GameFAQs Contests
Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 371
| creativename | Posted 9/28/2006 1:09:28 PM | message detail |
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Maybe after a CT remake...no, not even then. Let's not get carried away. A Chrono Trigger remake for a modern console would almost certainly be hugely impactful on these contests if it was any good at all. Magus would likely own Ganon after such a not-gonna-happen remake. As it is I'm not sure if Ganon would break 55% right now on Magus, and I'm almost positive he couldn't break 60%. As huge of an upset as Magus/Knuckles was it's like people underrate Magus now. --- www.gamefaqscontests.com www.gamefaqscontests.com/gallery |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 9/28/2006 1:12:13 PM | message detail |
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If Magus had lost to Squall and ended up with that value, it'd have been one thing. But he lost to Knuckles, and him equaling 2004 Snake is something I'm not willing to accept. also um Snake is winning the day vote I'm happy now thx ssbb --- Commit it to memory. |
| Kaxon | Posted 9/28/2006 1:12:20 PM | message detail |
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Out of curiosity, would anyone here even think about taking Magus over Ganon now? No, but I would think about Magus over Auron... and without KH2, I would probably take it. --- CATS's Road to the Character Battle V Championship Round 1: Sonic |
| Heroic Mario | Posted 9/28/2006 1:13:58 PM | message detail |
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I still think Magus would take down Ganondorf. That, in all seriousness, is nonsense. You're basically telling me that Ganon has not moved since 2003 -- the year of Square. He remained the exact same strength from 2003 - 2006, despite the clear voter shift toward Nintendo and the announcement/trailer of Twilight Princess. The fact that Magus has had nothing in his corner to boost whereas Ganon has had everything you could want. Anyone considering Magus over Ganon is just...crazy. Juding by previous years, Auron is just 3% stronger than Alucard and Ganondorf is just 2% stronger than pre KH2 Sora. If you want to take Sora over Auron and post-KH2 Sora over both you go right ahead. Now you're catching on! Honestly, Knuckles is the only character I'd have any question about, and that's no reason to discount an entire division on that. Dante's five percent boost is just screaming problematic, too. He should not boost 5% when his game did not sell that well. We have seen that Devil May Cry is not exactly a powerhouse series here and it's supposed to bring him up 5%? I can see something like 3%, sure, which just needs the division adjusted down! Overrated indeed! 60% is a little beyond Ganondorf's max, in my opinion. Probably a little much now, but it's a certainty after Twilight Princess. --- "Master using it and you can have this." http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/160/masterjg3.jpg |
| Heroic Mario | Posted 9/28/2006 1:18:05 PM | message detail |
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Let's not get carried away. A Chrono Trigger remake for a modern
console would almost certainly be hugely impactful on these contests if
it was any good at all. Magus would likely own Ganon after such a
not-gonna-happen remake. Well, while we have not seen a remake of the game, we have seen it put on more modern consoles -- PlayStation. Considering Ganon has Twilight Princess in his corner for next year, along with any other future Zelda title to compete with this indeed never-to-happen remake, I don't think Magus is ever going to be in a position to beat Ganon again. No, but I would think about Magus over Auron... and without KH2, I would probably take it. I'd take Auron without much of a problem, myself. Magus can still beat tons of characters, but Auron is in that group of characters ahead of him that I just don't think he's capable of beating anymore. --- "Master using it and you can have this." http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/160/masterjg3.jpg |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 9/28/2006 1:18:23 PM | message detail |
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Dante isn't problematic to me, it's obvious he's in a different league
than his games...and sales have never meant too much in a GameFAQs
contest. Dante getting a big boost from his first game since DMC should
be expected! --- Commit it to memory. |
| PartOfYourWorld | Posted 9/28/2006 1:18:24 PM | message detail |
| How do you guys think The Little Mermaid DVD (2-Disc Platinum Edition coming October 3) will affect upcoming matches? |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 9/28/2006 1:19:33 PM | message detail |
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DMC3 was a return to glory for Dante, and I don't buy the lackluster
sales as an excuse not to boost. We saw how much of the site had played
Twin Snakes despite horrible sales. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. October 22 - Internal war rages between the Squallid and the Snake |
| Heroic Mario | Posted 9/28/2006 1:20:35 PM | message detail |
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He most certainly boosted, but there's no
way in hell I buy a five percent boost as a result. It doesn't help
that he's around a bunch of characters he has no business being around
either. --- "Master using it and you can have this." http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/160/masterjg3.jpg |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 9/28/2006 1:23:24 PM | message detail |
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Who doesn't he have business being around? Luigi? --- Commit it to memory. |
| Heroic Mario | Posted 9/28/2006 1:25:06 PM | message detail |
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Let's see here -- Tifa Lockhart, Ganon (some silly and illogical people like to think he's rated correctly and the Devil Division is not overrated!), Zero, and...oh, yeah, clearly above Auron! Yes, indeed, Dante is definitely not overrated. No way. --- "Master using it and you can have this." http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/160/masterjg3.jpg |
| __Smurf__ | Posted 9/28/2006 1:26:48 PM | message detail |
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Ganon has gained somewhat from 2003, and Magus according to Crono has stayed the same. It would still be close, but I think 53% to Ganon would be the likely outcome. What's intresting about Magus, is that he is porbably the Noble Line from 2003. And look at all the character who have passed him out since then. Ganon, Vincent, Squall, Knuckles. If that happened in 2003, it would be more like the noble 15. >_< --- Smurf. The Cream of Knuckles Fanboyism. |
| Ketchop | Posted 9/28/2006 1:27:17 PM | message detail |
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On the issue of sales figures, how exactly are they determined? Does
each store give out how many units were sold for each game of something
or are they estimated? Just curious. --- TOOMMMAAATOOOO SAAAAUUUUCCCCEEEE! (he seems pumped....perhaps?) |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 9/28/2006 1:27:22 PM | message detail |
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Ganondorf and Auron are moot seeing as how you think they're
underrated. Zero is likely underrated as well. And Tifa? Honestly,
after the chunk Dante took out of Vincent I'd be tempted to take
him...not after KH2, of course, but I maintain pre-KH2 Tifa is weaker
than Aeris. --- Commit it to memory. |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 9/28/2006 1:27:59 PM | message detail |
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I don't see any problem with Dante being around Auron or Tifa (since
Vincent should be above them both cleanly). Zero has reason to be
underrated, but then again, he may have dropped. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. October 22 - Internal war rages between the Squallid and the Snake |
| Heroic Mario | Posted 9/28/2006 1:29:37 PM | message detail |
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On the issue of sales figures, how exactly are they determined? Does
each store give out how many units were sold for each game of something
or are they estimated? Just curious. NPD tracks the sales of each game through retail reports or something. I'm not sure of the fine details, but there's a financial group that tracks all the data for analysts or something similar. They release it the data to certain people each month. DMC3's sales around that time were, like, 400,000. It had sold less than DMC2. --- "Master using it and you can have this." http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/160/masterjg3.jpg |
| trannyscience | Posted 9/28/2006 1:30:19 PM | message detail |
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don't you argue that MGS3 is stronger than MGS2, Mario? --- xyzzy |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 9/28/2006 1:32:18 PM | message detail |
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Has MGS3 even sold close to the number of units MGS2 did? I wouldn't
bet on it, but I would certainly take it in a direct match. And, more
importantly, despite the slower sales it had it still gave Snake a very
Solid boost. I'd expect DMC3 to do more for Dante, since he benefits from such factors as being in the game. <_< --- Commit it to memory. |
| Zylo the wolf | Posted 9/28/2006 1:32:59 PM | message detail |
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If you want to take Sora over Auron and post-KH2 Sora over both you go right ahead. I'm not sure if I really would, but that doesn't matter since those matches won't happen in the bracket ;) All I'm saying that I don't think Ganondorf VS Vincent will be even half as interesting as the other FFVII VS Zelda matches we will see in this contest. --- Supporter of Alucard. |
| Heroic Mario | Posted 9/28/2006 1:34:42 PM | message detail |
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Ganondorf and Auron are moot seeing as how you think they're
underrated. Zero is likely underrated as well. And Tifa? Honestly,
after the chunk Dante took out of Vincent I'd be tempted to take
him...not after KH2, of course, but I maintain pre-KH2 Tifa is weaker
than Aeris. My own adjustments don't put Auron that far ahead of where Dante is right now. I think my most hopeful yet realistic adjustment or whatever puts Auron just a smidge ahead of Dante, which I don't believe would ever be the case in a real match. And I wouldn't even think about taking Tifa over Dante pre-KH2 considering the gap between Tifa and Vincent would have been much smaller that year than what the stats are indicating. He would have still been ahead, but it wouldn't have be I don't see any problem with Dante being around Auron or Tifa (since Vincent should be above them both cleanly). Zero has reason to be underrated, but then again, he may have dropped. The whole idea of Mario/Zero SFF doesn't make much sense to me but whatever. Dante being that high and competing with that group of people does not sit well with me combined with that five percent boost. I don't see how people can be suspect of Knuckles and then be fine with Dante. Dante had a reason to boost, but it's certainly not that high. If you believe that, no one should have a problem believing that Gordon Freeman is right around Kefka. --- --- "Master using it and you can have this." http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/160/masterjg3.jpg |
| longbladeofhiko | Posted 9/28/2006 1:35:59 PM | message detail |
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I'd take Zero over Dante in a heartbeat! --- WWEGSB Hardcore Legend Masa I jobbed to Z1mZum in the Guru Contest. Did you? |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 9/28/2006 1:36:43 PM | message detail |
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The whole idea of Mario/Zero SFF doesn't make much sense to me but whatever. Then you believe Zero dropped, and you shouldn't have as much trouble believing Dante can hang with him. Knuckles can be overrated without Dante being so because his value isn't dependent upon Dante. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. October 22 - Internal war rages between the Squallid and the Snake |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 9/28/2006 1:36:57 PM | message detail |
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Thing is, Knux didn't have reason to boost while Dante did...not that Knuckles didn't boost, I'm just sayin'. If you believe that, no one should have a problem believing that Gordon Freeman is right around Kefka. But...I do believe this. --- Commit it to memory. |
| Ketchop | Posted 9/28/2006 1:37:27 PM | message detail |
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If that's the case, are game rentals factored into the sales somehow? I
know it may be insignificant, but there's a lot of games out there that
I wouldn't buy (but may rent) if I think I can beat it in a short
amount of time. DMC3 is an example for me. I don't think sales figures
are a good indication of a character's strength. --- TOOMMMAAATOOOO SAAAAUUUUCCCCEEEE! (he seems pumped....perhaps?) |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 9/28/2006 1:38:52 PM | message detail |
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The only big name character I seriously take rentals into account for
is Mega Man...and that's in hindsight, anyway. No use worrying about
something that iffy. --- Commit it to memory. |
| Heroic Mario | Posted 9/28/2006 1:39:58 PM | message detail |
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don't you argue that MGS3 is stronger than MGS2, Mario? I don't argue that it provided Snake with a substantial 5% boost, but I do agree it would be stronger. I do think that DMC3 is stronger than DMC2 -- especially now that it has outsold DMC2 -- but it providing that big of a boost I wouldn't believe for a second. Has MGS3 even sold close to the number of units MGS2 did? I wouldn't bet on it, but I would certainly take it in a direct match. MGS3 has sold about 1.3 million and MGS2 sold about 2.2 million, just for America. In comparison, DMC3 had sold about 400,000 at the time, DMC2 had sold 600,000, and DMC had sold 1.26 million. And I'm not arguing that Dante boosted from that game. He most certainly did, but I do not believe it was worth 5%. If people think the Devil Division is overrated, which many seem to think, then Dante is overrated and his boost is smaller as a result. Hey, I think that makes sense! --- "Master using it and you can have this." http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/160/masterjg3.jpg |
| WarThaNemesis | Posted 9/28/2006 1:40:32 PM | message detail |
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Sora has by far the weakest fourpack of all the males. Compare his 4/5 opponent to, say, any another male. Vincent/Ganondorf is easily an Elite Eight worthy match, when instead they face first round only to be rewarded by jobbing to Sonic. I would take Squall over Sora without question, and I'd consider Tidus over Sora for the upset potential. Seeing as how Sora's only match against an FF character (as far as I know), was against an Aeris that made him look weaker than he did against Snake, the possibility of there being general FF > KH SFF could ring true. Instead Squall likely loses with somewhere around 53-55% to Snake second round. Bowser would put a good 55-60% on post-KHII Sora without much trouble, but instead gets a bout with Crono second round, which will likely end in around 54% for Crono. As for Sora, he gets either Gordon Freeman or Phoenix Wright, neither of whom could beat any other 4 or 5 seed. Had Magus or Knux made it in as an 8 seed, putting one of them against Sora first round would be THE bracket breaker by a good margin. Then again, Ceej could just be hoping to get the KH fanboys with high hopes, only to watch Mega Man absolutely shatter them. Of course, Sora could always surprise everyone and *gasp* lose to Tingle! -_- --- War13104 had something weak beating something strong and he looks smarter than you or something - TessaTestarossa |
| Heroic Mario | Posted 9/28/2006 1:41:05 PM | message detail |
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Then you believe Zero dropped, and you shouldn't have as much
trouble believing Dante can hang with him. Knuckles can be overrated
without Dante being so because his value isn't dependent upon Dante. I actually wouldn't hesistate to put Zero over Dante right now in a match. He wouldn't be a blowout, but it would never bother me enough to actually pick Dante. Is he close? Certainly. He is above him? Not at all. --- "Master using it and you can have this." http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/160/masterjg3.jpg |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 9/28/2006 1:43:47 PM | message detail |
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I'm not saying he'd beat Zero either, but is he in the same league? I don't see any reason why not. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. October 22 - Internal war rages between the Squallid and the Snake |
| Heroic Mario | Posted 9/28/2006 1:43:53 PM | message detail |
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If that's the case, are game rentals factored into the sales
somehow? I know it may be insignificant, but there's a lot of games out
there that I wouldn't buy (but may rent) if I think I can beat it in a
short amount of time. DMC3 is an example for me. I don't think sales
figures are a good indication of a character's strength. Rentals are not taken into consideration with sales, no. Sales indicate the number of people who went out to a store and bought the game. I know a few rental places let you actually purchase new copies of the game or whatever, so unless it was done similar to that, then it wouldn't be take into account. And I'm just arguing that the sales of DMC3 combined with the amount Dante boosted combined with the Devil Division being possibly overrated makes me heavily suspect Dante's boost being that large. He undoubtedly boosted and undoubtedly is pretty strong, but not as much as the stats would have you believe. --- "Master using it and you can have this." http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/160/masterjg3.jpg |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 9/28/2006 1:44:34 PM | message detail |
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I suspect the Devil Division is overrated, but I allot for the
possibility that it isn't. Snake's boost wasn't 5% (it was 4% LOL) but
he's a good deal stronger than Dante and, again, I believe DMC3 helps
out Dante more than MGS3 helped out Snake. I mean, I expect Snake's MGS4 gain to be insane. <__< --- Commit it to memory. |
| __Smurf__ | Posted 9/28/2006 1:44:58 PM | message detail |
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Thing is, Knux didn't have reason to boost Sonic boosted like crazy too that year, so that's the reason. --- Smurf. The Cream of Knuckles Fanboyism. |
| Heroic Mario | Posted 9/28/2006 1:45:09 PM | message detail |
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I'm not saying he'd beat Zero either, but is he in the same league? I don't see any reason why not. Let me ask you a question... You believe that Ganon is rated accurately and the Devil Division is not overrated, correct? Do you think Dante has no trouble beating Auron? --- "Master using it and you can have this." http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/160/masterjg3.jpg |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 9/28/2006 1:45:51 PM | message detail |
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Sonic boosting is just evidence that supports the fact that Knuckles boosted. It doesn't give a reason why it happened. --- Commit it to memory. |
| Haste_2 | Posted 9/28/2006 1:46:57 PM | message detail |
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MGS: Twin Snakes came out a few months before SC2K4...Snake's bad year. --- Sign the Petition for more stats in the GameFAQs Contests here: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=30693799 |
| Heroic Mario | Posted 9/28/2006 1:47:29 PM | message detail |
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I mean, I expect Snake's MGS4 gain to be insane. I bet that 20% PS3 ownership will help that out, too. >> --- "Master using it and you can have this." http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/160/masterjg3.jpg |
| __Smurf__ | Posted 9/28/2006 1:48:11 PM | message detail |
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Well yeah, but what I mean is that it proves it's legit and not a Vincent overperformance. Characters sometimes don't need a reason to boost. I mean in 2003, Sonic had 2 Gamecube releases, Mega Collection, Sonic X and hype for Heroes. And he had his worst year ever. --- Smurf. The Cream of Knuckles Fanboyism. |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 9/28/2006 1:48:54 PM | message detail |
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MGS: Twin Snakes came out a few months before SC2K4...Snake's bad year. This is evidence toward nothing. That year could have very well been worse for Snake without TTS. --- Commit it to memory. |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 9/28/2006 1:50:16 PM | message detail |
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Do you think Dante has no trouble beating Auron? Now? No, he doesn't win at all. But in 2005, he could have. Honestly, after seeing Ganon pound on Auron the way he did, I no longer hold to my former conviction that Auron is some sort of near elite, and that's the idea that a lot of people still hold, it seems, hence the problem believing Dante > Auron. Personally, I'd adjust Ganondorf based on Diablo, and in that case, Dante wins over Auron with 51.25%, close enough to where the stats wouldn't really matter. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. October 22 - Internal war rages between the Squallid and the Snake |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 9/28/2006 1:50:30 PM | message detail |
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Well yeah, but what I mean is that it proves it's legit and not a Vincent overperformance. No, Knuckles' boost is in another league than Sonic's. If it were modest (like Sonic's) I could understand, but he's projected to go 59-41 on his former self. --- Commit it to memory. |
| Mac Arrowny | Posted 9/28/2006 2:03:39 PM | message detail |
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I'm not going to ask how much Squall can get before you worry about
him beating Snake since any massive performance will be attributed to
SFF, but how much can Tidus get on Squall before we Vincent pickers get
worried about Ganondorf? Tidus vs. Squall is an odd match. Tidus is potentially overrated in 2k5, so is Squall, and Squall has KH2. With all that combined, I'd say Vincent's in trouble for the Vincent pickers if Tidus does any better than expected (42.14%). With that said, I really don't expect Tidus to do that well (I'm expecting Squall with ~62%), so at this point, there's nothing to induce extra worry about Vincent's strength. Ganondorf's strength, however...!! don't you argue that MGS3 is stronger than MGS2, Mario? I know this was to HM, but I really think MGS2 > MGS3. For one, it sold better, and people really did like it. There was a lot of backlash against MGS3's setting as well. There's a reason DMC3 went on to outsell DMC2 while MGS3 is still a million behind MGS2. If that's the case, are game rentals factored into the sales somehow? I know it may be insignificant, but there's a lot of games out there that I wouldn't buy (but may rent) if I think I can beat it in a short amount of time. Rentals are just completely irrelevant. Xbox/360 games absolutely DOMINATE the rental charts, along with kids games. Lower quality games also do better there, since like with movies, people prefer to buy the better games. --- Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent. |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 9/28/2006 2:04:48 PM | message detail |
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There's a reason DMC3 went on to outsell DMC2 while MGS3 is still a million behind MGS2. Yeah, it's called MGS2. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. October 22 - Internal war rages between the Squallid and the Snake |
| Mac Arrowny | Posted 9/28/2006 2:10:48 PM | message detail |
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Then again, Ceej could just be hoping to get the KH fanboys with
high hopes, only to watch Mega Man absolutely shatter them. Of course,
Sora could always surprise everyone and *gasp* lose to Tingle! -_- Sadly, I can actually imagine Tingle being the #2 character in his fourpack, and I definitely believe he'll be stronger than Phoenix. I suspect the Devil Division is overrated, but I allot for the possibility that it isn't. Snake's boost wasn't 5% (it was 4% LOL) but he's a good deal stronger than Dante and, again, I believe DMC3 helps out Dante more than MGS3 helped out Snake. Compare Snake's boost to his 2k3 level...MGS3's boost seems pretty minimal in that regard. I don't see Snake's 2k4 level as any more relevant than Sonic's 2k3 level. Even without MGS3, I'm sure Snake would've at least made some of the ground he lost in 2k4 back. Yeah, it's called MGS2. Say what? You're admitting MGS2 > MGS3? --- Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent. |
| KleenexTissue50 | Posted 9/28/2006 2:12:57 PM | message detail |
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But MGS2 IS > MGS3 <_< --- CB5 Points: 15/16, Current Oracle placement: 19/158 Now playing: Xenosaga 3 (kinda) |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 9/28/2006 2:15:35 PM | message detail |
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MGS2 had that massive hype machine behind it (being the sequel to MGS
didn't hurt, either) -- and, let's face it, it wasn't a disaster like
DMC2 was. MGS3 still being behind MGS2 is understandable, whereas I
would have been completely shocked if DMC3 didn't overtake DMC2. Taking MGS2 over MGS3 to me seems like taking MGS2 over MGS...it seems to belie a lack of understanding of the fanbase. Though it certainly has more of a shot than it did against MGS, which was borderline ridiculous. --- Commit it to memory. |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 9/28/2006 2:16:40 PM | message detail |
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And I prefer MGS2 to MGS3 by a damn good margin, so it's not bias
talking on that. I just can't imagine this site preferring 2... --- Commit it to memory. |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 9/28/2006 2:23:20 PM | message detail |
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Say what? You're admitting MGS2 > MGS3? In sales, yes. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. October 22 - Internal war rages between the Squallid and the Snake |
| Mac Arrowny | Posted 9/28/2006 2:27:35 PM | message detail |
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I was asking why MGS2 was > MGS3 in
sales. My argument was that because DMC3 > DMC2, DMC3 eventually
surpassed DMC2 in sales. MGS3 never did the same to MGS2, which implies
that MGS2 > MGS3. --- Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent. |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 9/28/2006 2:28:16 PM | message detail |
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...I don't know where you get that idea. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. October 22 - Internal war rages between the Squallid and the Snake |
| Mac Arrowny | Posted 9/28/2006 2:29:33 PM | message detail |
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So, what's your explanation for DMC3 going on to outsell DMC2, if not people liking it more? --- Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent. |