Part two.



*Creativename's websites*

Everything you could ever imagine:
http://www.sc2k5.com
http://www.sc2k4.com

Sortable Table for Every Contest Match:
http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/19



*Extrapolated Standings*

Explanation of Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/11

Simple Explanation of Extrapolated Standings:
A = Strongest Character
B = Character Weaker than A
C = Character Weaker than B
To figure out a character's Xsts Percentage ---> [(CvB)(BvA)]/50 = CvA
To compare how C would do against B ---> [(CvA)/(BvA)]*50 = CvB
To figure out how B would do against A ---> [(CvA)/(CvB)]*50 = BvA

Summer 2002 Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/13

Summer 2003 Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/14

Spring 2004 Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/15

SFF Adjusted Spring 2004 Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/16

Summer 2004 Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/17

SFF Adjusted Summer 2004 Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/18

Spring 2005 Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/27

SFF Adjusted Summer 2005 Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/33

Summer 2005 Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/32

All Time Extrapolated Standings:
http://www.freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/alltimexstats.htm



*Solarshadow's Sites*

Summer 2002 Contest:
http://solarshadow2002.tripod.com

Summer 2003 Contest:
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/2003/index.html

Spring 2004 Contest: (not currently updating)
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/sp2004/index.html



*Old Stats topics*

Summer 2002 Contest:
http://solarshadow2002.tripod.com/page1.html

Summer 2003 Contest:
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/archive/topic1p1.html
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/sum_contest/Page1.htm (See note)

2003-2004 Off-Season:
http://membres.lycos.fr/shindohikaru/stats1.htm (See note)
Note: Don't use the links in the topic to browse through the pages, change the page number in the URL.

Spring 2004 Pre-Season (Chance the number after "Season" to view other pages; there are three of them):
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringPreSeason1.htm

Spring 2004 Contest (Change the number after "Stats" to view other pages; there are eight of them):
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats1.htm



*Match Pictures*

All the match pics, save for three from 2002:
http://www.sc2k5.com/gallery/index.php



*Miscellaneous*

Creativename's Page of Links:
http://sc2k4.com/links.php

UltimaterializerX's Contest Sites:
http://prophetchallenge.hyperboards2.com/index.cgi
http://www.freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/

NGamer64's 2003 Archives (some offensive language):
http://www.thengamer.com/gamefaqs/03Summer/GanonVSMagusUpdates.txt
http://www.thengamer.com/gamefaqs/03Summer/MarioVSCronoUpdates.txt
http://www.thengamer.com/gamefaqs/03Summer/TommyVsDKupdates.txt
http://www.thengamer.com/gamefaqs/03Summer/03SummerEarlyVoteTotals.txt

A List of Acronyms, A Lesson on Percentages, and Some Odd Matches:
http://www.freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/acronymspercentsanomalies.htm

All Time Top 25/Top 10 Lists *UPDATED*:
http://www.rpgdl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3251



!yawA tsoP
---
Miss my Four-Pack Of Fun? Go here:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=585007

Did the other topic purge?
---
"I was trying to escape. Obviously, it didn't work." - President Bush

Yeah
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There are 2 rules to being a success in life: 1. Never give out all the information.

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=26270889

Yep.
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Miss my Four-Pack Of Fun? Go here:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=585007

Dang!

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I thought lolicon would mean LOL ICON as in Lol internet - XIII is cool
*is raytan7585*

Wow.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

That sucks...
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Gamefaqs married to Ulti on 12/31/05. How romantic!
Detective in Sir Chris' Police

how many times has this happened?
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this is Voltch

I don't think it ever happened outside of the very first topic.
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Miss my Four-Pack Of Fun? Go here:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=585007

Wow, I'm very disappointed in us. But on the other hand, how long can we go on talking about nothing?

End this offseason, CJay! End it!


Oh, here's something to spice things up. I've inserted an error screen into xstats, to keep people from pitting identical characters against each other. That ought to stop the tomfoolery cold!

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"lol x-stats" - The Contest Simulator: http://thengamer.com/xstats
Ngamer's Contest Archives: http://thengamer.com/gamefaqs/

FYI, I'm just now about to play with the Contest Simulator. I'll comment shortly.
---
Miss my Four-Pack Of Fun? Go here:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=585007

Purge...? *sigh*
---
Take a hike, and don't forget the trail mix *****. Hijack - MC Chris
Detective in Sir Chris' Police

I welcome suggestions for improvements. I'm going to put lolx on the backburner for a bit to finish some other stuff, but I'll come back to it soon enough.

---
"lol x-stats" - The Contest Simulator: http://thengamer.com/xstats
Ngamer's Contest Archives: http://thengamer.com/gamefaqs/

Okay, now that the Nomination Rally tournament is over, let's talk about the winners, since that's about the only thing we've got worth discussing until a contest is announced.

For those who aren't aware, the five chosen characters were The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, and Raiden. I'll begin by asking a few questions about the characters in general:

1. How would you rank them in order of strength?
2. Who is the strongest character you would take each character over?
3. What seed do you foresee each character getting, should they make it in?
4. Which character(s) would you like to see each character face in a contest match?
5. How does this group compare to last year's five (Ocelot, Tifa, Leon Kennedy, Kerrigan, Lloyd)? Did we get a better selection this year?

Now for individual questions:

The Prince of Persia - Do you think he'll be stronger or weaker than Kratos from God of War?

Nightmare - Are there any other fighting game characters that have yet to be in a contest that you would rank above him? Was he the best possible representative from Soul Calibur (Link doesn't count...).

Sub-Zero - The obvious one: How far above or below Scorpion do you think he'll be? Would you take him in a direct match against Ken?

Captain Falcon - In a direct match against Ness, who would get SFF'd, if anyone did? Are there any other characters who draw most of their power from Super Smash Brothers who would do better than Falcon OR Ness?

Raiden - Will the lack of exposure since MGS2 hurt him? In other words, was his potential strength higher in 2003 than it is now? Also, will he be stronger than Liquid and/or Ocelot? Would he beat either head-to-head?
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

Now for individual questions:

The Prince of Persia - Do you think he'll be stronger or weaker than Kratos from God of War?

I think he will be a little weaker, but still a good mid tier.

Nightmare - Are there any other fighting game characters that have yet to be in a contest that you would rank above him? Was he the best possible representative from Soul Calibur (Link doesn't count...).

Nope, no one. All the popular Street Fighter guys have already made it once, and I doubt any GG, KOF, MK or Tekken character would even get 40% on him.

Sub-Zero - The obvious one: How far above or below Scorpion do you think he'll be? Would you take him in a direct match against Ken?

He would beat Scorpion, but he still wouldn't get 38% on Auron.

Captain Falcon - In a direct match against Ness, who would get SFF'd, if anyone did? Are there any other characters who draw most of their power from Super Smash Brothers who would do better than Falcon OR Ness?

Falcon.

Raiden - Will the lack of exposure since MGS2 hurt him? In other words, was his potential strength higher in 2003 than it is now? Also, will he be stronger than Liquid and/or Ocelot? Would he beat either head-to-head?

He would be stronger than in 2003, but I would pci Pac-Man over him.

---
Do you like Tails and want him in the next summer contest? Post here:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=565713&topic=26517520

It's HaRRicH's fault! Any sort of discussion that would have taken place in this topic now has migrated to the Four Pack of Fun board! He's planted a seed of dissension and it's sabotaged the stats topic! Yeah... <_<

Anyways, I'll just repost what I said on that board.

1.Captain Falcon actually has the most potential to be the strongest as he has the most to draw out of. People try to compare him to the other superstars in his game. But if you take SSBM by itself as the popular fighting game that it is, Falcon has plenty to draw from. And it's not like he is some random character like Marth in SSBM. He got considerable exposure in the first game and now people actually know where he's from. Plus, he's actually popular in the game... it's not like people don't care about him. Plus F-Zero is a decent series, and Falcon even has the F-Zero TV show under his belt. All in all, there's no way I can believe that Falcon is weaker than Ness.

I actually think Nightmare is the WEAKEST out of the group, although my opinion might not be exactly popular. Everything I've seen about Nightmare since his name's been brought up is that since Soul Calibur is relatively popular, that one of its characters MUST be popular. And that Nightmare assumedly is the most popular character in the game. The snowball's been rolling ever since. I think he has the most potential to be overrated out of all of these characters. Sure Soul Calibur is popular, but it's contest strength is based on Starcraft. Second, I don' tthink Soul Calibur's popularity will necessarily relate to character popularity. Nightmare isn't to his series as a character like Ryu is to Street Fighter and Sub-Zero is to Mortal Kombat. Soul Calibur is more popular simply for it's gameplay methinks. He wouldn't be fodder mind you. I just think he's weaker than the others.

As for the rest? I think Sub-Zero is the strongest, although I think Falcon can give him a good run. Prince of Persia is also right there. Based on how Kratos (GoW) perform, I'm pretty sure Prince of Persia would surpass his performance since his series is popular and he has the namesake, although GoW may be more popular than any individual PoP game. Raiden? I'm not really a fan of MGS2. Due to all the hype and fanboyism on this board, I was underwhelmed when I finally got to playing through it. I still agree that he is stronger than his match against Snake shows.

Overall, I'd have to put it like this:

Sub-Zero >= Captain Falcon > Raiden > Prince of Persia > Nightmare.

2. Highest person I'll take each character over? Well based on 2k5 stats...

Sub-Zero/Captain Falcon - Ryu Hayabusa
Raiden - Pac-Man
Prince of Persia - Sam Fisher
Nightmare - Kratos Aurion

3. I have no idea actually.

4. Sub-Zero vs. Tommy Vercetti
Captain Falcon vs. Kefka
Prince of Persia vs. KOS-MOS
Nightmare vs. Ness (Ness may be underrated. I may be underrating Nightmare as well.)

5. Overall, this group is better although Tifa was definitely the best thing to come out of the rallies so far, with Leon Kennedy second.

---
Nominate Carmen Sandiego for SC2k6
Currently playing: MMXC, Fight Night R2, Threads of Fate, Jade Empire

- Prince of Persia will be stronger than Kratos. Same appeal. Higher name recognition. Slightly less popular games overall, but more of them. Series name is a staple.

- Nightmare is the best Soul Calibur rep, but Soul Calibur isn't really about the characters. Soul Calibur is all about the gameplay. They don't have nearly the individual character exposure and popularity of the Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat series. Most of the relatively popular SF characters (Akuma, Vega, Cammy, etc.) would beat Nightmare.

- Captain Falcon would get the SFF against Ness. I think he is the strongest of the SSB/M focused characters.

- I don't think Raiden suffers at all. Any strength that he would have would depend entirely on the MGS fanbase and whether or not they would support him. He gets less hate now. And based on Snake's 2k5, I don't think Raiden would be much different. MGS3 ensured that MGS has a solid base on this site.
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Nominate Carmen Sandiego for SC2k6
Currently playing: MMXC, Fight Night R2, Threads of Fate, Jade Empire

1. How would you rank them in order of strength?

Captain Falcon (Falcon and Subs are pretty much interchangeable for me)
Sub-Zero
Raiden
The Prince of Persia
Nightmare

2. Who is the strongest character you would take each character over?

I'll take a rain check on this one.

3. What seed do you foresee each character getting, should they make it in?

Rain check!

4. Which character(s) would you like to see each character face in a contest match?

Sub-Zero - Ryu Hayabusa
Captain Falcon - Ness
Raiden - Frog
The Prince of Persia - Kratos
Nightmare - uhh... *shrugs*

5. How does this group compare to last year's five (Ocelot, Tifa, Leon Kennedy, Kerrigan, Lloyd)? Did we get a better selection this year?

Tifa was great, Leon was an entertaining enigma, and the other three were huge busts. We won't get anyone as fantastic as Tifa, but on the whole, I'd expect this group to perform more evenly.

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Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

The Prince of Persia - Do you think he'll be stronger or weaker than Kratos from God of War?

Stronger. Prince has been around forever, has recently been remolded to attract casual gamers, has three big games this generation, has his name stamped on every game cover, and has the ability to get a very cool picture. I'd take him over Kratos in a second.

Nightmare - Are there any other fighting game characters that have yet to be in a contest that you would rank above him? Was he the best possible representative from Soul Calibur (Link doesn't count...).

Sub-Zero, Guile, maybe a few others. To be honest, I wasn't even sure who Nightmare was before this contest. He's my pick for "biggest probable bomb."

Sub-Zero - The obvious one: How far above or below Scorpion do you think he'll be? Would you take him in a direct match against Ken?

Above Scorpion, but not by much. I'd take Ken over Sub-Zero.

Captain Falcon - In a direct match against Ness, who would get SFF'd, if anyone did? Are there any other characters who draw most of their power from Super Smash Brothers who would do better than Falcon OR Ness?

Falcon would take Ness by virtue of being so much damn cooler in the Smash games.

Raiden - Will the lack of exposure since MGS2 hurt him? In other words, was his potential strength higher in 2003 than it is now? Also, will he be stronger than Liquid and/or Ocelot? Would he beat either head-to-head?

Oh, Raiden was way stronger in 2003 than he can ever hope to be again; there is no doubt in my mind. Sure, he was hated, but now, he's either still hated or completely forgotten. It's not as if people are going to start liking him for no reason.
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Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

o_0 @ Purge
---
Rising Stream The board 8 Rpg .
Release Date: 6th March (9 Hours of gameplay)

Right, and Crono is getting weaker by the second, too. Not having been in a game for a long time is not that big a deal. Yes, he'll be weaker than 2k3, but since he (hopefully) won't be facing Snake he should rate quite a bit higher still.
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Take a hike, and don't forget the trail mix *****. Hijack - MC Chris
Detective in Sir Chris' Police

CJayC loves giving Snake rematches though.
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SC2K6 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Serge, Seifer, Laguna, The Prince of Persia, Nightmare, Sub-Zero, Captain Falcon, Raiden

I like the way you did the simulator; well-done. Now, for any suggestions I can make...this may be nit-picky, but maybe you could upload more adjusted options, especially for 2k5. I know that cn, Ulti, and I have our own x-stats (I believe Slow does too -- though nowadays absent -- and maybe another one or two)...perhaps you could upload those and have them as options like "Raw?"
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Miss my Four-Pack Of Fun? Go here:
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Eh, I think that's a bit overdone. One set of adjusted stats and the raw stats are plenty.
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"A huge void in her heart. It is filled not by darkness, but kindness from others." - Presea Combatir, the Empty Soul

Like I said, nit-picky, though I still think it would be a (small) improvement.


Now, to answer your questions...I'm gonna handle each of them with their own individual post.
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Miss my Four-Pack Of Fun? Go here:
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good, it was remade. I can't believe the stats topic died.

I'll answer these questions in a wee bit.

---
xyzzy

I'll still hold to my stance that too many versions of the stats is a little overdone. It's fine as is with what we've got.
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"A huge void in her heart. It is filled not by darkness, but kindness from others." - Presea Combatir, the Empty Soul

speaking of x-stats, you guys should see this:

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=26626170

it's good for a laugh.

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xyzzy

Sub-Zero



1. How would you rank them in order of strength?

I give him my prediction of being the strongest.


2. Who is the strongest character you would take each character over?

Vivi. I'm going by absolute maxes, mind you.


3. What seed do you foresee each character getting, should they make it in?

I'll say a 4-seed.


4. Which character(s) would you like to see each character face in a contest match?

A Sub-Zero/Yuna match would be great to me.


5. How does this group compare to last year's five (Ocelot, Tifa, Leon Kennedy, Kerrigan, Lloyd)? Did we get a better selection this year?

(I'll answer this for the whole group and not repeat it over and over)
MUCH better. Though none will be as strong as Tifa and it'd be a sight to see any be as strong as Leon, you will not see a bust like Revolver, Kerrigan, or Lloyd this year (except for those who over-estimate too much...and even then, there's high potential for several of them).


Sub-Zero - The obvious one: How far above or below Scorpion do you think he'll be? Would you take him in a direct match against Ken?

He'll definitely be above Scorpion, though I don't know HOW much higher. Scorpion 2k3 should be at about 23% on Link 2k4/5, so I figure Sub-Zero will be around 24% or so...25% being his max.
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Nightmare



1. How would you rank them in order of strength?

The second strongest, with potential for THE strongest.


2. Who is the strongest character you would take each character over?

Tidus is his absolute max.


3. What seed do you foresee each character getting, should they make it in?

3-seed.


4. Which character(s) would you like to see each character face in a contest match?

Give me Nightmare/Ness.


Nightmare - Are there any other fighting game characters that have yet to be in a contest that you would rank above him? Was he the best possible representative from Soul Calibur (Link doesn't count...).

I like to think Yoshimitsu...but, ultimately, I would pick Nightmare in that match. The only other fighter unseen so far I would take over Nightmare is Sub-Zero, heh.
---
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1. How would you rank them in order of strength?

Nightmare > Prince > Raiden > Sub-zero > Falcon

2. Who is the strongest character you would take each character over?

Nightmare: Difficult.

Prince: ...Kratos

Raiden: Kefka. That'd be with a lot of factors for Raiden and against Kefka, and if Kefka got the lettuce pic again. >_> MGS4 hype may even boost Raiden a smidge - he's confirmed as a character in it.

Sub-zero: Again, difficult.

Falcon: *shrug*

3. What seed do you foresee each character getting, should they make it in?

Prince: 4
Nightmare: 5
Falcon: 5
Raiden: 3 at most, 5 at least
Sub-zero: Ack, 5

4. Which character(s) would you like to see each character face in a contest match?

Prince vs. Kratos.
Nightmare vs. Gordon Freeman >_>
Sub-zero vs. Scorpion, to find out who is stronger
Raiden vs. Diablo
Falcon vs. ... (No idea what his strength would be)

5. How does this group compare to last year's five (Ocelot, Tifa, Leon Kennedy, Kerrigan, Lloyd)? Did we get a better selection this year?

Last year's is better, but we're running out of potentially strong, snubbed characters, so this one would obviously be weaker. Tifa + Leon were good, let's hope we get at least two good chars this time.

The Prince of Persia - Do you think he'll be stronger or weaker than Kratos from God of War?

Stronger, just.

Nightmare - Are there any other fighting game characters that have yet to be in a contest that you would rank above him? Was he the best possible representative from Soul Calibur (Link doesn't count...).

Hyabusa >_>

Sub-Zero - The obvious one: How far above or below Scorpion do you think he'll be? Would you take him in a direct match against Ken?

Impossible to say.
No.

Captain Falcon - In a direct match against Ness, who would get SFF'd, if anyone did? Are there any other characters who draw most of their power from Super Smash Brothers who would do better than Falcon OR Ness?

Falcon maybe, otherwise no SFF. They draw most of their popularity from SSBM....

Raiden - Will the lack of exposure since MGS2 hurt him? In other words, was his potential strength higher in 2003 than it is now? Also, will he be stronger than Liquid
and/or Ocelot? Would he beat either head-to-head?

Strgoner than neither of them, he might have dipped since 2k3, but MGS34 hype might gain him a little of that back.
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Sign my petition! Topic ID: 22242738
"XiC is a little guy. I could probably throw him into a dartboard, headfirst, using one arm." - Ohfennsiv

1. How would you rank them in order of strength?

1.) Captain Falcon
2.) Prince of Persia
3.) Sub-Zero
4.) Raiden
5.) Nightmare


2. Who is the strongest character you would take each character over?

Falcon over Vercetti, the Prince over Kratos, Sub-Zero over Kratos, Raiden over CATS, Nightmare over CATS.

4. Which character(s) would you like to see each character face in a contest match?

C. Falcon/Ness
Prince of Persia/Kratos (GoW)
Sub-Zero/Scorpion
Raiden/Kefka
Nightmare/Chun-Li

5. How does this group compare to last year's five (Ocelot, Tifa, Leon Kennedy, Kerrigan, Lloyd)? Did we get a better selection this year?

Overall, I would say this group is not going to produce strong characters like Tifa and Leon, but it the difference between them won't be massive either. We should not see any Kerrigan's or Lloyd's from this pack.

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We adults realize that Link has an ulterior motive: to quench his man-thirst in the eager stream of womanly passion.

1. How would you rank them in order of strength?

I would guess:

Prince of Persia > Captain Falcon > Raiden > Sub-Zero > Nightmare

2. Who is the strongest character you would take each character over?

Prince - Donkey Kong
Falcon - Tommy Vercetti
Raiden - Ness
Sub-Zero - KOS-MOS
Nightmare - Laharl

3. What seed do you foresee each character getting, should they make it in?

Assuming this is a bracket of eight eight seeded divisions:

Prince - 3
Falcon - 4 or 5
Raiden - 6
Sub-Zero - 5 or 6
Nightmare - 7 or 8

4. Which character(s) would you like to see each character face in a contest match?

Obviously, Scorpion vs Sub-Zero, or a common opponent of Scorpions anyway. Maybe Prince vs Luigi. Other than, none.

5. How does this group compare to last year's five (Ocelot, Tifa, Leon Kennedy, Kerrigan, Lloyd)? Did we get a better selection this year?

Even with three of them being bombs, I still think that group will prove to be stronger than this one. The only character I can see having any strength is PoP.

---
Brainstruck, now in musical grace form!
Just like you protected us... We want to protect you.

Nightmare = Laharl? Wow.
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"A huge void in her heart. It is filled not by darkness, but kindness from others." - Presea Combatir, the Empty Soul

This group looks to have a much higher average value than last year's if you exclude the obvious abberation that is Tifa.
---
Take a hike, and don't forget the trail mix *****. Hijack - MC Chris
Detective in Sir Chris' Police

Hey, I acknowledge the chance that Nightmare could end up below Laharl. A relatively strong game with no standout characters...
---
Please, nominate Aeris Gainsborough for SC2k6:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=26571751

The Prince of Persia - Do you think he'll be stronger or weaker than Kratos from God of War?

Yes and no. Kratos had a hugely popular release, but I think after time, people will forget about him and his strength will dive. Prince won't have that problem. This year, I see them as about equals.

Nightmare - Are there any other fighting game characters that have yet to be in a contest that you would rank above him? Was he the best possible representative from Soul Calibur (Link doesn't count...).

He was probably the best possible rep for Soul Calibur, but I still think he's gonna bomb. Like someone said, SC isn't popular for its characters. I would take several Street Fighter characters, and maybe even a few Tekken and Mortal Kombat characters over him.

Sub-Zero - The obvious one: How far above or below Scorpion do you think he'll be? Would you take him in a direct match against Ken?

I think the difference will be marginal at best. I would take Ken over him without much thought.

Captain Falcon - In a direct match against Ness, who would get SFF'd, if anyone did? Are there any other characters who draw most of their power from Super Smash Brothers who would do better than Falcon OR Ness?

I don't know if Falcon could SFF Ness, but there is no question he would win. Since the release of SSBM, there have been three pretty popular F-Zero games to add to his SSBM value.

Raiden - Will the lack of exposure since MGS2 hurt him? In other words, was his potential strength higher in 2003 than it is now? Also, will he be stronger than Liquid and/or Ocelot? Would he beat either head-to-head?

I don't think it will hurt him, because he did have (albeit, a small) a role in the MGS4 trailer. I would say his strength could be anywhere. He could either still be hated and be 'cool' (like, rusty), or people might be indifferent to him now and vote for him based purely on his MGS affiliation. I would take him over Ocelot, but probably not over Liquid (I can't see Raiden breaking 20 on Sephiroth).

---
Brainstruck, now in musical grace form!
Just like you protected us... We want to protect you.

Nightmare has two things going for him:

1. A cool look
2. A universally cool name

These two advantages are not enough, in my opinion, to keep him from being the weakest of this year's five winners.
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Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

"Since the release of SSBM, there have been three pretty popular F-Zero games to add to his SSBM value."

And you just finished saying SC isn't really known for its characters...

Logic, meet gaping hole. Gaping hole, meet logic.
---
Take a hike, and don't forget the trail mix *****. Hijack - MC Chris
Detective in Sir Chris' Police

I just can't see any of the other characters being weaker.
---
Brainstruck, now in musical grace form!
Just like you protected us... We want to protect you.

And hopefully, Akuma and Serge (if he doesn't this year) will get their shots next year. Those are the two primary snubs that come to mind that I still want to see in a contest.
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"A huge void in her heart. It is filled not by darkness, but kindness from others." - Presea Combatir, the Empty Soul

And you just finished saying SC isn't really known for its characters...

Logic, meet gaping hole. Gaping hole, meet logic.

Its not. Whats your point? SSBM is all about its characters. It kinda the basis for the series.
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Brainstruck, now in musical grace form!
Just like you protected us... We want to protect you.

When considering Ness/Falcon, any arguments featuring the words "Earthbound" and "F-Zero" can be safely discarded. It's all about who wins the Smash support, and I simply can't see Captain Falcon losing it.
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Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

Raiden



1. How would you rank them in order of strength?

Numero tres.


2. Who is the strongest character you would take each character over?

...Diablo? I stress again, absolute max.


3. What seed do you foresee each character getting, should they make it in?

5-seed for Raiden.


4. Which character(s) would you like to see each character face in a contest match?

Let him take on Liquid...or, for somebody outside of MGS, try Tommy Vercetti.


Raiden - Will the lack of exposure since MGS2 hurt him? In other words, was his potential strength higher in 2003 than it is now? Also, will he be stronger than Liquid and/or Ocelot? Would he beat either head-to-head?

Very likely, yet I suspect it only minimally affected his potential. I like to think Raiden would beat or outdo Liquid, but I won't bank on it...but I would certainly take my chances with him against Revolver -- directly and indirectly.
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Whats your point? SSBM is all about its characters. It kinda the basis for the series.

I believe he's referring to your F-Zero argument.
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"A huge void in her heart. It is filled not by darkness, but kindness from others." - Presea Combatir, the Empty Soul

Neither can I, but it can't hurt Falcon that he's had three games released since SSBM to Ness's zero.
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Brainstruck, now in musical grace form!
Just like you protected us... We want to protect you.

Which is fair. But to say that Falcon will beat Ness because of a bunch of games where he really isn't that important is silly.

Ness actually means something to his game, and his game actually means something to GameFAQs unlike any of the mentioned F-Zero games. I cannot see him losing to Falcon, and I cannot see why people are so insistant that Falcon has a chance to win that match (there apparently will always be characters you people overrate against my best warnings *cough*Kerrigan*cough*).
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Detective in Sir Chris' Police

1. How would you rank them in order of strength?

Sub-Zero > Prince of Persia > Captain Falcon > Raiden > Nightmare

2. Who is the strongest character you would take each character over?

Sub-Zero - Tommy Vercetti
PoP - Ness
Captain Falcon - Pac-Man
Raiden - Pac-Man
Nightmare - Kratos Aurion

3. What seed do you foresee each character getting, should they make it in?

PoP - 2
Sub-Zero - 2 or 3
Captain Falcon - 3 or 4
Raiden - 5
Nightmare - 6


4. Which character(s) would you like to see each character face in a contest match?

Captain Falcon/Ness
Raiden/Ocelot
Nightmare/Scorpion
Sub-Zero/Kefka
PoP/Tommy Vercetti

5. How does this group compare to last year's five (Ocelot, Tifa, Leon Kennedy, Kerrigan, Lloyd)? Did we get a better selection this year

I think overall this years more balanced. None of them will even come close to being the complete fodder Kerrigan was and they all have a chance of breaking the fodder line (though I doubt it). Obviously last year was stronger if just because of Tifa and Leon.

Well, I'm not trying to say the F-Zero games would be the nail in the coffin for Ness, all I'm saying is it couldn't hurt his chances. I know I checked out some of the games the character from SSB/M were in after playing.
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Brainstruck, now in musical grace form!
Just like you protected us... We want to protect you.

If we're talking about games outside of SSBM being the difference maker, there's no doubt Earthbound has the advantage, in my mind.
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"A huge void in her heart. It is filled not by darkness, but kindness from others." - Presea Combatir, the Empty Soul