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Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 293

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Applause Sign | Posted 6/17/2006 10:07:42 AM | message detail

Common sense and the powers of observation (and I just mean on GameFAQs generally, not some random people I know). When everyone else is saying so, you might want to consider it. Not that popular opinion = truth, but it's always worth a look when popular opinion on a popularity contest does not in any way coincide with your own opinion.

Because the majority of the stats topic has never been wrong before. *sigh* It's not as if I'm calling for a bunch of crazy off the wall picks. In fact I think my only upsets according the BOP is SO > Pokemon, TES > SF, and Halo > KH. The latter because of this boards need to beat off to anything KH, and hatred of the evil Halo.

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Explicit Content
Cheer Up Emo Kids

smitelf | Posted 6/17/2006 10:08:13 AM | message detail

Besides, how do you know for sure that it would be so hard to reach elder scrolls fans?

I can't know for sure. How the hell can I know for sure? I can only know logically. If you can't see for yourself how a mod community is not equivalent in online infrastructure to an online game like Starcraft, I don't know how to convince you.
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Official Queen ***** of the Universe!

MnMZero | Posted 6/17/2006 10:09:36 AM | message detail

I'm gonna go with the PS2 game that sold over a million copies, unless that counts as mediocre sales, you know that trumps Xenogears sales.

I'm getting kind of tired of people bringing up sales for Xenogears arguments. I say again, it wasn't produced in bulk when it was released. It became a commodity on the used market. You couldn't find it anywhere used because it was constantly being bought up at every used retailer. The demand became so great that Square re-released it about 4 years later as a Greatest Hit. Xenogears official sales numbers are misleading, and its popularity transcends those numbers. You simply can't compare it to Star Ocean based on sales numbers.
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*Is therealmnm*
Proud Supporter of Zero in SC2k5

Applause Sign | Posted 6/17/2006 10:10:24 AM | message detail

I think there was plenty of SFF in MGS/FF just because I refuse to believe that MGS2 is more popular on this site than MGS. And that not only is MGS more popular, but by a noticable, not huge mind you, margin. That's why I actually contemplated Halo > MG, but I've decided not to.

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Explicit Content
Cheer Up Emo Kids

BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 6/17/2006 10:11:22 AM | message detail

I think the Snake/Sora match can be largely attributed to the mature, badassness of Snake vs the kiddy clown shoes of Sora. That and the match pic may have had some impact.

TuRtLe
~~~
Like Darth Maul, the bastard child of Michael Flatley and Hellboy. -trancer1

Applause Sign | Posted 6/17/2006 10:13:20 AM | message detail

I think the Snake/Sora match can be largely attributed to the mature, badassness of Snake vs the kiddy clown shoes of Sora.

Which would mean that Sora would be notoriously weak. I'm pretty sure Alucard is more badass than Sora, yet Sora still beat him down with a shovel. The pic I'll give you, simply because if you're not really a fan of either, and don't hate either, and have ever played a MG game, I think you're going to vote for Snake out of sheer hilarity.

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Explicit Content
Cheer Up Emo Kids

Slowflake | Posted 6/17/2006 10:14:20 AM | message detail

Although I had heard of Morrowind and Oblivion before, I'd never heard of the "Elder Scrolls" name until just recently. Take that as you will.

Now, for something completely different. I'm adressing this in the stats topic, even though it has nothing to do with stats, because there's a buttload of smart people here. Would it be possible to make a script that plays music representing the leader of the poll on the poll result page? Like, play music X if the top option leads, and music Y if the bottom option leads?
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Got a craving while you're watching training holos on your rest cycle? Try new PHAZONETS - a mouthful of mutation in every morsel!

smitelf | Posted 6/17/2006 10:15:16 AM | message detail

Because the majority of the stats topic has never been wrong before. *sigh* It's not as if I'm calling for a bunch of crazy off the wall picks. In fact I think my only upsets according the BOP is SO > Pokemon, TES > SF, and Halo > KH. The latter because of this boards need to beat off to anything KH, and hatred of the evil Halo.

And hey, I think you're reasonable on two of those, though I would consider Oblivion beating Street Fighter an upset. Heck, anything can happen. I just think that if you're going for the money (I'm not), you're banking on a 30-1 horse in Star Ocean v. Pokemon. But a 70-1 horse won the Belmont Stakes once and won my dad $10,000 for picking it on a lark, so you never know.
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Official Queen ***** of the Universe!

Slowflake | Posted 6/17/2006 10:19:26 AM | message detail

Oh, and since we were on the subject of the poll placement earlier, it'll really only affect the 40% of the site who are still too lazy to get a better browser. The poll is at the right place on Firefox, and I'd assume it's the same for other minor browsers as well.
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Got a craving while you're watching training holos on your rest cycle? Try new PHAZONETS - a mouthful of mutation in every morsel!

smitelf | Posted 6/17/2006 10:22:24 AM | message detail

Nothing is impossible, Slowflake. Some things just take such a ridiculous amount of effort that they aren't worth it. I don't know if this is one of them or not since I am totally clueless with scripts.
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Official Queen ***** of the Universe!

BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 6/17/2006 10:29:32 AM | message detail

My theory is that Sora looks good on paper, until he goes up against someone really strong.

TuRtLe
~~~
Like Darth Maul, the bastard child of Michael Flatley and Hellboy. -trancer1

Slowflake | Posted 6/17/2006 10:33:42 AM | message detail

Same here. I don't know if it's just a "if Zelda votes > Civ votes, then play Zelda music" kinda deal, or if it's something damn near impossible. I figure it'd be easier if it was something that worked with Greasemonkey, but then again I know nothing about that kind of stuff.
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Got a craving while you're watching training holos on your rest cycle? Try new PHAZONETS - a mouthful of mutation in every morsel!

Ngamer64 | Posted 6/17/2006 10:35:17 AM | message detail

Gurus, please help by pasting the listing into new topics when they come up.

Your Contest Gurus

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Team Rocket Elite
3 - Ngamer64
4 - yoblazer33
5 - transience
6 - Heroic Mario
7 - Viviff
8 - silverkiller
9 - Undeniable
10 - Kaxon
11 - Applekidjosh
12 - HaRRicH
13 - Lopen
14 - Z1mZum
15 - Chinballz
16 - A World's Envy
17 - Zylothewolf
18 - greatone
19 - cavedog0
20 - DomaDragoon
21 - Big Bob
22 - Ed Bellis
23 - expaniol
24 - Buzzup
25 - Radix
26 - RPGuy96
27 - Dethwing
28 - soiledtrousers
29 - consolefreak
30 - SephirothG
31 - ExquisiteSamurai
32 - Dark115
33 - NewLib
34 - Draco1214
35 - jonthomson
36 - MegatokyoEd
37 - Voltch
38 - Lucid Faia
39 - Master Moltar
40 - KleenexTissue50
41 - red sox 777
42 - Mithrandir1331
43 - arkenaga
44 - Tai
45 - Mario Superstar
46 - neonreaper
47 - XxSoulxX
48 - SonicRaptor
49 - ChichiriMuyo
50 - OMG its Pale!
51 - dragoontheguy
52 - XIII is cool
53 - Shivan Reincarnated
54 - outback
55 - DarkLink89
56 - dethfdddddh
57 - Ayvuir
58 - Janus5000
59 - War13104
60 - andaca
61 - swirldude
62 - Explicit Content
63 - Meche313
64 - HeroicVivi
65 - FastFalcon05
66 - Tnote
67 - Yesmar
68 - Mac Arrowny
69 - MasterMage119
70 - King Morgoth
71 - Aprosenf
72 - Phediuk
73 - charmander6000
74 - Rufus Shinra 18
75 - Mister Mario
76 - Luis Sera89
77 - longbladeofhiko
78 - shadow8021
79 - Lieutenant Kettch
80 - RPGGamer0
81 - WiggumFan267
82 - MetaRidleyX
83 - chocoboslayer
84 - FFDragon
85 - GrapefruitKing
86 - Lagoona
87 - The CruelAngel
88 - Fett0001
89 - cyko
90 - Dunkeroo23
91 - Bobby200614
92 - Tediz247
93 - Samurai7
94 - Jman_GamerX8
95 - ps2rulezzz
96 - Dilated Chemist
97 - Guess how many Teens
98 - Prometheus321
99 - Steinershocker
100 - TheLivingDemon
101 - Tirofog
102 - TheRye
103 - Vile Requiem
104 - rpgapzx
105 - Pathetique
106 - Brett with Atreyu
107 - outsider920
108 - raytan7585
109 - Acronym

Remember to add yourself if you're not on yet.

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"lol x-stats" - The Contest Simulator: http://thengamer.com/xstats
Ngamer's Contest Archives: http://thengamer.com/gamefaqs/

MnMZero | Posted 6/17/2006 10:43:20 AM | message detail

My theory is that Sora looks good on paper, until he goes up against someone really strong.

Nah. He held his own against Samus, remember? I really think that picture was just so biased to Metal Gear as a whole, that it was pretty hard to support Sora unless you were a diehard fan. We are all knowledgable gamers. We know all about Metal Gear, Kingdom Hearts, and other big games even if we haven't played them or aren't necessarily fans of them. I think the average voter knows about as much. It doesn't take much for a voter to look at that picture and think "Ha, Snake is going to own Sora". Anybody even familiar with Metal Gear whatsoever is going to look at that pic and think "Metal Gear". And with how unprominent Sora was in the pic, I could see people giving Snake the vote without second thought.

As far as KH taking Metal Gear, I think it's worth a consideration, although I personally wouldn't take it. I've said before that you can't take Kingdom Hearts popularity 2 years ago to be the same as today. It's become much more popular as a series since then. It's become more well known, and it's become more liked by its own fans. Remember, Kingdom Hearts wasn't that well received as a game. It was pretty much labeled a button masher with some FF and some Disney characters in it, even by its own fanbase. The series has gotten its own identity since then, so I think the core fanbase will be more supportive of it as a game. Look for it to be much stronger than it was in 2k4.
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*Is therealmnm*
Proud Supporter of Zero in SC2k5

BeTheMan | Posted 6/17/2006 10:51:54 AM | message detail

Your Contest Gurus

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Team Rocket Elite
3 - Ngamer64
4 - yoblazer33
5 - transience
6 - Heroic Mario
7 - Viviff
8 - silverkiller
9 - Undeniable
10 - Kaxon
11 - Applekidjosh
12 - HaRRicH
13 - Lopen
14 - Z1mZum
15 - Chinballz
16 - A World's Envy
17 - Zylothewolf
18 - greatone
19 - cavedog0
20 - DomaDragoon
21 - Big Bob
22 - Ed Bellis
23 - expaniol
24 - Buzzup
25 - Radix
26 - RPGuy96
27 - Dethwing
28 - soiledtrousers
29 - consolefreak
30 - SephirothG
31 - ExquisiteSamurai
32 - Dark115
33 - NewLib
34 - Draco1214
35 - jonthomson
36 - MegatokyoEd
37 - Voltch
38 - Lucid Faia
39 - Master Moltar
40 - KleenexTissue50
41 - red sox 777
42 - Mithrandir1331
43 - arkenaga
44 - Tai
45 - Mario Superstar
46 - neonreaper
47 - XxSoulxX
48 - SonicRaptor
49 - ChichiriMuyo
50 - OMG its Pale!
51 - dragoontheguy
52 - XIII is cool
53 - Shivan Reincarnated
54 - outback
55 - DarkLink89
56 - dethfdddddh
57 - Ayvuir
58 - Janus5000
59 - War13104
60 - andaca
61 - swirldude
62 - Explicit Content
63 - Meche313
64 - HeroicVivi
65 - FastFalcon05
66 - Tnote
67 - Yesmar
68 - Mac Arrowny
69 - MasterMage119
70 - King Morgoth
71 - Aprosenf
72 - Phediuk
73 - charmander6000
74 - Rufus Shinra 18
75 - Mister Mario
76 - Luis Sera89
77 - longbladeofhiko
78 - shadow8021
79 - Lieutenant Kettch
80 - RPGGamer0
81 - WiggumFan267
82 - MetaRidleyX
83 - chocoboslayer
84 - FFDragon
85 - GrapefruitKing
86 - Lagoona
87 - The CruelAngel
88 - Fett0001
89 - cyko
90 - Dunkeroo23
91 - Bobby200614
92 - Tediz247
93 - Samurai7
94 - Jman_GamerX8
95 - ps2rulezzz
96 - Dilated Chemist
97 - Guess how many Teens
98 - Prometheus321
99 - Steinershocker
100 - TheLivingDemon
101 - Tirofog
102 - TheRye
103 - Vile Requiem
104 - rpgapzx
105 - Pathetique
106 - Brett with Atreyu
107 - outsider920
108 - raytan7585
109 - Acronym
110 - BeTheMan
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ALL YOUR VOTES ARE BELONG TO...Pac-Man?

TheLastOblesik | Posted 6/17/2006 10:56:54 AM | message detail

Your Contest Gurus

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Team Rocket Elite
3 - Ngamer64
4 - yoblazer33
5 - transience
6 - Heroic Mario
7 - Viviff
8 - silverkiller
9 - Undeniable
10 - Kaxon
11 - Applekidjosh
12 - HaRRicH
13 - Lopen
14 - Z1mZum
15 - Chinballz
16 - A World's Envy
17 - Zylothewolf
18 - greatone
19 - cavedog0
20 - DomaDragoon
21 - Big Bob
22 - Ed Bellis
23 - expaniol
24 - Buzzup
25 - Radix
26 - RPGuy96
27 - Dethwing
28 - soiledtrousers
29 - consolefreak
30 - SephirothG
31 - ExquisiteSamurai
32 - Dark115
33 - NewLib
34 - Draco1214
35 - jonthomson
36 - MegatokyoEd
37 - Voltch
38 - Lucid Faia
39 - Master Moltar
40 - KleenexTissue50
41 - red sox 777
42 - Mithrandir1331
43 - arkenaga
44 - Tai
45 - Mario Superstar
46 - neonreaper
47 - XxSoulxX
48 - SonicRaptor
49 - ChichiriMuyo
50 - OMG its Pale!
51 - dragoontheguy
52 - XIII is cool
53 - Shivan Reincarnated
54 - outback
55 - DarkLink89
56 - dethfdddddh
57 - Ayvuir
58 - Janus5000
59 - War13104
60 - andaca
61 - swirldude
62 - Explicit Content
63 - Meche313
64 - HeroicVivi
65 - FastFalcon05
66 - Tnote
67 - Yesmar
68 - Mac Arrowny
69 - MasterMage119
70 - King Morgoth
71 - Aprosenf
72 - Phediuk
73 - charmander6000
74 - Rufus Shinra 18
75 - Mister Mario
76 - Luis Sera89
77 - longbladeofhiko
78 - shadow8021
79 - Lieutenant Kettch
80 - RPGGamer0
81 - WiggumFan267
82 - MetaRidleyX
83 - chocoboslayer
84 - FFDragon
85 - GrapefruitKing
86 - Lagoona
87 - The CruelAngel
88 - Fett0001
89 - cyko
90 - Dunkeroo23
91 - Bobby200614
92 - Tediz247
93 - Samurai7
94 - Jman_GamerX8
95 - ps2rulezzz
96 - Dilated Chemist
97 - Guess how many Teens
98 - Prometheus321
99 - Steinershocker
100 - TheLivingDemon
101 - Tirofog
102 - TheRye
103 - Vile Requiem
104 - rpgapzx
105 - Pathetique
106 - Brett with Atreyu
107 - outsider920
108 - raytan7585
109 - Acronym
110 - BeTheMan
111 - TLO

yoblazer33 | Posted 6/17/2006 11:00:59 AM | message detail

you can't take Kingdom Hearts popularity 2 years ago to be the same as today. It's become much more popular as a series since then. It's become more well known, and it's become more liked by its own fans. Remember, Kingdom Hearts wasn't that well received as a game. It was pretty much labeled a button masher with some FF and some Disney characters in it, even by its own fanbase. The series has gotten its own identity since then, so I think the core fanbase will be more supportive of it as a game. Look for it to be much stronger than it was in 2k4.

I don't know how much stronger it's gotten over the last two years, but it certainly was no slouch in 2004 to begin with.
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Board 8: Where Wii treat each other right.

Zylo the wolf | Posted 6/17/2006 11:03:16 AM | message detail

Bold prediction

Ultros would've won over Terra or any other in the FFVI cast except Kefka. He just got SFF'D by Wily.
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Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is the best.

BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 6/17/2006 11:04:39 AM | message detail

BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 6/17/2006 11:05:32 AM | message detail

How did Ultros get SFF'd by Wily?

Some of these SFF accusations are really getting out of hand.

TuRtLe
~~~
Like Darth Maul, the bastard child of Michael Flatley and Hellboy. -trancer1

jonthomson | Posted 6/17/2006 11:07:07 AM | message detail

Some of these SFF accusations are really getting out of hand.

Very true. At least when I first suggested SMW/Sonic 2 SFF, it was like the same era and same type of game, hence the same fanbase, even if it's different consoles. Some of what I've seen in the past week or so is ridiculous.
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Jon Thomson - CATS, Jay Solano, Ridley, Scorpion, Alien Hominid, Duke Nukem, The Prince, Johnny Rocketfingers, two TBA

DKforpresident | Posted 6/17/2006 11:11:49 AM | message detail

I'm saying Soul Calibur will get through to the semi's, dark horse of the tourny!
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www.blog-of-chris.com
Visit my blog! Please

Slowflake | Posted 6/17/2006 11:13:18 AM | message detail

That is the most idiotic SFF accusation ever. Kefka's monstruously weak as is, Terra's as close as FF6 got to a main character and she's even weaker, and you make me want to buy that Ultros can beat the entire playable cast? This is ridiculous.
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Got a craving while you're watching training holos on your rest cycle? Try new PHAZONETS - a mouthful of mutation in every morsel!

LordOfDabu | Posted 6/17/2006 11:15:02 AM | message detail

I think he was mocking you guys for trying to apply the SFF label to nearly everything that doesn't go how you planned.
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Enter The GameFAQs StarCraft Tournament of Champions 2006:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=2000184&topic=28674294

dragoontheguy | Posted 6/17/2006 11:21:20 AM | message detail

I agree that sff is accusations are getting frequently ridiculous. I think snake vs. sora highlights this. The match went differently then planned, and there was sff because both characters have games on the same console? Give me a ****ing break.
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When dictatorship is a fact, revolution becomes a right. ~ Victor Hugo
{WoT}~> Board 408

Tequilla Gundam | Posted 6/17/2006 11:34:18 AM | message detail

Anyone have any non-cookie cutter picks?

Halo > KH for me ;x

BlAcK TuRtLe | Posted 6/17/2006 11:37:22 AM | message detail

Warcraft > GTA for me. I've been debating Halo > KH for a while and I probably won't decide until the day the brackets are due.

TuRtLe
~~~
Like Darth Maul, the bastard child of Michael Flatley and Hellboy. -trancer1

dragoontheguy | Posted 6/17/2006 11:40:37 AM | message detail

Upsets I have:

Elder scrolls > sf
I'm considering putting mario kart over mega man.
SSB > sonic (I'm unsure if this one is cookie cutter or not)
LoZ > FF

I have others that could be considered upset picks, but not by much I think.
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When dictatorship is a fact, revolution becomes a right. ~ Victor Hugo
{WoT}~> Board 408

Tequilla Gundam | Posted 6/17/2006 12:02:32 PM | message detail

SSB > Sonic is the consensus. ;x

LeonhartForever | Posted 6/17/2006 12:20:48 PM | message detail

I agree that sff is accusations are getting frequently ridiculous. I think snake vs. sora highlights this. The match went differently then planned, and there was sff because both characters have games on the same console?

...So you're telling me that sharing the same console ISN'T a factor? Since when? You're basically telling me that people on this site who own a PS2 (the top console on this site, yo) wouldn't possibly own BOTH a Metal Gear Solid game AND a Kingdom Hearts game? Being console exclusives only emphasizes that point. Also, we have TWO possible examples of FFVII pulling an overperformance on MGS, and all they do is share a console.

And for the person who said "anomalies happen," what do you think SFF is? It's an anomaly. And they happen for a reason. It's not a fluke occurrence. Solid Snake would do it again in a rematch, though perhaps not to the same extreme due to KHII.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

LordOfDabu | Posted 6/17/2006 12:22:34 PM | message detail

I think there's a problem when there's more anomalies than non-anomalies.
---
Enter The GameFAQs StarCraft Tournament of Champions 2006:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=2000184&topic=28674294

LeonhartForever | Posted 6/17/2006 12:25:43 PM | message detail

Except that there aren't. There ARE some instances when I believe we're expecting too much because we don't like/agree a result (Kirby/Bowser, perhaps, Crono/Vincent, perhaps). I think it's rather obvious that something went wrong in Snake/Sora because he's not as strong as Samus.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

PokemonPatriarch | Posted 6/17/2006 12:27:43 PM | message detail

:Upsets I have:

LoZ > FF
"

But as a series, it isn't too far-fetched for LoZ to take down Final Fantasy. If any series could, it would be Zelda.

My big upset I'm voting on is Pokemon over Metroid. On the boards and in the general viewing of the site, people remember how good the pokemon SERIES was, and what it did for the industry.

Pokemon>Metroid
Kingdom Hearts>Halo (Can you call that an upset?)
"LoZ>FF"
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I play the Pokemon Trading Card Game...HOOOOW LAME =P
~~~Allah Approves~~~

Janus5000 | Posted 6/17/2006 12:35:57 PM | message detail

Non cookie-cutter?

Soul Calibur > Metal Gear > Fire Emblem
Mario Kart > Mega Man
Kingdom Hearts > Soul Calibur

I think that's it...
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"Those who cast the vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything."

Sir Bormun | Posted 6/17/2006 12:39:59 PM | message detail

My non cookie-cutters...

Silent Hill>Fire Emblem (although I may change this)
Warcraft>Grand Theft Auto
Mario Kart>Mega Man
Street Fighter>Resident Evil
Kingdom Hearts>Metal Gear
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Need new sig.

LeonhartForever | Posted 6/17/2006 12:42:42 PM | message detail

I suppose my big upset picks are Sonic > SSB and SF > RE.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 6/17/2006 12:51:01 PM | message detail

It will bypass a midrange, mediocre series like Star Ocean easily (Xenogears, at least, had Square backing, and the fact that people seem to like it for whatever reason, while I hear little but 'meh, okay' about SO) but that's as far as I'm willing to place my faith in it.

There is nothing "mediocre" about Star Ocean, as it is easily one of the best series in this contest. As for midrange, you have to understand that Pokemon is no different. There is not one single argument that deals with Pokemon's strength or why it should win without having a misconception that Star Ocean is obscure or weak, which are getting beyond annoying at this point. Believe it or not, as of the latest entry into the series the "Square Enix" label is plastered all over that box. It may as well have Square support.

Star Ocean will be the biggest flop of the contest. Book it.

It won't be the biggest flop at all, seeing as it will beat Pokemon.

Unlike Suikoden II or Shadow Hearts: Covenant or Fire Emblem 7 or Xenogears, I have never heard anyone give gushing praise for Star Ocean 3. It's either "yeah, it's good, but it could've been a lot better" or "the plot twist was incredibly stupid" or "the first hour was good but then it became really boring".

Really now? Because the people I know who like the game actually think it's one of the best games ever. If we must go to use what we have seen from people, this very board put it at 15th or so in the Board 8 Top 100 games. Star Ocean 3 is not a perfect game, but by no means does it lack fans. I have heard many people give the game gushing praise. I have heard people say it was pretty, but could have been better. But all of this is completely irrelevant. A place like GameFAQs does have an interest and liking toward Star Ocean.

The series simply is not that popular. Pokemon is. Make no mistake. Yes, it will receive some antivotes, but it would be absolutely foolish to think that Pokemon does not have a large fanbase on GameFAQs.

What?! Did I just hear you try to pass off Pokemon as having a large fanbase on GameFAQs? You do realize that of all the matches Pokemon has been in, it won once -- Pikachu beat PaRappa the Rapper. Yeah, you really know that Pokemon has some great strength in this contest all right. If you think Pokemon has a large fanbase that votes for it in these contests, then you can rack up another tally for how many times you've been wrong.

Star Ocean is not a very popular series, but it doesn't need to be. It is not facing a popular series itself nor is it facing one that has strength far beyond its own. If you think Xenogears beating Pokemon is understandable, then you'd be a fool to think Star Ocean beating Pokemon isn't.

Even if it doesn't turn out to be very strong, the sheer publicity of the series will be more than enough to put away Star Ocean, which is just another cultish RPG series.

The moment you hit 630,000 sales in North America you are no longer under any circumstances considered "cult." Stop calling it something it isn't. Unless Resident Evil 4 is cult or God of War used to be cult or any other game you want me to name who passed the half a million mark in the States.

Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 6/17/2006 12:51:29 PM | message detail

But I would have taken Xenogears against Star Ocean in a match even then. It's not a widely popular series and none of its installments have been particularly well-liked.

Star Ocean 3 has been well liked. I have no clue where people got the ridiculous idea that people didn't like. Where is the basis for this? The board? The same board that doesn't talk much about the game but votes it as 15th or so on the Board 8 Top 100 game? Where in the world are you people getting that people do not like Star Ocean? Do these people exist? Yes, of course. Is it split? Hell no. It is a pretty popular series. It's nothing to write home about, but it isn't as though it's opponent is from a powerhouse series.

Is it from the mediocre Japan-only SNES game?

Ah, yes, using "mediocre" to describe the one of the best RPGs on the SNES. Awesome.

Anyway, any votes that would come from that game would be done so through emulation. It was released very late in the SNES's life, so even if it did come out in the States, it wouldn't have made as much difference in people buying it as it would people emulating it.

Or from the PS1 game released six years ago and came and went without much hype even then (and sold like 2 copies anyway)?

Star Ocean 2 is the more "cult" game you wish to label the series as. While it did sell pretty well at 370,000 copies, it didn't receive nearly the advertising as the next installment did. But it was met with some pretty good reception from those who did play it.

I don't know why it's so hard to get through to people that sales figures =/= popularity, let alone popularity on GameFAQs.

No one brings up Star Ocean sales in an attempt to justify strength or popularity. It is used to get rid of the ridiculous misconception that Star Ocean is obscure or lacking. It isn't and you always have some person who think it's comparable to Suikoden.

Or from the PS2 game that received mixed reviews at best and mediocre sales?

630,000 American sales is not mediocre. I know you're in love with the word, but let's not use it to incorrectly. Unles, of course, you wish to call Resident Evil 4 sales mediocre or any game that doesn't go on to sell a million, which would happen to be very few RPGs not named Final Fantasy. Hell, you like to bring up Suikoden, well guess what? Star Ocean 3 sold more than the entire Suikoden franchise combined.

The reviews were pretty good for the most part, too. There were a couple of high ranking scores like 9/10, but most of them rested in the 8/10, which is not horrible by any means. In fact, it averages right around 81%.

Most of its popularity comes from Star Ocean 3 -- which would kick any Pokemon game's ass in a contest. That was the game that really boosted the popularity of the series more than anything. But the fans who were more supportive of the "cult" series remain there from before.

Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 6/17/2006 12:52:04 PM | message detail

Yes, there was buzz when it came out. A new installment from a mid-tier RPG series is bound to create some buzz on GameFAQs, surprise surprise. Sure died off quickly, though.

Died off quickly? Star Ocean 3 remained in the Top 10 FAQs for months after its release, as I recall. It peaked at first place, too. There was no quick enjoyment and then just completely disappearing.

I don't like to look at polls as an example, simply because when you throw in a million different options, it's hard to see how it translates into a contest setting, but it's not as if it has performed poorly in every poll we've seen it in. There's simply no way to tell that it's not popular on here.

No, aside from basic logic, there's no way at all. Star Ocean doesn't have number of copies going for it. It doesn't have quality ratings in reviews going for it. It doesn't have brand name going for it. What is it that leads SO to be an unlaughable pick here?

It doesn't need to outsell Pokemon in order to win. The sales it has are more than enough to make it a match. We all are aware that sales do not equate in popularity, but there is no sense in bringing them up as some disadvantage if no one is trying to do for Star Ocean.

The quality rankings mean even less, as even with those Pokemon is a weak franchise that can never manage to win a match. It has no fanbase that actually gives it full on support in the matches it is in. I have no doubt it would lay waste to Suikoden or Shadow Hearts, but Star Ocean is neither of those because Star Ocean would kick their asses as well.

And in a match where "Pokemon" is not held in high regard, the fact that Star Ocean is now associated with "Square Enix" does give it an advantage. Square made sure to advertise the game a good deal when it came out, and they are going to be associated with it (even thought it's developed by tri-Ace).

If it were a games contest, would you even have to think about Star Ocean 3 v. Pokemon G/S/C or whatever version of the same game you want to use. I wouldn't have to give a second thought to taking Star Ocean 3 over any Pokemon installment without trouble.

Did the original Star Ocean even come out in NA? I've never in my entire life seen a copy. And yes, Pokemon is Pokemon is Pokemon, but you've said yourself that SO3 is the only Star Ocean game in recent memory, and SO2 didn't sell all that well, anyway.

Star Ocean 2 sold 370,000, which is not bad at all. That is actually closer to Xenosaga sales than any of the other "cult" RPGs any one wishes to bring up. And the original Star Ocean came out on only in Japan, but it would not have mattered much if it would have come out over here as it was released so late in the life of the SNES. Emulation is where most people would have played it, as you can download the game with the translation right there for you.

Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 6/17/2006 12:52:32 PM | message detail

This is a series contest, not a games contest. All of the Pokemon games have been enormously successful.

And for the success that Pokemon G/S/C had, all the millions upon millions of sells, it still got its ass beat by a game that wasn't anywhere near as successful. Pokemon games are practically the same exact thing with every installment. If you don't like one, you probably don't care for the others either. If you like one, you probably like them all. The general concept remains the same, as does the point. You catch Pokemon, beat trainers, get badges, and so on. They throw in double team, day/night, breeding, timed events, etc. but those are not going to be a deal breaker with people and make them enjoy one installment so much more than another. Combining them into a series isn't going to make it into any powerhouse.

Yes, it recieved reviews of around 80% on average, but Pokemon's rankings for its most recognizable entries are much better. If you look at the averages of the most significant entries of most series in the contest, you’ll find that their averages are much better than 80%.

Rankings on GameRankings are getting a bit overblown here because it never meant strength or how many people like a game, as Pokemon can attest to. Final Fantasy Tactics is above many games, and it scored 83% on GameRankings, which is very comparable to Star Ocean 3. On the flipside, Skies of Arcadia had 90% rankings and yet it's way down there. This is an inconsistentcy with rankings and strength.

It was a highly well-regarded RPG from Square (that being the brand name I was referring to). I underestimated just how well-liked it was.

That sounds similar to what you're doing here -- underestimating the amount of people who like Star Ocean. You seem to make it out to be a series that has more haters than people who like the series. The number of people who like the series (and SO3) are being grossly underestimated here. On that note, Star Ocean 3 may as well be considered a Square RPG.

Common sense and the powers of observation (and I just mean on GameFAQs generally, not some random people I know). When everyone else is saying so, you might want to consider it. Not that popular opinion = truth, but it's always worth a look when popular opinion on a popularity contest does not in any way coincide with your own opinion.

Your 'powers of observation' seem to be very different from mine then. I have seen and noticed many people putting it as their favorite game ever. I have also seen people who say it sucks, which is true in the case of Xenogears, Final Fantasy Tactics, or whatever. Star Ocean 3 does not this huge mass of people who dislike the game. Nothing from what I have seen has ever told me that. The Star Ocean series is generally looked upon very well as something great as opposed to something average. No clue on where you're concentrating those powers of yours.

LeonhartForever | Posted 6/17/2006 1:00:15 PM | message detail

My, that's a lot of rebutting.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 6/17/2006 1:04:46 PM | message detail

It's for a good cause!

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"If you're asking for a date, forget it. Because I made it a point not to go out with women who shoot me in the head."

LeonhartForever | Posted 6/17/2006 1:56:00 PM | message detail

Mentioned this at the end of the last stats topic, but most people seemed to have stop paying attention to it:

We should have a link to the Top 100 Games List on the first post here. I can't keep track of the thing.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

yoblazer33 | Posted 6/17/2006 2:00:46 PM | message detail

Seconded. I also think we should clean up all the sc2k5.com links. How many people here actually use those instead of just going to the site and finding what you want?
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Board 8: Where Wii treat each other right.

Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 6/17/2006 2:01:22 PM | message detail

http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/top10/top10_100.html

There's the link.

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"If you're asking for a date, forget it. Because I made it a point not to go out with women who shoot me in the head."

Adept of Aiur | Posted 6/17/2006 2:02:16 PM | message detail

Yeah, I agree. There should just be a link to http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/drupal/ as an all-purpose X-stat link.

And a top 100 list link is a good idea too.
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"An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows."

LeonhartForever | Posted 6/17/2006 2:02:28 PM | message detail

Yeah, we really don't need all those links to the various pages on sc2k5.com. It's not like they're hard to find or poorly labeled.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

RPGuy96 | Posted 6/17/2006 2:05:31 PM | message detail

I'm rather surprised there isn't more SF/RE discussion. Even with RE4, Ryu still beats Leon. And if SFII did poorly in the games contest, RE did much worse. Bison would thrash Wesker, and I'd go with Bison over Nemmy without much trouble, either.

I have RE in my bracket and don't really feel like playing devil's advocate, but do think it's strange that the match went to RE without any serious discussion.
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Mustache...and green...
http://www.rit.edu/~zmb0386/NintendoDesktop2.jpg

LeonhartForever | Posted 6/17/2006 2:08:24 PM | message detail

Is it possible that Resident Evil underperformed against Metal Gear Solid? I've thought there was at least a chance of it.

But yeah, Street Fighter has a good chance of winning, I think. That Favorite Capcom Series poll is only worth so much, and we saw Jill's popularity rapidly depreciate every year she was in the contest.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

yoblazer33 | Posted 6/17/2006 2:09:59 PM | message detail

I have RE in my bracket and don't really feel like playing devil's advocate, but do think it's strange that the match went to RE without any serious discussion.

Same. I'm really baffled as to how there is more ES/SF discussion than SF/RE.
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Board 8: Where Wii treat each other right.

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