Goin' to class, but I'm gonna point out a match that looks awkwardly lop-sided and that, despite the stats, I think most people'll disagree with...

...Knuckles VS Auron, who wins?

Auron. You're using no Devil division adjustment, right? Self-explanatory then.
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What online fan couldn't get behind Trevor Murdoch? I mean, finally, a wrestler with our physique! -Sean Carless

i wonder who wins a tidus/magus bout now?
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Blown to the next dimension by JMan_gamerX8 in the sc2k5 guru contest

i wonder who wins a tidus/magus bout now?

Magus is stronger, even if you adjust the Devil Division and not the Dream Division. Personally, I think both should be adjusted down, in which case the gap is even wider.

As for Knuckles/Auron, Auron takes it easily. Auron's probably about as strong as Squall, IMO. As for Big Boss, I'm sure that young Big Boss would've done much better than old Big Boss did.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.
Congrats to Jman, for knowing that on GameFAQs, men are always > women.

Speaking of movies everyone needs to see. Crash is #1 on that list. Even though it came out late last year.
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Jman_gamerX8 is sexier, funnier, and all around better guy than I am, because he won the Summer 2005 Guru Contest.

tag
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*sigh* sonic's never going to be in the final 4 -_-

Just a little thing I was pondering in my head earlier today...does anyone think it's possible that Samus possibly overperformed on Cloud in 2k4?

I don't have a lot of basis for the theory, other than the possibility that Cloud underperformed against ALL his opposition in 2k4 (due to anti-champion votes, FF7 hate, or whatever), and thus overrates them in the standings. But let's look at the facts. There's Duke, of course, and while that's usually attributed to the 'Milk Nukem' pic, I can't help but wonder if that was all there was to it. Then there was Vyse, and although the results were consistent with his 2k3 projections, seeing the way Vyse obscenely bombed in 2k5 makes me quite skeptical of him staying completely constant in 2k4. Then you've got two SFF matches in Squall and Sephiroth. And then you get Samus.

Checking out everyone in Samus' quarter of the bracket, it's hard to get a bead on a lot of them. Sam Fisher was obviously overrated by Magus in 2k3, and measuring him through Master Chief this year doesn't seem to me as the greatest way to produce a reliable comparison. Gordon Freeman had HL2 this year and obviously boosted by leaps and bounds. And Dante had DMC3 this year. What piques my interest, though, is that the three returning characters that didn't have any big reason to boost--Sora, Ryu, and KOS-MOS--ended up underperforming horribly. Obviously you can attribute that to a demographic shift, but I'm starting to wonder if that's really all there was to it.

A Samus overperformance--or rather, Cloud underperforming in all his non-SFF matches other than Link--would help to explain a lot of the characters bombing in this contest. Vyse making Tifa look like she could win the contest. KOS-MOS making Luigi look like an elite. Ryu making Bowser look stronger than Sonic, Snake, and Samus. Sora was the only one that looked a mite impressive against Alucard, and seeing as how Ganondorf's transplanted 2k3 was obviously not warranted in 2k4, it's not out of the question to suggest that match was more Alucard sucking than anything else--and then there was the obliteration of Snake/Sora, after all. And frankly, it helps to explain why Samus herself was so much freaking higher than Mario in 2k4. Mark my words, if Mario and Samus had met in 2k4 I would bet literally anything that Mario would have come away with the win--but for him to do so in 2k4 would have required very blatant and quite severe rSFF. I don't buy Samus being that much stronger than Mario, if EVER stronger than him...indirectly or otherwise.

Of course, the whole wrench in this is Sonic, who has come out shining like a star in 2k5. But we've heard enough times that even if you try to adjust the Devil Division downwards, Knuckles' boost is still even bigger than Sonic's. Sonic may have been overrated in 2k4, but the Sonic Boost may have caused him to come out better than ever if it was on par with Knuckles'--sort of the 'Ganondorf Effect', if you will.

I don't think Samus would be overrated by anything more than a few points in 2k4, but the more I think about it, the more I can't fathom Samus being that much higher than Mario after what he did to her this year. It could be an abberation, or even Mario being underrated in his half of the bracket rather than Samus being overrated. Just throwing it out there.
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For the first time ever, Solid Snake has made the Final Four! Believe it.

Nay, Slow, for plagiarizing insinuates that I did it on purpose, heh. Regardless, I knew you had similar results, though I didn't realize I was so close to the way you did that. My bad, but at least we have another decent angle of getting the same/similar result.


Auron. You're using no Devil division adjustment, right?

Correct, as well as not adjusting Mario/Samus or Samus/Ganon (though assuming Samus = Mario, stats still have Auron losing to Knuckles). I would think everybody here would take Auron over Knuckles without alot of thought though, which is why I asked it; I know Ganon being SFF'd by Samus isn't the most popular of ideas, which would leave the Devil Division being over-rated being the only reasonable explanation left for Auron > Knuckles.
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Much like priest-sex, Jman_gamerX8 molested gurus by the hundreds.
Congrats, for your dominance has now been compared to priest-sex.

Meh. I'd think hard before taking Knuckles over Dante. And comparing Dante's performance against Tails with Auron's...
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Sir Chris has bestowed upon me the Zenithian Helm. I wear it with pride!

What piques my interest, though, is that the three returning characters that didn't have any big reason to boost--Sora, Ryu, and KOS-MOS--ended up underperforming horribly.

For what it's worth, KH:CoH came out on a Nintendo hand-held which was supposed to open Sora to a new audience, and Xenosaga 2 was released this spring and was supposed to help KOS-MOS. I get your point though, seeing as how neither of those games were huge. I don't know what to say about Sora (I wanna look more into him before I comment alot on his position), but I'm not entirely opposed to linking Ryu and KOS-MOS together; for those who remember last year, SF:AC was released a week or two before Ryu/Sonic and the ad for that game was constantly on the side of the message boards. I would think it's possible (though not guaranteed, by any means, and I'm not completely for this theory yet) that SF:AC caused Ryu and KOS-MOS to be over-rated in 2k4.
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Much like priest-sex, Jman_gamerX8 molested gurus by the hundreds.
Congrats, for your dominance has now been compared to priest-sex.

Knuckles would take down Auron no problem.

I personally doubt that Auron could even take down Tidus.
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Tombolown'd-I couldn't HANDLE the Tombolo!

man from the description of the doom movie i got from the radio times it's gonna suck as much balls as resident evil:apocalypse and tomb raider 2.

when will they ever make the effort to make a good game to movie? imagine peter jackson directing a LoZ movie with a budget of 120million dollars
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Blown to the next dimension by JMan_gamerX8 in the sc2k5 guru contest

It'd suck. VG-based movies sucking are in the same book as the Earth being round and GFNW in terms of laws that govern our universe.

Now I know there have been rumors for years about a Metroid movie... I always wondered what it'd be like. In a cruel, sadistic sort of way, of course. The one time they had Samus talk, the game turned out to be a complete abortion by Metroid standards - that means average on an overall scale, of course. ;)
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What online fan couldn't get behind Trevor Murdoch? I mean, finally, a wrestler with our physique! -Sean Carless

Nah, give Quinten Tarentino (sp?) a game franchise he could fit well with; though I've hardly played more than a demo, I would think he could make a good Hitman game using the Pulp Fiction formula.
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Much like priest-sex, Jman_gamerX8 molested gurus by the hundreds.
Congrats, for your dominance has now been compared to priest-sex.

i can see brian de palma or martin scorcese making a GTA movie. they would make it into some slick stuff like scarface/goodfellas/the untouchables/taxi driver.

but tarantino could make a good gta movie too. i'd be like reservoir dogs on a bigger budget
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Blown to the next dimension by JMan_gamerX8 in the sc2k5 guru contest

I'd think hard before taking Knuckles over Dante. And comparing Dante's performance against Tails with Auron's...

Overlooked this. That's fine logic and all (I have no problem with it; looks good to me), I'm just makin' the point of something obviously being wrong with Knuckles > Auron; I would think next-to-nobody in this topic would expect Knuckles to break 48% against Auron, at best. Unadjusted stats have Auron gettin' 39.6% against Knuckles. From there, let's go and say Samus = Mario (which is not viable for alot of people, and I too question whether or not Samus was SFF'd as much as we say she was)...Auron still only gets 49.24% against Knuckles. That leaves Samus/Ganon and Crono/Vincent for those looking for answers to justify what's probably felt as obvious.

Now, not to say Samus/Ganon couldn't have had SFF, but I think there's alot more reasons why Vincent could have over-rated the Devil Division and how Vincent could have over-rated his whole division more than Ganon could have under-rated his four-pack. Consider these things: FF:AC (and the possible Sunshine-effect), FF7 > CT, the generational difference, and Crono's fanbase being more aware of Vincent than other opponents' fanbases. To add to it, notice how CT's Magus and Frog were over-rated in their rookie years after a close match and having to face Link and Solid (both who people have said had bad pics) in the Sweet Sixteen? Now notice how well FF7's Vincent did in his rookie year after a close match and had to face Crono (who people have said had a bad pic) in the Elite Eight. If there truly is a Cinderella-effect of sorts, Vincent should benefit as much as Magus or Frog did.

I just think the Knuckles > Auron stats really makes a point about how the Devil Division is over-rated.
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Much like priest-sex, Jman_gamerX8 molested gurus by the hundreds.
Congrats, for your dominance has now been compared to priest-sex.

I think Auron is ahead of Magus far enough to be able to beat Knuckles with ease.

It had a few good parts, but a lot of the time it was just too slow. I'd give it a 7/10.

That actually makes more sense.

~*ST*~
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Winner of the Spring 2004 "Best. Game. Ever." Contest
Currently Playing: Fire Emblem 8, Advance Wars 2, We <3 Katamari

I think Auron and Tidus have weakened since 2k3 myself...
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

well FFXII ought to be very interesting. we've needed a true new FF for a long time
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Blown to the next dimension by JMan_gamerX8 in the sc2k5 guru contest

okay, first of all, I liked Sith. I said it was a fun movie, after all.

secondly, Auron would beat Knuckles in about the same manner that Squall did. it would be close, but I would take Auron.

third, video game movies are always awful. please, no more.

fourth, I've heard the Samus overperforming theory before and don't buy it. hell, remember Samus's first two rounds of 04?
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Jman_gamerX8:Link::me:Jay Solano.

actually resident evil was decent even with a crappy cast/bad plot and direction. so with EFFORT and good CAST and DIRECTION they could be as good as book adaptations
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Blown to the next dimension by JMan_gamerX8 in the sc2k5 guru contest

Luigi > Auron in the Adjusted stats ?


KB

No. Auron's a slight bit ahead of Luigi there. Not enough to make a definitive call on that, but I'd pick Auron since picking Luigi has never done people good, ever, be it from 24% from BL or 30%.
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What online fan couldn't get behind Trevor Murdoch? I mean, finally, a wrestler with our physique! -Sean Carless

"picking Luigi has never done people good, ever"

I call BS. Luigi was mathmatically expected to be 50/50 with KOS in round 1, going with him there paid off. You just have to remain realistic, that's all.
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Jman_gamerX8 teamed up with Mario to kick my ass!

I think Auron is ahead of Magus far enough to be able to beat Knuckles with ease.

Which only adds to my point of adjusting the Devil Division; using the unadjusted stats, Magus gets 59.71% on Auron. It can't all be Mario/Samus SFF, either, as assuming Samus = Mario would have Auron beat Magus with 50.1% of the votes, still less than what Knuckles got on him...hardly with ease. So, then, where should one turn to get what's reasonable? Samus/Ganon or Crono/Vincent? To justify anybody's claim of Auron over Knuckles (with ease, no less), it has to be either Ganon being SFF'd or Vincent over-performing (or, for smart-asses, Crono over-performing against Mario, but let's not even consider that one)...or a combination of the two factors.

Not hard for me to decide what I think it is.
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Much like priest-sex, Jman_gamerX8 molested gurus by the hundreds.
Congrats, for your dominance has now been compared to priest-sex.

Ganon got SFF'd and Vincent overperformed on Crono. There's no doubt in my mind that Ganon would easily beat Vincent, and Auron would stand a chance at it.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.
Congrats to Jman, for knowing that on GameFAQs, men are always > women.

I never made a post about it, but I think rSFF can very well exist during a match when one character is expected to lose. Since there are many fans of both, I can see those fans wanting the weaker character to do as well as possible if said character is also a fan favorite, although weaker.

Based on that, Vincent and Kirby may have slightly overperformed in their last matches. Although Kirby's showing on Bowser may very well be legit with the way he handled Tidus. Vincent is another story. He may very well be that strong, but then we have the rest of the Devil division to look at. Plus we've ALREADY seen side-characters from popular games get bandwagons and overperform on their way out. Who's to say we didn't see the same thing with Vincent? Although I had initially predicted Vincent to be as strong as he placed, his matches against Squall and Dante say otherwise. I thought he would handle them with ease...
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Based on that, Vincent and Kirby may have slightly overperformed in their last matches. Although Kirby's showing on Bowser may very well be legit with the way he handled Tidus.

Bowser overperformed on Snake, not Kirby on Bowser. Pic factor makes a lot more sense than Kirby over Bowser rSFF.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.
Congrats to Jman, for knowing that on GameFAQs, men are always > women.

Kirby rSFF'ing Bowser > Bowser taking advantage of Solid's bad pic

So I feel, anyways.
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Much like priest-sex, Jman_gamerX8 molested gurus by the hundreds.
Congrats, for your dominance has now been compared to priest-sex.

HaRRicH wins. (Damn, I hate typing that username.)

Though, it's not like I believe in either.
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What online fan couldn't get behind Trevor Murdoch? I mean, finally, a wrestler with our physique! -Sean Carless

I hate typing "Sno[<--][backspace]l[-->]wflake" too, don't worry. =P

I believe there was some rSFF in Kirby/Bowser, and I'm open about the pic factor Solid/Bowser though ultimately believe the effect was minimal.
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Much like priest-sex, Jman_gamerX8 molested gurus by the hundreds.
Congrats, for your dominance has now been compared to priest-sex.

What does Luigi have to do to get some respect? He doubles KOS-MOS, gets 47% on Tifa, and sitll people write him off.

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Jman_gamerX8: It's over, BWA! I've got the high ground! I picked Mario over Samus!
BWA: NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

yeah, I gave up capitalizing your name all funky-like months ago. I'm used to Slowflake by now so I don't ever mistype it.

I also believe in the possibility of Kirby/Bowser rSFF, though I think it's like 1-2%. Kirby flat-out impressed this year more than anyone else.

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Jman_gamerX8:Link::me:Jay Solano.

Snake's the same guy that underperformed by roughly 12% against Frog. Now, that could be a culmination of Frog's Cinderalla run, Frog's picture, and Snake's picture, but I think that's proof enough that there's a couple percent worth of overperformance for Bowser because of the pic. And the argument against that used to be Snake/Ryu...and look where Ryu is now.
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Congrats to Jman_gamerX8, who pwned all the Gurus in SC2k5!

I'm not thinking much of the latter. Ryu's already low enough as it is.

The former makes more sense, since Tidus is a little bit higher than last year... then again, there's no way to tell where he REALLY stood in 2002 and 2003... my personal estimates have him at 30% on BL in 2002 and, well, about the same as this year in 2003, since he's right behind Magus once you adjust the Devil division, and both had close ones with Ganondorf that year.

In a nutshell, Tidus IS more consistent than we've given him credit for, but still not enough to be a reliable solution to problems.

Besides, since it's been brought to my attention that Kirby was a bit higher than I remembered prior to this year, his boost has been slighly easier to swallow, and in terms of boost he falls behind Luigi and Bowser(?). So I have pretty much no choice but to give him the benefit of the doubt. Not that I understand how Bowser didn't SFF Kirby in the first place.
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What online fan couldn't get behind Trevor Murdoch? I mean, finally, a wrestler with our physique! -Sean Carless

You seem to forget Ryu was really good last year, though. His best year, even.
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What online fan couldn't get behind Trevor Murdoch? I mean, finally, a wrestler with our physique! -Sean Carless

He was (severely) outperformed by Luigi on KOS-MOS and he got SFAC right before his match with Sonic. Given where both Ryu and KOS-MOS ended up this year, I don't think it was so much his best year as it was him "doing the Mario."
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Congrats to Jman_gamerX8, who pwned all the Gurus in SC2k5!

I'd pick Luigi over Ryu nowadays. Honest . If it was just being bad against Bowser I'd understand, but he was utterly pathetic in the first round as well.
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What online fan couldn't get behind Trevor Murdoch? I mean, finally, a wrestler with our physique! -Sean Carless

this whole conversation makes me think: Luigi/Knuckles, who wins?
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Jman_gamerX8:Link::me:Jay Solano.

I'd pick Luigi, but I wouldn't feel entirely safe.
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What online fan couldn't get behind Trevor Murdoch? I mean, finally, a wrestler with our physique! -Sean Carless

I'd have picked Luigi over Ryu before the contest started, but that's neither here nor there. Aside from a decent performance against Samus in 2k2 (where WDF has him at ~30%), his other three performances make me skeptical that he's ever been significantly higher than 30%.
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Congrats to Jman_gamerX8, who pwned all the Gurus in SC2k5!

Not that I understand how Bowser didn't SFF Kirby in the first place.

Considering Yoshi suffered what was probably minimal/no SFF in 2k3 and still managed about 44% in 2k3, then Kirby's ahead of Yoshi in the 2k4 stats too. Then I would think Kirby > Yoshi > Bowser in terms of favoritism in SSB/M, too. Not that I was expecting Kirby to do as well as he did, but I think it's fairly explainable.
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Much like priest-sex, Jman_gamerX8 molested gurus by the hundreds.
Congrats, for your dominance has now been compared to priest-sex.

Maybe. But assuming a normal Snake/Bowser already has him low enough. I can't bring myself to think he's so pathetic.
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What online fan couldn't get behind Trevor Murdoch? I mean, finally, a wrestler with our physique! -Sean Carless

After what they'd done to Tidus and Ryu, there was just no way out. Bowser HAD to let Kirby come relatively close, then have a nailbiter with/beat a revitalized Snake. Else the Dream division was crapping on the stats too.

And guess what happened? Yeah.
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What online fan couldn't get behind Trevor Murdoch? I mean, finally, a wrestler with our physique! -Sean Carless

Luigi with about 51.5%. I'll take 46.64% on Tifa over 46.2% on Squall.
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Much like priest-sex, Jman_gamerX8 molested gurus by the hundreds.
Congrats, for your dominance has now been compared to priest-sex.

He was (severely) outperformed by Luigi on KOS-MOS and he got SFAC right before his match with Sonic. Given where both Ryu and KOS-MOS ended up this year, I don't think it was so much his best year as it was him "doing the Mario."

Heh, after 3 years of saying that Ryu is the contest's most consistent character, after his one slipup with Bowser people are now going back through his other matches and saying he was overrated.

As for Luigi/Knuckles, I'd pick Knuckles in any close match out of bias alone. As for backing it up, it's a toss-up. Knuckles performed much better than Luigi in direct matchups against Squall, but Luigi is two years removed from that match. And this is an entirely different Luigi.

But you can also compare them this year. Knux performed about the same against Squall as Luigi performed on Tifa. It all depends on who you think is stronger. Squall nearly took down Vincent, and I think Vincent is slightly stronger than Tifa. Based on that though, Luigi/Knuckles is a toss up. And based on intangibles (a.k.a. things X-stats can't account for), I'd have to give Knuckles the edge.
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

well, if you assume Tifa = Vincent, there's less than 1% of difference there.

it's anybody's match, I'd say. I'll go for Luigi just because Mario > Sonic here.
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Jman_gamerX8:Link::me:Jay Solano.

Until recently, I've always said that Knux and CATS were the most consistent, not Ryu. But that's not true anymore either. The other one was Mario, and he doesn't work...so I'd go with Mega Man now, despite him being involved in one anomaly and causing another.
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Congrats to Jman_gamerX8, who pwned all the Gurus in SC2k5!

Well then it's confirmed. Ceej is watching this topic and will set up Knux/Luigi next year for a spot in the Sweet 16.
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Hmm Luigi vs Knuckles..man that's a hard one.
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I got MARIOWNED by Jman_gamerX8, winner of the Guru contest.

I remember when Knuckles/Yoshi was controversial, and most people gave Yoshi the edge...now Luigi's taken Yoshi's place.
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Much like priest-sex, Jman_gamerX8 molested gurus by the hundreds.
Congrats, for your dominance has now been compared to priest-sex.