And pray tell, Smurf, who would YOU have in place of these characters? Could you come up with something constructive in the way of nominations?

I'm glad you asked! ^_^

Ike (Fire Emblem Rep. minus the SSBM).

Fox McCloud (Because it's ****** insane if he's not in it)

A Pokemon (Same as above)

Ecco The Dolphin (Retro glory, a game loved by many. A true rep of the Genesis. Something fresh.)

Laguna/Seifer (Both of them have potential to be near squall but could also possibly be fodder, Kuja still. Unpredictable positioning FTW.)

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His only constant is his unpredictability.
Zidane Tribal

How can you tell me no one cares about her?

...Because I know very few people who do who aren't Mario 2 fans.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

*sees a Pokemon and Ecco the friggin' Dolphin*

...
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

Until Super Street Fighter II when Capcom finally started giving them different move sets, they were more identical fighters than Sub-Zero and Scorpion are. But either way, giving this particular argument and flat-out ignoring Ryu/Ken is ludicrous. People DO know the difference, and Mortal Kombat IS still a rather popular series, believe it or not. Don't let what board 8 thinks about it lead you astray.

They at least look markedly different; they don't have the same identical body frame, at any rate. Either way, you're right in saying this is trivial. I admit people know the difference, I contend it doesn't matter much.
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Revenge is a dish best served cold. ~ Old Klingon Proverb

*sees a Pokemon and Ecco the friggin' Dolphin*

Unlike yourself, I'm not "wowed" by a sullen guy swinging a sword around.

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His only constant is his unpredictability.
Zidane Tribal

Hardcore? I don't think so. Scorpion got 35% on Auron. Whether Peach can beat Sub-Zero depends on where they actually would end up in strength, but I can tell you now I would expect Peach to be able to do better than 35% on Auron. As for Sub, I don't personally think he'll be much better than Scorp. If he does perform a lot better, then you have a point, and Sub can beat Peach. But right now, it seems to me that Peach would win. She doesn't need to be in the title of her series, she's very visible in the Mario series, especially in all of the side games. And Peach is getting her own game with her name in the title, though it probably won't mean much.
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Xbox 360 melts disks!
And people made jokes about the PS3 being a grill. ~bokunokuso

Fox belongs in, and will make the field? the rest.... yikes.
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xyzzy

Smurf, you've just earned eternal hate from anyone with a brain cell.

And stop throwing Mario 2 at me. It doesn't change my stance, as it has no relevance to my stance. Peach's popularity is not based on her playability (or lack thereof). Fans can like NPCs. Like that Sephiroth dude. I hear a lot of people like him.
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Xbox 360 melts disks!
And people made jokes about the PS3 being a grill. ~bokunokuso

Smurf, you've just earned eternal hate from anyone with a brain cell.

Well the important thing is that we're cool. ^_^
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His only constant is his unpredictability.
Zidane Tribal

I would take Sub-Zero over Peach without even thinking about it. The rest...I'd have to think about. But I don't think Peach would be that strong. People don't really care about her, unless they're Mario 2 players. I would probably put her below Donkey Kong and maybe even Fox McCloud. She'd probably be around Ness, I guess. She should be able to beat him, at least.

I don't think that's true. Peach is as important to her series as Zelda hers, even if, in general, the Mario series isn't as "serious"/plot driven" as the Zelda series. Peach deserves to be seen in this contest; I bet she could take Subzero. Peach isn't just the kidnapped princess; she has done some stuff, smrpg, smb2, the paper marios, her upcoming ds game, plus all the other obvious ones, sports games, ssb, etc. But her ds game is really in her favor, this year is probably the best for her to make an appearance. Also, the new super mario brothers (odds are >_>) will involve her getting captured, so that's only good for her popularity, too.
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Revenge is a dish best served cold. ~ Old Klingon Proverb

Unlike yourself, I'm not "wowed" by a sullen guy swinging a sword around.

Except that's got nothing to do with anything. Ecco the Dolphin would do worse than Earthworm Jim. Heck, Vectorman would probably do better than Ecco.

Also, I bring up Mario 2 because it's the only game where I see anyone would care about Peach. I personally don't think Zelda would be quite as popular if she hadn't been Sheik in OoT. Peach hasn't had a role quite like that. Zelda HAS been more than the typical damsel in distress. Peach...really hasn't.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

Smurf called Knuckles > Magus. Bow down.
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HELP! THIS IS THE REAL YOBLAZER. I'M BEING HELD HOSTAGE. SEND HELP TO MMFF*muffled struggling*

Another thing about Peach that I would like to stress--no one, NO ONE has ever mistaken Mario for Peach. I know people that to this day call Link 'Zelda'.
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Please, nominate Aeris Gainsborough for SC2k6:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=26571751

hey guys no fighting

http://www.retstak.org/images/autumn%20pretty%20kitty%201.jpg
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<3

Oh right, and Super Mario RPG as well. But...Peach as important to Mario as Zelda is to her series? Eh...Even so, it doesn't guarantee her to being anywhere close to that level.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

Zelda HAS been more than the typical damsel in distress. Peach...really hasn't.

She's in all of the Mario side series, so she can get people to like her through those. Mainly as playing as her. Her pitching in Mario Superstar Baseball is so awesome that she's now one of my main characters to use. It's stuff like that can help her. It's not like she's done anything to make Mario fans hate her.
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Xbox 360 melts disks!
And people made jokes about the PS3 being a grill. ~bokunokuso

Smurf called Knuckles > Magus. Bow down.

Yeah, and HaRRicH and I called it in multiple 500th posts during the SC2K5 contest, using nearly as much logic as he did.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

Except that's got nothing to do with anything. Ecco the Dolphin would do worse than Earthworm Jim. Heck, Vectorman would probably do better than Ecco.

That's quite the baseless claim you've got there.
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His only constant is his unpredictability.
Zidane Tribal

Peach would lose to Subby. Hardcore.

I would have no problems taking Peach over Sub-Zero without feeling the least bit worried.

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"I haven't invested as much time into any game as I have [Twilight Princess]." -- Shigeru Miyamoto

Another thing about Peach that I would like to stress--no one, NO ONE has ever mistaken Mario for Peach. I know people that to this day call Link 'Zelda'.

Just a rephrasing of the "It's not called Legend of Peach" argument. And it doesn't go against me, because I never said Peach would be as strong as Zelda.
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Xbox 360 melts disks!
And people made jokes about the PS3 being a grill. ~bokunokuso

Yeah, and HaRRicH and I called it in multiple 500th posts during the SC2K5 contest, using nearly as much logic as he did.

So... both of us should recieve worship?
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His only constant is his unpredictability.
Zidane Tribal

The irony of your statement is delicious. Either way, Earthworm Jim always was more popular than Ecco, and he's had a game MUCH more recently than Ecco has. He's got no business being in the contest. Neither does ANY Pokemon save perhaps Mewtwo.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

speaking of which - HM, do you have F-Zero sales numbers by chance?

F-Zero on the SNES? Yeah. It sold 1.42 million copies in America and 2.85 million worldwide.

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"I haven't invested as much time into any game as I have [Twilight Princess]." -- Shigeru Miyamoto

The thing is...even if Mario's games were called 'Super Peach Bros.' and if people thought Mario's name was Peach by the fistful...she'd still be a good deal weaker than Zelda, because Link >>>>>>> Mario. Now, you factor that in, along with all the other intangibles that you take away...and you have someone who is in all liklihood a LOT weaker.
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Please, nominate Aeris Gainsborough for SC2k6:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=26571751

Either way, Earthworm Jim always was more popular than Ecco .

You are basing that on nothing. If you're talking about gaming standards. Ecco was second only to Sonic on the Genesis and one of the stars of the era. The game described as "art". Ecco would....... I'm not finish that statement, because baseless statements are worthless. Ecco would be unpredictable, which is what this contest needs.

Neither does ANY Pokemon save perhaps Mewtwo.

One of the biggest series of all time needs to be represented.

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His only constant is his unpredictability.
Zidane Tribal

Representation of 'big series' is what leads to chumps like Lara Croft and Crash Bandicoot wasting air. Pokemon has had its shot over three contests, I want to see something new.
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Please, nominate Aeris Gainsborough for SC2k6:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=26571751

The thing is...even if Mario's games were called 'Super Peach Bros.' and if people thought Mario's name was Peach by the fistful...she'd still be a good deal weaker than Zelda, because Link >>>>>>> Mario

So looking at that, Ganon >>>>>>> Bowser.

Oh wait.
---
Xbox 360 melts disks!
And people made jokes about the PS3 being a grill. ~bokunokuso

If I used that calculator correctly, it seems he dropped from 2k3 to 2k4, he wasn't even in last year, so what I was suggesting was that Scorpions most recent value could be too high (to guage sub) just to year by year dropping.

Scorpion was also behind Auron/Seph in 2k4, which never got adjusted for.


[Smurf's choices]

Besides Fox and potentially Laguna/Seifer, you're wrong on all counts.


Unlike yourself, I'm not "wowed" by a sullen guy swinging a sword around.

*looks at Clinkeroth*

...sword-swinging seems to be a popular trend for strong characters.


Smurf called Knuckles > Magus. Bow down.

I called afew upsets myself...though I like the sarcasm, heh.


Yeah, and HaRRicH and I called it in multiple 500th posts during the SC2K5 contest, using nearly as much logic as he did.

*high five*

I'll give Smurf credit in that he had it in his bracket though.


You are basing that on nothing. If you're talking about gaming standards. Ecco was second only to Sonic on the Genesis and one of the stars of the era.

I'd call EWJ a bigger star on the Genesis than Ecco was, and EWJ games were on the SNES too (I won't bring out their 3D games here).
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Miss my Four-Pack Of Fun? Go here:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=585007

Except Bowser has actually done something in the Mario series to set him apart from a typical villain role, something Peach really can't say. If he played the same role as Ganon does in Zelda...damn right Ganon would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bowser.
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Please, nominate Aeris Gainsborough for SC2k6:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=26571751

...so...you're saying that Bowser is more of a villain than Ganon is? Because I don't understand what you're saying.
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Xbox 360 melts disks!
And people made jokes about the PS3 being a grill. ~bokunokuso

No, he's saying that Bowser has more appeal than "Hey, I'm the main bad guy of the Mario series!"
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

I'm saying that Bowser is less of a leech than Ganon. He has his own character, his own personality. He has incredible humor, dialogue, and a dynamic between the characters in the Mario universe that is unparalleled by Ganon. He is playable in something other than SSB/M. In short, more people like Bowser for who he is rather than the series he comes from than Ganon. Plain and simple.
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Please, nominate Aeris Gainsborough for SC2k6:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=26571751

Representation of 'big series' is what leads to chumps like Lara Croft and Crash Bandicoot wasting air.

Chumps? Just because you don't like them, doesn't make them chumps.
They did a lot for gaming and produced some of the finest games out there. It's stupid to hate characters because they have mainstream appeal.
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His only constant is his unpredictability.
Zidane Tribal

I think the next step, TRE, is to create a Stat topic "index" of sorts. With entries like

Stats 3 - creativename invents the "X-Stats."
...
Stats 157 - Kefka tries to cheat his way to victory against Tommy.

and so forth. I'm not sure if you have a rough sketch of an outline for the topics now... if not, we could make a topic, and people could help by looking through the topics and posting about the interesting tidbits in each.

Also, we need to develop some kind of search functionality.

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"lol x-stats" - The Contest Simulator: http://thengamer.com/xstats
Ngamer's Contest Archives: http://thengamer.com/gamefaqs/

So...if Ganon becomes a badass villain in TP...he'd kill Bowser like Link killed Mario? I wouldn't agree with that one either. Peach/Zelda, Bowser/Ganon, and Link/Mario are all different situations. And I never said Peach would be as strong as Zelda, yet the comparision keeps coming up. Just because Peach hasn't done as much as Zelda doesn't mean she can't be strong. After all, how much has Ganon done, and look how strong he is. Fanbase leeching IS effective.
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Xbox 360 melts disks!
And people made jokes about the PS3 being a grill. ~bokunokuso

I'm not calling them chumps for having mainstream appeal, I'm calling them chumps because they're the lowest of the low fodder around.

Max Payne has tons of mainstream appeal, is my 6th favorite character, and he's a chump too. I don't like it, but them's the breaks.
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Please, nominate Aeris Gainsborough for SC2k6:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=26571751

Now I remember why I used to dislike Smurf so much. And you know what, if Shadow gets back into this contest, it'll be the same exact ****, except with pro Shadow stuff. **** it, I'm not nominating him anymore.

---
Explicit Content
Cheer Up Emo Kids

Lara finished 37th in 2003. How is that lowest of the low.
>_<

That's midcarder.
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His only constant is his unpredictability.
Zidane Tribal

Now I remember why I used to dislike Smurf so much. And you know what, if Shadow gets back into this contest, it'll be the same exact ****, except with pro Shadow stuff. **** it, I'm not nominating him anymore.

You dislike me because I'm not a sheep who follows the beliefs of the above poster? It's because of my open mindedness that I have a fairly successful bracket every year.

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His only constant is his unpredictability.
Zidane Tribal

From: yoblazer33 | Posted: 2/28/2006 6:25:45 PM | Message Detail
Smurf called Knuckles > Magus. Bow down.

To be fair, he probably would have called Amy ****ing Rose > Magus.

---
Explicit Content
Cheer Up Emo Kids

So...if Ganon becomes a badass villain in TP...he'd kill Bowser like Link killed Mario? I wouldn't agree with that one either. Peach/Zelda, Bowser/Ganon, and Link/Mario are all different situations. And I never said Peach would be as strong as Zelda, yet the comparision keeps coming up. Just because Peach hasn't done as much as Zelda doesn't mean she can't be strong. After all, how much has Ganon done, and look how strong he is. Fanbase leeching IS effective.

There is a difference. I'm not talking about Ganon being a badass villain, as he's arguably at that state already. I'm talking about him being more. I want Ganondorf to have character beyond simple archetypes of good and evil (Wind Waker has a *few* instances of this, but it's hardly enough). I want Ganondorf to have more personality than just a generic evil last boss villain. If he can set himself apart like Bowser did, then yeah, I can see him being far above Bowser.

And while Ganon's leeching may be effective, remember that he is also the villain of the Zelda series despite said leeching (Malon wouldn't come close to Ganon, after all). Peach is both a peripheral character AND doesn't have the advantages Zelda has. It doesn't inspire much faith, really.
---
Please, nominate Aeris Gainsborough for SC2k6:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=26571751

Lara finished 37th in 2003. How is that lowest of the low.
>_<

That's midcarder.

Let's look at Lara's most recent appearance, shall we?

53rd, below Laharl and barely above Gordon Freeman?

Also, Crash Bandicoot did WORSE against Master Chief than CATS did BEFORE Halo 2.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

I personally could see Sub-Zero being a wildcard for the contest.

Easily stronger than lower midcarders like Shadow or Knuckles, but should be able to match somebody like Alucard or Kirby!

Heck! He could be even stronger and challenge some of the near nobles like Sonic or Master Chief!

The lower nobles such as Magus and Zero will have no trouble, though.

*nods idiotically*
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Smurf, the cream of Sonic fanboyism.

Let's look at Lara's most recent appearance, shall we?

I try not to judge a character off a single match. Especially one where she was playing an inconsistent Samus.
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Smurf, the cream of Sonic fanboyism.

So...if Ganon becomes a badass villain in TP...

Well, he already is a badass villain, it's just some people have problems seeing the obvious.

But, I would say that Ganon, after Twilight Princess, will indeed stretch the distance betwee he and Bowser. Though I think it would be stupid to say that it would be monstrous blowout between the two.



On Peach, I do not why people keep wanting to compare her to Zelda. It is obvious that she will not be that strong, but to imply she would be weak is just stupidity. She will have strength, definitely enough to take care of someone like Sub-Zero. She has been playable in quite a few games, she just recently got her own game on the Nintendo DS, and she comes from the Mario series. I don't know how she wouldn't have some nice solid strength to her. I have no idea where this idea comes up that no one cares about Peach enough to vote for her. She may not be the favorite of a lot of people, but Zelda is not a favorite of people in The Legend of Zelda series either.

The long history she has, the multiple games where she is playable, the fact that she comes from the Mario franchise, and she just got her first starring role in a Nintendo platformer all tells me she would have a good deal of strength. She would not be a powerhouse, but easily above the level of fodder and able to win a match or two against people.

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"I haven't invested as much time into any game as I have [Twilight Princess]." -- Shigeru Miyamoto

No, because you're a tool and a troll.

You're the one namecalling, buddy.
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Smurf, the cream of Sonic fanboyism.

I still can't see the logic behind putting PoP and Nightmare over Peach. PoP isn't even a big series, and no Soul Calibur character has ever established themselves as a fan favorite (besides...ya know...Link).
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Xbox 360 melts disks!
And people made jokes about the PS3 being a grill. ~bokunokuso

I wouldn't take Prince of Persia or Nightmare over Peach, myself. Nightmare, especially. I do not expect anything out of him.

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"I haven't invested as much time into any game as I have [Twilight Princess]." -- Shigeru Miyamoto

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]