.freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/july2006stats.htm http://www.freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/summer2006stats.htm HaRRicH's Fourpack of Fun Board: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=585007 TRE's poll listing (every poll!): http://members.shaw.ca/teamrocketelite/Polls.html Aprosenf's Poll Script: http://www.geocities.com/aprosenf/allpolls.txt GameFAQs' Top 100 Games http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/contest/top10 Manual Poll Updater: http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/pollupdate.php Mudkip in that banner kicks ass. |
| NominateSerge | Posted 8/17/2007 6:17:56 PM | message detail |
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Squall > Sonic --- Vote for Serge. |
| UltimaterializerX | Posted 8/17/2007 6:18:16 PM | message detail |
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I wish. ~*ST*~ --- Petition for a system notification when a contribution is removed: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=37308859 |
| Lady Ashe | Posted 8/17/2007 6:18:31 PM | message detail |
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*insert stupid inequality here* ...Zelda > Smaus ~~~ Ashe. The Cream of Final Fantasy Fanboyism. http://www.board8wiki.com/Lady_Ashe |
| yoshifan823 | Posted 8/17/2007 8:52:58 PM | message detail |
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You know the irony of that song? She OD'd. Also, Subby>Scorpion in the finals. --- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes... |
| XxSoulxX | Posted 8/17/2007 9:00:46 PM | message detail |
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Sonic > Link --- - Owner of TWO sticky topics! Pearl Code: 3952 3520 2488 |
| HeroicTronBonne | Posted 8/17/2007 9:45:28 PM | message detail |
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Crono > Raiden --- Pokemon Pearl Code: 2663-9266-2709 WWEGSB Hardcore Legend and Board 8er Masa/Hiko |
| UltimaterializerX | Posted 8/18/2007 10:25:00 AM | message detail |
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Up. ~*ST*~ --- Petition for a system notification when a contribution is removed: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=37308859 |
| Master Moltar | Posted 8/18/2007 10:26:34 AM | message detail |
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Gordon > Duke > Ike, boy. --- Moltar Status: Bored and slightly sarcastic. The Analysis Crew...believe |
| Zylo the wolf | Posted 8/18/2007 10:28:59 AM | message detail |
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No it's THE DUKE! > Gordon Freeman But Guybrush is by far the best character in that fourpack! --- Ngamer64: Zylo, you're making less sense every day. Proud supporter of Knuckles and Magus in Character Battle VI |
| voltch | Posted 8/18/2007 10:57:27 AM | message detail |
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what happens if gordon re-implodes the universe? --- Rufus shinra destroyed my bracket in the sc2k6 contest. |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 8/18/2007 11:11:49 AM | message detail |
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I've actually put Samus > Frog in the second round because I believe
Midna isn't too far above Frog in the "fan favorite" status. --- Network Premiere of: "GA All The Way." Watch one black kid's desperate search for his Wii. |
| Guess how many teens | Posted 8/18/2007 11:44:13 AM | message detail |
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About Mega Man/Arthas/Diablo/KOS-MOS Does anyone consider it to be possible that Arthas and Diablo somehow SFF each other and KOS-MOS gets through? --- I got owned by Rufus Shinra, the 2k6 CB Guru Champion! The Cream of Smurf FODDER |
| therealmnm | Posted 8/18/2007 11:46:13 AM | message detail |
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Discussion point: The Wii has been
released since the last contest (and the PS3...). How much of an impact
do you guys think it will have had on the contest voting population
since last Fall? I mean we did see what the DS did (or whatever you want to attribute SC2k5's "boost" to...). --- Currently playing: Guitar Hero 2, Gears of War, Saint's Row, SotN (XBLA), Burnout Revenge |
| GrapefruitKing | Posted 8/18/2007 11:46:32 AM | message detail |
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Serge vs. Lloyd Irving. Who would you pick? --- It's a penguin murder mystery !!! |
| PortugalTheMann | Posted 8/18/2007 12:11:19 PM | message detail |
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on the Vincent thing... I feel like it's Mario Kart all over again.
it's something you can explain statistically, it'll be a sexy stats
topic bandwagon pick that a lot of the board will jump on, but when the
time comes for the poll Crono will end up winning it. I don't think it's like that at all... and I mean, at all. I never understood the whole MK > MM thing, and still don't, but it's not like we had any information on any MM game ever, so I really don't know what you mean by explain it statistically. Hell we'd never even seen anything on any MK game ever. We've seen Crono take on Vincent 1v1 before, and saw that Vincent wasn't too far behind, and with Crono appearing on the downswing, and Vincent either stable, or on the rise, his stature as a fan favorite, and what I believe to be a greater overlap between Crono/Link than Link/Vincent, and I just don't see how the two are comparable. --- Explicit Content. I wish Lei Fang were my mom. I'd like drug her and feel her up and stuff. - Ken |
| Mac Arrowny | Posted 8/18/2007 12:11:25 PM | message detail |
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It doesn't really matter, since both would beat Pikachu. >_< Discussion point: The Wii has been released since the last contest (and the PS3...). How much of an impact do you guys think it will have had on the contest voting population since last Fall? I mean we did see what the DS did (or whatever you want to attribute SC2k5's "boost" to...). The most popular game on the DS was a game starring Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, and Bowser. All the Wii has so far is TP and MP3. We'll see a boost for the characters from those games (how big is Ridley's role in MP3 anyway?), but it won't be nearly as widespread as the original Nintendo boost, IMO. --- Rapid analysis, accurate judgment, and superb powers of concentration. That is all we need. |
| therealmnm | Posted 8/18/2007 12:36:23 PM | message detail |
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I seriously doubt Super Mario 64 DS was
the driving point behind any Nintendo boost in 2k5. It's not like it
was Mario characters that just looked stronger. There was an entire
demographic shift, or so it seemed. And I'm pretty sure that the Wii's
release would have had a lot more impact than the DS did on this site. We all have seen the difference between handhelds and consoles on here. --- Currently playing: Guitar Hero 2, Gears of War, Saint's Row, SotN (XBLA), Burnout Revenge |
| Mac Arrowny | Posted 8/18/2007 12:45:34 PM | message detail |
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I seriously doubt Super Mario 64 DS was the driving point behind
any Nintendo boost in 2k5. It's not like it was Mario characters that
just looked stronger. Non-Mario Nintendo characters that looked stronger: Kirby, DK, Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf. The last three have explanations of their own, and Kirby had two of his biggest games in between the contests (Amazing Mirror and Canvas Curse). DK...we have no idea how much he boosted, but he's almost a Mario character anyway. Sure, there was a broad shift towards Nintendo, but individual games also played a big part in that. There was an entire demographic shift, or so it seemed. And I'm pretty sure that the Wii's release would have had a lot more impact than the DS did on this site. We all have seen the difference between handhelds and consoles on here. Thing is, the more the site shifts towards Nintendo, the more difficult new shifts become, especially when the Wii has so few games with Nintendo characters (outside of the VC). Now, the VC could certainly have a nice impact, but until we see SSBB and SMG, the huge overall Nintendo shift will have to wait. Once 2k8 arrives, we'll be seeing true Nintendomination. --- Rapid analysis, accurate judgment, and superb powers of concentration. That is all we need. |
| Yesmar | Posted 8/18/2007 12:51:55 PM | message detail |
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I think that the release of the Wii and the PS3 might actually work
towards shifting the voters a little. Now that a new generation has
fully dawned, maybe the vote base or just people's perceptions might
shift enough to allow characters from earlier generations to shift a
little. We have may have actually already seen this beginning last year
with Mega Man and Crono's drops. They are becoming more and more
irrelevant to the current gen and if things continue on the way they
are they are probably gonna fall out of the Noble Nine by the end of
this generation. --- Twisted Misters: 2007 World Series of Pop Culture Champions!!! |
| therealmnm | Posted 8/18/2007 1:08:11 PM | message detail |
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Non-Mario Nintendo characters that looked stronger: Kirby, DK, Link,
Zelda, and Ganondorf. The last three have explanations of their own,
and Kirby had two of his biggest games in between the contests (Amazing
Mirror and Canvas Curse). DK...we have no idea how much he boosted, but
he's almost a Mario character anyway. Sure, there was a broad shift
towards Nintendo, but individual games also played a big part in that. That's the thing. I really doubt those Kirby games played a big factor in him looking stronger. I mean, look how the Kirby series fared in that contest. And what reason did Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf have to increase in 2k5? The Minish Cap? At any rate, I just don't think that individual games (at least not THOSE games) are what caused the character boosts back then. And as I've always said with Nintendo characters, I don't think they need to be in a game to gain from it, as long as a game brings more of that Nintendo fanbase to the site. I remember I brought that up when I said that Link would be stronger in 2k5, and I got ripped. Then Link went and beat Cloud by even more that year... At any rate, I think you got the general gist of what I was saying in that line you mentioned with DK. Thing is, the more the site shifts towards Nintendo, the more difficult new shifts become, especially when the Wii has so few games with Nintendo characters (outside of the VC). Now, the VC could certainly have a nice impact, but until we see SSBB and SMG, the huge overall Nintendo shift will have to wait. Once 2k8 arrives, we'll be seeing true Nintendomination. Oh, I didn't say there definitely would be a big boost due to the Wii. That's why I asked. Trying to figure out what people's thoughts are on how big a boost there will be, if any. I really haven't seen it mentioned much when people use pure stats from past years in their arguments. --- Currently playing: Guitar Hero 2, Gears of War, Saint's Row, SotN (XBLA), Burnout Revenge |
| voltch | Posted 8/18/2007 1:12:29 PM | message detail |
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it'd be a shame if we got a complete nintendo domination. square and konami are the best shots at stopping this but unless we get FFVII remake or something like that how long will link keep on winning? --- Rufus shinra destroyed my bracket in the sc2k6 contest. |
| hochiminh155 | Posted 8/18/2007 2:08:16 PM | message detail |
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If Link and Cloud were to have a 1 on 1 rematch, would Link break 55%? --- Fc: 4768 3939 5325 |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 8/18/2007 2:17:57 PM | message detail |
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I'd wager he would. --- Network Premiere of: "GA All The Way." Watch one black kid's desperate search for his Wii. |
| LinkLegend27 | Posted 8/18/2007 2:22:22 PM | message detail |
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I agree, he probably would. --- Sig goes here. |
| PortugalTheMann | Posted 8/18/2007 2:23:39 PM | message detail |
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I don't think he would, but I really don't care either. He didn't quite manage 54% on him last year, but anything could happen. --- Explicit Content. I wish Lei Fang were my mom. I'd like drug her and feel her up and stuff. - Ken |
| smitelf | Posted 8/18/2007 2:48:41 PM | message detail |
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On the topic of Nintendo characters, I'm starting to reconsider Fox
> Wario. Wario's had a lot more exposure these past few years than
he did around '03 (including several popular games like WarioWare), and
I'm having trouble determining why Fox would perform any better now
than he did before. I'm probably overthinking this... --- Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Political Compass: -0.38, -4.21 |
| smitelf | Posted 8/18/2007 2:49:23 PM | message detail |
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From hochiminh155 If Link and Cloud were to have a 1 on 1 rematch, would Link break 55%? Probably. He's been slowly gaining on Cloud for years. --- Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Political Compass: -0.38, -4.21 |
| MarioSuperstar | Posted 8/18/2007 3:12:33 PM | message detail |
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On the topic of Nintendo characters, I'm starting to reconsider Fox
> Wario. Wario's had a lot more exposure these past few years than
he did around '03 (including several popular games like WarioWare), and
I'm having trouble determining why Fox would perform any better now
than he did before. heh, I'm doing the opposite (well, almost), I'm reconsidering Wario > Captain Falcon. --- Network Premiere of: "GA All The Way." Watch one black kid's desperate search for his Wii. |
| ZFS | Posted 8/18/2007 3:12:48 PM | message detail |
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Also, Cloud has even more reason to boost since then than Auron does. Hell no he doesn't. --- Believe |
| consolefreak | Posted 8/18/2007 3:32:17 PM | message detail |
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Hell no he doesn't. KH2 > KH2, AC and DoC? --- 'At least your sword is to the point.' *One_Winged_Ange* |
| ZFS | Posted 8/18/2007 3:51:20 PM | message detail |
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DoC is a complete non-factor. Cloud is present in that game for all of
two seconds, and has no bearing at all on any of the story. The game
didn't sell a bunch, it wasn't well received, and Cloud's role was
meager to say the least. It wouldn't even help him along the lines of
"well, it's something new with FFVII." As far as KH2, Auron's role there completely wipes the floor with Cloud's, which is part one of why it's a bigger deal for Auron. The second part is that he was new, not simply given a rehashed role from the first. Auron's role there was good enough to completely steal the spotlight from his FF counterparts. I'm a bit suspect of how much that actually helped Cloud, given that he didn't much stronger at all against Link. I think it's pretty evident how much KH2 did for Auron, too. And yeah, there's Advent Children. Again a bit suspect of how much that really did for Cloud, but I'm not trying to dispute that Cloud might have boosted since 2003. What I am saying is that Auron has undoubtedly boosted much more from where they were strength-wise since 2003. Auron's had much more reason to gain fans and to help solidify himself among his existing fans. --- Believe |
| Mac Arrowny | Posted 8/18/2007 3:58:48 PM | message detail |
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As far as KH2, Auron's role there completely wipes the floor with
Cloud's, which is part one of why it's a bigger deal for Auron. The
second part is that he was new, not simply given a rehashed role from
the first. Auron's role there was good enough to completely steal the
spotlight from his FF counterparts. Eh, I don't know about that. Auron's role in KH2 wasn't all that great, really, especially compared with what he did in the original KH. Sure, he was a party member, but he was probably the worst one. --- Rapid analysis, accurate judgment, and superb powers of concentration. That is all we need. |
| ZFS | Posted 8/18/2007 4:01:32 PM | message detail |
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Auron wasn't in KH1. And what, exactly, do you mean "worst"? Like in terms of who is the most useful? That doesn't matter. Who really cares about stuff like that? Auron kicked ass -- by far the coolest one to join your crew. --- Believe |
| consolefreak | Posted 8/18/2007 4:02:29 PM | message detail |
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As far as KH2, Auron's role there completely wipes the floor with
Cloud's, which is part one of why it's a bigger deal for Auron. The
second part is that he was new, not simply given a rehashed role from
the first. Auron's role there was good enough to completely steal the
spotlight from his FF counterparts. I'm a bit suspect of how much that
actually helped Cloud, given that he didn't much stronger at all
against Link. I think it's pretty evident how much KH2 did for Auron,
too. And yeah, there's Advent Children. Again a bit suspect of how much that really did for Cloud, but I'm not trying to dispute that Cloud might have boosted since 2003. What I am saying is that Auron has undoubtedly boosted much more from where they were strength-wise since 2003. Auron's had much more reason to gain fans and to help solidify himself among his existing fans. It's hard to gauge Auron's boost due to the SFF matches he was involved in. Then again, I guess you could say 45% on Crono >>> 45% on Ganon. It's clear he boosted though, that's for sure. Regarding Cloud, I'm also suspect of how much AC helped him. It certainly didn't show against Link. But who knows how badly he would've lost without it? It's possible Auron boosted a little more, but it won't be a big difference. Bottom line is, if you hold Auron - Cloud today, I still take Cloud to break that 70%, and you can rest assured that Auron not only gets SFF'd in the traditional sense of the acronym (the Link>Ganon kind,), but also, and especially, SFF'd in the now more relevant sense of the acronym (the Snake > Sephiroth kind). --- 'At least your sword is to the point.' *One_Winged_Ange* |
| ZFS | Posted 8/18/2007 4:04:17 PM | message detail |
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I'd bet that Auron would easily break 30% on Cloud if we held that poll again today. Don't have any doubt he would. --- Believe |
| Mac Arrowny | Posted 8/18/2007 4:08:00 PM | message detail |
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Auron wasn't in KH1. Wow. I have no idea why I posted that, since I know he's not in KH1. Weird. And what, exactly, do you mean "worst"? Like in terms of who is the most useful? That doesn't matter. Who really cares about stuff like that? Auron kicked ass -- by far the coolest one to join your crew. Well, I'm bitter against him, since he was in my party the only time I died in a plot battle. And he wasn't nearly the coolest, either. That's Riku, with Tron as a distant second. I'll give you that he's cooler than...Aladdin...but he's worse than the rest. --- Rapid analysis, accurate judgment, and superb powers of concentration. That is all we need. |
| consolefreak | Posted 8/18/2007 4:09:06 PM | message detail |
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I'd bet that Auron would easily break 30% on Cloud if we held that poll again today. Don't have any doubt he would. He may be breaking 30%, but it certainly won't be easily, depending on what exactly you mean by that. Cloud would definitely double him. --- 'At least your sword is to the point.' *One_Winged_Ange* |
| Mac Arrowny | Posted 8/18/2007 4:10:33 PM | message detail |
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I'd bet that Auron would easily break 30% on Cloud if we held that poll again today. Don't have any doubt he would. What do you mean, "easily"? Auron only gets 33% on Cloud according to the stats, so you're really not allowing for much SFF there... --- Rapid analysis, accurate judgment, and superb powers of concentration. That is all we need. |
| ZFS | Posted 8/18/2007 4:18:06 PM | message detail |
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Double him? Probably. SFF would still be there; I'm not denying that.
But I just meant that Auron wouldn't be pulling something like 30.2% or
whatever; he'd get a few percentage points over 30% in a rematch with
him. And I'm not saying that Cloud wouldn't take some support from Auron in Cloud/Auron/Bowser (Ryu)/Marcus match, either, but I don't think it's to any crippling degree. It's not as though Bowser, or whoever, isn't going to lose votes to others as well. I think Auron has far more hardcore fans who are going to be voting him over everyone, Cloud included, than Bowser does. It's risky, but it's worth a shot. Not expecting people to agree with it. --- Believe |
| ZFS | Posted 8/18/2007 4:18:19 PM | message detail |
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Stats from where? --- Believe |
| Mac Arrowny | Posted 8/18/2007 4:27:07 PM | message detail |
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lol X-stats. Though those might underrate Cloud a little, I suppose. --- Rapid analysis, accurate judgment, and superb powers of concentration. That is all we need. |
| XIII_rocks | Posted 8/18/2007 5:30:23 PM | message detail |
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I think Auron has far more hardcore fans who are going to be voting him over everyone, Cloud included, than Bowser does. This actually makes a lot of sense to me. Bowser's semi-iconic, but how many people really love him? --- http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=34492787 Sign plz "NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU *****!" - Molly Weasley, Deathly Hallows |
| XIII_rocks | Posted 8/18/2007 5:31:20 PM | message detail |
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I've also come to the conclusion that it should be the analysis clique
this year, not the analysis crew, just to confuse everyone. --- http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=34492787 Sign plz "NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU *****!" - Molly Weasley, Deathly Hallows |
| Mac Arrowny | Posted 8/18/2007 6:06:31 PM | message detail |
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I like Bowser quite a bit, thanks to PM2. And I know that he has lots of other big fans around here, like...mnm. --- Rapid analysis, accurate judgment, and superb powers of concentration. That is all we need. |
| Kratos_42 | Posted 8/18/2007 6:18:39 PM | message detail |
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MmmBowser. --- He wields the blade of a fallen hero, but now he is the hero, and it is the others who fall. He is rising. |
| HaRRicH | Posted 8/18/2007 6:20:40 PM | message detail |
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I'm cool with Bowser, though I already plan to vote both Toad and -- if
it comes to it -- Cloud over him. I don't know if I'd vote him over
Shadow yet or not though..... --- PETITION: a "Contest Suggestions" board. Life-changing details below: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=35717580 |
| smitelf | Posted 8/18/2007 6:39:30 PM | message detail |
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From HaRRicH I'm cool with Bowser, though I already plan to vote both Toad and -- if it comes to it -- Cloud over him. I don't know if I'd vote him over Shadow yet or not though..... You'll never need to know, since I'm sure you have the good taste to vote for Auron over both! --- Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Political Compass: -0.38, -4.21 |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 8/18/2007 6:43:28 PM | message detail |
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Well, I already know that I won't be voting for Bowser in any match
he's in because he's practically guaranteed to be in at least two
matches with a top 10 favorite of mine. And strangely enough, despite Ryu just being on the fringe of my top 10 list, I'll still have never voted against him. The only time he's ever faced someone from my top 10 was Snake in 2003, but that was before I'd ever played a Metal Gear game, so I voted for him then. Even if he makes it to the Final Four, he'll still be getting my vote. Looking at it, actually, except for Knuckles and Ryu, all of my top 10 favorite characters are in the bottom half of the bracket. --- "I'm no hero...Never was. I'm just an old killer...hired to do some wet work." |
| LeonhartFour | Posted 8/18/2007 6:44:47 PM | message detail |
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You'll never need to know, since I'm sure you have the good taste to vote for Auron over both! Ryu > Auron > Bowser >> Shadow Auron is awesome though. He's probably in my top 15 these days. For the record, I DO like Bowser, but yeah, he's not particularly a favorite of mine. There are a lot of characters I would vote over him. --- "I'm no hero...Never was. I'm just an old killer...hired to do some wet work." |
