You're still making a correlation between something that may not necessarily be there. We haven't seen Cloud nor Link perform so there would be no way of saying definitely the effect of Advent Children.

Nothing definitely, but I'm keeping it within the realm of reason. If Cloud beats Link by the skin of his teeth, I'm not going to go shouting, "OMG AC boost!" off of that alone. But if Cloud were able to say, beat Link by 52-53%, then it would be almost certain in my mind that AC had some effect. Even moreso if Sephiroth were able to slaughter Mario.

Like I said, let people mess themselves up if they want to. I'm gauging it off my own personal expectations from here on. Leave the adjusting to the 'experts', I say.
---
*is Karma Hunter*

Mario to reverse a 45% loss the previous year

Mario had 47% last year...

---
“I think my burden has lightened… Maybe I dragged it along so much that it wore down.” – Cloud Strife

Watch Mario beat Sephiroth, and then get SFF'd by Link, causing people to OMG ADJUST MARIO! never realizing that it doesn't matter, Link and Cloud will never be beaten by anyone except each other.

---
Heroic Mario is sexually stimulated by being wrong.- Digital Pad

Ah. He's still transforming a 6000 vote win to a 4000+ loss. :P

---
Warden: Talk! What is SeeD all about!?
Squall: ...Flower.

He certainly dropped enough to allow Master Chief to get 40% on him

Don't tell me you think DK is this high. Master Chief is not transitive.

and Mario to reverse a 45% loss the previous year to a 53-55% win.

This year has been ALL about the Nintendo boost. I expected nothing less from Mr. Nintendo himself.
---
*is Karma Hunter*

Mario had 47% last year...

HM, you're defending Mario.
*psuedo smirk*
---
DEFENCE, DEFENCE
"Alas, history is nothing but a lie agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte.

The way Mario is going, a 6000 vote win is not unlikely.

---
Heroic Mario is sexually stimulated by being wrong.- Digital Pad

Link and Cloud will never be beaten by anyone except each other.

Mario beat Clo-*shot*
---
DEFENCE, DEFENCE
"Alas, history is nothing but a lie agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte.

Nothing definitely, but I'm keeping it within the realm of reason. If Cloud beats Link by the skin of his teeth, I'm not going to go shouting, "OMG AC boost!" off of that alone. But if Cloud were able to say, beat Link by 52-53%, then it would be almost certain in my mind that AC had some effect. Even moreso if Sephiroth were able to slaughter Mario.

What would you do if Seph slaughter mario, say. 60/40.

and Link beat Cloud 55/45.


Or if Seph lost or barely won,

And Cloud got 55%.


how would you adjust vince then?

KB

Don't tell me you think DK is this high. Master Chief is not transitive.

This year has been ALL about the Nintendo boost. I expected nothing less from Mr. Nintendo himself.

Sure, but he still let Master Chief get 40% on him.

Even with the mightiest boost that we could imagine, do you really believe that Mario could flip a loss of 6000 votes to a win with that number? Really now.

---
Warden: Talk! What is SeeD all about!?
Squall: ...Flower.

Master Chief underperforms on people weaker than him, and overperforms on people stronger than him.

It's that simple.

---
Heroic Mario is sexually stimulated by being wrong.- Digital Pad

Then it's obvious there's not solid credence for an adjustment, IMO. Not that it matters, as I think Cloud beating Link by 55% and then Sephy losing is a *wee* bit less likely than what I've suggested.
---
*is Karma Hunter*

Oh dear. Crono prevents the comeback and then loses easily.
---
Jon Thomson - MARIO, Samus, SOLID SNAKE, Bowser, CRONO, Squall, Sonic, MEGA MAN

That may be true KH, but the idea here is that Vince may not have gotten the same treatment that Cloud and Sep get, and if you treat it as he did, then your numbers are inaccurate.

KB

Let me word it differently, then.

Master Chief got 40% on Crono. Squall and Vincent are both quite a bit stronger than Master Chief. Vincent with 45% on this year's Crono without any outside boost is not difficult to see.

Irregardless, you don't overperform on Crono as much as Master Chief did unless Crono did drop.

---
Warden: Talk! What is SeeD all about!?
Squall: ...Flower.

Or *gasp* halo 2 really did make a difference? Naw, couldn't be.
---
"The idiots on gamefaqs are easy to find because they always quote themselves" - dragoontheguy

And honestly, for all that we've seen in this contest, there's no *real* evidence of a 'Nintendo Boost' either. Torture the numbers and they'll tell you anything you want to know. Have characters take convenient drops at will, and you're just dealing with a few anomalies, not one concentrated boost across the field.

Yeah, it's possible--but I hardly believe anyone here would buy it. It's possible Cloud could beat Link and have nothing to do with AC. And the same goes for Vincent.

But I find that *highly* improbable.
---
*is Karma Hunter*

Or *gasp* halo 2 really did make a difference? Naw, couldn't be.

And Donkey Kong gained that much in one year?


KB

Or *gasp* halo 2 really did make a difference? Naw, couldn't be.

Sure it did. Just not a large one based on Donkey Kong...

---
Warden: Talk! What is SeeD all about!?
Squall: ...Flower.

And honestly, for all that we've seen in this contest, there's no *real* evidence of a 'Nintendo Boost' either.

Off the top of my head,
Mario overall.
DK's match against MC.
Ness.
---
DEFENCE, DEFENCE
"Alas, history is nothing but a lie agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte.

That may be true KH, but the idea here is that Vince may not have gotten the same treatment that Cloud and Sep get, and if you treat it as he did, then your numbers are inaccurate.

Who in the WORLD said I was using numbers? It's called an 'asterisk'.
---
*is Karma Hunter*

Off the top of my head,
Mario overall.
DK's match against MC.
Ness.


I take it you didn't read my post.
---
*is Karma Hunter*

Sure it did. Just not a large one based on Donkey Kong...

And donkey kong couldn't increase? We didn't even have a solid reading on him last year.
---
"The idiots on gamefaqs are easy to find because they always quote themselves" - dragoontheguy

I'm still not convinced that FF:AC's the reason Vincent performed like that; I think he over-performed, though the level is controversial and the reason isn't solely FF:AC. Just to make a list of reasons...


1) FF:AC - it's been noted many times already.

2) rSFF - we know FF7 > CT here, that's a fact. What we also know is games =/= characters, of course, but that's still an edge that Vincent has over Crono.

3) Coming from the same fanbase - I know, sounds alot like #2, but this is a different direction of it. People argued that Vincent being an optional character would hurt him, and I think that it's a fair enough argument (though it doesn't necessarily hurt him much), especially among the more casual voters. Now, I would think that there is a much greater correlation of people who know Vincent if you were to compare RPG fans' knowledge to the rest's knowledge. The large majority of RPG fans that come here, judging by past contests, are fans of Square...and Square's two biggest games here (and, arguably, elsewhere too) are Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 7. That means being optional no longer hinders Vincent like it once did (assuming it ever did in the first place) due to the voter pool being more likely to know him than other voting pools he's had (which very well could have been the deciding factor in Vincent/Squall...just a thought).

4) Generational difference - one thing most/all of us want to see if there's ever another Game Contest is the games of different generations to face each other early and often; no more of the divisions-by-era bologna, so to speak. The main reason, from what I've gathered, is so we can see if the older games can hold up to the newer games...and, aside from a select few gems, I doubt they can. FF7 is on a system that's a generation newer than CT...not really a back-breaker in CT's case, but it's that much more against it.


...four good reasons that, when coupled together, can make for a compelling argument about the Devil Division. I don't know how much it should be adjusted by, though I'm not up for seeing it be adjusted by leaps and bounds...but I think something SHOULD be done with it, especially if the ToC shows signs of FF:AC affecting it.
---
Hillary Clinton: We need to treat violent video games the way we treat tobacco or alcohol.
Lewis Black: Namely as valued contributors to our re-election fund.

I take it you didn't read my post.

Not really. Hell, I don't even know what you guys are talking about. I just saw you questioning the Nintendo boost.
---
DEFENCE, DEFENCE
"Alas, history is nothing but a lie agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte.

I believe that Donkey Kong did increase. However, an overperformance of the level he displayed would be far too great if we consider a significant increase for Master Chief.

---
Warden: Talk! What is SeeD all about!?
Squall: ...Flower.

And Donkey Kong gained that much in one year?

Why not? It's not like he went from fodder to a noble nine buster or anything. 26% up to what, just about 30% on bl? This contest has seen crazier things.
---
"The idiots on gamefaqs are easy to find because they always quote themselves" - dragoontheguy

I just saw you questioning the Nintendo boost.

No, you didn't.
---
*is Karma Hunter*

Who in the WORLD said I was using numbers? It's called an 'asterisk'.

This isnt proper though. No one used steriods or had more or the same opportunities as the next guy.

KB

This isnt proper though. No one used steriods or had more or the same opportunities as the next guy.

...what?
---
*is Karma Hunter*

*Rereads*
And honestly, for all that we've seen in this contest, there's no *real* evidence of a 'Nintendo Boost' either.

...

there's no *real* evidence of a 'Nintendo Boost' either.

...

no *real* evidence of a 'Nintendo Boost' either.

...

*Looks at you for an explanation*
---
DEFENCE, DEFENCE
"Alas, history is nothing but a lie agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte.

*Looks at you for an explanation*

Read the post. The WHOLE post.
---
*is Karma Hunter*

"Off the top of my head,
Mario overall.
DK's match against MC.
Ness."


Kirby over Tidus? Bowser coming close to Snake?


---
"The PS2 had 12,000,000 pre orders. To give you an idea of how many people that is that's over half of the world population." - DifferentialEquation

I say we don't adjust Vincent at all. everyone knows what happened and can figure it out without having exact numbers. besides, any adjustment you make is an educated guess at best.

---
.

Mario by the hour:
14:00 | 56.56%
13:00 | 55.68%
12:00 | 53.78%
11:00 | 51.44%
10:00 | 52.73%
09:00 | 54.00%
08:00 | 52.93%
07:00 | 53.63%
06:00 | 53.84%
05:00 | 53.87%
04:00 | 54.85%
03:00 | 51.62%
02:00 | 51.21%
01:00 | 51.27%

He's on fire.
---
"It shall be engraved upon your soul! Divine Assault: Nibelung Valesti!" ~ Lenneth Valkyrie

Exactly. Just asterisk it, that's as good an adjustment as any.
---
*is Karma Hunter*

*Reads the rest*

Torture the numbers and they'll tell you anything you want to know. Have characters take convenient drops at will, and you're just dealing with a few anomalies, not one concentrated boost across the field.

This doesn't help your case...

Yeah, it's possible--but I hardly believe anyone here would buy it. It's possible Cloud could beat Link and have nothing to do with AC. And the same goes for Vincent.

But I find that *highly* improbable.

Ok, there we go. I get what you're saying.
---
DEFENCE, DEFENCE
"Alas, history is nothing but a lie agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte.

On topic with the actual match, Mario looks primed to blow through 54% like a cakewalk and keep on trucking.
---
*is Karma Hunter*

MARIO HATE PUNY SAIYAN
MARIO SMASH
---
DEFENCE, DEFENCE
"Alas, history is nothing but a lie agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte.

while the result sucks, the stats are going to look pretty accurate. at least one thing is cool, I guess.
---
.

Maybe so, but to deny the possibility is foolish.

(referring to AC)

I'm not caught up yet, but people are WAY overestimating this boost. There are so many things wrong with giving it more than just a little credit. First, it's a movie. Second, it's in Japanese. Third it hasn't even been released here yet, and fourth Vincent didn't do THAT well. 55.5 on Crono is good, yeah, but I don't know why people want to jump to japanese AC boost rather than new/old sff first. Crono hasn't been looking so great for nearly the entire contest, yet people want to credit Advent Children, something that has no business being credited for more than slightly now for that "bad" performance, which wasn't even that extreme.

---
Revenge is a dish best served cold. ~ Old Klingon Proverb

Yes, Crono hasn't done so well based on Vincent and the Chief, but if he was as weak as those two made him look, he probably would've lost to Mega Man, and Mario would be beating him as badly as Snake, if not worse.
---
"A strong man doesn't need to read the future. He makes his own."
"Building the future and keeping the past alive are the same thing."

And I never said that the AC effect was definitely there. I just think it's ridiculous to deny the possibility of one.
---
"A strong man doesn't need to read the future. He makes his own."
"Building the future and keeping the past alive are the same thing."

As it stands a very, very small percentage of gamefaq goers have likely seen ac at this point. If it was actually released in english then it would be a different story. As it stands I really doubt enough people voting in the polls have seen it for it to make that much of a difference.
---
"The idiots on gamefaqs are easy to find because they always quote themselves" - dragoontheguy

... You can just go ahead and ignore that I said as it stands twice. I'm too lazy to edit it >_>.
---
"The idiots on gamefaqs are easy to find because they always quote themselves" - dragoontheguy

It's enough people to put FF7 back in the top 3 faqs... I think it's enough to make a small difference for Vincent, but we're only talking like half a % here.
---
I once made a sig bet with TRE that Ganon wasn't actually over 31 on BL. The jury's still out on the pigman, but props to TRE 'cause I'm a believer again.

Is half a percent really worth adjusting at all? That's minuscule.
---
"The idiots on gamefaqs are easy to find because they always quote themselves" - dragoontheguy

Honestly, plenty of FFVII fans know that Advent Children is out there, and nothing is preventing them from getting it if they really want it.
---
"A strong man doesn't need to read the future. He makes his own."
"Building the future and keeping the past alive are the same thing."

No, a half percent isn't really worth adjusting, but I'm not entirely convinced that it was. It very well could have been more, or it could have had literally no effect whatsoever. Again, I'm just waiting for Cloud/Link, even if it ends up providing more questions than it does answers.
---
*is Karma Hunter*

What Chichiri said. FF7 is there because obviously quite a bit of GameFAQs goers have seen or are intereted in seeing Advent Children. The presence of potential is undeniable. It's whether or not it can actually make a difference is the real question. And as someone who changed their vote because of it first-hand, I say yes. It's not farfetched.
---
Uh oh, they started moving their legs back and forth while standing in place. You're about to fight aren't you? - My friend watching me play FFT