GameFAQs Contests
Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 334
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| longbladeofhiko | Posted 7/30/2006 1:32:19 PM | message detail |
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So I just now got around to seeing the FF/Mario pic and let me tell you.....lol wtf. --- WWEGSB Hardcore Legend Masa longbladeofhiko, I hereby give you my official seal of owneditude.-Hogasm |
| FlamboyantSpy | Posted 7/30/2006 1:32:51 PM | message detail |
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that new voter pool would favor Metroid more than it did. I don't think you can really say new voter pool = younger generation that will have mostly only experienced games from the here and now though.... I didn't come here until April of 03, but my first console was the NES. Yeah, anecdotal, but it's not like you have any real proof of anything different. --- Explicit Content Cheer Up Emo Kids - Team Tranny Did! |
| FlamboyantSpy | Posted 7/30/2006 1:34:25 PM | message detail |
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EC, we know that was a one-time thing, much like that one time a woman touched you. Your mother has touched me multiple times FYI! Seriously though, if that match had occurred 15 times in 2K2, I would expect it to come out with the same result, or very close to it every single time.... I don't think it was a fluke match, it just points towards 2K2 being a totally different year from every thing else we've ever seen. --- Explicit Content Cheer Up Emo Kids - Team Tranny Did! |
| HaRRicH | Posted 7/30/2006 1:34:54 PM | message detail |
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Which I've already noted, but while I spent alot of time focusing on
why Metroid had the most reason to improve due to all that and having
literally nothing the generation before, my main thing is that it
should reasonably gain in a poll like that more than Mario should. If anything though, I think the biggest differences in another poll like that would be LoZ winning with more (thanks to LoZ:WW and LoZ:TP if it's out by then) and SSB would take F-Zero's place and shake up the percentages more. --- Miss my Four-Pack Of Fun? Go here: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=585007 |
| Sir Crono | Posted 7/30/2006 1:36:03 PM | message detail |
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It's reasonable to an extent, but debatable nonetheless and nothing I would take as a certainty. --- As you wish. |
| YoAriel33 | Posted 7/30/2006 1:36:44 PM | message detail |
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Agreed. If there's anything that keeps Zelda from gaining half the
votes in a Nintendo poll, it's Smash Bros. I bet it would still be on
the verge of doubling Mario. --- Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your WOOOOOOOOORLD!!! |
| HaRRicH | Posted 7/30/2006 1:38:08 PM | message detail |
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I'd point to Tina/Gordon, Jill/Kirby, DK/Aya, and Mega Man/Sephiroth before Mario/Cloud then. I'm not trying to say that it should be winning over the new massive crowd though, but rather that it's done plenty to boost itself up more to be a favorite amongst gamers of any age. --- Miss my Four-Pack Of Fun? Go here: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=585007 |
| Kaxon | Posted 7/30/2006 1:38:22 PM | message detail |
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Agreed. It's ****ing Mario, and it's ****ing FF. Everyone's got
their minds made up before looking at the picture.* When it takes two
losers like Gordon Freeman and Tina Armstrong to actually get the match
pic to matter... yeah. *Well, I don't, honestly. You, someone who follows the contest more closely than 99.99% of voters, haven't made up your mind yet. Why do you assume the other 130000+ voters all have? Plenty of people like both series. I'll never understand why some people find it so hard to believe that a picture can influence people's votes... even people who've admitted to voting based on the picture themselves. (Not saying you're going to decide based on the picture, but other people have). I could easily see this picture gaining Mario 1-2%... it's unlikely to change the outcome of the match, but still. --- Nominate Aeris for SC2k6 |
| FlamboyantSpy | Posted 7/30/2006 1:38:44 PM | message detail |
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I still don't disagree that Zelda would definitely be the heavy
favorite over Mario in a poll like that, but I don't think it's really
worth using considering the age of it. Regardless, I don't see how FF
has to get 60% on Mario to have it remain the favorite. --- Explicit Content Cheer Up Emo Kids - Team Tranny Did! |
| Sir Crono | Posted 7/30/2006 1:39:25 PM | message detail |
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Heh, in a match likely to hit 135-140k votes, I find even 1% to be unlikely. --- As you wish. |
| Kaxon | Posted 7/30/2006 1:41:06 PM | message detail |
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I haven't see anybody say that match picture made them change their vote. I've seen people say it in this very topic. Cloud vs Duke is the most prominent example I can remember. --- Nominate Aeris for SC2k6 |
| FlamboyantSpy | Posted 7/30/2006 1:41:56 PM | message detail |
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I've seen people say it in this very topic. Cloud vs Duke is the most prominent example I can remember. Madden vs. Mario, Snake vs. Sora, SSB vs. FFX. --- Explicit Content Cheer Up Emo Kids - Team Tranny Did! |
| HaRRicH | Posted 7/30/2006 1:42:04 PM | message detail |
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Agreed. If there's anything that keeps Zelda from gaining half the
votes in a Nintendo poll, it's Smash Bros. I bet it would still be on
the verge of doubling Mario. Okay, well-said, I mixed my words last time. Ahem...without SSB, LoZ wins with more than last time. With SSB, I'll agree with you, and I wonder how well it'd hold up against every other Nintendo franchise. It already blew stat-minds against SMB afew days ago, faring FAR better than a weaker Metroid did against a stronger LoZ and showed you're going to have a dandy of a time trying to SFF it despite having less games than any other series in that poll..... --- Miss my Four-Pack Of Fun? Go here: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=585007 |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 7/30/2006 1:43:03 PM | message detail |
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It may be outdated, but how much do you think the pecking order and
gaps have really changed? I'll go ahead and post the poll just for easy
referencing: The order of the series aren't going to change, but the percentages that they get most definitely will. Zelda is not going to be getting 50% in that poll if you take it again. I don't see how you could honestly expect it to hit those same percentages when this site has certainly changed more here for other series than it has for Zelda. No doubt that Zelda is still going to win that poll without much trouble, but Mario is not going to gather up half the percentage that Zelda gets again. The fact that this poll was taken in 2001 with a whopping 12,704 total votes more or less removes any and all relevance it has. Unless, of course, you want me to pull up old Final Fantasy polls where FFVII and FFVI were actually close. Nothing is going to change much, right? Tell me what Mario's done to put itself so much further ahead of the pack than Metroid or even LoZ this generation. I'm more concerned with the fact that more than anything else, Mario looks like he is on the biggest rise as of late. That "Nintendo Boost" was bigger for the Mario characters than anyone else -- Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Yoshi, Donkey Kong. All of them got the most noticeable boosts. Nothing has been more impressive lately than Mario. Zelda certainly has not had this amazing new addition to its series that warrants it increasing by so much over the years anyway. Mario has been at his best and strongest in recent years -- this applies to all Mario characters -- and not way back in 2001. There is just no way you're getting me to think about taking your "reasoning" seriously if you're going to use a poll from 2001 to back it up. --- Give you 10G if you act like a chicken! Yes. No. |
| Draco1214 | Posted 7/30/2006 1:45:38 PM | message detail |
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The pic will not affect the result of Mario/FF much. FF had Vaan, Amano
art Kain, Zidane, and FFX-2 Yuna against RE. It was still able to
triple it with over 100k votes. --- Organization XIII - Number III - Xordac Currently Playing - Suikoden V, Street Fighter Alpha 3, New Super Mario Bros. |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 7/30/2006 1:47:09 PM | message detail |
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Regardless, I don't see how FF has to get 60% on Mario to have it remain the favorite. It doesn't. No one is even thinking like that except Harrich. --- Give you 10G if you act like a chicken! Yes. No. |
| Kaxon | Posted 7/30/2006 1:49:11 PM | message detail |
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Or you'd think an insanely larger voting pool is much more likely to favor Zelda as opposed to Metroid. Heh, in a match likely to hit 135-140k votes, I find even 1% to be unlikely. Honest question, why do you think a larger voter pool is likely to change either of these things? It goes against everything I know about statistics, unless you demonstrate a reason that the previous smaller voter pool was not a representative sample of the overall GameFAQs voting population. --- Nominate Aeris for SC2k6 |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 7/30/2006 1:49:25 PM | message detail |
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If anything though, I think the biggest differences in another poll
like that would be LoZ winning with more (thanks to LoZ:WW and LoZ:TP
if it's out by then) and SSB would take F-Zero's place and shake up the
percentages more. Zelda would win by more if Twilight Princess is taken into consideration, but I was not thinking of that poll being taken after its release. --- Give you 10G if you act like a chicken! Yes. No. |
| RPGuy96 | Posted 7/30/2006 1:51:14 PM | message detail |
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Link/Mario 2k5 is expected to be just about the same as Link/Mario 2k2, looking at the stats. --- Luigi, Magus, Kefka, Ike, Alucard, Phoenix Wright Lyn, Peach, Celes, Lenneth, Presea, Alex Roivas |
| Sir Crono | Posted 7/30/2006 1:51:22 PM | message detail |
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Honest question, why do you think a larger voter pool is likely to
change either of these things? It goes against everything I know about
statistics, unless you demonstrate a reason that the previous smaller
voter pool was not a representative sample of the overall GameFAQs
voting population. Let's end the debate now. Which was the best Final Fantasy game? 191 3.25% Final Fantasy I 50 0.85% Final Fantasy II 126 2.14% Final Fantasy III 202 3.44% Final Fantasy IV 251 4.27% Final Fantasy IV EasyType 282 4.8% Final Fantasy V 1966 33.44% Final Fantasy VI 1472 25.04% Final Fantasy VII 1339 22.78% Final Fantasy VIII What's the best Squaresoft game of all time? 441 5.03% Chrono Cross 1886 21.53% Chrono Trigger 1358 15.5% Final Fantasy VI (III) 1882 21.48% Final Fantasy VII 751 8.57% Final Fantasy IX 728 8.31% Final Fantasy Tactics 987 11.27% Xenogears 727 8.3% Other TOTAL VOTES: 8760 --- As you wish. |
| Sir Crono | Posted 7/30/2006 1:52:36 PM | message detail |
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And honestly, things have changed massively from 2002 to 2003, 2003 to 2004, 2004 to 2005. --- As you wish. |
| HaRRicH | Posted 7/30/2006 1:53:21 PM | message detail |
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It's all we got though, and it's not like it's a bad outline. It's not
like the FF7/FF6 poll -- it's not THAT wrong at all. I've seen the
poll, analyzed it, and tried to explain what I thought had changed
since then and why certain series would do better or worse
today...where's the wrong in that? Anyway, on top of LoZ doubling Mario and beating every other Nintendo franchise in that poll, I also made mention that Link still broke 60% on Mario head-to-head in 2k2 and that Link would still be expected to break 60% on Mario as recently as last year. LoZ's two biggest games have also outdone any Mario game you want to mention twice -- in two different ways -- not to mention LoZ is probably the only series you can say that there is a must-have game on each Nintendo console from it. SMS is one of the top-sellers, but would you call it a must-have for the Gamecube? LoZ's presence > SMB's presence on both the N64 and SNES, too, not to mention that LoZ kept very respectable against SMB3 (and was possibly even SFF'd). That's my reasoning for thinking LoZ > FF is likely if SMB breaks 40%. --- Miss my Four-Pack Of Fun? Go here: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=585007 |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 7/30/2006 1:54:02 PM | message detail |
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Link/Mario 2k5 is expected to be just about the same as Link/Mario 2k2, looking at the stats. One has Mario getting 37% and the other nearly getting 40%. That's not really what I would call about the same. --- Give you 10G if you act like a chicken! Yes. No. |
| RPGuy96 | Posted 7/30/2006 1:55:59 PM | message detail |
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You don't think Link could steal away 2.12% due to SFF? --- Luigi, Magus, Kefka, Ike, Alucard, Phoenix Wright Lyn, Peach, Celes, Lenneth, Presea, Alex Roivas |
| Kaxon | Posted 7/30/2006 1:56:34 PM | message detail |
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Those polls were taken six years ago. If they'd gotten 150000 people to vote on November 29, 2000, the results would have been pretty much the same. --- Nominate Aeris for SC2k6 |
| Sir Crono | Posted 7/30/2006 1:57:21 PM | message detail |
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Regardless, that's not exactly a fair argument (and it almost sort of
goes against what you're trying to argue). Mario's and Link's strengths
have changed drastically even in 4 years. And they haven't been
proportional every year either, for that matter. --- As you wish. |
| HaRRicH | Posted 7/30/2006 1:57:30 PM | message detail |
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Zelda would win by more if Twilight Princess is taken into
consideration, but I was not thinking of that poll being taken after
its release. I was meaning that -- though LoZ could could already win by more because of LoZ:WW, it would win with even more than that if it had LoZ:TP, which is getting closer and closer. --- Miss my Four-Pack Of Fun? Go here: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=585007 |
| Sir Crono | Posted 7/30/2006 1:58:42 PM | message detail |
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Those polls were taken six years ago. Which is essentially why I said trusting a Favorite Nintendo Poll to carry over proportionally to now doesn't make any sense, especially when you see how much voters' tastes change, even from year to year. --- As you wish. |
| HaRRicH | Posted 7/30/2006 2:01:29 PM | message detail |
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Which is essentially why I said trusting a Favorite Nintendo Poll to
carry over proportionally to now doesn't make any sense, especially
when you see how much voters' tastes change, even from year to year. Which was what I was trying to say with that poll from the very beginning AND tried to explain why certain things would probably change for better or for worse, but instead the focus was made to be "dude, that poll's old" instead of what I was actually arguing. --- Miss my Four-Pack Of Fun? Go here: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=585007 |
| Sir Crono | Posted 7/30/2006 2:03:10 PM | message detail |
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But "Dude, that poll's old" is all the reason not to put much stock
into it. You can argue why you think something should happen all you
want, but that's not a good representative sample of GameFAQs today. --- As you wish. |
| Slowflake | Posted 7/30/2006 2:03:58 PM | message detail |
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While we're on the subject, I just wanted to bring up something interesting http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1590 The question was in regards to GameRankings. The correct answer was Metroid Prime, yet Wind Waker STILL had almost half the votes. And then 18 days later: http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1646 Talk about killing the hype for that match. It was hugely discussed before the GameRankings poll, but after that everyone knew WW was going to take it. --- i thought people on gamefaqs had good taste in games i guess i was wrong -EstUmbra Oooh... Yeah... I need... condom... sixty nine!! -IENJOYHAM |
| Kaxon | Posted 7/30/2006 2:04:45 PM | message detail |
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Which is essentially why I said trusting a Favorite Nintendo Poll to
carry over proportionally to now doesn't make any sense, especially
when you see how much voters' tastes change, even from year to year. Yeah, I totally agree with you there. I'm not arguing in favor of using that old poll, I was just asking why you think the number of voters would change the results or reduce the effect of the picture. That doesn't make any sense. The worst was last year, when some people tried to claim that high vote totals benefitted Square, just because there had been high vote totals in 2003. D'oh! --- Nominate Aeris for SC2k6 |
| Sir Crono | Posted 7/30/2006 2:05:14 PM | message detail |
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LOL Prince of Persia --- As you wish. |
| Sir Crono | Posted 7/30/2006 2:06:20 PM | message detail |
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I'm not arguing in favor of using that old poll, I was just asking
why you think the number of voters would change the results or reduce
the effect of the picture I honestly think the number of people likely to be swayed by the picture is very small anyway and not likely to be a fixed rate, but that's just my opinion. --- As you wish. |
| consolefreak | Posted 7/30/2006 2:18:21 PM | message detail |
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I don't really see how the pic only affects unknown contestants. In a match like FF-SMB, you have a lot
of people who have played both series, and like them about as much. A
vote could easily be tipped towards SMB's favour, in such an event. Just look at Snake. Is he a weak contestant? He does get hurt badly from his crappy sprite pics. In any case, I don't want to overblow this, the pic doesn't really matter to me as long as it doesn't change the winner (and I'm pretty sure it won't). --- Sp2k6: 43/48. LoZ VS. MG Tomorrow: SMB VS. FF |
| Sir Crono | Posted 7/30/2006 2:20:14 PM | message detail |
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The main difference is that Final Fantasy doesn't have a crappy
picture. It's not Solid Snake sprite ugly, that's for sure. It's not
going to make the voters go, "Ugh, what is that?"
Honestly, a picture would have to be hideous or ridiculously stacked
before I see it making a noticeable impact, and that match picture is
neither. --- As you wish. |
| Link versus Cloud | Posted 7/30/2006 2:22:45 PM | message detail |
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I'd definitely believe the series pecking order being identical to the Noble 9 (with only the order switched around): Final Fantasy Zelda Mario Super Smash Bros. (I guess this counts as Link, Mario, and Samus) Metal Gear Mega Man Sonic Chrono (I hate you, CJayC) -- The Rest If FF beats Zelda MM will be above MG and wtf at Crono --- Current Contest Score:43/48 Losses: Halo, GTA, Elder Scrolls, Sonic(x2) Today's Pick: Zelda |
| Sir Crono | Posted 7/30/2006 2:23:46 PM | message detail |
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Mega Man won't necessarily be above Metal Gear. Final Fantasy could just squeak by and that would put Metal Gear ahead. --- As you wish. |
| consolefreak | Posted 7/30/2006 2:24:21 PM | message detail |
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The main difference is that Final Fantasy doesn't have a crappy
picture. It's not Solid Snake sprite ugly, that's for sure. It's not
going to make the voters go, "Ugh, what is that?" Honestly, a picture
would have to be hideous or ridiculously stacked before I see it making
a noticeable impact, and that match picture is neither. Yeah that's a solid point. It's not like FF's going to be missing out on recognition votes. Although the old side is pretty crappy. And someone like Cloud instead of Ashe could tip some doubter's minds towards FF, but yeah, in the end, it's just a pic. It shouldn't change the outcome. --- Sp2k6: 43/48. LoZ VS. MG Tomorrow: SMB VS. FF |
| Dilated Chemist | Posted 7/30/2006 2:25:08 PM | message detail |
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Finish the bracket! Or fix it! http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=29586098 Luminaire Division 1) Crono 8) CATS 4) Sub-Zero 5) Donkey Kong 3) Sora 6) Pac-Man 2) Kirby 7) Koopa Division 1) Bowser 8) 4) Master Chief 5) Luigi 3) Princess Toadstool (Peach) 6) Diablo 2) Knuckles the Echidna 7) Triforce Division 1) Zelda 8) 4) Kefka 5) KOS-MOS 3) Prince of Persia 6) Tommy Vercetti 2) Aeris Gainsborough 7) Phoenix Wright Chaos Division 1) Sonic the Hedgehog 8) 4) 5) 3) Alucard 6) Captain Falcon 2) Squall Leonhart 7) Revolver Ocelot 20XX Division 1) Mega Man 8) 4) Cammy 5) Chun-Li 3) Mewtwo 6) Leon Kennedy 2) Ganondorf 7) Devil Division 1) Vincent Valentine 8) 4) Carl Johnson 5) Gordon Freeman 3) Shadow the Hedgehog 6) Ness 2) Tifa Lockheart 7) Zebes Division 1) Samus Aran 8) 4) Scorpion 5) Lenneth Valkyrie 3) Yoshi 6) Frog 2) Zero 7) Foxhound Division 1) Solid Snake 8) 4) Magus 5) Tidus 3) Ryu (Street Fighter) 6) 2) Auron 7) --- =DC= Chemistry can be a good and bad thing. Chemistry is good when you make love with it. Chemistry is bad when you make crack with it. |
| Read_Only_Thx | Posted 7/30/2006 2:35:53 PM | message detail |
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Assume Zelda/FF has this match pic: http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7171/thefinalwo6.png Who would win? --- Nominate Nidoran F. http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=29527160 |
| Slowflake | Posted 7/30/2006 2:36:53 PM | message detail |
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Mario. Yes, I went there. --- i thought people on gamefaqs had good taste in games i guess i was wrong -EstUmbra Oooh... Yeah... I need... condom... sixty nine!! -IENJOYHAM |
| YoAriel33 | Posted 7/30/2006 2:38:14 PM | message detail |
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Final Fantasy. Unless Mario really fights tooth and nail tonight, Final Fantasy will be the favorite. --- Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your WOOOOOOOOORLD!!! |
| Slowflake | Posted 7/30/2006 2:39:11 PM | message detail |
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If Mario fights tooth and nail tonight, it'll take the lead in the morning and win. Yeah, I know what you meant, I just wanted to be anal. --- i thought people on gamefaqs had good taste in games i guess i was wrong -EstUmbra Oooh... Yeah... I need... condom... sixty nine!! -IENJOYHAM |
| Kaxon | Posted 7/30/2006 2:52:28 PM | message detail |
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Assume Zelda/FF has this match pic: http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7171/thefinalwo6.png Who would win? Castlevania! --- Nominate Aeris for SC2k6 |
| steve illumina | Posted 7/30/2006 3:37:11 PM | message detail |
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I really do love this picture Ceej used today...simple yet elegant...best of the contest so far IMHO. --- Steve Illumina: Sage of Board 8 & Elitist Analyst Score: 52/56, Nominate Kitana (MK)! |
| FlamboyantSpy | Posted 7/30/2006 3:52:16 PM | message detail |
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Sir Crono | Posted 7/30/2006 5:05:14 PM | message detail LOL Prince of Persia PoP was almost as high as Mario on that poll! Link - 50.00 Mario - 40.00 Prince of Persia - 39.01 Book it! --- Explicit Content Cheer Up Emo Kids - Team Tranny Did! |
| charmander6000 | Posted 7/30/2006 4:28:04 PM | message detail |
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Match XXX: (1) Super Mario Bros. vs. (1) Final Fantasy Past Matches Super Mario Bros Defeated Madden NFL, 92.21% - 7.79% Defeated Warcraft, 81.13% - 18.87% Defeated Super Smash Bros, 61.76% - 38.24% Final Fantasy Defeated Diablo, 85.98% - 14.02% Defeated Mega Man, 74.19% - 25.81% Defeated Resident Evil, 76.06% - 23.94% Analysis: SMB was the first of the Big 3 to show any weakness of any kind as it was fail to SFF SSB last round and destroying any hopes of an upset against Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy raps up its division by beating Resident Evil worse than it did Mega Man and like LoZ it has scored over 100k in all three of its matches. This is the first match of the Big 3 and the winner would get to face LoZ in the finals to see what the Best Series Ever is. When the contest first started I compared the Big 3 to Clinkeroth, Final Fantasy was Link, strong favorite to take the contest, The Legend of Zelda was Cloud, the best chance of upsetting Final Fantasy and Super Mario Bros. was Sephiroth, even though no one outside the Big 3 can touch it, it can’t really touch the other two members of the Big 3. After the match against SSB the board has though SMB is weaker than we first thought. I think SSB was a strong series in its own right. The reason SMB couldn’t SFF SSB was unlike most Nintendo series where it only has the backing of the main fans of the series while the rest of Nintendo could betray it over another Nintendo series, SSB has appeal to most Nintendo fans because it has their favorite Nintendo character in it. I’m not saying Super Mario Bros. might upset, I’m just saying that Final Fantasy won’t run over it just because it couldn’t SFF SSB. The final match was thought to be Final Fantasy vs. The Legend of Zelda and it will end as that match, but Super Mario Bros. will be sure to leave its mark before losing tomorrow. Hopefully the board will make it have a small lead at the beginning of the poll. charmander6000’s Bracket: Final Fantasy over Super Mario Bros. charmander6000’s Prediction: Final Fantasy wins, 54.94% - 45.06% --- "I was trying to escape. Obviously, it didn't work." - President Bush |
| FastFalcon05 | Posted 7/30/2006 5:30:03 PM | message detail |
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Getting 58% on a chump was just that much more foreboding. Hey! I know this was covered about three posts after you posted it, but, but, but....hey! Kingdom Hearts is no chump. --- Revenge is a dish best served cold. ~ Old Klingon Proverb |
| Karma Hunter | Posted 7/30/2006 5:40:49 PM | message detail |
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Yes it is! According to newbs I've seen posting today, Kingdom Hearts
would lose to Star Ocean, let alone beat something *really* tough like
Kirby. Pokemon would triple it. --- Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace. These are codes of behavior. |