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Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 346

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FlamboyantSpy | Posted 8/20/2006 12:34:47 PM | message detail

I can't believe Samus beats Mario with 56% to Mario beating Samus with 60%, simply because Mario boosts and Samus doesn't.

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The n00b Avenger | Posted 8/20/2006 12:36:21 PM | message detail

Mario is projected to do a little better on Cloud in 2005 than Samus did in 2004. I don't see what the big hullabub is. There's virtually no reason to claim rSFF in that match
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FlamboyantSpy | Posted 8/20/2006 12:37:43 PM | message detail

Virtually no reason to call rSFF? You have to be insane to not even acknowledge the fact that it's a very real possibility that rSFF occurred.

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Explicit Content I have been thoroughly owned by Z1mZum. Cheer me up.
Cheer Up Emo Kids - Team Tranny Did!

ChichiriMuyo | Posted 8/20/2006 12:38:53 PM | message detail

No one said Samus wasn't SFF'd, she just wasn't rSFF'd.

She's simply weaker than Mario now.
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FlamboyantSpy | Posted 8/20/2006 12:40:39 PM | message detail

Okay, that's still a pretty damn huge gap to swing, especially when Samus apparently gets weaker as well. Why should everything Nintendo boost, and Samus be the only one left in the dust? I'd expect Samus to boost more than Kirby, I know that much.

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Explicit Content I have been thoroughly owned by Z1mZum. Cheer me up.
Cheer Up Emo Kids - Team Tranny Did!

The n00b Avenger | Posted 8/20/2006 12:44:57 PM | message detail

Samus didn't get weaker. Even if there wasn't rSFF, Samus can still retain her 2004 value without dropping depending on how you calculate.

Hell, you can even make her go up SLIGHTLY and still have no rSSF. I don't know, seems to me from her matches with Frog and Ganondorf, there didn't seem to be a boost to me...
At the least, nothing as noticable as with the others.
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ertyu and VeghEsther are truly proof that there is much about this world we still do not understand.

FlamboyantSpy | Posted 8/20/2006 12:48:53 PM | message detail

If you want to believe your x-stats, then Samus did get weaker, if you want to say Samus boosted from last year, that puts her above Mario.... stick to your story? kthx

Well if you believe Ganondorf boosts as well thanks to Nintendo boosting, then you can believe they boosted pretty proportionally to each other. Link and Zelda made gains, so why should the pigman? Samus has shown to be incapable of SFFing anything, so all things point to her boosting equally to Ganon. As for Frog, you have to be kidding me if you want me to take his values seriously, they're completely worthless.

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FlamboyantSpy | Posted 8/20/2006 12:49:30 PM | message detail

*why shouldn't the pigman.

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Cheer Up Emo Kids - Team Tranny Did!

Yesmar | Posted 8/20/2006 1:02:36 PM | message detail

I can't believe Samus beats Mario with 56% to Mario beating Samus with 60%, simply because Mario boosts and Samus doesn't.

But if you assume Mario SFF'd Samus then, it doesn't necessarily go from Samus with 56% to Mario with 60%; it could just as well go from Samus with 56% to Mario with 50%.

Personally, I suspect that Samus overperformed on Cloud in 2004. She had TONS of board support and after she tore through her division there were tons of people voting for her, just to see if she had the ability to break 40% on Cloud.

She overperformed by 10 percent against Lara Croft. And you have to assume Halo 2 did nothing for Master Chief and/or that Sephiroth didn't SFF Vivi at all to say that she didn't overperform against Sam as well.
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red sox 777 | Posted 8/20/2006 1:04:18 PM | message detail

I can't believe that Samus boosted with the rest of Nintendo in 2005; that would make Mario's SFF ridiculous, and make Ganondorf absurdly high- he did lose to Magus, after all. Rather, I think Samus fell in 2005. Metroid Prime has sort of fallen out of the collective consciousness of Nintendo fans, and Samus's vote totals have also dropped off.

In 2003, Samus received 81123 votes against Isaac in round 1 with 75.34% of the total votes, putting her behind only the rest of the Noble Nine except for Sonic. However, they all received far higher percentages than did Samus, so this does not reflect her true vote-drawing ability.

In 2004, Samus received 68889 votes against Lara Croft with 82.39% in round 1, in a year with much lower votals. This was good enough to put her at number 6, behind only Clinkeroth, Megaman, and Snake.

In 2005, Samus got 74493 votes against Yuri, with 87.32% in round 1, putting her at #7 in a bracket without Clinkeroth, behind Mario, Vincent, Snake, Megaman, Tifa, and Crono. She put up this lacking vote-total performance while she had the easiest opponent in the bracket, with a higher percentage than anyone else.

That seems to indicate that Samus is no longer at her 2k3/2k4 level. Unfortunately, her 2k5 matches don't help, as they consist of a match against unknown fodder, Frog, and 2 SFF matches. Nonetheless, Samus also finished her 2k3 run with a SFF match, against Link. She received 37.94% against Link. 2 years later, she received 40.21% against Mario. 38% on Link is better than 40% on Mario; it's hard for me to believe that Mario could get that much more SFF than Link. If Mario were that amazing with Nintendo SFF, why didn't he SFF Link in their match (where he did worse than Samus)

So that leaves 2 possibilities:

1. Samus has declined since 2003 (where I think she was SFF'd somewhat by Link, and hence Squall and Luigi were underrated, which helps explain Luigi's boost.)

2. Samus has declined in SFF ability since 2003.

I can't really see the second option happen without the first happening also, at least, against strong competition. So, that means: 2k3 Samus > 2k5 Samus.

Now, 2k3 Samus got 58.20% on 2k3 Squall. 2k5 Crono got 55.38 on Vincent, who got 50.59% on 2k5 Squall, projecting Crono to get 55.91% against Squall, ignoring any potential boost Vincent may have received from AC between his matches against Squall and Crono. So, assuming that Squall did not fall, and there is no reason to believe he has, 2k5 Crono would get ~48% by the xstats on 2k3 Samus. If she did drop enough to turn 38% on Link into 40% on Mario, and especially if Vincent got anything from AC, then Crono would have the advantage in a Crono/Samus match (which we need to see). And he's always had a chance. He did 6% better on the same opponent!

Speaking of common opponents, the x-stats actually did predict Mario/Samus very well. You just had to use a common opponent: Cloud Strife. Mario got 50.11% on Cloud in 2002, and Samus got 40.99% in 2004. The result: Mario gets 59.10% on Samus!
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"The black wind blows... one among you will shortly perish."
~Magus

FlamboyantSpy | Posted 8/20/2006 1:10:00 PM | message detail

Personally, I suspect that Samus overperformed on Cloud in 2004. She had TONS of board support and after she tore through her division there were tons of people voting for her, just to see if she had the ability to break 40% on Cloud.

She overperformed by 10 percent against Lara Croft. And you have to assume Halo 2 did nothing for Master Chief and/or that Sephiroth didn't SFF Vivi at all to say that she didn't overperform against Sam as well.

Board support really doesn't contribute to contest strength. The board accounts for 1% of a match at best.... and that's if everyone's on the same page, and I seriously doubt that. As for Lara Croft... she's completely fallen off the map, and I sure as hell don't trust her strength from 2K3 to 2K4.... hell even if Samus does overperform on her, and then overperforms on Cloud, Lara shouldn't be dropping 10% in the stats. I don't think you can really blame that one on Samus. Master Chief is, has been, and probably always will be an x-stats anomaly. He's Mr. I can't blow **** out, and I'm not gonna get blown out. Using him for any kind of transitivity is ludicrous. As for Sam Fisher... lol magus.

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therealmnm | Posted 8/20/2006 1:11:15 PM | message detail

I do... and yeah, I feel like Samus gets a large portion of her popularity outside of the basic Nintendo fanbase, but at the same time, she still draws a lot from the Nintendo fanbase, it's just that she's towards the lower portion of the totem poll among Nintendo fans.

Blame that on Samus being AWOL for the N64 era before appearing in SSB. To those introduced to gaming in the years after Super Metroid and were introduced to Samus by SSB, there's really little difference between her, Ness, and Captain Falcon are concerned, at least as being tiered below the Mario and Zelda crews are concerned. Samus's presence on the Gamecube and GBA probably put her in a better light, but there's probably still a Mario > Samus stigma among those gamers.

Samus retains her strength though because of the tons of us that have been huge fans of her since the beginning. But there probably is a good sized group of the gamers I described above.
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HaRRicH | Posted 8/20/2006 1:13:46 PM | message detail

In 2k3, I believe a Tomb Raider movie came out the weekend of her match against Zelda...so, between that and Samus simply being much bigger of a force to be reckoned with than Lara (not to mention that the Tomb Raider movies were always a much bigger deal than the Silent Hill movie, so don't bring that up), that could be the reason for that huge drop. I don't know if the movie really was the reason for her dropping in 2k4 instead of 2k3 or not, but outside of FF:AC this is probably the closest case you can make for any character being affected by a movie.....
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Karma Hunter | Posted 8/20/2006 1:17:24 PM | message detail

I, too, don't understand why people don't think Samus boosted in 2k5. It's obvious that a big reason why she's so popular in the first place is the SSB series, and I'd put good money on Ness boosting from 2k4 to 2k5. The degree might not be as large as it was with Mario, but she needs hardly any boost at all to overcome Mario's 2k5 value.

People try to use Mario being *ever* so slightly above Samus' old value in order to justify it as SFF rather than rSFF (because we couldn't possibly entertain rSFF, heavens no), but if you're going to tell me that match would have turned out any differently in 2k4 I'd laugh in your face. 56% at the least, and I'm being extremely generous.

There is little to no indication of Samus' strength in 2k5. Yuri is nothing, she put up Link numbers on Frog (which are wrong, lol), and she put up Sephiroth numbers on Ganondorf (who was behind potential SFF/funky VC numbers). And then there's Mario. There's little reason to think that Samus didn't boost, other than her never getting a chance to spread her wings.

It's one or the other, in my mind, because I don't buy that value up there in the stats for one second. Either she's stronger than Mario and got a taste of the ol' rSFF, or she's overrated in 2k4.
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therealmnm | Posted 8/20/2006 1:18:13 PM | message detail

And why the hell would Samus drop? No matter how you put it, Mario SFF'd the hell out of her. Unless you're trying to say you know the exact proportions of the SFF first hand, you can't gauge how strong Samus is by how badly she got SFF'd. Her performances against Frog and Ganon show no signs of her weakening as well, so I don't know where that notion comes from at all...
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red sox 777 | Posted 8/20/2006 1:22:33 PM | message detail

therealmnm | Posted 8/20/2006 1:22:58 PM | message detail

And it's funny how Samus outperforming Sephiroth on Ganon automatically means that Ganon overperformed on Sephiroth rather than Samus SFFing Ganon a tad. "OMG lolz what are you talking about, Samus can't SFF anybody!" If you actually look, Ganon did stand up to her rather well, but it doesn't mean he still couldn't have been SFF'd a tad. SFF isn't all or nothing. There are varying amounts you know...
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Nominate Carmen Sandiego for SC2k6
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therealmnm | Posted 8/20/2006 1:25:04 PM | message detail

Characters don't need reasons to drop, and 2-year-old numbers are not that much more reliable than SFF numbers. I just don't buy Samus being SFF'd more than 6-7% because she outright did better than Mario against Link.

What did Samus do to make you think she dropped in the first place? No matter what year it is, Mario still SFF's Samus. So where does your Samus dropped claim come from?
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Nominate Carmen Sandiego for SC2k6
Currently playing: Fable, MGS3:S, GTA:SA, MMAC

HaRRicH | Posted 8/20/2006 1:25:26 PM | message detail

Characters don't need reasons to drop, and 2-year-old numbers are not that much more reliable than SFF numbers.

I only agree with you because in 2k4, most matches seemed to be behind some kind of SFF...so, yeah, I'd hope that two-year-old SFF matches aren't that much more reliable than recent SFF matches.

Seriously though, it just depends on the case you're looking at...that's not a standard point to make though.
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Z1mZum performed a hit and run on me in the Guru Contest.
It still hurts to be rear-ended like that.....

Karma Hunter | Posted 8/20/2006 1:27:28 PM | message detail

Hey, I believe in Samus/Ganon SFF...Yuna's not below Rikku or something crazy like that. Not that it makes Samus look any stronger, if anything it could imply weakness.

And Mario/Link 2k2 has always been funky in my mind. After taking out Cloud (the legitimately more popular character) and the Cinderella story Crono in two *very* controversial ways, the man literally had a TAKE MARIO DOWN picture painted on his back -- and many viewed Link as a major underdog in that match.
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red sox 777 | Posted 8/20/2006 1:27:51 PM | message detail

Mario/Samus and Samus/Ganon are both Nintendo SFF matches in which the winner received between between 59 and 60% of the vote. I do not see why people are so ready to attribute lots of SFF to one, and not the other. Ganon and Auron fit perfectly well if the culprit is Samus/Ganon as much as it is Mario/Samus; only Samus is hurt, and we don't have a 2k5 value for her in any case.
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"The black wind blows... one among you will shortly perish."
~Magus

FlamboyantSpy | Posted 8/20/2006 1:28:24 PM | message detail

red sox 777 | Posted 8/20/2006 1:30:02 PM | message detail

What did Samus do to make you think she dropped in the first place? No matter what year it is, Mario still SFF's Samus. So where does your Samus dropped claim come from?

Samus only did 2% better against Mario than she did against Link.

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"The black wind blows... one among you will shortly perish."
~Magus

XxSoulxX | Posted 8/20/2006 1:33:19 PM | message detail

Without thinking: Will the Summer Contest receive relatively the same amount of votals as the Spring Contest?
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HaRRicH | Posted 8/20/2006 1:33:52 PM | message detail

No, but the vote totals will still be very nice.
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Z1mZum performed a hit and run on me in the Guru Contest.
It still hurts to be rear-ended like that.....

FlamboyantSpy | Posted 8/20/2006 1:35:22 PM | message detail

People try to use Mario being *ever* so slightly above Samus' old value in order to justify it as SFF rather than rSFF (because we couldn't possibly entertain rSFF, heavens no), but if you're going to tell me that match would have turned out any differently in 2k4 I'd laugh in your face. 56% at the least, and I'm being extremely generous.

Couldn't agree more. If someone tries to tell me Samus beats Mario in 2K4 I'm going to beat them senseless.

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red sox 777 | Posted 8/20/2006 1:35:45 PM | message detail

I know... because we've never seen a swing of 16 percent or so thanks to SFF. I mean Ganondorf totally held his own against Link, and other blowout SFF matches. Mario is the king of Nintendo, and you're telling me he can't manage to cause that much SFF on Samus of all people. Sure thing, Tex. Ganon lost to Magus in 2K3... sure. The year of Square going crazy, yet in 2K4 and 2K5 when we saw Nintendo start boosting and increasing in power, Ganon has stayed the same all the way though. We see Zelda and Link both benefit an increase in 2K5, and you want me to believe Ganon feels no benefit of a Ninty boost.

Ganon can have a large enough boost, be SFF'd by Samus, and Samus can still wind up at ~47% or so on Mario before SFF.
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"The black wind blows... one among you will shortly perish."
~Magus

Karma Hunter | Posted 8/20/2006 1:36:05 PM | message detail

^No...I really doubt it.

Going back to Ganondorf's value on Sephiroth back during the Spring, though...even though he was obviously SFF'd by Samus, his overperformance on Sephy is even MORE obvious. Please, please, please don't tell me you think Ganondorf is above Crono.
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Karma Hunter | Posted 8/20/2006 1:36:39 PM | message detail

Bah, that was to Soul.
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Commit it to memory.

red sox 777 | Posted 8/20/2006 1:38:41 PM | message detail

And, no, I don't think Samus would have beaten Mario in any year, or gotten much higher than 45%.
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"The black wind blows... one among you will shortly perish."
~Magus

FlamboyantSpy | Posted 8/20/2006 1:38:53 PM | message detail

Also, speaking of Ganondorf, he's a tricky little bastard for me. Possibly overrated in 2K3 thanks to Magus, but in 2K4 suffers SFF and is given his previous years number... Nintendo starts increasing that year, but he isn't given a chance to show if he's boosted or not. You could make the argument that it cancels out him being overrated thanks to Magus, but then in 2K5 I think he gets severely underrated thanks to Samus getting rocked by Mario. Because then you're telling me Ganon drops 1% after Zelda, Link and everything else Nintendo experiences a boost. I want to say he should be much stronger than he appears in the stats, but then looking at how everything is based off him being potentially overrated thanks to Magus, I have no ****ing clue what to think. **** you pigman.

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Cheer Up Emo Kids - Team Tranny Did!

FlamboyantSpy | Posted 8/20/2006 1:40:57 PM | message detail

And, no, I don't think Samus would have beaten Mario in any year, or gotten much higher than 45%.

So then you obviously buy the notion of rSFF.

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Cheer Up Emo Kids - Team Tranny Did!

Karma Hunter | Posted 8/20/2006 1:43:30 PM | message detail

Well, I *know* Ganondorf is underrated to an extent in 2k5, because Yuna is under Rikku, and Auron is under Luigi. I'd never hesitate in either of those matches, even before KH2.
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red sox 777 | Posted 8/20/2006 1:44:33 PM | message detail

So then you obviously buy the notion of rSFF

Yes, I just think that Mario is legitimately stronger than Samus (at least now), but had they met in 2003/4, Mario would have won by rSFF, assuming Samus was legitimately stronger indirectly, which her match against Sonic tells me she was, even if I don't trust her match with Cloud.
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"The black wind blows... one among you will shortly perish."
~Magus

Karma Hunter | Posted 8/20/2006 1:44:55 PM | message detail

Though I did voice my concerns about Luigi's actual value earlier, and Rikku is behind Snake/Bowser if you buy that being flukish...but eh, I still say he got a tad of it.
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Commit it to memory.

HaRRicH | Posted 8/20/2006 1:46:07 PM | message detail

Man, I wish we had x-stats in 2k2 and had Mario/Samus set up in 2k3. Between WDF, the Sunshine Effect, and Metroid Prime coming out, not to mention how absolutely crazy everybody was for the x-stats when they first got big in 2k3, it would have been an even bigger upset for the board then than it was last year.
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Z1mZum performed a hit and run on me in the Guru Contest.
It still hurts to be rear-ended like that.....

therealmnm | Posted 8/20/2006 1:46:42 PM | message detail

And Mario/Link 2k2 has always been funky in my mind. After taking out Cloud (the legitimately more popular character) and the Cinderella story Crono in two *very* controversial ways, the man literally had a TAKE MARIO DOWN picture painted on his back -- and many viewed Link as a major underdog in that match.

The whole 2k2 contest was TAKE MARIO DOWN in my eyes... <_<;
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Karma Hunter | Posted 8/20/2006 1:49:12 PM | message detail

Just having X-Stats in 2k2 would have been enough, seeing as how Cloud > Link was an even BIGGER upset by them.
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Commit it to memory.

FlamboyantSpy | Posted 8/20/2006 1:53:02 PM | message detail

Fo' reals. Anyway, I don't mind someone believing Mario is indirectly stronger than Samus (I don't buy it for a second), but when someone says there is virtually no reason to think Samus is stronger, well that's just complete BS. If we saw Ganon/Snake in this upcoming contest I'd be torn on who to take... I would want Snake to win so much it wouldn't be funny, but I just have a really bad feeling about it.

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Cheer Up Emo Kids - Team Tranny Did!

therealmnm | Posted 8/20/2006 1:58:21 PM | message detail

Man, I wish we had x-stats in 2k2 and had Mario/Samus set up in 2k3. Between WDF, the Sunshine Effect, and Metroid Prime coming out, not to mention how absolutely crazy everybody was for the x-stats when they first got big in 2k3, it would have been an even bigger upset for the board then than it was last year.

I would have taken Mario then. Samus barely got by Sonic, and I would have easily taken Mario over Sonic. I would have wanted Samus to win, but I would have chosen Mario.
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Nominate Carmen Sandiego for SC2k6
Currently playing: Fable, MGS3:S, GTA:SA, MMAC

Zylo the wolf | Posted 8/20/2006 2:04:29 PM | message detail

I think Mario is stronger than Samus now. The DS and New Super Mario Bros makes me believe that. Then again I picked Mario over Samus without thinking last year. To bad that I did think when I picked Chrono > Mario and Dante > Vincent >_>

I hope Luigi gets a predictable place in the bracket, because I think he has great potential this year to destroy a lot of Board 8 users brackets >_>

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FlamboyantSpy | Posted 8/20/2006 2:20:27 PM | message detail

All right... this is my first time really ever making a mock bracket, so if it sucks, blame Quarrma Hunter. Anyway, rate it, predict it if you want... I didn't make a female bracket because there are going to be far too many newcomers, and I'm not interested in spending any time actually making one. I tried making the seeding pretty realistic too.

1 Solid Snake
8 Tingle

4 Leon Kennedy
5 Tidus

3 Luigi
6 Knuckles

2 Ganondorf
7 Prince of Persia

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1 Sora
8 Captain Falcon

4 Auron
5 Zero

3 Bowser
6 Vincent Valentine

2 Squall
7 Fox McCloud

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1 Sonic
8 Soma

4 Ryu
5 Alucard

3 Kirby
6 Magus

2 Mega Man
7 Phoenix Wright

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1 Crono
8 CATS

4 Vivi
5 Gordon Freeman

3 Dante
6 Yoshi

2 Master Chief
7 Donkey Kong
-------------------------------

I'm not entirely happy with it, but overall I think it's pretty decent.

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Explicit Content I have been thoroughly owned by Z1mZum. Cheer me up.
Cheer Up Emo Kids - Team Tranny Did!

Cavalier Lowen | Posted 8/20/2006 2:28:33 PM | message detail

1 Solid Snake
8 Tingle

4 Leon Kennedy
5 Tidus

3 Luigi
6 Knuckles

2 Ganondorf
7 Prince of Persia

-------------------------------

1 Sora
8 Captain Falcon

4 Auron
5 Zero

3 Bowser
6 Vincent Valentine

2 Squall
7 Fox McCloud

-------------------------------

1 Sonic
8 Soma

4 Ryu
5 Alucard

3 Kirby
6 Magus

2 Mega Man
7 Phoenix Wright

-------------------------------

1 Crono
8 CATS

4 Vivi
5 Gordon Freeman

3 Dante
6 Yoshi

2 Master Chief
7 Donkey Kong
-------------------------------

Bowser>Snake, Mega Man>Crono, Mega Man>Bowser.

Yes, those two upsets (bowser/snake, MM/Crono) burned me last year, I don't care.
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Z1mZum owned me in the guru contest (by two points!). Damn you Z1mZum!

Cavalier Lowen | Posted 8/20/2006 2:30:09 PM | message detail

^Good bracket btw, Luigi>Ganondorf is a very realistic upset IMO, and there were a lot of other matchups I had to think on (notably Bowser/Squall/Snake).
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Z1mZum owned me in the guru contest (by two points!). Damn you Z1mZum!

FlamboyantSpy | Posted 8/20/2006 2:32:02 PM | message detail

Thank you, good sir.

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Explicit Content I have been thoroughly owned by Z1mZum. Cheer me up.
Cheer Up Emo Kids - Team Tranny Did!

Tediz247 | Posted 8/20/2006 2:35:14 PM | message detail

1 Solid Snake
8 Tingle

4 Leon Kennedy
5 Tidus (I'm damn tempted to take Leon though...)

3 Luigi
6 Knuckles

2 Ganondorf
7 Prince of Persia

-------------------------------

1 Sora
8 Captain Falcon

4 Auron
5 Zero

3 Bowser
6 Vincent Valentine

2 Squall
7 Fox McCloud

-------------------------------

1 Sonic
8 Soma

4 Ryu
5 Alucard

3 Kirby
6 Magus

2 Mega Man
7 Phoenix Wright

-------------------------------

1 Crono
8 CATS

4 Vivi
5 Gordon Freeman

3 Dante
6 Yoshi

2 Master Chief
7 Donkey Kong
-------------------------------

Vincent > Snake (damn, this hurts), Crono > Sonic, Crono > Vincent
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Guru status: Z1mZum'd.
ZSB [aX]

Heroic Mario | Posted 8/20/2006 2:40:35 PM | message detail

I do wonder what brought on the Mario surge though. I guess the DS? SM64DS was released along with it, for whatever it's worth...but, I mean, I wouldn't think that would be the only thing, since it was still just an upgraded port on a handheld.

I have not looked at the stats in a while, but I seem to recall the majority of the Nintendo Boost being Mario-based (I made mention of this before, too) -- Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Yoshi, and Donkey Kong. I believe that they all ended up with the largest boosts more than any other character(s), which could be just because of how many Mario characters there are in relation to other characters from Nintendo, but you know.

As for the reason, I would definitely suspect it was the Nintendo DS more than anything else, which may have just pushed along the shift toward Nintendo, similar to how Kingdom Hearts would have been there to help Square. For what it is worth, Super Mario 64 DS had sold over a million copies right before the contest had started, and Nintendo was starting to put the NDS/SM64DS into one package right before the contest began.

It might have been just a remake of an older game, but Super Mario 64 was still a large game. I would want to avoid the "role in the game" argument again, but Luigi being playable in that game, especially when he was sorely missed back when SM64 came out, may have helped some in conjunction with the overall shift.

This whole "Mario increase" was what originally led me to thinking that Super Mario Bros. could have taken out Final Fantasy and possibly Zelda during the bracket making process and after its first couple of performances. Mario things in general, at least, appear to be getting stronger more than any other characters in these contests. Pretty much every Mario character was at the strongest they've ever been in a contest in 2005. Of course, I suppose that applies to nearly all the Nintendo characters, but you know ... !!

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“I haven’t invested as much time into any game as I have [Twilight Princess].” – Shigeru Miyamoto

CountCrazy007 | Posted 8/20/2006 2:42:05 PM | message detail

The Mario increase might show a slower shift towards more mainstream stuff in GameFAQs. Mario is the most popular video game character.
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4th Place of the Fall 2005 10-Year Anniversary Contest

Heroic Mario | Posted 8/20/2006 2:52:05 PM | message detail

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Heroic Mario | Posted 8/20/2006 2:55:38 PM | message detail

1 Solid Snake
5 Tidus

3 Luigi
2 Ganondorf

(Note: If we learn that this Snake/Ganon match occurs after TP, then things would change.)
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1 Sora
4 Auron

6 Vincent Valentine
2 Squall

(Note: Bowser/Vincent is really hard, especially given that the critics bashed the game more than I had expected. If some poll indicates not many buying DoC or sales numbers being low, then would change too.)
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1 Sonic
4 Ryu

3 Kirby
2 Mega Man

(Note: Sonic/Mega Man is tough, but I figure Sonic can maybe pull this one out after some prominent stuff coming down the pipeline and Sonic's awesome performance in the Series Contest.)
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1 Crono
4 Vivi

3 Dante
7 Donkey Kong

(Note: Not much to say, really.)

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“I haven’t invested as much time into any game as I have [Twilight Princess].” – Shigeru Miyamoto

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