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Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 370

MoogleKupo141 | Posted 9/26/2006 7:03:15 PM | message detail
Master Hand can win a lot of matches just because he's in SSBM.

He'd have no problem with Alyx Vance...
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Dancing with myself! Oh-oh! Dancing with myself! Oh-oh!
And I'll sweat! Sweat! Sweat! Sweat! Sweat! Sweat! SWEAT! SWEAT!
TheKoolAidShoto | Posted 9/26/2006 7:04:42 PM | message detail
I beat half-life 2 and prefer PC games, and I STILL had no idea who Alyx Vance was without looking it up.

o_0? I bet you forgot you were trying to rescue Princess Peach in SMB as well.
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Edited TNT Kill Bill line: "Buck: My name's Buck, and I'm here to (completely different voice) screw!"
trannyscience | Posted 9/26/2006 7:04:50 PM | message detail
I'd take Master Hand over Lara... maybe.
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xyzzy
Big Bob | Posted 9/26/2006 7:04:53 PM | message detail
According to the series contest, Sonic would beat Snake and Mega Man but lose to Mr. Game & Watch.
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My bracket is so screwed.
Samurai7 | Posted 9/26/2006 7:05:41 PM | message detail
FPS characters are forgettable to most, which is why none of them are strong on this site. Master Chief is the only exception, but that's only because he's the face of an entire console.

Especially when its not even the main character.
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It's a sad fact that you had to derail this topic because you are afraid of the power of the PS3 -- cade
XxSoulxX | Posted 9/26/2006 7:06:12 PM | message detail
Alyx is as main as you can get without actually playing as her.
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"ertyu is actually a language. For example, 'dum' is ertyunese for 'godly'." - Topaz Kitsune
RIP Eddie Guerrero. 1967-2005. Deputy Chief!
MoogleKupo141 | Posted 9/26/2006 7:06:39 PM | message detail
Even in your crazy logic, how do you equate main character of the series with the last unlockable, relatively unpopular character of one game of another series?
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Dancing with myself! Oh-oh! Dancing with myself! Oh-oh!
And I'll sweat! Sweat! Sweat! Sweat! Sweat! Sweat! SWEAT! SWEAT!
TheKoolAidShoto | Posted 9/26/2006 7:07:15 PM | message detail
Wait...what?
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Edited TNT Kill Bill line: "Buck: My name's Buck, and I'm here to (completely different voice) screw!"
Samurai7 | Posted 9/26/2006 7:08:24 PM | message detail
Alyx is as main as you can get without actually playing as her.

The only important part is in bold
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It's a sad fact that you had to derail this topic because you are afraid of the power of the PS3 -- cade
TheKoolAidShoto | Posted 9/26/2006 7:08:24 PM | message detail
Bleh, screw it. I'm gonna go play Half-Life 2 again for the 37th time.
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Edited TNT Kill Bill line: "Buck: My name's Buck, and I'm here to (completely different voice) screw!"
TheKoolAidShoto | Posted 9/26/2006 7:08:48 PM | message detail
Same time post!
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Edited TNT Kill Bill line: "Buck: My name's Buck, and I'm here to (completely different voice) screw!"
Draco1214 | Posted 9/26/2006 7:10:25 PM | message detail
The G-Man vs. Alyx

Who would you take? <_<
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Character Battle V Score - 14/14 points
Current Prediction - Chun-Li vs. Kasumi
XxSoulxX | Posted 9/26/2006 7:10:31 PM | message detail
You don't play as Ganondorf, Sephiroth, Zelda...

Bringing up that point is useless.
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"ertyu is actually a language. For example, 'dum' is ertyunese for 'godly'." - Topaz Kitsune
RIP Eddie Guerrero. 1967-2005. Deputy Chief!
XxSoulxX | Posted 9/26/2006 7:12:29 PM | message detail
Alyx, easily. G-Man appears in the final scene only. No strength at all.
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"ertyu is actually a language. For example, 'dum' is ertyunese for 'godly'." - Topaz Kitsune
RIP Eddie Guerrero. 1967-2005. Deputy Chief!
Samurai7 | Posted 9/26/2006 7:12:46 PM | message detail
You don't play as Ganondorf, Sephiroth, Zelda...

Bringing up that point is useless.


You can play as two of them >.>

But my point was in reference to FPS characters. People don't play FPS' for plot usually. So they get a lot less attached to the story, and thus a lot less attached to the characters. Thusly, if you don't play as them, the person will usually be filled with indifference and easily forget said character.
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It's a sad fact that you had to derail this topic because you are afraid of the power of the PS3 -- cade
XxSoulxX | Posted 9/26/2006 7:18:49 PM | message detail
Difference is that HL2 is nowhere near your average FPS. It actually has a spectacular plot, and every character is important.
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"ertyu is actually a language. For example, 'dum' is ertyunese for 'godly'." - Topaz Kitsune
RIP Eddie Guerrero. 1967-2005. Deputy Chief!
Samurai7 | Posted 9/26/2006 7:19:46 PM | message detail
But, people don't play it for that reason.
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It's a sad fact that you had to derail this topic because you are afraid of the power of the PS3 -- cade
XxSoulxX | Posted 9/26/2006 7:20:50 PM | message detail
Not originally, but it's hard not to get captured in the story.
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"ertyu is actually a language. For example, 'dum' is ertyunese for 'godly'." - Topaz Kitsune
RIP Eddie Guerrero. 1967-2005. Deputy Chief!
Karma Hunter | Posted 9/26/2006 7:25:44 PM | message detail
Meh, Fisher through Magus 2k5 isn't all that weak, and he's had two games since then.

Just as much, if not more failure than MC 2k5. Vincent and the Devil Division as a whole may not be overrated, but Magus sure as hell is.
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Commit it to memory.
Samurai7 | Posted 9/26/2006 7:26:54 PM | message detail
The people who played HL2 casually about 2 years ago arn't going to remember Alyx.
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It's a sad fact that you had to derail this topic because you are afraid of the power of the PS3 -- cade
BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 9/26/2006 7:30:38 PM | message detail
From XxSoulxX Posted 9/26/2006 10:18:49 PM
Difference is that HL2 is nowhere near your average FPS. It actually has a spectacular plot, and every character is important.

Hello Sowl, GameFAQs called, they want to know what the hell a PC first person shooter is.

TuRtLe
~~~
I used my brain and statistics to make my bracket. Karma Hunter used MGS fanboyism. KH won. Commit it to memory.
XxSoulxX | Posted 9/26/2006 7:32:24 PM | message detail
Hello Sowl, Board 8 called, they want to know what the hell a PC first person shooter is.

Fixed.
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"ertyu is actually a language. For example, 'dum' is ertyunese for 'godly'." - Topaz Kitsune
RIP Eddie Guerrero. 1967-2005. Deputy Chief!
Dekar TKB | Posted 9/26/2006 7:35:24 PM | message detail
My second favorite game is a PC FPS, and I wouldn't have known who Alyx was if she wasn't in this board's NCAA tournament. <_<.

*Curses high system requirements.*
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Chief of Patrol in Sir Chris' police force DA!
Captain Falcon for Sc2k6! www.rpgdl.com
BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 9/26/2006 7:37:19 PM | message detail
No, it was right the first time.

TuRtLe
~~~
I used my brain and statistics to make my bracket. Karma Hunter used MGS fanboyism. KH won. Commit it to memory.
Master Moltar | Posted 9/26/2006 7:55:38 PM | message detail
Aeon Division: Round 1 - Match 16 – (2)Lara Croft vs. (7)Alyx Vance

Moltar’s Analysis

Lara
Game/Series Known From: Tomb Raider
Extrapolated Rank in 2002: 27th (21.80%)
Extrapolated Rank in 2003: 37th (22.85%)
Extrapolated Rank in 2004: 50th (13.91%)
Seed in 2002: 1
Seed in 2003: 7
Seed in 2004: 15
Lost in 2002 to Crono in Round 3
Lost in 2003 to Max in Round 1
Lost in 2004 to Samus in Round 1

Ahh, a true example of someone falling from the spotlight over the years.

Alyx
Game/Series Known From: Half-Life

Hopefully she ends up with a better reputation than her Half-Life comrade…but probably won’t.

And we end the female bracket (cheers and such) with Lara vs. Alyx. I know Lara Croft is crap now, but even name recognition alone should get her through this match. I mean, look at Gordon. Alyx can’t be any stronger than that. Sure, she has Half-Life 2, but still. She’s a non-playable character who just assists you. How many decent competitiors have we seen with that resume (Don’t answer that)?

Lara, on the other hand, has a new (and good! Or so I hear) game out, and as I said before, Lara Croft is a recognized name among casuals. She shouldn’t have too much trouble here with Alyx me thinks.

Moltar’s Bracket Says: Lara will win.

Moltar’s Prediction is: Lara: 71% - Alyx: 29%



Ulti’s Analysis

When LARA CROFT is primed to score a blowout, you know you ****ing suck. That's all that needs to be said.

Prediction: Lara with 66.65%



HM’s Analysis

Now this one blows my mind – why? Half-Life got another freakin’ character into this contest. Given how poorly Gordon Freeman performed with only one game under his belt, I’m not expecting much of anything from Alyx. She should be above the absolute trash fodder that Manny Calavera and Yuri are, but she ain’t going to be too much better either.

Lara Croft performed really poorly in 2004, which makes this match something of a concern (not much, but still), but when one takes into consideration Tomb Raider Legends this removes all worry. It was given plenty of positive remarks from critics and the game sold really well. Added to that, it released on practically every system out right now – from PlayStation 2 to Xbox 360 – and that Lara Croft usually always makes these contests and she should do fine. I’m glad we’re done with fodder v. fodder matches here though.

Aitch Emm’s Bracket: Lara Croft

Aitch Emm’s Prediction: Lara Croft – 60% ; Alyx Vance – 40%

Aitch Emm’s Vote: Lara Croft



Yoblazer’s Analysis

I'm extremely pressed for time, so I'll make this quick. Lara Croft has taken a huge fall from grace over the years, but she still has a healthy number of games and is recognizable by nearly every gaming fan on the Internet. Her opponent, Half-Life 2's Alyx Vance, simply doesn't have that resume. She may come from the more popular game, but she's hardly the star. The fact that most Half-Life fans simply don't care about her and all other voters don't even know who she is will prove to be her painful undoing.

My prediction: Lara Croft def. Alyx Vance (73-27)
Master Moltar | Posted 9/26/2006 7:55:54 PM | message detail
Lopen’s Analysis

Finally these women's matches are over. I was really getting bored for a while there. I know, it really cut into my quality. This match? It also bores me. Tomb Raider: Some Game came out recently, and I guess it might give Lara a boost or something. Uh… I don't know. It's not like she'll need it to defeat Alyx Vance. This girl is from a game in which the main character gets defeated by the likes of Tina Armstrong and Max Payne. Well, with Gordon Freeman likely getting a win this year, I guess he needed to try and pass the torch. Alyx Vance never wins? AVNW?

I guess it could work, you know… if Alyx Vance had a snowball's chance in hell at ever being seen again. You know what, I think I was too harsh to Marle a few matches ago. Sure, I hate her… and sure… she doesn't have TJF and much of the CT fanbase hate her… but at least she has some fans. I'm sure she'd crush Alyx Vance with 70%+. But no, on second thought, I won't say Marle shouldn't have been replaced by Dizzy… I'll just get greedy, that's more my style. Jam Kuradoberi should've been here instead of Alyx Vance!

Actually, I give Alyx a slight chance to upset… very slight. Just because I think Tomb Raider hate might be at an all time… but the recent Tomb Raider: Some Game, makes it pretty unlikely. If I did Karma Hunter's thing I'd be like… "upset chance: 2%" "Upset pick: Alyx Vance with 50.25%". But I don't do his thing, I know he wouldn't appreciate it… he'd want me to step off.

Lopen's prediction: Lara Croft with 59.89% (continuing Freeman's time-honored above 40% tradition!)



KH’s Analysis

lol x-stats history

Lara Croft

Summer 2002 Contest
Extrapolated Strength --- 27th Place [21.80%]
Summer 2003 Contest
Extrapolated Strength --- 37th Place [22.11% ]
Summer 2004 Contest
Extrapolated Strength --- 53rd Place [13.91% ]

Whoa, Lara Croft? Uh, didn't we ban you from contests after 2004? Um, well, hello again. Got a new game? Well, that's wonderful...um...

Lara Croft?

Alyx Vance

lol N/A

Wow, I am absolutely shocked that a side-character in Gordon Freeman's game got into the contest. This is a character I could seriously see Tanner beating head-to-head...

Notable Releases Since Last Appearance

Lara Croft: Tomb Raider: Legend (Multi)
Alyx Vance: Half-Life 2 (PC)

Upcoming Releases

Lara Croft: N/A
Alyx Vance: N/A

Well, the thing about this match is...no, no, forget it, I can't do this anymore. For the love of all that is good and holy, WHY DID WE HAVE TO HAVE A FEMALE BRACKET CEEJ? WHY??? At least the Villains Contest was in the Spring, where I could safely ignore it! But this is taking up half of the freaking character battle! It's not interesting, it's not funny, it's just boring!

Sure, I'm whining. Sure, I'm complaining, despite the fact that you hold these battles for us every year (which I *am* actually grateful for). But it doesn't mean that you don't have bad ideas. Games Contest by era? Bad idea. 2k4 bracket? Bad idea. Female half? BAD IDEA.

Who's up next? Solid Snake? Yeah, stay right there. And you? Soma Cruz? Get yo' bad self over here. I want you two to go at it, like, mercilessly. I want you two to put on a clinic, have an insanely great match the likes of Halo/Starcraft could not touch. I want to see over 500,000 total votes in your match, I want it to seem like Google's giving linkage here. And then all the rest of you guys? I want the exact same thing out of you. I want the biggest voting matches, the greatest upsets, I want the Best. Contest. EVER. to make up for what I've just had to sit through.
Master Moltar | Posted 9/26/2006 7:56:45 PM | message detail
And at the end of it all? Whoever comes out of it -- I don't care if it's Crono or CATS -- I want you to break 99% on the Female Champ, just so she and every single other female looks downright pathetic compared to you guys. I want this to be a referendum that states from every single GFAQs user that we will not tolerate Lara/Alyx ever again!!! You're not a damn 2 seed Lara, you're the thing that a real 2 seed breaks 80% on! darn you cjay darn you cjay darn you cjay

Karma Hunter's Vote: SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE

Karma Hunter's Krazy Prediction: Lara Croft with 73.27%.

Jeezus, this could go anywhere...well, Ryo broke 40% on Lara back in the day, but Alyx is likely a good deal weaker than Hazuki. But Lara may not get as many anti-votes now as well (think Mario/Master Chief)...though she certainly seems to be weaker as of 2k4. Hmm...well, let's meet 'em halfway. Not quite the doubling, but close enough.

Upset Potential: 5%

No way I'm giving Croft a free pass in any match after what we've seen out of her, but this is about as good as it gets.

Upset Prediction: Alyx Vance with 55.21%



Guest’s Analysis - XxSoulxX

The match that everyone has been waiting for. I hope everyone is prepared for the biggest upset of the contest. Bigger then Knux > Magus! Bigger then Hand > Thong-boy! Bigger then Mario > Cloud > Link!

Since 2002 and 2003 don't matter anymore (increase in votals and a new shift in voting preference), let's skip all the way to 2004. This year is significant because this was Lara's last year in the contest. She managed to grab a 15 seed, and ran straight into Samus in the first round. Before I get into that match, look at her seed in that contest compared to her other ones. In 2002, she was given a 1 seed because of her "iconic" status. She got her ass kicked. She let Chop Chop Master Onion (You can search for this guy all you want, you still won't know who he is) get over 30% on her! She followed up with allowing Ryo Hazuki to get over 40% on her, then by getting less then 30% against Crono. Ok, she finished not to bad, but she still stunk it up for two rounds. This tells me that she does not deserve any sort of high seed in these contests.

2003 came along, and the site was focused on Square and everything related to that company. Lara only received enough nominations to get a 7 seed. In 2004, she got a 15 seed. She was snubbed in 2005. See a pattern here? Her "fan base" basically fell off the face of this earth. So, how exactly did she get a 2 seed in this contest? Blame it on the crappy nomination system. I bet that many people were scratching their heads, trying to come up with the 7 female characters. Any would do. Hell, I nominated a freaking porn star that appears in one picture on one of the most obscure games ever! Of course, most people would nominate who they remember. Therefore, Lara would get a lot of nominations that way.

Yes, she's higher then Alyx Vance, but like someone on Board 8 said: "Who the **** is Alyx Vance and how did she end up in this contest?!". She got in on strength alone, baby! I'll tell you that people didn't have to think long before nominating her. The point I'm trying to make is that the seeding means nothing. Lara is as weak as Crash Bandicoot. She deserves a very low seed to match her strength.

One needs to look no further then her 2004 match against Samus to prove how weak Lara really is. 17.61%. Lara Croft only got 17.61% against Samus. She couldn't even break 20%! And you can't deny that's her real strength, because Samus lost to Cloud, who lost to Link. There was nothing fishy in those stats.
Master Moltar | Posted 9/26/2006 7:57:23 PM | message detail
We all know Lara is weak as ****. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't been here very long. Many people predict that even though Lara is weak as hell, it would be enough to beat Alyx Vance. They believe that Alyx is as weak as Tanner. Well, this is to be expected. It's Board 8! When someone asks for 5 PC games, most would have to search the site for names. They basically have no clue who Alyx is.

Frankly, I don't feel the need to educate you on her personality or anything like that. All that you have to know is that she isn't hated, and there's no reason to dislike her. She's the semi-star of Half-Life 2 (with Gordon Freeman) and the main character in Half-Life 2: Episode 1. Sure, she's not playable, but she's recognizable to everyone who has played HL2.

How weak is Alyx? Weak. I'll be the first to admit it. She's probably fodder. But, she'll be strong enough to beat Lara Croft. Sure, Lara has Legend that was somewhat popular. If people are expecting her to boost to her 2003 levels, they're in for a huge surprise. She was falling in 2004, and she continued to fall throughout 2005, I believe. Her new game stopped her from falling, and probably boosted her up to around her 2004 level again. But really, as good as Legend was, people have forgotten completely about it. Ask anyone that's not named XIII is cool, and you'll see. Hardly anyone has played it here. I don't believe that there has been 1 topic talking about that game before this contest. It was that unknown! The board right now is pretty much dead. Came and went in a blink of an eye! I'm being pretty generous with boosting her up to her 2004 level. I could see her being even weaker. Also, it doesn't help that her picture is of her before Legend.

Alyx will be stronger. Why? Because Gordon Freeman is a hell of a lot stronger then her (67% before Episode 1). I'm predicting Gordon gets around 70% on Lara Croft. Alyx is like the Luigi to Gordon Freeman. She's his partner that kicks ass! The difference between Mario and Luigi is the same difference between Gordon and Alyx. Difference is though that Alyx appears on Gordon's most popular game, while Luigi doesn't in Mario's most popular game. I could see her falling between that 70%. In fact, I don't see how she couldn't fall within that 70%. She's definitely weaker then Gordon, but she can't be that much weaker. To compare, this would be like Link and random green haired elf in Kokiri forest. There is no way a main character will be that much weaker then Gordon Freeman.

Of course, can't forget the Lara Croft anti-votes!

And really, that's the way I see it. I've been ridiculed for the past few days, but in a few hours, I believe I'll have my revenge on all of you doubters! And if I'm wrong, then so be it.

My prediction: Alyx Vance wins with 50.01%. I need 6 more words for 1000!



Crew Consensus: Majority is going with Lara, even though the percentages are all over the place. Soul is the sole Alyx-taker.
therealmnm | Posted 9/26/2006 8:09:28 PM | message detail
My analysis for this match:

Alyx who?

Lara Croft wins 72-28.
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Vote for Soma Cruz
Currently playing: Grand Theft Auto 3, Castlevania:Curse of Darkness, Mega Man ZX
Prometheus321 | Posted 9/26/2006 8:09:52 PM | message detail
AVNW
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Hail Z1mZum King of Gurus
R.I.P Steve Irwin, 2/22/62-9/4/06
trannyscience | Posted 9/26/2006 8:52:53 PM | message detail
Chun Li with.. uh, 74.56%.
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xyzzy
Janus5000 | Posted 9/26/2006 8:53:43 PM | message detail
Chun with 80% of the brackets.
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"Those who cast the vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything."
http://www.scorehero.com/scores.php?user=2916&diff=4
BDawg | Posted 9/26/2006 8:55:23 PM | message detail
Ready the blowout cannon for final female fodder volley.
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Should I start running now?
Haste_2 | Posted 9/26/2006 8:56:23 PM | message detail
Chun Li with 81.47% support.

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Sign the Petition for more stats in the GameFAQs Contests here:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=30693799
Master Moltar | Posted 9/26/2006 9:00:14 PM | message detail
Lara Croft 70.83% 17
Alyx Vance 29.17% 7
TOTAL VOTES 24

Ownt
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Moltar Status: Feeling good and hot-blooded.
Lara vs. Alyx - Bracket: Lara - Vote: Lara (14/15)
Karma Hunter | Posted 9/26/2006 9:00:36 PM | message detail
Lara Croft 72.22% 13
Alyx Vance 27.78% 5
TOTAL VOTES 18

Looking good for my prediction at the moment! <_<
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Commit it to memory.
Master Moltar | Posted 9/26/2006 9:00:37 PM | message detail
73.87% had Chun...not as good as I thought.
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Moltar Status: Feeling good and hot-blooded.
Lara vs. Alyx - Bracket: Lara - Vote: Lara (14/15)
Janus5000 | Posted 9/26/2006 9:00:43 PM | message detail
Lara Croft 77.42% 48
Alyx Vance 22.58% 14
TOTAL VOTES 62

Silly people with X's around their names!
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"Those who cast the vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything."
http://www.scorehero.com/scores.php?user=2916&diff=4
greatone10 | Posted 9/26/2006 9:00:50 PM | message detail
Lara Croft 82.95% 107
Alyx Vance 17.05% 22
TOTAL VOTES 129

Wow, Alyx really sucks.
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RIP Eddie Guerrero 1967-2005
Z1mZum made me look like Shadow Hearts in the Guru contest.
trannyscience | Posted 9/26/2006 9:01:08 PM | message detail
heh, wow.
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xyzzy
Karma Hunter | Posted 9/26/2006 9:01:14 PM | message detail
Jeezum crow I knew I should've gone up another 3.5%
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Commit it to memory.
cyko | Posted 9/26/2006 9:01:22 PM | message detail
XD

this is NOT starting well for Alyx. i love it.

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i have officially been Z1mZum'D in the guru contest.
Vincent Valentine to win the Blast Division!!
Heroic Mario | Posted 9/26/2006 9:01:37 PM | message detail
Lara Croft 79.94% 283
Alyx Vance 20.06% 71
TOTAL VOTES 354



Mercy. This is complete domination.

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"Master using it and you can have this."
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/160/masterjg3.jpg
longbladeofhiko | Posted 9/26/2006 9:01:40 PM | message detail
...good lord, I hope this is bracket voting. Or maybe I was right. Maybe Alyx Vance is literally the weakest character since Tanner.
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WWEGSB Hardcore Legend Masa
I jobbed to Z1mZum in the Guru Contest. Did you?
Master Moltar | Posted 9/26/2006 9:01:42 PM | message detail
XD @ 80% already. How bad does that make Alyx look based on 2004 Lara? Quick!
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Moltar Status: Feeling good and hot-blooded.
Lara vs. Alyx - Bracket: Lara - Vote: Lara (14/15)
trannyscience | Posted 9/26/2006 9:02:07 PM | message detail
*waits for PW > GF bandwagon to start*
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xyzzy
Blade Of Evils Bane | Posted 9/26/2006 9:02:59 PM | message detail
FINALLY the last match of the female bracket...

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Can't think of a good sig.
cyko | Posted 9/26/2006 9:03:17 PM | message detail
Chop Chop Master Onion > Alyx Vance!!!

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i have officially been Z1mZum'D in the guru contest.
Vincent Valentine to win the Blast Division!!
Redtooth | Posted 9/26/2006 9:03:31 PM | message detail
*starts*

Irrefutable proof that PW>GF

Tina Armstrong was no fluke!!

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Z1mZum>Redtooth
Nice list, I counted twenty that would be in my top ten - BlondeAfroHero7
Janus5000 | Posted 9/26/2006 9:03:36 PM | message detail
Based on 2k4 Lara, if Alyx finishes at 20%, she's at 5.96% on BL and beats Tanner with 71.58%.
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"Those who cast the vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything."
http://www.scorehero.com/scores.php?user=2916&diff=4