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Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 446

BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 8/7/2007 5:20:27 PM | message detail
Little late on this, but:

~1~

(1) Link
(8) Bidoof

(4) Marcus Fenix
(5) Phoenix Wright

(3) Kirby
(6) Sub-Zero

(2) Leon Kennedy
(7) Akuma


The only match of note here would be Kirby/Leon, just to see what Resident Evil's mettle really is. Even then I can't see Kirby losing.

~2~

(1) Mega Man
(8) Frog

(4) Bowser
(5) Ganondorf

(3) Vincent Valentine
(6) Ryu Hayabusa

(2) Zelda
(7) Gilgamesh


A division that looks good on paper, but I think would end up a bit of a disappointment. Unless Zelda stomps Vincent's face in, Mega will walk away with this division and the NN intact.

~3~

(1) Solid Snake
(8) Klonoa

(4) Fox McCloud
(5) Vivi

(3) Crono
(6) Nightmare

(2) Squall
(7) CATS


Would be interesting to see how Crono stacks up to Snake, to give us an idea of where Mega Man stands in relation to his NN chums.

Fox beats Vivi handily

Nintendo boost + FF9 being another year older makes this trap easily seen.

~4~

(1) Sephiroth
(8) Aeris

(4) Luigi
(5) Magus

(3) Ashe
(6) Seifer

(2) Samus
(7) Toad


Like the Seph/Aeris match, if only for hilarity. Luigi/Magus seems like it would have been a real bracketbuster if not for Zero/Luigi last year. Ashe/Seifer looks good, but I think would end up being another match like Boss/Celes, with 2 untested characters having a boring match then the winner getting blown out in the next round.

~5~

(1) Cloud
(8) Banjo

(4) Riku
(5) Donkey Kong

(3) Midna
(6) Alucard

(2) Balthier
(7) Tidus


Riku > DK, Balthier > Midna, and a division with new characters that we'll have absolutely no read on for 2k8.

~6~

(1) Master Chief
(8) KOS-MOS

(4) Mewtwo
(5) Raiden

(3) Shadow
(6) Zero

(2) Kratos
(7) Yuna


Switch Zero with Mewtwo or Chief and this division becomes one hell of a slobberknocker.

Actually, if you did that then switched Mewtwo out for Marcus Fenix it would be even better.

~7~

(1) Sonic
(8) Ike

(4) Kefka
(5) Gordon Freeman

(3) Auron
(6) Yoshi

(2) Sora
(7) Tommy Vercetti


Kefka/Gordon is funny, but makes me cry on the inside.

Sora/Yoshi/Auron seems like it would be a great fourpack, but I think Auron might have it. Last year Sora had the recency of KH2 to give him that performance against Mega Man, but I don't think it will be enough to survive the inevitable badassery SFF beatdown.

~8~

(1) Mario
(8) Wario

(4) Knuckles
(5) Ryu

(3) Tifa
(6) Pac-Man

(2) Dante
(7) Rikku


Ryu > Knux, Tifa > Danta and another division wasted by returning the champions

Other than that, Snake/Sephy looks like the only good match beyond that. And even then, I think it happens a year to early for it to be truly interesting.

This bracket is a great example of why bringing the elites back into the bracket is a bad bad idea. So many wasted matches because our strong midcarders are being slaughtered in the second round.

TuRtLe
~~~
"Like Darth Maul, the bastard child of Michael Flatley and Hellboy" -trancer1
BlAcK TuRtLe. The cream of Zero fanboyism
therealmnm | Posted 8/7/2007 5:20:48 PM | message detail
I thought Toad was like, the worst SMB2 character.

Hardly. He's either the favorite or second favorite. Mario is universally the worst character in the game.
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BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 8/7/2007 5:40:26 PM | message detail
And why is everyone so keen to see Mega Man run a gauntlet?

If the votals go up again this year, Crono will easily be the weakest of the Noble Nine, and doesn't have MM's penchant for SFFing non-Mario Nintendo characters.

TuRtLe
~~~
"Like Darth Maul, the bastard child of Michael Flatley and Hellboy" -trancer1
BlAcK TuRtLe. The cream of Zero fanboyism
MarioSuperstar | Posted 8/7/2007 5:41:31 PM | message detail
what did Toad do?
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trannyscience | Posted 8/7/2007 5:42:26 PM | message detail
Toad was quick, he could lift things super-fast. Luigi could jump like hell. Princess could float.

Mario could... uh...
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xexyz
UltimaterializerX | Posted 8/7/2007 5:49:53 PM | message detail
Peach > Toad > Luigi > Mario in Mario 2. Luigi is too whacky and only Peach lifts stuff slower than he does. Peach may lift slow, but she's so godly in the air that a master of using her will never get hit.

Anyway, finally started putting up my analyses on the site: http://www.freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/summer2002analysis.htm

First round of 2002 up. Tell me what you think.

~*ST*~
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BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 8/7/2007 5:50:36 PM | message detail
IMO, Toad and Mario were both useless

I was always a Luigi fan

TuRtLe
~~~
"Like Darth Maul, the bastard child of Michael Flatley and Hellboy" -trancer1
BlAcK TuRtLe. The cream of Zero fanboyism
HeroicTronBonne | Posted 8/7/2007 6:38:27 PM | message detail
^
Same here. Peach and Luigi were the only characters I used in SMB2.
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BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 8/7/2007 6:47:20 PM | message detail
Luigi's jump height was always better than Peach's distance IMO, although I can't imagine playing the game with neither of them.

TuRtLe
~~~
"Like Darth Maul, the bastard child of Michael Flatley and Hellboy" -trancer1
BlAcK TuRtLe. The cream of Zero fanboyism
Tediz247 | Posted 8/7/2007 7:02:21 PM | message detail
I only used Toad on desert levels. Most of the rest of the time, I used Peach or Luigi.
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ZFS | Posted 8/7/2007 7:04:50 PM | message detail
Aw. That revision totally screwed up Raiden.

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"We need to remember -- to spread the word -- to fight for change." - Snake
Lopen | Posted 8/7/2007 7:55:41 PM | message detail
Yeah, I was totally going to say that. Raiden is new blood, dammit! And no Gilgamesh/CATS? BRING ME BACK THE OLD ONE.
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Lopen is bye bye. Now is ninja time.
trannyscience | Posted 8/7/2007 7:57:05 PM | message detail
damn raiden fanboys
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xexyz
Lopen | Posted 8/7/2007 8:01:51 PM | message detail
And Toad is also a big favorite in Mario Kart as well as SMB2.

Seriously, you can call him "just another party character," but what are most Mario characters? Luigi's got like... Luigi's mansion, Player 2, and Mario is Missing. Yoshi's got mount status and Yoshi's Island/Story and of course, the infamous Yoshi's Cookie. Oh, and they both have the Smash games. These, I'll give you, are big. But the point is party style games are big for anyone, methinks.

It's all about who's liked. Toad outdid Peach significantly on the Mario favorites poll, and so I'd expect him to do better than her. Any Mario character can do decently because of their iconic status, but there comes a point where the votes must be snatched from the enemy.

To me, it all comes down to Smash as far as Toad vs Peach. That's the x-factor I just can't measure.

... right. Rambling.
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Lopen is bye bye. Now is ninja time.
XxSoulxX | Posted 8/7/2007 8:15:48 PM | message detail
speaking of analysis crews, i'll be glad to retire as undefeated in those things. mwaha!
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therealmnm | Posted 8/7/2007 8:54:47 PM | message detail
Luigi's jump height was always better than Peach's distance IMO, although I can't imagine playing the game with neither of them.

Luigi actually has a better jump distance than Peach. 15 blocks length vs. 14 blocks length baby! Peach's strength is being able to hold the same height over said distance, being able to jump out one way, drop, and then catch a float in the other direction (useful for getting to lower platforms easily), and other nifty air tricks.
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Haste_2 | Posted 8/7/2007 9:24:55 PM | message detail
And why is everyone so keen to see Mega Man run a gauntlet?

Because Mega Man at least has a chance at being weaker than his x-stat value, unlike Crono. Crono would certainly have to lose ground in relation to non-NNers, but it's possible Mega Man would've been weaker than Vincent or someone a year ago.

Comments (which I doubt anyone'll read, haha) on tranny's revised bracket :

Div 1: Hayabusa/Toad is a good match, methinks. I wouldn't be surprised if Ryu Hayabusa has weakened some over the past while, even though I definitely think Toad is weaker than Peach. Leon being involved with Kirby and Sub-Zero is good, too... I'd take Leon losing to Kirby due to percentage against common opponent. Kirby/Link would be interesting to see how Kirby can hold up in an SFF match.... I'm betting he'd look quite a bit better than someone like Yoshi.

Div 2: Bowser/Ganondorf is a good match for both rivalry purposes and for slight doubts on their SFF capabilities. Ganondorf/Zelda potential set-up is nice, and Zelda does have a shot at beating Vincent, and certainly Mega Man is gonna be sweating.

Div 3: I would love to see Riku own Fox's face. Crono vs. Snake rematch? Good enough. Crono would've beaten Squall 56/44 two years back... how would it all go today?

Div 4: Love Sephiroth/Aeris, of course. Luigi/Magus is good, but I see Luigi being heavily favored and having little chance of losing... how about Luigi/Knuckles instead? Marcus/Akuma is a great new-blood match, for sure. Samus vs. Sephiroth...? We could always hope...

Div 5: I hope you don't think Raiden has a shot against DK. That 4-pack of doom here, though... whoa. I really have no idea who wins that pack, though I think Tidus would at least beat Midna.

Div 6: Wow, this is...like, an 8-pack of doom here, practically! Whoa. MC, Shadow, Zero, or Yuna, or even Kratos might come out of this alive. Mewtwo or Vivi could have a shot at ousting MC...

Div 7: Kefka/Gordon is great, as is Sora vs. Yoshi and Auron... unfortunately, Sonic is out of Auron's reach.

Div 8: Could Mario SFF Ryu if that match happened? The next four-pack seems a little wasted... I think it would be better if you had a Knuckles/Ryu/Dante/Rikku four-pack.

Elite 8 set-up:
Link
Mega Man
Solid Snake
Sephiroth
Cloud
??? (Cloud-fodder)
Sonic
Mario


Hm...Sonic/Mario is a keeper, but I really think a Crono/Mega Man set-up should be there. Heck, even Vincent could realistically topple Crono if he beats out Mega Man.

So, three suggestions: I think you should swap Magus and Knuckles around to create a Luigi/Knuckles and a Ryu/Magus match, and look at my suggestion for Division 8. Then, move Mega Man's division and Crono somewhere else to set-up Crono vs. Mega Man II. It's a great bracket here.

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ZFS | Posted 8/7/2007 9:26:46 PM | message detail
Div 5: I hope you don't think Raiden has a shot against DK.

He's got more than a chance, yo.

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"We need to remember -- to spread the word -- to fight for change." - Snake
trannyscience | Posted 8/7/2007 9:34:12 PM | message detail
yeah, I really liked Luigi/Magus when I set it up, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized how one-sided it'd be. people have an aversion to picking Magus right now. I was thinking about an hour ago that I should have thrown him into the cluster**** that is division 6.

Luigi's a tough one.. he seems to be the bottom of that next tier. I can't find a good match that I like with him because either he beats people like Magus or Kirby, or loses to the Yoshis or Soras of the world. Luigi/Leon, maybe? Kirby/Magus? hmm.
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xexyz
therealmnm | Posted 8/7/2007 9:38:27 PM | message detail
Div 1: Hayabusa/Toad is a good match, methinks. I wouldn't be surprised if Ryu Hayabusa has weakened some over the past while, even though I definitely think Toad is weaker than Peach

Well Hayabusa does have Ninja Gaiden Sigma out now. He certainly shouldn't have weakened much. Even if the PS3 user base is small, the game was heavily marketed, putting Ryu at the forefront of the PS3 gaming scene. You had to have noticed him regardless of if you are a PS3 fan or not. Publicity never hurts. Not saying it will be significant, but I doubt Ryu is weaker now than he showed against Dante.
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MarioSuperstar | Posted 8/7/2007 9:39:34 PM | message detail
I dunno about you guys but I honestly think Akuma isn't too much stronger than M. Bison.
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trannyscience | Posted 8/7/2007 9:40:29 PM | message detail
I think a bunch of people in this topic would take Bison over Fenix. (and Diablo!!!)
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xexyz
MarioSuperstar | Posted 8/7/2007 9:42:04 PM | message detail
heck, I don't even know if Akuma is stronger than Bison and Chun-Li. they were at least in SFII.
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Haste_2 | Posted 8/7/2007 9:42:54 PM | message detail
Well, I would take Bison over Fenix, but I think Akuma is a little weaker than Bison, making it a tough match.

Ah... I didn't realize Ninja Gaiden Sigma was out now. How ignorant I am. In that case, Hayabusa should beat Toad easily.

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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
UltimaterializerX | Posted 8/7/2007 9:51:45 PM | message detail
I didn't even know who the main character of Gears of Wars' name was until your bracket.

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ZFS | Posted 8/7/2007 10:09:58 PM | message detail
I suppose I'll elaborate on that one a bit. I'm feeling up to some more substantial posts for once, and Raiden's one of the few guys in the contest I'm ready to get into some good arguments about. Some pre-bracket hype to chew on. Longest stats post in forever incoming!

DK is, what, right around Master Chief's strength? See, I think that's perfect. I'm sure Raiden's strength -- his peak and potential -- all differ tremendously from person-to-person. And part of the reason for that, along with perhaps the best thing about him this year, is that he isn't a number; you can't go delving into the stats or crunching numbers to come up with a range for Raiden. He's incalculable; much like Lopen said, he might as well be new blood after that SFF match in '03.

Raiden, in my own non-number caluculations, should end up doing damn good: pushing 40% on Auron, hanging with Sub-Zero, Master Chief, and the like. It's a good start for him. I don't view it as much of a stretch either; I think he could maybe nudge his way up ever so slightly to show Zero what's up, too. The idea probably doesn't sit well with some folks, primarily because there is this lingering idea -- misconception, if you ask me -- that people still don't like Raiden.

It's more than a safe bet to say that most of the hatred that Raiden was once connected with has declined over the years. He's still got his detractors, but they've seemingly become a not-so-vocal miniority. But there's nothing that relies solely on hype, either -- everything Raiden has in his corner is concrete. He's been the center of attention for about a year now in all things Metal Gear, he's undergone some mass-appealing cosmetic changes, it's evident enough he's gone through some "acceptance" with people (you can see that well enough with folks on Board 8).

I'll concede it's complete guesswork, though. Raiden hanging in there with Auron, Ganon, and Vincent? Crazy talk. Raiden managing to beat DK? I think that's doable. Is Raiden more liked -- more popular -- than Donkey Kong? I think so, certainly. There may be a shadow of doubt casted on Raiden because of Ocelot's craptacular jobbing to Pac-Man, but Raiden has something over his non-Snake Metal Gear associates: he's the main playable, controllable, characters in a Metal Gear. That invokes a certain level of attachment to the player over that of an NPC, I think.

Is it really viewed as a stretch for someone like Raiden to beat Donkey Kong? I mean, really? Hey, maybe I am crazy, but I think I'm being good this time!

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"We need to remember -- to spread the word -- to fight for change." - Snake
transience | Posted 8/7/2007 10:17:25 PM | message detail
I will concede that he has the chance to beat Donkey Kong. that's why I put him there. I know some of his supporters think he'll be pretty good, and while the detractors will say you're nuts, it stimulates some debate.

so... who's stronger? Liquid Snake or Raiden? is it Raiden for sure, or is that debatable?
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8-bit plastic love machine
therealmnm | Posted 8/7/2007 10:23:40 PM | message detail
And I think that Raiden is a mid-carder at best. Especially with MGS4 not being actually out now. Some of this talk is getting crazy.
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ZFS | Posted 8/7/2007 10:30:51 PM | message detail
I think Raiden's a clean step ahead of all non-Snake MGS characters. I would probably put Liquid in between Raiden and Ocelot -- there's a nice gap between the two, I believe. I'd like to say it's as simple as "Raiden wastes Frog," but I think Liquid might change the outcome of that match if we saw it take place again today. Something tells me he's fared a wee bit better than ol' Froggy.

Perhaps I'm overrating the playability factor that Raiden has in his corner, but I think that'd be one of those factors that would be at play there. Raiden's not as pivotal to the MGS mythos as Ocelot or Liquid, but he should be stronger than them irrespective of that. Head-to-head, and indirectly, I see Raiden making quick work of his fellow MGS characters.

People might think differently, though, and I know some of the people who aren't sold on Raiden would believe such.

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"We need to remember -- to spread the word -- to fight for change." - Snake
UltimaterializerX | Posted 8/7/2007 10:34:56 PM | message detail
http://www.freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/summer2002analysis.htm

Done

~*ST*~
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Now Playing: Final Fantasy 12, Etrian Odyssey, Guitar Hero
transience | Posted 8/7/2007 10:36:53 PM | message detail
excellent.

too bad it's freaking impossible for me to read while video game midis are playing.
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xyzzy
8-bit plastic love machine
ZFS | Posted 8/7/2007 10:40:24 PM | message detail
MGS4 would be necessary if there was talk about Raiden being up there with the "near-elites," but I think simply based off of MGS2 and a couple of MGS4 trailers he's capable of hanging in the general area of Master Chief and Donkey Kong. People do love them some MGS2, after all (43% against SSBM is commendable).

Thinking on it, I do wish we had some sort of MGS character poll done here. Wonder why CJayC never got around to that...

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"We need to remember -- to spread the word -- to fight for change." - Snake
Gaddswell | Posted 8/7/2007 10:42:00 PM | message detail
Nice.

It's interesting to learn how things were like back then.
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sig
HaRRicH | Posted 8/7/2007 11:48:29 PM | message detail
Because Mega Man at least has a chance at being weaker than his x-stat value, unlike Crono. Crono would certainly have to lose ground in relation to non-NNers, but it's possible Mega Man would've been weaker than Vincent or someone a year ago.

I think it was debating with you that I learned this for myself, but I believe if you assumed Crono was constant from 2k5 as well as the Crono > Mega Man match, then that makes a virtual tie between Mega Man and Vincent. That's the weakest I could see Mega Man being last year, which would be a 50/50 match...and this year would only favor Vincent against Mega Man. Still though, I don't believe Mega Man dropped like that last year. Not to say he can't lose this year or that Mega Man couldn't have been much more threatened last year...but I don't think Mega Man was going to be upset by anybody outside of the Noble Nine last year. This year will be a real test for him though if the bracket's right.

Oh, and I think Crono will lose the most ground compared to other Noble Niners as well. Hard to say, but since Mega Man still has games coming out (even if they are largely ignored) and Mega Man has an icon status about him, he can make a Crono/Mega Man rematch closer if not reversed (probably just closer though).
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HeroicTronBonne | Posted 8/7/2007 11:51:42 PM | message detail
For some reason, I just don't see Raiden being able to hang with Subby and the Chief, HM. That'd be badass if he did, but even with the great hype MGS4 is receiving, it's gonna be tough to take on the stronger of the two main Mortal Kombat characters and a Halo 3 pumped up Chief. Raiden's got potential, but I just don't know if hype can help that much.
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MarioSuperstar | Posted 8/7/2007 11:56:31 PM | message detail
meh, I don't think Raiden's that high simply because of how bad he was SFF'd despite simply being another protagonist. if Solid Snake is really that considerably liked over Raiden, I don't think he has enough hardcore fans to really be up there.

ps: I've never played MGS2.
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ZFS | Posted 8/8/2007 12:03:43 AM | message detail
Raiden's strength isn't based upon any sort of hype he has from MGS4. Everything Raiden has helping him going into this year is concrete. You can see it, it's there now; it doesn't require that people have a certain level of excitement about something in the future. MGS4 will do big things for him, for sure, but being the main character of Metal Gear Solid 2 is big enough, I think.

People undoubtedly already have pegged a certain ceiling for Raiden, pre-MGS4; mine might just be a bit higher than most. It's not something I'd say is farfetched, though.

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"We need to remember -- to spread the word -- to fight for change." - Snake
transience | Posted 8/8/2007 12:04:45 AM | message detail
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1329
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1770

it's really not THAT much of a difference. plus, if you want to go the Ganon/Link route..
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xyzzy
8-bit plastic love machine
MarioSuperstar | Posted 8/8/2007 12:11:07 AM | message detail
well Ganon/Link is a villain/hero relationship but Cloud/Squall works fine. I forgot that Squall suffered that much despite being that big.

though I guess the only difference is that FF8 is > MGS2. though still, it's just that I hear about Raiden's role in MGS2 and how acts.. and how MGS2 is the least popular of the three games.

though I do think he may be a solid mid-carder if you look at Ocelot and Liquid.
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ZFS | Posted 8/8/2007 12:12:31 AM | message detail
Yeah. I wouldn't use the amount of SFF incurred as a sign that a character will lack strength -- Ganon is the biggest example of that. I'd wager that Raiden would do a few percentage points better if you held that poll again today, too. Nothing massive (he isn't going to jump to 30% or anything), but you know...

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"We need to remember -- to spread the word -- to fight for change." - Snake
Lopen | Posted 8/8/2007 2:13:59 AM | message detail
Well, I think Raiden would do massively better against Snake today. Hate's gone down big time, and the MGS4 hype is all in Raiden's favor. Who comes to watch the Snake part of those trailers? Give me Raiden to just barely avoid the tripling against Snake in a rematch. Yeap.

And of course, I also think DK is within Raiden's reach. Just barely, but it's a possible squeak out victory. I am banking on a bit of a hype boost to do this.

Here's an interesting question regarding Raiden: Does he perform differently if he gets a MGS4 style pic as opposed to a MGS2 style pic? I'd like to say yes... but I'm really not sure if the MGS4 pic is the one that gives him the advantage. At this point the MGS2 pic is definitely more recognizable... although it's also more recognizable to the haters still out there that might've been converted by the trailers? Ayaii.

THERE WILL BE NO MELTING RAIDEN PIC.
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Lopen is bye bye. Now is ninja time.
jonthomson | Posted 8/8/2007 2:27:05 AM | message detail
I dunno about you guys but I honestly think Akuma isn't too much stronger than M. Bison.

I'd take Bison over Akuma very, very quickly.

I'd probably take Fenix over both of them.

Also, Luigi > everyone in SMB2, and Toad's awesomeness in Mario Kart is without question, he's my driver of choice in everything but DD (Waluigi/Daisy)
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transience | Posted 8/8/2007 2:29:30 AM | message detail
Here's an interesting question regarding Raiden: Does he perform differently if he gets a MGS4 style pic as opposed to a MGS2 style pic? I'd like to say yes... but I'm really not sure if the MGS4 pic is the one that gives him the advantage. At this point the MGS2 pic is definitely more recognizable... although it's also more recognizable to the haters still out there that might've been converted by the trailers? Ayaii.

Zero Suit Samus. :)
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xyzzy
8-bit plastic love machine
consolefreak | Posted 8/8/2007 2:44:50 AM | message detail
As for Raiden : I'll say his MGS4 pic would make him perform noticeably better. It's the new, 'cool' Raiden, and he's still recognizable as well. Snake was a beast with old Snake pic as well.
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XIII_rocks | Posted 8/8/2007 3:27:51 AM | message detail
Dammit, 'freak, I was just going to mention Old Snake. Think MGS2 Raiden would perform slightly better, though.
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JustForFun1988 | Posted 8/8/2007 9:22:34 AM | message detail
LOL, i still remember the days where people thought Squall will be the one to break N9 due to that old Snake picture.
therealmnm | Posted 8/8/2007 9:59:23 AM | message detail
I forgot that Squall went up against Old Snake. Heh, Leonhart tried to hold Yoshi down by saying that he's overrated due to going up against Purple Snake and doing better than Squall even though the background pictures were just as vibrant as the sprites. Yet he said nothing about Squall going up against Old Snake. :)
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Currently playing: Guitar Hero 2, Gears of War, Saint's Row, SotN (XBLA), Burnout Revenge
HaRRicH | Posted 8/8/2007 1:00:26 PM | message detail
For what it's worth, Solid Snake at his different ages doesn't look nearly as different as Samus in and out of her Power Suit. That said...yeah, after ZSS/Tifa, I doubt Squall is legit last year. Not that the anomaly was anywhere near the size of Samus/Tifa, but...it probably happened to some extent.
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PETITION: a "Contest Suggestions" board. Life-changing details below:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=35717580
MarioSuperstar | Posted 8/8/2007 1:17:43 PM | message detail
so Snake underperforms as old or overperforms?
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Network Premiere of: "GA All The Way." Watch one black kid's desperate search for his Wii.
trannyscience | Posted 8/8/2007 1:19:07 PM | message detail
old Snake is fine. it's just like TP Zelda was fine (and then some) when she went against Vivi.
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xexyz
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