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Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 312

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UltimaterializerX | Posted 7/12/2006 3:45:29 AM | message detail
Every time I move the Dragonhawk Rider, I swear he's saying "For the whore!".



*Creativename's websites*

Everything you could ever imagine:
http://www.GameFAQsContests.com
http://www.sc2k5.com
http://www.sc2k4.com

Sortable Table for Every Contest Match:
http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/19



*Extrapolated Standings*

Explanation of Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/11

Simple Explanation of Extrapolated Standings:
A = Strongest Character
B = Character Weaker than A
C = Character Weaker than B
To figure out a character's Xsts Percentage ---> [(CvB)(BvA)]/50 = CvA
To compare how C would do against B ---> [(CvA)/(BvA)]*50 = CvB
To figure out how B would do against A ---> [(CvA)/(CvB)]*50 = BvA

Extrapolated Standings for All Contests (links to all brackets are on the left):
http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/drupal/



*Solarshadow's Sites*

Summer 2002 Contest:
http://solarshadow2002.tripod.com

Summer 2003 Contest:
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/2003/index.html

Spring 2004 Contest: (not currently updating)
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/sp2004/index.html



*Old Stats topics*

Summer 2002 Contest:
http://solarshadow2002.tripod.com/page1.html

Summer 2003 Contest:
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/archive/topic1p1.html
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/sum_contest/Page1.htm (See note)

2003-2004 Off-Season:
http://membres.lycos.fr/shindohikaru/stats1.htm (See note)
Note: Don't use the links in the topic to browse through the pages, change the page number in the URL.

Spring 2004 Pre-Season (Chance the number after "Season" to view other pages; there are three of them):
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringPreSeason1.htm

Spring 2004 Contest (Change the number after "Stats" to view other pages; there are eight of them):
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats1.htm



*Match Pictures*

All the match pics, save for three from 2002:
http://sc2k5.com/gallery/index.php



*Miscellaneous*

Creativename's Page of Links:
http://sc2k4.com/links.php

UltimaterializerX's Contest Sites (some offensive language):
http://prophetchallenge.hyperboards2.com/index.cgi
http://freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/

NGamer64's Archive Site and (lol) X-Stats Sim (some offensive language):
http://thengamer.com/gamefaqs/
http://thengamer.com/xstats
http://thengamer.com/stats

A List of Acronyms, A Lesson on Percentages, and Some Odd Matches:
http://freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/acronymspercentsanomalies.htm

All Time Top 25/Top 10 Lists:
http://www.rpgdl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3251

HaRRicH's Fourpack of Fun Board:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=585007

TRE's poll listing (every poll!):
http://members.shaw.ca/tre/Polls.html

Aprosenf's Poll Script:
http://www.geocities.com/aprosenf/allpolls.txt

GameFAQs' Top 100 Games:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/top10/top10_100.html


!yawa tsoP
Karma Hunter | Posted 7/12/2006 3:46:31 AM | message detail
Well...he is.
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Commit it to memory.
Gooper Blooper | Posted 7/12/2006 4:39:14 AM | message detail
Obligatory "WAT SO SOON" post
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People are going to buy two machines. They're going to buy an Xbox and they're going to buy a Wii... for the price of one PS3. - Peter Moore
steve illumina | Posted 7/12/2006 5:05:26 AM | message detail
11-0 :)
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Steve Illumina: 'Sage of Board 8', Adored by Elites, Hated by Fanbabies, Loved by Girly Gamers!
torey luvullo | Posted 7/12/2006 5:06:58 AM | message detail
with all his alts, i suppose luster is a horde all by himself.

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come and lurk with us - LURKERS' BOARD:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=585099
Zylo the wolf | Posted 7/12/2006 11:00:08 AM | message detail
Castlevania > Kingdom Hearts
Sonic > SSB.


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1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
Draco1214 | Posted 7/12/2006 11:01:00 AM | message detail
Street Fighter > Resident Evil
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Organization XIII - Number III - Xordac
Currently Playing - Suikoden V, Capcom vs. SNK 2
jonthomson | Posted 7/12/2006 12:53:55 PM | message detail
Match 12 - Super Smash Bros vs. Dragon Quest

Oh god, it's another stupidly easy to call first round match, we all know which way this is going to go, it's just a case of margin of victory. SSB is pretty much universally loved on the board, and we've seen Melee be very strong in a games context. It's got all of Nintendo's powerful superstars and Mewtwo behind it. Brawl is more or less the most hyped game in years.

Then we have Dragon Quest, a series which I know next to nothing about, apart from that it's really quite popular in Japan according to an article I read in the Times' entertainment supplement. It's been going since the NES days, and if it wasn't for the fact that outside of Japan it's pretty obscure, it could potentially be a midcarder with upset potential. But it isn't, so it isn't.

Super Smash Bros won't have any trouble winning this one, what will be more interesting is seeing the size of the victory and, coupled with the Sonic/DMC match, whether it's enough to give its fanboys the upper hand in the arguing stakes. Now if I could only find a shop that's selling Melee I can go and do something useful with my Gamecube...

Bracket says: Super Smash Bros
Favourites bracket says: Super Smash Bros
Vote says: Super Smash Bros
Prediction: Super Smash Bros with 78.47%

Fun fact for the day: jonthomson always knew Magus was overrated. He was just annoyed that he was found out one match too early for the sake of his bracket.
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Jon Thomson - CATS, Jay Solano, Ridley, Scorpion, Alien Hominid, Duke Nukem, The Prince, Johnny Rocketfingers, two TBA
FlamboyantSpy | Posted 7/12/2006 12:54:36 PM | message detail
Man... I can't believe some people would sink so low as to vote with their banned accounts. That's just sick.

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Explicit Content
Cheer Up Emo Kids
LeonhartForever | Posted 7/12/2006 12:55:14 PM | message detail
How can you "always" know and then "find out?"
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden
jonthomson | Posted 7/12/2006 1:25:54 PM | message detail
How can you "always" know and then "find out?"

*I* always knew. *Magus* was found out to be overrated.
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Jon Thomson - CATS, Jay Solano, Ridley, Scorpion, Alien Hominid, Duke Nukem, The Prince, Johnny Rocketfingers, two TBA
Phediuk | Posted 7/12/2006 5:55:42 PM | message detail
Hey HM, got any sales figures for the Dragon Quest series? I'd like to see if SE's marketing blitz for DQVIII had any significant effect on its sales.
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.
MarioSuperstar | Posted 7/12/2006 6:01:01 PM | message detail
I think he means that he knew his real strength but didn't find it overrated.
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* Is Dranze *
XxSoulxX | Posted 7/12/2006 6:01:31 PM | message detail
Knuckles > Devil May Cry

TRUTH'D!
--- -
"ertyu is actually a language. For example, 'dum' is ertyunese for 'godly'." - Topaz Kitsune
Not changing signature until HHH pedigrees Candice through a table. 07/07/06
longbladeofhiko | Posted 7/12/2006 6:28:48 PM | message detail
The SSB/DQ pic is pimp.
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WWEGSB Hardcore Legend Masa
JUST LIKE UR MOM LOLO AND URS TO LALA-Tombolo
steve illumina | Posted 7/12/2006 6:32:24 PM | message detail
All I can say is...I am so lookin forward to my next 4 matches worth of commentary...to be written tomorrow as Dragon Quest, a series I grew up loving...jobs to another duet...SSBM. More like a one game wonder really...cause who talks about the SSB on N64? Nobody. Hell ask 8 out of 0 Cube owners and they wont even know there was an SSB on the N64.

Dragon Quest deserves better. It could beat Elder Scrolls, Star Ocean, Harvest Moon, and Shadow Hearts with ease.
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Steve Illumina: 'Sage of Board 8', Adored by Elites, Hated by Fanbabies, Loved by Girly Gamers! Score: 11-0!
CompmanJX3 | Posted 7/12/2006 6:34:13 PM | message detail
DQ is getting trampled and the match hasn't even started yet!
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Support Captain Falcon!
Phediuk | Posted 7/12/2006 6:38:54 PM | message detail
*COMPARISONS GAME- (2) Super Smash Bros. vs. (7) Dragon Quest*

Sales

Going by US sales, SSB beats the **** out of DQ. If we include Japan, though (which I don't), DQ is easily the victor.

Advantage: Super Smash Bros.

Hype

Super Smash Bros.:

Super Smash Bros. ****ing Brawl. Online play. Solid Snake. Wii. Probably the most hyped game on any system at the present time. Yes, even moreso than Twilight Princess.

Dragon Quest:

I'd like to give a warm welcome to all of those North American Dragon Quest fans. Both of you.

Advantage: Super Smash Bros.

Number of Games

Super Smash Bros.:

Main series-

Super Smash Bros. (N64, 1999)
Super Smash Bros. Melee (GC, 2001)

Spinoffs/ports-

None

Total- 2
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Dragon Quest:

Main series-

Dragon Warrior (NES, 1989)
Dragon Warrior II (NES, 1990)
Dragon Warrior III (NES, 1991)
Dragon Warrior IV (NES, 1992)
Dragon Quest V (SNES, 1992)
Dragon Quest VI (SNES, 1995)
Dragon Warrior VII (PSX, 2001)
Dragon Quest VIII (PS2, 2005)

Spinoffs/ports-

Dragon Quest (MSX, 1986)
Dragon Quest II (MSX, 1987)
Dragon Quest I&II (SNES, 1993)
Torneko no Daibouken: Fushigi no Dungeon (SNES, 1993)
Dragon Quest III (SNES, 1994)
Dragon Warrior I&II (GBC, 1999)
Dragon Warrior Monsters (GBC, 1999)
Torneko: The Last Hope (PSX, 2000)
Dragon Warrior III (GBC, 2001)
Dragon Quest IV (PSX, 2001)
Dragon Warrior Monsters 2: Cobi's Journey (GBC, 2001)
Dragon Warrior Monsters 2: Tara's Adventure (GBC, 2001)
Torneko Adventures 3: Mysterious Dungeon (PS2, 2002)
Dragon Quest Monsters 1&2 (PSX, 2002)
Slime Morimori Dragon Quest: Shougeki no Shippo Dan (GBA, 2003)
Dragon Quest Monsters: Caravan Heart (GBA, 2003)
Dragon Quest V (PS2, 2004)
Slime Morimori Dragon Quest 2 (DS, 2005)
Dragon Quest Yangus (PS2, 2006)

Total- 27

Advantage: Dragon Quest

GameFAQs Status

Number of FAQs:

Super Smash Bros.:

Super Smash Bros.- 52
Super Smash Bros. Melee- 92
Total- 144

Dragon Quest:

Dragon Warrior- 18
Dragon Warrior II- 8
Dragon Warrior III- 8
Dragon Warrior IV- 15
Dragon Quest V- 9
Dragon Quest VI- 11
Dragon Warrior VII- 16
Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King- 22
Total- 107

Advantage: Super Smash Bros.
Phediuk | Posted 7/12/2006 6:39:12 PM | message detail
Average review score/Number of reviews:

Super Smash Bros.:

Super Smash Bros.- 9.04 (46)
Super Smash Bros. Melee- 9.56 (81)
Series average- 9.30 (127)

Dragon Quest:

Dragon Warrior- 7.05 (41)
Dragon Warrior II- 7.45 (20)
Dragon Warrior III- 9.17 (24)
Dragon Warrior IV- 9.38 (21)
Dragon Quest V- 8.78 (18)
Dragon Quest VI- 9.25 (20)
Dragon Warrior VII- 7.95 (40)
Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King- 8.12 (50)
Series average- 8.39 (234)

Advantage: Super Smash Bros./Dragon Quest

Board activity:

Aside from DQVIII, there's not much going on at the DQ boards. At all. SSBM, however, has over 10 pages just by itself.

Advantage: Super Smash Bros.

Board Odds Project

Match prediction:

Super Smash Bros.- 133
Dragon Quest- 0

BOOM HEADSHOT.

Advantage: Super Smash Bros.

Point value:

Super Smash Bros.- 447
Dragon Quest- 0

DIZZAM THATS TUFF DAWG

Advantage: Super Smash Bros.

Previous contest representation

Super Smash Bros.:

(I am NOT counting all of the Nintendo characters who just so happen to be in SSBM as part of this. Nonetheless, it's had much more contest explosure than any other series.)

Sp2004-

Super Smash Bros. Melee (7th)

Sp2005-

Master Hand (26th)

Top 100-

Super Smash Bros. Melee (#6)

Dragon Quest:

Top 100-

Dragon Warrior (#77)

Advantage: Super Smash Bros.

Intangibles

Okay, let's see everything going in favor of DQ: it's an RPG, it's technically a Square game, and...err...

Super Smash Bros.: Nintendo, Nintendo, Nintendo, NIN****INGTENDO ALL OVER THE PLACE. The #6 on the Top 100 doesn't hurt either.

Advantage: Super Smash Bros.

Conclusion

Make no mistake: Super Smash Bros. is more popular than Halo on this site, and DQ isn't nearly as revered as Castlevania. In the US, anyway. And SSB is pretty much the embodiment of Nintendo; Halo could not claim this. SSB should have no trouble putting away DQ; 77% for Nintendo's other Super Bros.
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.
rpgapzx | Posted 7/12/2006 6:47:24 PM | message detail
SSB picture is GREAT! Seeing that in the 2nd round would give me a lot of confidence for its matchup against Sonic...

Questions is... what is CJC gunna do if it becomes SSB vs. SMB? He could put Mario's character in the middle or something.

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SC2k6: 9/10
Today: Bracket: Sonic Vote: Sonic
Mac Arrowny | Posted 7/12/2006 7:31:05 PM | message detail
Hey HM, got any sales figures for the Dragon Quest series? I'd like to see if SE's marketing blitz for DQVIII had any significant effect on its sales.

I just posted these in the other topic. Like, two hours before you posted. >_<

Anyway: http://www.vgcharts.org/worldtotals.php?name=dragon+quest&console=&publisher=&sort=Total

As I said earlier, DQ's American sales are even worse than Mega Man's. Absolutely pathetic. The only real surprise is DQ8's bizarrely awesome performance in Europe, which is, I believe, above any non-FF RPG.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.
Mac Arrowny | Posted 7/12/2006 7:34:01 PM | message detail
Oh, also: http://www.vgcharts.org/worldtotals.php?name=smash&console=&publisher=&sort=Total

SSB was hardly unimpressive. It was one of the biggest games on the N64, and (also bizarrely) it outsold the original in Europe. Hell, it was ahead of SSBM in America until last year. I think that people around here really underestimate the power of the original game. It's probably at least as strong as SotN on its own.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.
LeonhartForever | Posted 7/12/2006 7:36:05 PM | message detail
It was one of the biggest games on the N64, and (also bizarrely) it outsold the original in Europe.

Super Smash Brothers outsold Super Smash Brothers? That is bizarre.

And I don't necessarily think we're underestimating the strength of Super Smash Brothers. I just don't think people are expecting it to get many votes on its own merit (as it, people who would vote for it and not SSBM).
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden
Kratos_42 | Posted 7/12/2006 7:36:49 PM | message detail
I'm back guys! *jazzhands*
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He wields the blade of a fallen hero, but now he is the hero, and it is the others who fall. He is rising. CERtified user.
creativename | Posted 7/12/2006 7:39:17 PM | message detail
More like a one game wonder really...cause who talks about the SSB on N64? Nobody. Hell ask 8 out of 0 Cube owners and they wont even know there was an SSB on the N64.

This is absurd, since SSB was a massive hit on the N64.
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www.gamefaqscontests.com
www.gamefaqscontests.com/gallery
SonicRaptor | Posted 7/12/2006 7:40:29 PM | message detail
SSB was a massive hit on the N64 and sold very well. It's not like it only became popular when SSBM came along, it was already well established.

Now I want SSBB...oh God do I want it.
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Current Contest Score: 10/10 Next Winner: Sonic the Hedgehog
I'll just put something to fill another line here.
creativename | Posted 7/12/2006 7:42:03 PM | message detail
SSB was hardly unimpressive. It was one of the biggest games on the N64, and (also bizarrely) it outsold the original in Europe. Hell, it was ahead of SSBM in America until last year. I think that people around here really underestimate the power of the original game. It's probably at least as strong as SotN on its own.

Didn't see this before I posted, but yes. SSB was a huge hit, I cannot see how anyone can underestimate it. Strangely enough though I've heard these wild underestimations before.
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www.gamefaqscontests.com
www.gamefaqscontests.com/gallery
dragoontheguy | Posted 7/12/2006 7:44:20 PM | message detail
My internet was down the last few days, so I just saw the results from what I missed. Yeah... I really don't think there's going to be a perfect bracket this contest. I wish I was here for warcraft vs. gta... looks like I missed quite the match (and probably quite a lot of hilarious whining on the board too).
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When dictatorship is a fact, revolution becomes a right. ~ Victor Hugo
{WoT}~> Board 408
Ed Bellis | Posted 7/12/2006 7:45:58 PM | message detail
Probably the most hyped game on any system at the present time. Yes, even moreso than Twilight Princess.

I normally love these things and I think they're well-written and all, but... hrm.
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This was Ed Bellis. Summer 2005 Fanfiction Project:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=28403845
Karma Hunter | Posted 7/12/2006 7:46:57 PM | message detail
Yeah! Twilight Princess and SSBB pale in comparison to the hype of MGS4!!! Gogogo Old Snake!
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Commit it to memory.
Ed Bellis | Posted 7/12/2006 7:48:44 PM | message detail
I was talking about Diddy Kong Racing DS, thank you very much.
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This was Ed Bellis. Summer 2005 Fanfiction Project:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=28403845
LeonhartForever | Posted 7/12/2006 7:50:12 PM | message detail
And here I was thinking you guys were talking about Xenosaga Episode III.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden
Mac Arrowny | Posted 7/12/2006 7:51:41 PM | message detail
Super Smash Brothers outsold Super Smash Brothers? That is bizarre.

Dammit, I meant that it outsold the sequel. >_<

Considering how long it took for SSBM to get ahead of SSB in America, I would think that there are a lot of people who only have one of them.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.
Draco1214 | Posted 7/12/2006 7:54:00 PM | message detail
SSB was hardly unimpressive. It was one of the biggest games on the N64, and (also bizarrely) it outsold the original in Europe. Hell, it was ahead of SSBM in America until last year. I think that people around here really underestimate the power of the original game. It's probably at least as strong as SotN on its own.

I think there's probably a huge fanbase overlap between SSB and SSBM. So I don't think the strength of the original game will matter.
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Organization XIII - Number III - Xordac
Currently Playing - Suikoden V, Capcom vs. SNK 2
transience | Posted 7/12/2006 7:54:36 PM | message detail
you should be talking about XS3!

okay, so only I care about it. but hey, I've got gaming indie cred or something.
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xyzzy
I lost a sig bet to War13104. Yes, the same guy who had Kefka over Crono. FOR THE HORDE!
LeonhartForever | Posted 7/12/2006 7:55:16 PM | message detail
I still need to get around beating Episode I soon.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden
Karma Hunter | Posted 7/12/2006 7:55:31 PM | message detail
Dammit tranny, if you have indie cred it's harder for me to mock you, what with my obnoxious love of mainstream MGS.
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Commit it to memory.
Karma Hunter | Posted 7/12/2006 7:57:38 PM | message detail
Wait, back up, they're making a DKR DS? As in, sequel to the best non F-Zero racing game ever? Why didn't anyone tell me? =O
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Commit it to memory.
transience | Posted 7/12/2006 7:58:02 PM | message detail
well you've got Heroic Mario on your side, so you can kind of hang out under the radar. until next week when he abandons ship, anyway.

my next game: trying to get into Suikoden 2 for the fourth time! quick, someone force me to play a Nintendo game or something!
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xyzzy
I lost a sig bet to War13104. Yes, the same guy who had Kefka over Crono. FOR THE HORDE!
Ed Bellis | Posted 7/12/2006 7:58:42 PM | message detail
Because you haven't had a working computer for like sixteen months?

>_>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diddy_Kong_Racing_DS
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This was Ed Bellis. Summer 2005 Fanfiction Project:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=28403845
LeonhartForever | Posted 7/12/2006 7:59:03 PM | message detail
Bah, Heroic Mario steals MY tastes and gets all the credit for them! He wouldn't have become a MGS fanboy if I hadn't done it first!
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden
transience | Posted 7/12/2006 7:59:57 PM | message detail
he steals everyone's tastes - except mine, because I don't actually like anything!
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xyzzy
I lost a sig bet to War13104. Yes, the same guy who had Kefka over Crono. FOR THE HORDE!
LeonhartForever | Posted 7/12/2006 8:00:56 PM | message detail
No, he steals MY taste. Nobody else's. He stole my Skies of Arcadia fanboyism, my Squall fanboyism, my Tidus fanboyism, and now my Metal Gear Solid fanboyism! This has gone too far!
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden
Karma Hunter | Posted 7/12/2006 8:02:25 PM | message detail
he steals everyone's tastes - except mine, because I don't actually like anything!

I agree that Shadow Hearts doesn't actually exist!

my next game: trying to get into Suikoden 2 for the fourth time! quick, someone force me to play a Nintendo game or something!

I suggest you play -- oh, what a SURPRISE! -- Metal Gear Solid!!
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Commit it to memory.
Karma Hunter | Posted 7/12/2006 8:03:10 PM | message detail
Oh, and I forgot Metroid...oh well, no one actually likes Metroid. They all do it for the indie cred.
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Commit it to memory.
transience | Posted 7/12/2006 8:09:26 PM | message detail
actually, I searched for MGS but saw it was 2cds. I almost bought MGS2 because it was 3.99 but figured that you had to play 1 first to get the full experience.
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xyzzy
I lost a sig bet to War13104. Yes, the same guy who had Kefka over Crono. FOR THE HORDE!
transience | Posted 7/12/2006 8:09:43 PM | message detail
and if you all played Shadow Hearts, you'd know what was up!
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xyzzy
I lost a sig bet to War13104. Yes, the same guy who had Kefka over Crono. FOR THE HORDE!
LeonhartForever | Posted 7/12/2006 8:10:14 PM | message detail
MGS isn't really that long of a game.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden
transience | Posted 7/12/2006 8:11:41 PM | message detail
I meant in terms of time spent downloading, not playtime.
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xyzzy
I lost a sig bet to War13104. Yes, the same guy who had Kefka over Crono. FOR THE HORDE!
Karma Hunter | Posted 7/12/2006 8:11:41 PM | message detail
Yeah, MGS games can be speed-run pretty damn quickly...kinda like Metroid games, only with cutscenes. I'm not exactly sure why MGS had to be two-discs in the first place...doesn't seem warranted.
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Commit it to memory.