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Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 293

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Slowflake | Posted 6/17/2006 3:09:55 PM | message detail
At some point, you are going to have to pick an upset.

I had a completely cookie-cutter bracket last spring. If I started playing roulette to know which upset I'd be picking, that'd be bad. Had I randomly chosen Ghaleon to beat Vergil, but kept Kuja to beat MH, then I'd have lost twice the points.
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SquallidSnake | Posted 6/17/2006 3:11:42 PM | message detail
Honestly, taking the high seed to win every match in the bracket isn't a bad bracket...
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Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die.
Knowing your enemy is the quickest path to victory.
Applause Sign | Posted 6/17/2006 3:12:26 PM | message detail
Last Spring I missed Sigma > Andross (actually thought Andross would win, lol me) and then I took Wesker > Kefka as an upset pick I didn't fully believe in. And it ended up costing me potentially 1st place.

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Slowflake | Posted 6/17/2006 3:12:31 PM | message detail
Technically, you'd still have upsets, though. y halo thar 'Vania and Elder Scrolls.
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Tequilla Gundam | Posted 6/17/2006 3:12:34 PM | message detail
I had a completely cookie-cutter bracket last spring. If I started playing roulette to know which upset I'd be picking, that'd be bad. Had I randomly chosen Ghaleon to beat Vergil, but kept Kuja to beat MH, then I'd have lost twice the points.

I'm only talking about winning, slow. The only places in this contest that matter are 1st-5th. Either way, you would have won no prize. If 100 points doesn't get you a prize, there is no difference in 1 or 100 points.
Applause Sign | Posted 6/17/2006 3:13:50 PM | message detail

I'm only talking about winning, slow. The only places in this contest that matter are 1st-5th. Either way, you would have won no prize. If 100 points doesn't get you a prize, there is no difference in 1 or 100 points.


Actually only missing MH > Kuja would cost him 1 point. You know, what 1st place had. -1 point.

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Adept of Aiur | Posted 6/17/2006 3:13:53 PM | message detail
Well, personally, I never take upsets I'm not 100% confident in.
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"An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows."
Slowflake | Posted 6/17/2006 3:14:11 PM | message detail
I'd have a better chance to win the lottery than to actually land a top 10 place. Hence, I'm going for the best bracket I can do. I'm from Canada anyway, and I'm barred from winning prizes.
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Applause Sign | Posted 6/17/2006 3:14:45 PM | message detail
Well, personally, I never take upsets I'm not 100% confident in.

Wait... you mean you were actually serious about Kerrigan?

*watches bomb drop on stats topic*

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Tequilla Gundam | Posted 6/17/2006 3:15:36 PM | message detail
I'd have a better chance to win the lottery than to actually land a top 10 place. Hence, I'm going for the best bracket I can do. I'm from Canada anyway, and I'm barred from winning prizes.

I understand.
Adept of Aiur | Posted 6/17/2006 3:15:52 PM | message detail

Wait... you mean you were actually serious about Kerrigan?

*watches bomb drop on stats topic*


>>

Actually, yeah, I was. I wasn't really confident with, say, Ocelot>Bowser, Ryu>Sonic, or M. Bison>Diablo though.
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"An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows."
Slowflake | Posted 6/17/2006 3:16:14 PM | message detail
When I pick upsets, I only pick ones I can make a better case for than with the favorite. I couldn't make a good point for either Ghaleon or MH, hence me going with their respective opponents.
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Got a craving while you're watching training holos on your rest cycle? Try new PHAZONETS - a mouthful of mutation in every morsel!
Applause Sign | Posted 6/17/2006 3:16:35 PM | message detail
To be honest with you, if a stats guy or a Board 8er that didn't live in America did better than me in the contest, but couldn't get prizes due to their location, and I ended up winning more than 50 bucks, I'd buy them a game. That is, a stats guy or Board 8er I don't hate.

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Applause Sign | Posted 6/17/2006 3:17:32 PM | message detail
Actually, yeah, I was. I wasn't really confident with, say, Ocelot>Bowser, Ryu>Sonic, or M. Bison>Diablo though.

Yeah, I was just joking anyway.

And my best case for MH was lol kuja. Turns out I was right.

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Phediuk | Posted 6/17/2006 3:26:49 PM | message detail
Well, I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you, HM. I don't want this turning into another Ridley/Diablo fiasco.

Anyway, I've decided to look at each entry in the contest and measure its hype level at the present time. That is, how much of a buzz there is surrounding the particular franchise at this point in time.

"Last release" counts only the last new release of a main series game. Spinoffs and ports don't count. Ditto for upcoming releases.

The Legend of Zelda

Last release: The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap (2005)

Upcoming releases: Duh.

Twilight effing Princess. I need not say more. Besides, Zelda is the type of series that always has some buzz around it, regardless of whether a new game is coming or not.

Hype level: Very high

Civilization

Last release: Civilization IV (2005)

Upcoming releases: None announced

Civilization IV received excellent reviews, but unfortunately, Civ has always been a rather niche series--I sure wasn't hearing much about Civ IV on GameFAQs.

Hype level: Low

Suikoden

Last release: Suikoden V (2006)

Upcoming releases: None announced

Suikoden V pretty much came and went, with extremely poor sales (last I heard, about 35,000 in NA) and good-but-not-great reviews, still only appealing to its tiny hardcore following. The old rule rings true: whenever a really disappointing game is released, it's always the next game in the series that's affected. Case in point: Suikoden IV.

Hype level: Low

Mega Man X

Last release: Mega Man X8 (2004)

Upcoming releases: None announced (as far as I know)

Here's a little secret for you: no one gives two ****s about the MMX series aside from the 10 people who brainlessly buy every game for the sake of completion. The games sell like crap, they get mediocre reviews, and they're all exactly the freaking same. It'll still beat Suikoden easily based on name recognition alone, though.

Hype level: Very low

Pokemon

Last release: Pokemon Emerald (2005)

Upcoming releases: Pokemon Diamond/Pearl

Sure, it may be hated among the GameFAQs populace, the sales figures don't lie: Pokemon is still a gigantic seller for Nintendo. 12 million copies sold between Ruby and Sapphire, IIRC, making RS the best-selling GBA game by far.

Hype level: Medium

Star Ocean:

Last release: Star Ocean: Till the End of Time (2004)

Upcoming releases: None announced (as far as I know)

Just another second-tier RPG series.

Hype level: Low

Metroid

Last release: Metroid Prime Hunters (or, if that's considered a spinoff, Metroid Prime 2)

Upcoming releases: Metroid Prime 3: Corruption

Metroid has only grown in popularity since Metroid Prime was released back in 2002. It is increasingly becoming one of Nintendo's premier series, and while it certainly isn't on the level of Zelda or Mario, make no mistake--MP3 (lol) will be big.

Hype level: High

Kirby

Last release: Kirby: Canvas Curse

Upcoming releases: Kirby DS, Kirby (Wii)

Kirby represents Metroid pre-Prime. The difference is that Kirby has slowly dwindled since 1992 while Metroid has slowly strengthened. Either way, a niche platforming series at best.

Hype level: Low

More in the next post.
Applause Sign | Posted 6/17/2006 3:28:02 PM | message detail
Well, I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you, HM. I don't want this turning into another Ridley/Diablo fiasco.

I think you just can't handle his 3 posts of might!

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Team Rocket Elite | Posted 6/17/2006 3:30:03 PM | message detail
You pick upsets because you are confident that they are going to win. Deviating from the norm just comes with the upset pick. If you don't have any upset pick, you've already lost.

What if you're confident than none of them will occur? The cookie cutter bracket isn't an instant loss. If you went with a straight up BOP bracket in the Summer 2004 contest you would have scored 187 and tied for 45th place. The 10th place prize winner scored 188, only a single point higher. Shadow outranked Tidus by a single bracket(60-59) in the Summer 2004 BOP. If one person swapped from Shadow to Tidus or if Shadow has pulled it off against Tidus, a BOP bracket would have won you a prize.
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Tequilla Gundam | Posted 6/17/2006 3:30:20 PM | message detail
Switch Metroid and Pokemon hype levels and you're good.
Applause Sign | Posted 6/17/2006 3:30:55 PM | message detail
Supercomputer ftw.

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Tequilla Gundam | Posted 6/17/2006 3:32:15 PM | message detail

What if you're confident than none of them will occur? The cookie cutter bracket isn't an instant loss. If you went with a straight up BOP bracket in the Summer 2004 contest you would have scored 187 and tied for 45th place. The 10th place prize winner scored 188, only a single point higher. Shadow outranked Tidus by a single bracket(60-59) in the Summer 2004 BOP. If one person swapped from Shadow to Tidus or if Shadow has pulled it off against Tidus, a BOP bracket would have won you a prize.


As it stands, no BOP bracket has won a prize. Until that is proven wrong, you really have no argument.
Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 6/17/2006 3:32:27 PM | message detail
Switch Metroid and Pokemon hype levels and you're good.

He has them right as it is.

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"If you're asking for a date, forget it. Because I made it a point not to go out with women who shoot me in the head."
Tequilla Gundam | Posted 6/17/2006 3:35:30 PM | message detail
Atleast bring Metroid down to medium.

MP3 isn't being hyped enough to put it at high.
Applause Sign | Posted 6/17/2006 3:35:48 PM | message detail

As it stands, no BOP bracket has won a prize. Until that is proven wrong, you really have no argument.


Actually he does, your bracket would have been considered cookie-cutter whether or not you took Tidus or Shadow.

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SquallidSnake | Posted 6/17/2006 3:36:51 PM | message detail
Shadow shouldn't have been the favorite anyway. I argued that match until I was blue in the face. You'd think that at least ONE person would have listened to me...
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Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die.
Knowing your enemy is the quickest path to victory.
Applause Sign | Posted 6/17/2006 3:37:46 PM | message detail
I didn't really come into the stats topic until post SC2K4. YOU COULD HAVE CONVINCED ME.

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Master Moltar | Posted 6/17/2006 3:39:54 PM | message detail
Shadow > Tidus was one of the few picks I made because of preference. I figured Tidus would win, but I told myself Shadow would pull through.

It was also my second bracket, so it was a bit naive of me, but I don't do stuff like that anymore. >.>
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Moltar Status: Eagerly awaiting for the next Contest to begin.
Team Rocket Elite | Posted 6/17/2006 3:39:55 PM | message detail
As it stands, no BOP bracket has won a prize. Until that is proven wrong, you really have no argument.

Let me get this straight. A BOP bracket has gotten within ONE point of prizes but you still think it's impossible for a BOP bracket to win. Also comparing the BOP bracket against every other possibility combined is not even close to a fair comparason. The fact that the winning bracket is more likely to not be the BOP bracket than the BOP bracket says nothing about any individual bracket versus the BOP bracket.
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"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."
Tequilla Gundam | Posted 6/17/2006 3:49:49 PM | message detail

Let me get this straight. A BOP bracket has gotten within ONE point of prizes but you still think it's impossible for a BOP bracket to win. Also comparing the BOP bracket against every other possibility combined is not even close to a fair comparason. The fact that the winning bracket is more likely to not be the BOP bracket than the BOP bracket says nothing about any individual bracket versus the BOP bracket.


Close only matters in horseshoes and handgrenades, TRE.

Yes, I'm comparing the BOP to every other possibility because the BOP is the ultimate cookie cutter. The point I'm trying to make is that a complete cookei cutter will never win you anything. You don't win by being one point off, period.

I'll sig bet, account bet, etc. that a BOP bracket will never win a prize in this contest. It's basic bracketology.
Phediuk | Posted 6/17/2006 3:49:55 PM | message detail
Metal Gear

Last release: Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence (2006)

Upcoming releases: Metal Gear Solid 4

Metal Gear, like Zelda, is a series that is pretty much always in the limelight. And did you see that MGS4 trailer? Holy ****ing crap.

Hype level: High

Soul Calibur

Last release: Soul Calibur III (2005)

Upcoming releases: None announced

Whoa. I had temporarily forgotten about SCIII; I had first typed there "Soul Calibur II (2003)". It was kind of surprising that SCIII didn't receive more attention; being PS2-exclusive, with nothing big like Link being in the game to draw in new players, likely hurt it a fair bit. Is anyone still talking about this series?

Hype level: Low

Fire Emblem

Last release: Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (2005)

Upcoming releases: Fire Emblem (Wii)

Welcome to the next up-and-coming RPG series. While I don't think FE will ever have spectacular sales or mainstream attention, it has still received much attention from the RPG community since Nintendo started bringing them Stateside. Let's not use that match against FFTA as proof of anything anymore; FE had only been out a few months at that time, and the series' popularity has grown considerably since then.

Hype level: Medium

Silent Hill

Last release: Silent Hill 4: The Room (2004)

Upcoming releases: None that I know of

No new releases for almost 2 years plus cult series to begin with=the survival-horror version of Mega Man X.

Hype level: Very low

Castlevania

Last release: Castlevania: Curse of Darkness (2005)

Upcoming releases: Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin

Castlevania has never been a hugely popular series. Sure, it did fairly well back in the day, but it hasn't seen a big hit since Super Castlevania IV back in 1991. Critical reception is still great for the handheld games, though. Another notch on the "niche old-school series" belt.

Hype level: Low

Halo

Last release: Halo 2 (2004)

Upcoming releases: Halo 3

Halo, like Metal Gear and Zelda, is a series that's always being talked about. I'm quite confident Phil Harrison could've walked onstage at E3, said "Halo 3", walked off, and got a standing ovation from the crowd. Halo 3 will be huge. Possibly the biggest game of 2007.

Hype level: High

Kingdom Hearts

Last release: Kingdom Hearts II (2006)

Upcoming releases: None announced

Kingdom Hearts II will have a huge influence on KH's strength in this contest--it is probably the biggest video game release (excluding Oblivion) since...oh...Resident Evil 4. People are still talking about KHII. A lot.

Hype level: Very high

Harvest Moon

Last release: I don't remember

Upcoming releases: I don't care

This is about as cult as it gets, people.

Hype level: Very low

More in next post.
Lopen | Posted 6/17/2006 3:54:31 PM | message detail
You know, a "purely cookie cutter" bracket is not necessarily not unique. How many people take 0 upsets? Not many at all.

And yeah, I think SF/RE really deserves more discussion. I'll say it again: SF is barely behind RE in that poll, and I think that the Mega Man voters are much more likely to vote for SF than RE. I'd say SF would win that poll pretty handily 1v1 against RE back then. Of course this is pre RE4, but is RE4 enough? I'm not so sure about that.
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Raiden is still [!!] nominations short!
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs9/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=27664244
Applause Sign | Posted 6/17/2006 3:56:23 PM | message detail
Now I remember why this entire topic turned on Tequilla Gundam last contest and shunned him until he left.

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Yesmar | Posted 6/17/2006 4:04:41 PM | message detail
For anyone thinking that the poll placement might not affect vote totals, look at the pitiful ones for today's poll. As of now the vote total is only 37,794.

It would have to add over 30,000 votes to it's score just to reach the numbers of the "Have you ever used Linux?" poll from this Wednesday, although who knows if that's the best poll to compare it to.


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"What's wrong with boot blacking? I like it very much."
Tequilla Gundam | Posted 6/17/2006 4:06:29 PM | message detail
Now I remember why this entire topic turned on Tequilla Gundam last contest and shunned him until he left.

Whaa?
SquallidSnake | Posted 6/17/2006 4:06:40 PM | message detail
Oh, the poll placement staying THAT low will definitely affect vote totals. I didn't even KNOW the poll was down there until I heard it on the board. I just figured some glitch with the banner was keeping it from showing up.
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Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die.
Knowing your enemy is the quickest path to victory.
Team Rocket Elite | Posted 6/17/2006 4:10:32 PM | message detail
Close only matters in horseshoes and handgrenades, TRE.

Or how you choose the people who determine what is cookie cutter. The Sum2k4 Guru Consensus bracket was identical to the BOP with one difference, Tidus over Shadow. The Guru cookie cutter would have won you a prize.

Yes, I'm comparing the BOP to every other possibility because the BOP is the ultimate cookie cutter. The point I'm trying to make is that a complete cookei cutter will never win you anything. You don't win by being one point off, period.

I got your point a couple posts ago. The point you are making is that you are biased againt the BOP and have no actual proof that a BOP bracket can't win. ANY one bracket is considered less likely to win than all other brackets combined. This is not a feature specific to the BOP.

I'll sig bet, account bet, etc. that a BOP bracket will never win a prize in this contest.

A meaningless statement. Even if a bracket was 10 times more likely to win than any other bracket, it's still unlikely to win. And I don't you care much about your account in the first place.
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"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."
Phediuk | Posted 6/17/2006 4:12:10 PM | message detail
Super Mario Bros

Last release: New Super Mario Bros. (2006)

Upcoming releases: Super Mario Galaxy

Super Mario Bros. is basically an immortal series. The gaming industry will never truly stop talking about it. The mostly enthusiastic reviews for NSMB certainly don't hurt, either.

Hype level: High

Madden NFL

Last release: Madden NFL 06 (2005)

Upcoming releases: Madden NFL 07

lol, Madden. While a perennial favorite among casuals (and often the highest-selling game of the year), its presence on GameFAQs is next to nil.

Hype level: Low

Grand Theft Auto

Last release: Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories (2006- PS2 version)

Upcoming releases: Grand Theft Auto IV

GTA is another one of those huge, Zelda-type series that is contantly receiving attention from gamers across all spectrums. While it may not be especially popular on Board 8, don't be fooled--GTA is a huge force on GameFAQs. I might remind you that San Andreas came in at #11 on last year's Top 100.

Hype level: High

Warcraft

Last release: WarCraft III: The Frozen Throne (WoW is a spinoff, technically)

Upcoming releases: None announced

WoW is basically what's carrying Warcraft here. After all, WarCraft III is no StarCraft. Not to say that one should underestimate the power of WoW--it remains an extremely popular game.

Hype level: Medium

Sonic

Last release: Err...Sonic Heroes? Has it been that long?

Upcoming releases: Sonic the Hedgehog (360, PS3)

The popularity of this series is slowly dwindling. At last. Shadow the Hedgehog was an even worse game than usual for the series. Nonetheless, there are still legions of fanboys out there who play these games.

Hype level: Medium

Devil May Cry

Last release: Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition (2006)

Upcoming releases: Devil May Cry 4

This series has had its metaphorical balls chopped off ever since DMC2 was released. DMC3's sales were lower than anticipated and few people were gushing praise for it.

Hype level: Low

Super Smash Bros

Last release: Super Smash Bros. Melee (2001)

Upcoming releases: Super Smash Bros. Brawl

5 years later, SSBM remains an enormously popular game. Not only that, but the SSBB hype train has been staggering since E3. Most anticipated Wii game of the moment? You betcha. Well, excluding Twilight Princess, but that almost feels like cheating. The hype's all 'cause of Snake, I say. >_>

Hype level: Very high

Dragon Quest

Last release: Dragon Quest VIII (2005)

Upcoming releases: None announced

Just another niche RPG series. DQVIII wasn't the smash hit Square-Enix was marketing it to be, perhaps signalling that this series will never be very popular in the States.

Hype level: Low

'Twil be finished off in the next post.
Big Bob | Posted 6/17/2006 4:16:40 PM | message detail
Sonic's last game was Sonic Riders, released this year.

Sonic Rush was the last REAL Sonic game, though.
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Tequilla Gundam | Posted 6/17/2006 4:17:08 PM | message detail
Or how you choose the people who determine what is cookie cutter. The Sum2k4 Guru Consensus bracket was identical to the BOP with one difference, Tidus over Shadow. The Guru cookie cutter would have won you a prize.

The BOP by definition is a cookie cutter bracket. It's the consensus of the board. The Guru bracket wouldn't be because *le gasp* not everyone is a guru.

I got your point a couple posts ago. The point you are making is that you are biased againt the BOP and have no actual proof that a BOP bracket can't win. ANY one bracket is considered less likely to win than all other brackets combined. This is not a feature specific to the BOP.

Fact: A BOP bracket hasn't won a prize.
Fiction: A BOP bracket has won a prize.

Ok? Ok.

A meaningless statement. Even if a bracket was 10 times more likely to win than any other bracket, it's still unlikely to win. And I don't you care much about your account in the first place.

It was an example. I wasn't serious. And I don't care much about your account ;)
Applause Sign | Posted 6/17/2006 4:19:56 PM | message detail
But *le gasp* everyone can be.

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SquallidSnake | Posted 6/17/2006 4:20:55 PM | message detail
The Guru bracket wouldn't be because *le gasp* not everyone is a guru.

This may surprise you, but...Not everyone participates in the BOP either.

*shock!*
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Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die.
Knowing your enemy is the quickest path to victory.
Applause Sign | Posted 6/17/2006 4:21:48 PM | message detail
Should we start the Tequilla Gundam is a tool chant now or later?

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Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 6/17/2006 4:22:11 PM | message detail
This series has had its metaphorical balls chopped off ever since DMC2 was released. DMC3's sales were lower than anticipated and few people were gushing praise for it.

Hype level: Low


I hope this whole bit was some sort of joke. DMC3 was met with insanely high praise from just about everyone. It was given very high scores everywhere. DMC3 sold well over a million copies worldwide, just as every other entry in the series has.

Now Capcom is saying that Devil May Cry 4 will incorporate the best from Devil May Cry so far and make it a bigger and better game than the entire series combined. The hype level for this thing is not 'low' by any means.

Yeah. I disagree completely with this whole part, except for DMC2 sucking because it did, but Capcom came back with Devil May Cry 3 to wash that all away.

DMC below Fire Emblem in hype is a no no, sir.

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"If you're asking for a date, forget it. Because I made it a point not to go out with women who shoot me in the head."
Tequilla Gundam | Posted 6/17/2006 4:22:29 PM | message detail
But *shock* more people participate in the BOP than in the Guru.
Lopen | Posted 6/17/2006 4:22:45 PM | message detail
Psh. Devil May Cry 3 rejuvenated the franchise! DMC4 now has people foaming at the mouth! Low my ass!

... what?
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Raiden is still [!!] nominations short!
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs9/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=27664244
red sox 777 | Posted 6/17/2006 4:23:13 PM | message detail
If the guru bracket only had a single difference from the BOP, and even that was only by one bracket, what exactly is the big difference between the two? And, if you are saying the gurus are an exclusive group, is Board 8 not an exclusive group? Most brackets are not made by members of this board, and the difference between the average BOP score and average guru score is much smaller than the difference between the average BOP score and the overall average. Going by your logic, to find a true "cookie-cutter" bracket, you would have to do a BOP, only with all the brackets submitted.
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SquallidSnake | Posted 6/17/2006 4:23:58 PM | message detail
But *shock* more people participate in the BOP than in the Guru.

This is an irrelevant point. Both contests are equally available to everyone.
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Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die.
Knowing your enemy is the quickest path to victory.
Tequilla Gundam | Posted 6/17/2006 4:24:28 PM | message detail
Should we start the Tequilla Gundam is a tool chant now or later?

Does trolling make you feel better, inside?

I like how everyone can respond to my posts with respect and valid arguments and one person can't help but quickly dismiss me?

I love this GameFOX feature called Blacklist ;)
Lopen | Posted 6/17/2006 4:24:32 PM | message detail
Hell yeah, HM. It's always good to have your rabidness on my side. A full post retort as opposed to my 1 sentence! *high fives*
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Raiden is still [!!] nominations short!
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs9/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=27664244
Team Rocket Elite | Posted 6/17/2006 4:25:20 PM | message detail
The BOP by definition is a cookie cutter bracket. It's the consensus of the board. The Guru bracket wouldn't be because *le gasp* not everyone is a guru.

Try again. Not everybody on the board submitted a bracket to the BOP either. Also unlike the current version, no one was rejected from entering a guru bracket in the Summer 2004 contest. Everyone who wanted to be a Guru could be a Guru just like how anybody who wanted to submit a bracket to the BOP could.

Fact: A BOP bracket hasn't won a prize.
Fiction: A BOP bracket has won a prize.

Ok? Ok.


As I said before, I got your point a couple posts ago.
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"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."
Tequilla Gundam | Posted 6/17/2006 4:26:27 PM | message detail

As I said before, I got your point a couple posts ago.


Ok, that's all I was trying to say.