GameFAQs Contests
Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 285
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| longbladeofhiko | Posted 5/29/2006 2:58:59 PM | message detail |
| Smash Bros is the only reason I like certain characters. Like Samus
for instance. Well, I loved Super Metroid, but can't seem to get into
any other Metroid games. --- The WWEGSB Hardcore Legend Masa |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 5/29/2006 3:00:47 PM | message detail |
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when was the last time SSB or anything from SSB disappointed people in a contest setting? It was more of overrating its influence than anything. I found it ridiculous that people were seriously discussing Super Smash Brothers being the cause of the Nintendo Boost. And last I checked, Master Hand is the only SSB-exclusive thing we've seen in a character contest, and he sucked hard. Yes, he beat Kuja, but he was still pathetic. Heck, it would've gotten owned by the fin of the main villain of the game that Melee beat in the Spring Contest. And I wonder how much we'd be talking about the game's "power" if there were a balanced picture against FFX and it had narrowly lost instead of narrowly winning. Either way, it's hard to make an argument that "anything from SSB" has disappointed for this one reason: Most of them ALREADY came from established franchises. We have NEVER, other than Master Hand, seen exactly how much it can do for any one character. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Knowing your enemy is the quickest path to victory. |
| Mac Arrowny | Posted 5/29/2006 3:01:21 PM | message detail |
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I don't get all this talk of GTA > MGS. I would say that GTA's main
three games have a very similar fanbase, since they came out within
three years of each other on the same console and all sold fairly
similar amounts. Also, looking at the contest, I'd probably put MGS at
around Halo's strength, which would make it substantially stronger than
any GTA (and almost as strong as SSBM (although I think SSBM has risen
since 2k4)). Finally, TV's strength has not held up well at all over
time. GTA was at its peak in 2004/2005; until GTA 5 comes out, it has
nowhere to go but down. Where would people fit Metroid in with those four series? SM and MP are almost as strong as GTA:VC, and Metroid 1 did surprisingly well (better than SMRPG). Plus, I think that Metroid would have one of the strongest handheld fanbases of any series, since half of its games have been portable. --- Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent. |
| yoblazer33 | Posted 5/29/2006 3:01:59 PM | message detail |
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So... never. --- Board 8: Where Wii treat each other right. |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 5/29/2006 3:04:05 PM | message detail |
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*sighs* Whatever. If we want to overlook Master Hand's ineptitude merely because he won a match, go ahead. I just think it's not a valid argument because you're talking about a game full of characters already from established franchises. Several of those characters would have already been strong without that game. He disappointed HaRRicH's expectations at any rate because he won't be beating Falco anytime soon. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Knowing your enemy is the quickest path to victory. |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 5/29/2006 3:05:55 PM | message detail |
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Also, would anybody expect the likes of Marth, Roy, or Game & Watch to be anything worth noting? I wouldn't. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Knowing your enemy is the quickest path to victory. |
| jonthomson | Posted 5/29/2006 3:07:56 PM | message detail |
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Pray tell, other than the Fall Top 100, which was a very unique
"contest," when was the last time SSB or anything from SSB disappointed
people in a contest setting? I'm not disputing SSBM did very well in the games contest, and that a lot of the characters in said game are incredibly strong. As a series, it's got one very good game and one game which would be strong in a games contest environment as well. That's two games. That won't be enough to claim fourth in a strongest series contest. MGS spans as many generations of hardware across more platforms. GTA does the same. Chrono has the same failings. Sonic spans further but has been weak, games wise, of late, which is why I'd take MGS over it. BTW, I know most voters are muppets and won't think on this level. But then again I think they will be intelligent enough to recognise that Sonic has done more, series wise, than Chrono has. --- Jon Thomson - CATS, Jay Solano, Ridley, Scorpion, Alien Hominid, Duke Nukem, The Prince, Johnny Rocketfingers, two TBA |
| yoblazer33 | Posted 5/29/2006 3:09:54 PM | message detail |
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If we want to overlook Master Hand's ineptitude merely because he won a match, go ahead. Overlooking his ineptitude? He may be low in the stats, but how seriously have we been taking the stats these past nine months? Besides, he's a hand. A ****ing hand. A ****ing hand that beat the main villain of a Playstation multi-million selling Final Fantasy title. I half expect Lucid to come in here and exclaim "He beat Who Cares (or was it Not Robotnik?)!" That still doesn't change the fact Kuja is the main villain of a multi-million selling Final Fantasy title. Besides, since everyone is loving the idea of FFVII/MGS SFF, I don't think Robotnik/Master Hand SFF is a ridiculous theory. We've seen it before; the Sonic and Nintendo fanbases are now very interwoven. --- Board 8: Where Wii treat each other right. |
| Slowflake | Posted 5/29/2006 3:24:24 PM | message detail |
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How about Ganondorf/Eggman SFF? Goes both ways... I can hardly believe
Eggman's weaker than some dude who let himself be led by CATS for four
hours. Incidentally, with all the bracket whining we have these days, I was looking through my old stuff, and I did find a bracket... well, it was that of the sequel to the Pokémon tournament I ran last year that I was planning to do after this year's character battle. Guess that day's never coming... --- Also, eat from garbage cans as much as possible, because nobody in America ever throws away anything that can make you fat. -MYC health tip |
| yoblazer33 | Posted 5/29/2006 3:34:09 PM | message detail |
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Heh, if Hand got hit with a double shot of SFF, he'd suddenly look a lot less inept. --- Board 8: Where Wii treat each other right. |
| Team Rocket Elite | Posted 5/29/2006 3:38:21 PM | message detail |
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Most people expected Master Hand to get decimated by Kuja. Master Hand
went on to win the match. I fail to see how Master Hand disappointed. Also, would anybody expect the likes of Marth, Roy, or Game & Watch to be anything worth noting? Marth and Roy yes, Game & Watch not so much. It would be interesting to see how much power Marth would get for being a top tier SSBM character. I'd like to see Roy more since his original appearance was in SSBM and he doesn't seem likely to be back in SSBB. --- Nominate Seiken Densetsu and Pokemon for GameFAQ's Best. Series. Ever. Contest!! www.gamefaqs.com/features/contest/contest_nominate.php |
| Lopen | Posted 5/29/2006 3:39:43 PM | message detail |
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The main problem I have with Robotnik being underrated is that the more
you bring him up, the more you bring Sin up. And I'm not buying Sin as
any sort of threat. --- Raiden is still [!!] nominations short! http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs9/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=27664244 |
| Slowflake | Posted 5/29/2006 3:43:22 PM | message detail |
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Many people were, though. Other than Ridley/Diablo, Eggman/Sin was the most debated round 1 match. --- Also, eat from garbage cans as much as possible, because nobody in America ever throws away anything that can make you fat. -MYC health tip |
| Slowflake | Posted 5/29/2006 3:43:36 PM | message detail |
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According to BOP numbers, that is. --- Also, eat from garbage cans as much as possible, because nobody in America ever throws away anything that can make you fat. -MYC health tip |
| dethfdddddh | Posted 5/29/2006 3:46:05 PM | message detail |
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Would SPOILERS Seymour or Jecht have been able to make up the difference between Sin and Robotnik? --- Just Got Owned By Guru winner Voltch. |
| Slowflake | Posted 5/29/2006 3:47:09 PM | message detail |
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The initial reaction to the bracket was, WTF was SIN doing there instead of Seymour? And I don't think Jecht would've qualified as a villain, anyway. --- Also, eat from garbage cans as much as possible, because nobody in America ever throws away anything that can make you fat. -MYC health tip |
| Lopen | Posted 5/29/2006 3:49:45 PM | message detail |
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And I bet the majority of those people's rationale came from Robotnik
not being anything of note as opposed to Sin being something. Imagine someone saying this: "Sin is my favorite character!". This is just "common sense" on my part, he's a whale, he's got no charisma. He just rolls over towns. And yes, I'd take Seymour over Robotnik by a few % at least. --- Raiden is still [!!] nominations short! http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs9/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=27664244 |
| WilhuffTarkin | Posted 5/29/2006 3:50:14 PM | message detail |
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Considering that you can't PLAY as Master Hand, I hardly think that he
represents how much a SSB game can do for any one character. --- Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin Favorite game ever: Super Mario 64 |
| Slowflake | Posted 5/29/2006 3:53:59 PM | message detail |
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Speaking of the BOP just reminded me, I promised that during the
off-season I'd do the odds for the 2004 contest... and I haven't even
done it yet. Looks like I'm an even bigger procrastinator than CJayC. --- Also, eat from garbage cans as much as possible, because nobody in America ever throws away anything that can make you fat. -MYC health tip |
| Slowflake | Posted 5/29/2006 4:15:12 PM | message detail |
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Done. Gotta love DDR having 95:1 odds. Good thing we haven't had anomalies like that since. --- Also, eat from garbage cans as much as possible, because nobody in America ever throws away anything that can make you fat. -MYC health tip |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 5/29/2006 4:21:21 PM | message detail |
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Wow ... is there some ridiculous talk going on in here from one particular person ... Time to cover some crap! =p --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Some bloodlines must come to an end. |
| therealmnm | Posted 5/29/2006 4:22:34 PM | message detail |
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Huh? Why would we be judging SSB's popularity based on Master Hand?
That has to be one of the most off-the-wall things I've heard, no
offense. Individual characters who gain their popularity from SSB
(Captain Falcon, Marth) wouldn't be what you use to judge the series's
popularity. The presence of all of Nintendo's established stars is the
reason why SSB is popular in the first place, so I don't see
how that can be used as a reason to think the series is overrated. That
is the very essence of it's strength. Do you want me to bring up images of the FFX/SSBM match pic which you claim is possibly the most unfair match pic of all time? ;) SSB as a series is basically "Nintendo All-Stars". Everything it has done in both the 2k4 contest and placing sixth on the Top 100 list is legit. Nobody is overrating anything. The overrated talk came from talk of it possibly challenging Chrono Trigger on the list or at least placing higher than sixth. Taking SSB to beat Metal Gear is by no means overrated it. So far from what I've seen, there's nothing that suggests that SSB wouldn't be able to beat MGS... --- Nominate Carmen Sandiego for SC2k6 Currently playing: KH2, MGS3:S, GTA:SA, MMAC (wow, my PS2 is actually getting play!) |
| therealmnm | Posted 5/29/2006 4:40:00 PM | message detail |
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Sure, it started up talk about what other characters could be in it,
but the first thing that was ever talked about or the headline of every
article after the trailer was something to the effect of "SOLID SNAKE
IN SSBB! WHOA!!!!!!!!!" And I maintain that had it been another 3rd party like Sonic or Mega Man, the reaction would have been just the same. SSBB didn't specifically need Solid Snake to create a buzz. Nonetheless, there still has been a huge buzz generated by SSBB. That can only serve to help it. I don't get all this talk of GTA > MGS. I would say that GTA's main three games have a very similar fanbase, since they came out within three years of each other on the same console and all sold fairly similar amounts. Also, looking at the contest, I'd probably put MGS at around Halo's strength, which would make it substantially stronger than any GTA (and almost as strong as SSBM (although I think SSBM has risen since 2k4)). Finally, TV's strength has not held up well at all over time. GTA was at its peak in 2004/2005; until GTA 5 comes out, it has nowhere to go but down. I think San Andreas is more popular than Vice City. And everything we've seen on this site shows that the GTA fanbase on this site is just about as large as the MGS fanbase. You can't really judge GTA by it's characters because it's not really a character-centric series. As for MGS, I think Halo's place in the 2k4 stats is a little high for it. I don't think there is that much of a gap between MGS2 and MGS. That would suggest that there is a significant number of MGS fans that wouldn't vote for MGS against a common game. I find that hard to buy. I also wouldn't put MGS past FFX. I'd probably place it below FFX, which would be right where GTA:Vice City ranks. GTA is very well capable of beating MGS from everything we've seen. You certainly cannot say it's not debatable. I'd take GTA over Halo as a series, mind you... --- Nominate Carmen Sandiego for SC2k6 Currently playing: KH2, MGS3:S, GTA:SA, MMAC (wow, my PS2 is actually getting play!) |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 5/29/2006 4:51:50 PM | message detail |
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I think that people are putting a little too much stock in it as a
series. I don't think the series as a whole would put it that much
higher in strength than it's most popular game, at least in a contest
setting. I really don't think it would beat any of the other 3. ... Why? Why would Metal Gear not perform better than one Metal Gear Solid game? That makes absolutely no sense. So I suppose every series is going to perform only at the strength of the strongest game, ignoring everything that contributes to the series as a whole. That is more or less what you're saying. Metal Gear, as a series, has a lot of contributing factors going into it -- Metal Gear Solid, Metal Gear Solid 2, and Metal Gear Solid 3. You're combining all of them together in a series over just a singular game. As an example, with something like Chrono, where it really only one game with notable strength, it would be Chrono Trigger v. Metal Gear (series). I think it is painfully obvious who is going to actually win that one. Unless you believe Chrono Trigger beats every single Metal Gear Solid game put together. If you do have this line of thinking, I hope it works for everything you discuss -- Final Fantasy, Mario, The Legend of Zelda, etc. They all better fall under this "not much stronger than their strongest game" bit. Pulling out Metal Gear and singling it out would make no sense at all. There are two ends of the spectrum when it comes to series. On one end, you have a series like Final Fantasy which has many games that have distinct fanbases, so its strength would increase. On the other end, you have a series like Devil May Cry which has the same fanbase for all of its games (you don't see a DMC fanbase vs. a DMC3 fanbase), so the series is probably as strong as its most popular game. Much like Devil May Cry, Final Fantasy has games within its series that gather a good bit hatred. Devil May Cry 2 is very much disliked among that fanbase. Pretty much everyone viewed it as a step back from DMC. The diversity in the fanbases certainly helps, but the series you're talking about do not have any diversity in them -- SSB and Chrono. They pretty much rely on solely one game to push them. I do not think the thought process of voters is going to be anything like what we have seen in the games contest. You are combining an entire series that allow for it to gather strength from. If someone like SSBM more than any singular Metal Gear Solid title, it does not mean they are going to like SSBM more than all of the Metal Gear Solid games put together. I cannot even fathom SSB beating out Metal Gear in a poll. It does not carry that kind of power. It beat Metal Gear Solid 2 with 56% -- and Metal Gear Solid 2 is likely not the strongest game in the series. It is entirely possible that Metal Gear Solid could potentially win, if not then make it a very close matchup. People are looking at this as if Metal Gear Solid 2 were the strongest game in the series. We really do not have an idea of where the strongest Metal Gear game is at. I even believe that Metal Gear Solid 2 is the weakest of the series, which would very much raise the power of the series in people's minds if we could see this data. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Some bloodlines must come to an end. |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 5/29/2006 4:52:09 PM | message detail |
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MGS lies in between those two, and I think it is closer to DMC than
it is to FF. Sure, there are opinions on what game is better, but you
aren't going to find too many people that like one game and don't care
for another at all (at least when relatively compared to a series like
FF). It is not going to beat a series like Final Fantasy or Mario or Zelda -- we know this already. The series in question are not diverse like this. And you would think that Chrono Trigger would share more of a fanbase with FFVII than MGS. Then add in that Chrono Cross isn't exactly a slouch in it's own regard, even though it's not talked abut much anymore. Actually, you could make the argument that Metal Gear Solid shares more of a fanbase with Final Fantasy VII purely for the fact that both were hit PlayStation titles, whereas Chrono Trigger was released during the end of the SNES days, and gathered a rather different fanbase. I actually do not believe there was much, if any, SFF in the match against Final Fantasy VII. There may have been, but I think Chrono Trigger held its own in such a way that makes me think that didn't occur. I really doubt Chrono Cross is contributing much to the "Chrono" series either. There were a large number of people who did not like it, particularly because it was so different from Chrono Trigger. I think Serge and Chrono Cross would perform about the same, and I don't think Serge would be very strong, though not complete fodder. There hasn't really been anything to show that Chrono Cross would be a strong contender in a contest. We've seen SSBM beat MGS2 about 57-43. As I said before, I don't think MGS as a series will make that much of a difference in its strength. Then there's The Boost, and the presence of more Nintendo fans on the site. Lastly, SSBB seals the deal. I think the Smash Bros series has become slightly more popular after that, with the buzz about who's going to be in the next. And I believe Metal Gear Solid would significantly close that gap. It beating Metal Gear Solid 2 says nothing about SSB beating Metal Gear as a series. Metal Gear Solid 2 is not the strongest game in the series, and it's completely possible it's the weakest entry in the series. I very much think Metal Gear as a series makes something like this completely different. There's almost no reason to think otherwise in a series contest. And SSBB generated buzz entirely because of Solid Snake. The trailer was nothing special, the announcement was only surprising because it was not made at the press conference, and there has been nothing really notable released about the game -- other than Solid Snake is a character in it. It does create discussion about other third party characters, but the character who jump started that came from Metal Gear. Metal Gear, on the other hand, has Metal Gear Solid 4 to help it. The trailer that was shown at E3 was absolutely amazing -- and everyone took notice. Hell, when Konami announced there would be a 15 minute trailer after their press conference, the site was killed because of so much traffic and constant refreshing. It was so bad they had to delay putting the trailer up until the next day. SSBB hardly seals the deal when MG had something far more impressive in its favor. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Some bloodlines must come to an end. |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 5/29/2006 4:52:50 PM | message detail |
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San Andreas trumps Vice City in popularity and beat MGS3 in the PS2
Game of the Year poll. San Andreas also finished only 3 spots behind
Metal Gear Solid on the Best Game Ever list, which speaks volumes for
something that is "only" supposed to be a game that appeals to casual.
All evidence points to the GTA fanbase on this site being larger than
the MGS fanbase. Err, where was it proven that San Andreas was more popular than Vice City? If anything, I would expect it to be of similar strength, and I would take MGS to beat VC in a heartbeat. On another note, both of these series are more "mature" and on the same platform as each other. It is very much possible that Metal Gear Solid and Grand Theft Auto have similar fans, though it's pretty pointless to bother arguing something like that. It is also notable that its characters have not maintained their popularity over time either. It's completely possible that the series itself may be the same way. Not something I want to argue, but just throwing it out there ... --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Some bloodlines must come to an end. |
| therealmnm | Posted 5/29/2006 4:54:32 PM | message detail |
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I just read the first couple of lines of HM's post and it already looks like he has no idea what I'm talking about. --- Nominate Carmen Sandiego for SC2k6 Currently playing: KH2, MGS3:S, GTA:SA, MMAC (wow, my PS2 is actually getting play!) |
| yoblazer33 | Posted 5/29/2006 4:56:38 PM | message detail |
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I'm not putting too much stock into this "people will take the whole
series into consideration" voting mentality (at least not yet). If
someone likes the Metal Gear Solid series but loves Chrono Trigger a
lot more than any single MGS game, my bet is they vote for the Chrono
series. --- Board 8: Where Wii treat each other right. |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 5/29/2006 5:00:41 PM | message detail |
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Pray tell, other than the Fall Top 100, which was a very unique
"contest," when was the last time SSB or anything from SSB disappointed
people in a contest setting? When has SSBM done anything to deserve the praise and influence it has gotten on here? It's major claim to fame was winning Division 128. I would like to point out in all of this that its major competitor was unjustly given the most biased picture I have had the displeasure of seeing. Other than that, we can reference Master Hand. That is the only unique SSB related item that is exclusively from that game. He went and proved to be utter fodder, too. Every other character comes from established franchises where they get the vast majority of their strength from. Mario is not an SSBM character; he is a Mario character. Link is not a SSB character; he is a Zelda character. Calling them anything else is just incorrect and giving far too much credit to SSB. It is not that SSB has been disappointing, except in the case of Master Hand; rather, it is the fact that it gets grossly exaggerated on both its strength and its influence on Nintendo related objects. It is certainly a strong game in the contest, but it does not under any circumstances deserve nearly the praise nor the strength that it receives here. When I read people actually considering SSBM as the reason for the Nintendo boost, there is a major problem. SSBM gets outsold monthly by both The Wind Waker and Super Mario Sunshine. It has sales that are more or less even with Super Mario Sunshine. Again, it is not that SSB disappoints, but it certainly gets exaggerated and overrated far too much from this topic at times. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Some bloodlines must come to an end. |
| Team Rocket Elite | Posted 5/29/2006 5:04:33 PM | message detail |
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It's major claim to fame was winning Division 128. Which was no easy task and it's not like it did poorly against FF7. Other than that, we can reference Master Hand. That is the only unique SSB related item that is exclusively from that game. Actually Master Hand does appear outside of SSBM in one of the Kirby games. --- Nominate Seiken Densetsu and Pokemon for GameFAQ's Best. Series. Ever. Contest!! www.gamefaqs.com/features/contest/contest_nominate.php |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 5/29/2006 5:06:57 PM | message detail |
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I'm not putting too much stock into this "people will take the whole
series into consideration" voting mentality (at least not yet). If
someone likes the Metal Gear Solid series but loves Chrono Trigger a
lot more than any single MGS game, my bet is they vote for the Chrono
series. I think they will fall under that line of thinking. When I take Final Fantasy to win the contest, it is not because of just Final Fantasy VII. If someone is considering taking The Legend of Zelda as a winner, they are going to assume that people are going to be voting for the series as a series, as opposed to just one individual game. If it "Chrono" v. "Metal Gear," I think people are going to vote for both of them as a series. Sonic the Hedgehog does not have any "elite" game in the contest, but I believe his series will be one of the strongest we'll see. Nothing is certain, though, so it is possible that they vote with a different mentality. I just think they'll be voting for the series as opposed to just one game in that series that they like. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Some bloodlines must come to an end. |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 5/29/2006 5:09:49 PM | message detail |
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Which was no easy task and it's not like it did poorly against FF7. It was certainly made easier by being given the entire Nintendo cast against Tidus, who isn't even FFX's strongest character. I think it was close enough to where a different picture could have produced a different outcome. It certainly didn't have an easy path, and I'm not saying it would be weaker, but I doubt people would hold it in such high regard if it hadn't won that division. Actually Master Hand does appear outside of SSBM in one of the Kirby games. I actually did not know that. But for the most part, he is known almost entirely from being the "final" boss in SSB. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Some bloodlines must come to an end. |
| therealmnm | Posted 5/29/2006 5:09:59 PM | message detail |
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HM, I'm not even going to bother to respond to that. It really looks
like you didn't even finish reading a paragraph before you started
responding. You start arguing points which I further explained in the
same paragraph. You start stating things that I've already stated
numerous time. I know
that MGS2 is probably the least popular MGS game. I've already touched
about what I think about SSBB and Solid Snake, yet you go and repeat
things already said in this topic. I've already stated what I think
about the whole "series" thing. Bottom line, I hope you don't think I'm
going to humor you by responding to your rant because I see no reason
why I should bother. And I can't help myself but: MGS lies in between those two, and I think it is closer to DMC than it is to FF. Sure, there are opinions on what game is better, but you aren't going to find too many people that like one game and don't care for another at all (at least when relatively compared to a series like FF). It is not going to beat a series like Final Fantasy or Mario or Zelda -- we know this already. The series in question are not diverse like this. That right there shows that you didn't even put together what I was saying before blindly responding to me. At what point was I talking about MGS beating FF, Mario, or Zelda? Basic reading comprehension skills. I know you have them . =P --- Nominate Carmen Sandiego for SC2k6 Currently playing: KH2, MGS3:S, GTA:SA, MMAC (wow, my PS2 is actually getting play!) |
| Lopen | Posted 5/29/2006 5:11:00 PM | message detail |
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Think of it this way... (you can substitute CT here if you like for
melee... I'm just using Melee because we have a direct match to
reference) Okay, Metal Gear Solid 2 got about 43% on Super Smash Brothers Melee alone. I doubt that many people (but some will) are gonna vote against Melee if they like it more than every Metal Gear Solid game, but you can't say that all of there aren't gonna be many people who have this as their "internal ranking": MGS > SSBM > MGS2 or MGS3 > SSBM > MGS2 or hell... even a few old schoolers... Metal Gear > SSBM > MGS2 (what?) And as such, SSBM will lose votes to those two. In a series like MGS where the fanbase seems to disagree so much about which one is the best, I think it'll get a significant boost. (As opposed to Chrono or SSB, where people almost unanimously prefer Trigger or Melee respectively) I think the Metal Gear Solid series's fanbase is disjointed enough to make up for this gap. --- Raiden is still [!!] nominations short! http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs9/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=27664244 |
| RPGuy96 | Posted 5/29/2006 5:16:19 PM | message detail |
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I don't think we can say how voters are going to make decisions in general...I'm not even sure how I'm
going to make decisions. For example, in Chrono/Metal Gear I'd probably
vote Chrono, even though all three MGS are on my Top 100 (#18, 95, and
33) and I hate CC, just because CT is my fourth favorite game. However,
I'd vote the Super Mario series over Chrono even though I don't like
any one Mario game as much as CT...In that respect, my series
preferences mirror my character tastes, but I think that's more of a
coincidence than anything else. It's certainly not unfathomable that someone can enjoy CT more than any MGS game, but still like all three MGS, and vote the for the Chrono series...and the other way works, too. Quantity (MM, Sonic) vs Quality (SSB, Chrono) isn't something we can really answer. --- Mustache...and green... http://www.rit.edu/~zmb0386/NintendoDesktop2.jpg |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 5/29/2006 5:17:58 PM | message detail |
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HM, I'm not even going to bother to respond to that. It really looks
like you didn't even finish reading a paragraph before you started
responding. I read each individual paragraph and responded to them accordingly. It is something I have a habit of doing, but I did later find, as read more, that you clarified certain bits. You start stating things that I've already stated numerous time. I know that MGS2 is probably the least popular MGS game. I've already touched about what I think about SSBB and Solid Snake, yet you go and repeat things already said in this topic. I did not read further into the topic past your own little rant. If you said something outside of that, then I did not read it. I haven't even caught up to the entire topic yet. The last post I read from before was yoblazer's on SSB and being overrated. I do check the last posts, though, to see if anyone responded to something more recent. That right there shows that you didn't even put together what I was saying before blindly responding to me. At what point was I talking about MGS beating FF, Mario, or Zelda? Basic reading comprehension skills. I know you have them . It was not that I thought you meant anything about beating Final Fantasy; rather, I was just saying that even if you believe it does not have that diversity, it is not like it is going up against series that have diversity. SSB and Chrono are more or less a series that is going to get votes based upon one game. The fact that MGS does have a bit of diversity, even if only a little, certainly helps it out against two franchises like those. And a day's worth of swimming has tired me out! The brain may not work at its maximum capability until I get some sleep!! --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Some bloodlines must come to an end. |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 5/29/2006 5:21:17 PM | message detail |
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I pretty much agree with the entirety of RPGuy's post. It appears
that the entire argument comes down to what kind of mentality you think
the voters are going to have. Depending on what side you're on could
have a lot of do with how you think one series would do against
another. Yeah. I wish we could get a bracket ... (I just had to slip it in!) --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Some bloodlines must come to an end. |
| Slowflake | Posted 5/29/2006 5:23:02 PM | message detail |
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Come to think of it, that's pretty much the same argument as an
eventual tag team contest. We could get some insight on the voters'
mentality when confronted to that kind of choice if we ever have this
contest. --- Also, eat from garbage cans as much as possible, because nobody in America ever throws away anything that can make you fat. -MYC health tip |
| therealmnm | Posted 5/29/2006 5:23:13 PM | message detail |
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I think the Metal Gear Solid series's fanbase is disjointed enough to make up for this gap. True enough. It's debatable at the very least. I've already pondered your example before I even posted that first argument and know exactly where you are coming from. Of course there are going to be people that think like that, but I personally don't think it's enough to bridge the gap. It can go either way though. It's definitely not a given like some people think it is... --- Nominate Carmen Sandiego for SC2k6 Currently playing: KH2, MGS3:S, GTA:SA, MMAC (wow, my PS2 is actually getting play!) |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 5/29/2006 5:26:20 PM | message detail |
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You just wait and see!! --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Some bloodlines must come to an end. |
| jonthomson | Posted 5/29/2006 5:27:24 PM | message detail |
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Mildly interesting Vice City/San Andreas comparisons, taken off a "best
game ever" poll which I made on a large site which ought to reflect
casuals well (from July last year): Vice City - #5 San Andreas - #8 GTA3 - #15 All below Melee FWIW. And all above any MGS game. --- Jon Thomson - CATS, Jay Solano, Ridley, Scorpion, Alien Hominid, Duke Nukem, The Prince, Johnny Rocketfingers, two TBA |
| Lopen | Posted 5/29/2006 5:29:11 PM | message detail |
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Peh. You shouldn't have to say "think" or "in my opinion" to get that across. I really doubt most people in here think it's stone-cold fact that MGS will beat SSB. I mean we aren't at "Vincent will easily double Dante" levels of overlooking here. I'm not quite counting SSB out, but would I say SSB is the underdog going into such a match? Absolutely. I don't think SSB gains much at all from it's "series", or Chrono Trigger. But many series, primarily the ones where's it's debated which is the best, will. 14% really isn't too large a gap to make up. (or probably around 20% as it would be for CT) --- Raiden is still [!!] nominations short! http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs9/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=27664244 |
| WilhuffTarkin | Posted 5/29/2006 5:38:44 PM | message detail |
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Ugh. That's a lame poll result (no offense intended). GTA3 is CLEARLY better than Vice City or San Andreas. --- Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin Favorite game ever: Super Mario 64 |
| SquallidSnake | Posted 5/29/2006 5:38:51 PM | message detail |
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What's this? Talk of Robotnik/Master Hand SFF? Gimme a break! Ganondorf/Robotnik SFF talk I can take seriously, but come on now. THIS is what I mean when I say people love to overrate anything from Smash Brothers. Honestly, the highest I could entertain moving Sin up (since he's within a percent of Robotnik) is Lavos, who is about 2% higher. Robotnik is not a well-liked character. I believe he won the "Which Sonic Adventure character do you like the least?" poll rather easily, if I recall correctly. I wouldn't take him over Wily, that's for sure, who's a few percent above Lavos. Either way, Master Hand ends up as bad fodder. And I've already stated that SSB is certainly capable of beating MGS, and I'm not sure where either of them will place. I just have SERIOUS doubts that Smash Brothers can contend for the 4th strongest series. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Knowing your enemy is the quickest path to victory. |
| WilhuffTarkin | Posted 5/29/2006 5:39:12 PM | message detail |
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Oh- with the one exception of GTA3 not having motorcycles. --- Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin Favorite game ever: Super Mario 64 |
| therealmnm | Posted 5/29/2006 5:44:29 PM | message detail |
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HM, I'm just peeved at the fact that your initial response in your
first 3 paragraphs showed that you didn't even read the whole thing, or
at least put together what I was saying. I never at any point said that
MGS wouldn't be stronger as a series. In fact, that was the reason
behind my whole example using FF and Devil May Cry. To clarify that, I think that a "series" has two ends of a spectrum. Final Fantasy is at one end. It has many games, and the most popular ones have a distinct fanbase. That should be clear enough. I placed Devil May Cry at the other end of the spectrum. People may like one game over the other, but as I said, there isn't a Devil May Cry 3 fanbase vs. a Devil May Cry fanbase. The whole point is that Devil May Cry as a series probably isn't going to be much more popular than it's individual strongest game, while I think FF theoretically should be much stronger than it's strongest game due to it's diversity (although because FFVII is so high, it might not have much room to increase. Mario would have had a better example. And I said that Metal Gear Solid is probably closer to DMC on that spectrum than it is to FF as far as fanbases go. That is the reason why I brought up MGS2/SSBM. The fact that both FF and DMC have games that are disliked is irrelevant in my point because DMC2 doesn't separate the fanbase like it is for games like FFVIII and FFIX. As for SSB and Chrono's diversity, I'd already stated that I think the sheer popularity of their most popular games holds more weight than the others as a series. So their diversity had nothing to do with my argument. There are a few more things you pointed out that had either already been touched on or said before, so it got kinda annoying especially since it's not the first time you've stepped into the middle of a debate and done that... :-/ As already stated, the debate is basically how people view popular games vs. a series as a whole. --- Nominate Carmen Sandiego for SC2k6 Currently playing: KH2, MGS3:S, GTA:SA, MMAC (wow, my PS2 is actually getting play!) |
| therealmnm | Posted 5/29/2006 5:58:02 PM | message detail |
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And I've already stated that SSB is certainly capable of beating
MGS, and I'm not sure where either of them will place. I just have
SERIOUS doubts that Smash Brothers can contend for the 4th strongest
series. If this were a Top 10 Series Ever type of contest where people put in their top favorite series as they did last fall, then yes, SSB definitely would not be the 4th most popular series. But in a voting-style contest, there's no reason why it couldn't beat a Metal Gear Solid and GTA. MGS may be popular on this site, but there are plenty of people that don't care for the series. And the Nintendo fanbase is about as far away as you can get from MGS when compared to the other series in discussion. SSB is going to get its votes against MGS. So even if MGS does win, it's not going to be easy for it. SSB does have it's fans regardless of how overrated some people think it is. Now how SSB fares against another Nintendo series is an entirely different story... --- Nominate Carmen Sandiego for SC2k6 Currently playing: KH2, MGS3:S, GTA:SA, MMAC (wow, my PS2 is actually getting play!) |
| LeonhartForever | Posted 5/29/2006 5:59:38 PM | message detail |
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I don't think it'd be an easy win for either series, I agree to that much. --- SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Roxas, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden |
| Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 5/29/2006 6:07:20 PM | message detail |
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I understand more what you're saying, but I just don't necessarily agree with it. As already stated, the debate is basically how people view popular games vs. a series as a whole. Pretty much. There should be a lot of disagreements concerning many matches because of that, I think. Moreso than usual anyway. --- Some stories can't be told by words. Some legends are meant to die. Some bloodlines must come to an end. |
| FastFalcon05 | Posted 5/29/2006 6:14:48 PM | message detail |
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And last I checked, Master Hand is the only SSB-exclusive thing
we've seen in a character contest, and he sucked hard. Yes, he beat
Kuja, but he was still pathetic. Heck, it would've gotten owned by the
fin of the main villain of the game that Melee beat in the Spring
Contest. And I wonder how much we'd be talking about the game's "power"
if there were a balanced picture against FFX and it had narrowly lost
instead of narrowly winning. I don't know if anyone's said anything about this in the last few posts, but I haven't seen any antipicture talk in a while. Pictures rarely matter and when they do they matter minimally. It's just a picture; people on this site already know ssbm and ffx= a biased ffx picture wasn't going to turn the match. --- Revenge is a dish best served cold. ~ Old Klingon Proverb |