GameFAQs Contests
Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 292
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| Lopen | Posted 6/15/2006 7:53:10 PM | message detail |
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As I said, S3&K doesn't exist on GameFAQs. Sonic 3 exists, Sonic & Knuckles exists, but the combination doesn't. I somehow doubt CJayC wouldn't pool the votes towards the two as one entity. Either under Sonic 3, Sonic & Knuckles, or more likely Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Do you think Starcraft and Starcraft: Broodwar wouldn't get their nominations/votes pooled? Same situation here, I'd bet. --- Raiden is still [!!] nominations short! http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs9/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=27664244 |
| Mac Arrowny | Posted 6/15/2006 8:02:00 PM | message detail |
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I'd probably put SotN at around 28%: that puts Goldeneye a little behind SSBM, which I think is quite reasonable. I somehow doubt CJayC wouldn't pool the votes towards the two as one entity. Either under Sonic 3, Sonic & Knuckles, or more likely Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Do you think Starcraft and Starcraft: Broodwar wouldn't get their nominations/votes pooled? Same situation here, I'd bet. http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=580 So, S3&K gets 35% compared to S2's 19%? I see. Also: Sonic Adventure 2 is FIVE TIMES AS STRONG as it was at the time of its poll. FIVE TIMES! Well, probably not that much, but its sales have quintupled since then, and the GCN has an advantage of its own against the DC here. People are severely underestimating SA2. Games like SA2 are what would make a new games contest worth it...seeing it upset Metroid Prime would make me quite happy. --- Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent. |
| Lopen | Posted 6/15/2006 8:14:29 PM | message detail |
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I don't understand how that relates to my thoughts, I'm just saying
that if enough people nominated Sonic 3 & Knuckles, he'd probably
pool the votes for it with either Sonic & Knuckles, or Sonic 3, or
both and put the union in the bracket under one of the names. --- Raiden is still [!!] nominations short! http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs9/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=27664244 |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 6/15/2006 8:18:12 PM | message detail |
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but SOTN has done nothing but show it's stronger than every Sonic game. Old, I know, but this is an erroneous statement, I would say. It's done nothing but show that it's probably stronger than Sonic's 3rd strongest game. I'm not quite sure where you get this "stronger than every Sonic game" stuff because, quite frankly, I'm not seeing it anywhere. Besides, didn't we say that games like Symphony of the Night and Earthbound are probably a bit overrated by the top 100 list due to having such hardcore followings? Besides, I could see SA2:B or S3&K breaking 40% on GoldenEye easily. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Knowing your enemy is the quickest path to victory. |
| trannyscience | Posted 6/15/2006 8:22:45 PM | message detail |
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my fault there. I should have said that it's stronger than any Sonic
game we've seen. I don't think the others would be far away from Sonic
2, but you can argue the point. Besides, didn't we say that games like Symphony of the Night and Earthbound are probably a bit overrated by the top 100 list due to having such hardcore followings? Besides, I could see SA2:B or S3&K breaking 40% on GoldenEye easily. hardcore fans.. you mean like Super Metroid? Super Metroid placed a ways back - #24 I think? - while SOTN placed pretty nicely. I'm not sure what "hardcore" means, but I know for sure that Sonic has some passionate fans yet only got.. I don't know, whatever place it was. and there was only one Sonic game on the drop-down list as well. --- xyzzy |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 6/15/2006 8:26:34 PM | message detail |
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I'm talking about, like Earthbound, a splid group of fans who will vote
it highly over nearly anything, though that group isn't big enough to
put it over the big boys in a direct match, such as some of the games
SotN ranked ahead of (StarCraft, FFVIII, and Kingdom Hearts, for
example). And as I mentioned before, the Sonic fanbase is split on favorites, and Sonic 2 likely isn't the favorite. I didn't list Sonic 2 just because it was on the list and no other game was. In that aspect, the list is a bit skewed in the results department. How many people have you seen that say, "Sonic 2 was nothing special... but S3&K! HOLY CRAP DID THAT ROCK MY SOCKS". Sonic 3 & Knuckles is one of my favorite games ever. Sonic 2...is not. It's a great game, but man, I hate some of those zones. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Knowing your enemy is the quickest path to victory. |
| cyko | Posted 6/15/2006 8:27:38 PM | message detail |
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y'know, i personally feel that both Sonic and Megaman are characters
who draw their votes from their image and reputation they've built up
over the years - not because of the quality of their games. Sonic in
particular (since that's who's being discussed more recently) was the
mascot for one of the most well-known companies for three generations.
plus, he's had multiple cartoon shows for even more exposure. it's that iconic status that has made Sonic popular and not because he had great games. in fact, i'd wager that if you consult most major gaming sites or magazines for a conclusive "best game ever" list, you won't find many Sonic games (or Megaman games, for that matter). so, yeah, i'd probably take Castlevania over Sonic, too, and i won't be surprised at all when Devil May Cry holds it's own against Sonic and SSB squashes Sonic like a bug. --- "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women...." - Homer Simpson |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 6/15/2006 8:27:55 PM | message detail |
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my fault there. I should have said that it's stronger than any Sonic game we've seen. And either way, this is a misleading statement. We've only seen one and few believe it was the strongest one. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Knowing your enemy is the quickest path to victory. |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 6/15/2006 8:28:48 PM | message detail |
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so, yeah, i'd probably take Castlevania over Sonic, too, and i won't
be surprised at all when Devil May Cry holds it's own against Sonic and
SSB squashes Sonic like a bug. When? Hmph. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Knowing your enemy is the quickest path to victory. |
| trannyscience | Posted 6/15/2006 8:30:41 PM | message detail |
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I don't think the list is the end-all of contest strength, that's for
sure.. but I also don't think you get to #15 just by having a small
group of people that think it's the best game ever. I'm not sure that
I've ever encountered someone who dislikes SOTN. maybe #30-40, but not
#15. I know I wouldn't take SOTN over Mario World just because it
placed higher on the list. --- xyzzy |
| trannyscience | Posted 6/15/2006 8:32:01 PM | message detail |
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I also agree with what cyko said... well, up to the last sentence.
Sonic may not come close to his character, but he should still hold
some decent strength. --- xyzzy |
| cyko | Posted 6/15/2006 8:32:03 PM | message detail |
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that's right!! bold statements about the future without solid proof!! HA!!! --- "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women...." - Homer Simpson |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 6/15/2006 8:32:31 PM | message detail |
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I don't mean that the group is small. I mean that it has a collective
hardcore following that rank it highly over just about ANYTHING, like
Earthbound. That core group is certainly bigger than Earthbound's, but
it's not huge. After all, it still got beaten fairly easily by
GoldenEye. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Knowing your enemy is the quickest path to victory. |
| trannyscience | Posted 6/15/2006 8:34:13 PM | message detail |
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I wouldn't expect Sonic 2 to fare any better vs. Goldeneye. --- xyzzy |
| TheKeyofDestiny | Posted 6/15/2006 8:34:53 PM | message detail |
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I never implied anywhere that it would. --- "You make a good other." |
| yoblazer33 | Posted 6/15/2006 8:35:20 PM | message detail |
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I think Goldeneye could 60/40 any Sonic game. --- Board 8: Where Wii treat each other right. |
| TheKeyofDestiny | Posted 6/15/2006 8:35:50 PM | message detail |
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Now ANY Sonic game is where we'll have to disagree. --- "You make a good other." |
| yoblazer33 | Posted 6/15/2006 8:38:56 PM | message detail |
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Maybe S3&K could make it a bit closer, but I have serious doubts
when people bring Sonic Adventure 2 in the mix. I just don't see it as
being equal to Sonic's 2D games, but maybe that's because my head's
clouded by Mario and Mega Man. --- Board 8: Where Wii treat each other right. |
| LeonhartForever | Posted 6/15/2006 8:41:03 PM | message detail |
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Don't be deceived. Sonic Adventure 2 IS a popular game, more than
capable of holding its own. I just don't see any reason for it not to
be. As I've said before, Shadow gets his popularity from somewhere. Just being a Sonic proxy isn't enough. --- SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden |
| cyko | Posted 6/15/2006 8:44:17 PM | message detail |
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in fact, i'd wager that if you consult most major gaming sites or
magazines for a conclusive "best game ever" list, you won't find many
Sonic games (or Megaman games, for that matter). case in point - i checked EGM's "Top 200 games of their time" and Sonic and Megaman each got a grand total of one game each on the list: Sonic 1 at #56 and Megaman II at #53. that's it. i could count how many there are for the other series, (like Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc.) but i don't feel like it. =P however, Super Mario Kart made it in at #19..... --- "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women...." - Homer Simpson |
| LeonhartForever | Posted 6/15/2006 8:45:19 PM | message detail |
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What is wrong with these lists constantly having the wrong Mario Kart game on it? Well, not to say that Super Mario Kart is a game that shouldn't be on a list. Just not above Mario Kart 64. --- SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 6/15/2006 8:47:44 PM | message detail |
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Mega Man X > > Mega Man 2. --- "If you're asking for a date, forget it. Because I made it a point not to go out with women who shoot me in the head." |
| yoblazer33 | Posted 6/15/2006 8:48:54 PM | message detail |
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http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=580 That might be the only Sonic poll we have. I know the voter pool and voter preference has been overhauled time and time again since 2001, but even then, it's pretty clear which 2D Sonic game is the most popular. Now, could Sonic Adventure 2 have gained enough steam in the past five years to challenge it? --- Board 8: Where Wii treat each other right. |
| Adept of Aiur | Posted 6/15/2006 8:49:57 PM | message detail |
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http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=580 That might be the only Sonic poll we have. I know the voter pool and voter preference has been overhauled time and time again since 2001, but even then, it's pretty clear which 2D Sonic game is the most popular. Now, could Sonic Adventure 2 have gained enough steam in the past five years to challenge it? I pray you're implying that S3&K is the most popular 2D Sonic. Otherwise I'm extemely confused. --- "An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows." |
| LeonhartForever | Posted 6/15/2006 8:50:15 PM | message detail |
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Now, could Sonic Adventure 2 have gained enough steam in the past five years to challenge it? Considering Sonic Adventure 2 was Dreamcast only at that point and still did that well (heck, the original Sonic Adventure didn't do that badly either), I'd say yes. --- SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden |
| yoblazer33 | Posted 6/15/2006 8:50:18 PM | message detail |
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I am, dawg. --- Board 8: Where Wii treat each other right. |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 6/15/2006 8:50:41 PM | message detail |
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I don't see why not. That poll was taken before Sonic Adventure 2 :
Battle was released on the GameCube. I don't want to use it as a means
to justify strength (and I'm not), but it did sell over a million
copies in America alone. --- "If you're asking for a date, forget it. Because I made it a point not to go out with women who shoot me in the head." |
| yoblazer33 | Posted 6/15/2006 8:51:59 PM | message detail |
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And what's this I hear about GameFAQs not recognizing Sonic 3 & Knuckles? --- Board 8: Where Wii treat each other right. |
| trannyscience | Posted 6/15/2006 8:52:54 PM | message detail |
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SMK > MK64, yo. and why does a Gamecube port mean instant strength? I don't think the DC is as obscure a system as people are making it out to be. Soul Calibur did get 49% on KH, after all. --- xyzzy |
| LeonhartForever | Posted 6/15/2006 8:53:16 PM | message detail |
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You can't find an FAQ listing or anything of the sort for Sonic 3 &
Knuckles, even if it is the completed version of the game. Believe me,
I tried to find it when filling out my top 10 list for the Top 100
Games entry. --- SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden |
| Adept of Aiur | Posted 6/15/2006 8:53:25 PM | message detail |
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And what's this I hear about GameFAQs not recognizing Sonic 3 & Knuckles? GameFAQs doesn't have a listing for S3&K since it's technically not a single cartridge game. It has separate listings for Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles... So for the top 100 list, it wasn't possible to vote for S3&K as a top game. --- "An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows." |
| cyko | Posted 6/15/2006 8:53:47 PM | message detail |
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i dunno, Leon. have you gone back and played Mario Kart 64 lately? i recently did when Mario Kart DS came out, and i gotta say that Super Mario Kart is still great to play, while MK64 is rather dull. it was almost unplayable compared to the other MarioKarts. 4-player Battle Mode was definitely awesome. but other than Yoshi's Valley and Toad's Turnpike, the tracks were mostly just long and boring, with few shortcuts. i mean, Moo Moo Farm? what was that lameness? and Frappe Snowland? more like Crappy Snowland. the Rainbow Road track alone took 7 minutes. ugh. the AI in MK64 was also more annoying and inconsistent than SMK. in SMK, when you took out an opponent, it took them a while to catch back up to you. in MK64, hitting a cpu opponent with a red shell didn't even faze them. they kept right up with you as if you never even hit them. on top of that, they got replaced the awesome Feather with the bastard Blue Shell. so, yeah, the AI and tracks in SMK were far superior to MK64 and held up much better over time. --- "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women...." - Homer Simpson |
| Adept of Aiur | Posted 6/15/2006 8:54:05 PM | message detail |
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and why does a Gamecube port mean instant strength? I don't think the DC is as obscure a system as people are making it out to be. Soul Calibur did get 49% on KH, after all. It's moreso that GCN helped increase the SA2 sales to such a ridiculous degree it's... well, ridiculous. --- "An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows." |
| Lopen | Posted 6/15/2006 8:54:22 PM | message detail |
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So for the top 100 list, it wasn't possible to vote for S3&K as a top game. It'd have to have been on the drop down menu to have a fighting chance anyway, I fail to see your point. --- Raiden is still [!!] nominations short! http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs9/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=27664244 |
| LeonhartForever | Posted 6/15/2006 8:54:32 PM | message detail |
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and why does a Gamecube port mean instant strength? That's not necessarily what I meant, but you can't tell me that going multiconsole for the very first time hurts. And as HM said, it sold quite well on the 'Cube. --- SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 6/15/2006 8:54:55 PM | message detail |
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http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=2308 Just to throw it out there. And while the Dreamcast wasn't necessarily an obscure system, I would wager most people have played SA2 on the GameCube as opposed to the Dreamcast, especially here at GameFAQs. --- "If you're asking for a date, forget it. Because I made it a point not to go out with women who shoot me in the head." |
| LeonhartForever | Posted 6/15/2006 8:55:39 PM | message detail |
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It'd have to have been on the drop down menu to have a fighting chance anyway, I fail to see your point. His point is that it makes people like me (who want to list it) very angry. Plus, it puts into question whether CJayC would consider it one entry in a games contest. --- SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden |
| Adept of Aiur | Posted 6/15/2006 8:56:08 PM | message detail |
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It'd have to have been on the drop down menu to have a fighting chance anyway, I fail to see your point. ...Well, the fact that you couldn't vote for S3&K meant that if you preferred it to Sonic 2, the Sonic series either lost your vote entirely or got it split between Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic 3, which would make the whole series look weaker than if, say, S3&K was ranked right above Sonic 2 or even right below it. --- "An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows." |
| Adept of Aiur | Posted 6/15/2006 8:56:56 PM | message detail |
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Yeah, and the one entry in a contest thing. --- "An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows." |
| LeonhartForever | Posted 6/15/2006 8:56:58 PM | message detail |
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i dunno, Leon. have you gone back and played Mario Kart 64 lately? Yep, I still enjoy playing it a whole lot more than most games (including SSBM, which I got burned out on a long time ago). --- SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden |
| trannyscience | Posted 6/15/2006 8:58:02 PM | message detail |
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That's not necessarily what I meant, but you can't tell me that
going multiconsole for the very first time hurts. And as HM said, it
sold quite well on the 'Cube. definitely not; however, some people in here have argued that the PS2 port of RE4 won't help very much. I'm just wondering what the difference is. --- xyzzy |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 6/15/2006 8:59:04 PM | message detail |
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Anyone thinking the port of RE4 won't help is out of their mind. Plain and simple. --- "If you're asking for a date, forget it. Because I made it a point not to go out with women who shoot me in the head." |
| Lopen | Posted 6/15/2006 8:59:05 PM | message detail |
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I think most casual fans of Sonic 3 & Knuckles would just vote
Sonic & Knuckles, really. Whenever I'd think of that game that's
what I'd associate it with until you guys were out there spewing your
S3&K thing. Heh heh. --- Raiden is still [!!] nominations short! http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs9/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=27664244 |
| LeonhartForever | Posted 6/15/2006 9:00:11 PM | message detail |
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Sonic & Knuckles IS the better half of that game, but there are still plenty of people who prefer Sonic 3. --- SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden |
| cyko | Posted 6/15/2006 9:07:44 PM | message detail |
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for amusement's sake, here's all of the console games that made
Gamespy's Top 50 game list in June, 2001. keep in mind that Gamespy is
a VERY PC-heavy site: 46. Super Metroid 43. Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time 38. Goldeneye 007 32. Metal Gear Solid 30. Street Fighter 2 28. Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 23. Final Fantasy 3 20. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 11. Super Mario 64 10. Legend of Zelda that was before GTA and Halo. and there's no Mario Kart or Resident Evil. but all of the other main series are represented there. EXCEPT Sonic and Megaman. why? because their games just aren't widely recognized as being of the same quality as these other all-time great series. --- "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women...." - Homer Simpson |
| trannyscience | Posted 6/15/2006 9:09:30 PM | message detail |
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what was 1, like Half-Life? I don't take anything from that.. totally different population. you can just look at the results for proof. --- xyzzy |
| LeonhartForever | Posted 6/15/2006 9:10:05 PM | message detail |
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but all of the other main series are represented there. EXCEPT Sonic
and Megaman. why? because their games just aren't widely recognized as
being of the same quality as these other all-time great series. I don't think that's the ONLY conclusion that can be drawn from such a scenario, but it's a viable one. --- SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden |
| cyko | Posted 6/15/2006 9:10:43 PM | message detail |
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actually, Doom was #1. Half-Life was #2. and that was a critics/game developers list. NOT a reader's list. --- "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women...." - Homer Simpson |
| Ed Bellis | Posted 6/15/2006 9:17:43 PM | message detail |
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To be fair, Game Informer's Top 100 List (which came out in... 2001?)
had two Sonic games (Sonic 1, at #61, and Sonic 2, at #24) and one Mega
Man game (MM2, at #32). I like their list a lot; it's easily got more
diversity than any other top gaming list I've ever seen, the only
exception being IGN's recent top 100. --- This was Ed Bellis. Summer 2005 Fanfiction Project: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=28403845 |
| cyko | Posted 6/15/2006 9:26:19 PM | message detail |
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i'd be curious to see Game Informer's list. oh, and i did check IGN's Top 100 list and again, the original Sonic shows up at #63 and there are no Megaman games at all. if characters can be significantly weaker than their games, then it seems very possible that characters could be somewhat (if not significantly) stronger than their games; like Sonic and Shadow the Hedgehog and Megaman. --- "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women...." - Homer Simpson |