Snake needed to at least triple Sora before I would say he was fodder.
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17 have challenged Nintendo in the handheld market, 17 have failed. (see quote for list)

So what? you can't compare two matches with completely different fanbases at the winning end. Sora just doesn't amount to enough to make a character supposedly stronger just because they crushed him.
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"It's not the great who are strong, it's the strong who are great." - Albel Nox, Star Ocean: Till the End of Time

Sometimes I think the term 'fodder' is thrown around way too much...

Oh yah it is, because it sounds cool.
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"It's not the great who are strong, it's the strong who are great." - Albel Nox, Star Ocean: Till the End of Time

This makes me ask this again, since I got lookin' at the 2k3 stats: Bowser or Zelda, who wins that? In 2k3, Zelda would have got 56.52% on Kirby, and consider there's been arguments for Zelda-over-Ganon while Ganon is a small statistical favorite against Bowser. Since then, it's been argued that Zelda/Bowser/Kirby has gained too, so it remains interesting and possibly solely a matter of who gained more...

...I've begun to question if Bowser really will outdo Zelda or not, myself.
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Hillary Clinton: We need to treat violent video games the way we treat tobacco or alcohol.
Lewis Black: Namely as valued contributors to our re-election fund.

For that matter...what would Sp2k5 Bowser be expected to get on 2k4 Vivi?
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Only the Snake is the true hero. Solid Snake to the Final Four!

For Bowser/Zelda it depends which way the SFF would go and I'd have to say that Zelda would take it.
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"It's not the great who are strong, it's the strong who are great." - Albel Nox, Star Ocean: Till the End of Time

Although that would discredit Bowser over Snake >_> and there I go contradicting myself.
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"It's not the great who are strong, it's the strong who are great." - Albel Nox, Star Ocean: Till the End of Time

Hmph, this match is a lot closer than I thought it would be. I think Kirby would give Squall a damn close match now.

As for Bowser/Snae, Snake with 53.57%.
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That... was her final mission. And like a true soldier, she saw it through the end.
ZSB [aX]

Huzzah for Bowser finally taking a hold on the match. I still have faith in Bowser taking down Snake. Sora just folded up against Snake... I highly doubt that Bowser will do the same.

About this match, I think it's all Kirby. Besides the boost for Nintendo characters, he also has his own game. How he handled Tidus is no joke. I think that was more Kirby than Tidus. Huzzah for the little puffball doing well!
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Squall=Bowser>Kirby


KB

I have difficulty with the idea of Kirby = Zelda, as great as it would be, so I'd have to give Snake the advantage. It doesn't have to do so much with what he did to Sora as it does with that little statistic.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

Whoo-hoo! Kirby won an update!
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

I think most of us would agree that Kirby would give Squall a run this year, perhaps even win outright (most of us agreeing doesn't make us right, but it is something).

So Bowser would very probably beat Squall.
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www.SC2K5.com
www.sc2k5.com/gallery

As much as I love Squall to bear Bowser..

Here's what I think it is:
Bowser > Squall >= Kirby

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"Life...Dreams...Hope...Where'd they come from? And where are they headed...? These things...I'm going to destroy!!" -Kefka

Heh, anything to sell Squall short.

And Kirby just won his second update in a row! Go puffball!
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

Votals Time

At 10:30:00
Kirby vs. Bowser Votals: 32202
Mario vs. Zero Votals: 52288
Snake vs. Sora Votals: 38908

Damn.. It's even worse than yesterday!

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"Life...Dreams...Hope...Where'd they come from? And where are they headed...? These things...I'm going to destroy!!" -Kefka

and Kirby just got squashed the last update.. Man, I was wishing for a comeback! =)

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"Life...Dreams...Hope...Where'd they come from? And where are they headed...? These things...I'm going to destroy!!" -Kefka

For the record, based on Spring Contest Bowser, Kirby currently stands at 31.64%, almost equal to Squall 2003/2004. Kirby does have a tendency to rise up to the level of his competition the next year...

It also puts Tidus at 26.80%, about .4% lower than his 2004 adjusted value. Ryu is at 28.54% on Link based on that same Bowser. Kirby would be expected to get nearly 55% on Ryu based on these numbers.

Kirby = Sonic, eh?
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

why the heck are vote totals dropping worse than marconi's stock
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What a 42 carat plonker you really are~del boy only fools and horses

I wouldn't be surprised if Kirby was equal in strength to Zelda. While Zelda may have her series to her name and strength, Kirby actually has a more dedicated fanbase. I wouldn't be surprised if Kirby gave her a run for her money. This is certainly not the same Kirby as in the past.
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

I'm not saying Kirby wouldn't keep it close. I just don't think he'd win outright.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

To compare Votals:

At 10:40:00:
Kirby vs. Bowser: 33095
Samus vs. Ganon: 38476

It's trailing by more than 5K .. not looking too good..

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"Life...Dreams...Hope...Where'd they come from? And where are they headed...? These things...I'm going to destroy!!" -Kefka

While Zelda may have her series to her name and strength, Kirby actually has a more dedicated fanbase

Ganon apparently doesn't have much of a fanbase either, but Samus couldn't do much to him SFF-wise.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

anyway the xsts are more like guidelines for a decent bracket right?

well can they be bended to make the worst character look as though he can beat the best.(ie tanner>link)
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What a 42 carat plonker you really are~del boy only fools and horses

Kirby >>>>>> Zelda by far!!! .. But in contest stregnth wise..

I'll give Zelda a slight edge..

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"Life...Dreams...Hope...Where'd they come from? And where are they headed...? These things...I'm going to destroy!!" -Kefka

Oh, and for the record, Tidus would be expected to beat Rikku with 52.84% here.

Take THAT, partystar!
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

Looks Like I haven't posted in a while, but all I have to say is I've lost my faith in Bowser > Snake, but gained my faith in Mario > Samus.

"Ganon apparently doesn't have much of a fanbase either, but Samus couldn't do much to him SFF-wise."

Thats because Ganondorfs fanbase (the Zelda series fanbase in general) has shown that they would only abandon him in favor of Link and not much else. A Zelda vs Ganondorf match probably wouldn't have SFF and would be pretty close.

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Can't think of a good sig.

And as much as people were against it, I would have loved to see Peach in this contest. She would have been a much bigger threat to Dante than Terra was. And I'm a Terra fan before you even go there...
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Oh and one other thing..

Sora just doesn't amount to enough to make a character supposedly stronger just because they crushed him.


And why not? Though, I personally do think Snake SFF'D Sora (Don't flame me >_>)

Well, yeah, because Terra is bad fodder. Peach would be better fodder, but I can't see her much higher than 20% on Link.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

peach could be very strong indeed. after all she's you're prize at the end of a mario game
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What a 42 carat plonker you really are~del boy only fools and horses

Thats because Ganondorfs fanbase (the Zelda series fanbase in general) has shown that they would only abandon him in favor of Link and not much else. A Zelda vs Ganondorf match probably wouldn't have SFF and would be pretty close.

Yeah, I know...my point was that Kirby's having a dedicate fanbase wouldn't win him a match against Zelda.

And as much as people were against it, I would have loved to see Peach in this contest. She would have been a much bigger threat to Dante than Terra was. And I'm a Terra fan before you even go there...

Yeah, but Peach's range isn't very big...at least as strong as DK, but at most as strong as Luigi? While that is pretty good this year, I don't know if it would be enough to beat Dante, who might've had a boost of his own.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

And why not? Though, I personally do think Snake SFF'D Sora (Don't flame me >_>)

This madness upsets me. If Bowser beats Snake, it'll be because he's more powerful than 65% on Sora, not that there was SFF.

And the votals doing poorly for this match are evident in that it's Nintendo/Nintendo and that the characters aren't the biggest of draws. Obviously Samus and Ganondorf are bigger draws than Bowser and Kirby, respectively. And of course it's not liable to touch yesterday's match, which while still low was a NN member versus Square (Disney).
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Only the Snake is the true hero. Solid Snake to the Final Four!

Well, yeah, because Terra is bad fodder. Peach would be better fodder, but I can't see her much higher than 20% on Link.

Huh? Peach as fodder? Weaker than DK and Wario? So you think Zelda >> Peach? I don't think so. The LoZ series may be more popular than the Mario series, but Peach is more to her series than Zelda is to hers. Peach has done plenty for herself to garner herself a fanbase. She's far removed from being the damsel in distress. She's a fan favorite of the Mario Kart games and other side series games and was almost as loveable as Bowser in SMRPG. Not to mention that she has SSBM in her wings. Luigi has obviously been underrated in the stats. I can see Peach at least on his level.
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

eh.. I take Zelda > Peach in an instant and never look back..

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"Life...Dreams...Hope...Where'd they come from? And where are they headed...? These things...I'm going to destroy!!" -Kefka

Although I prefer Peach > Zelda as a character..

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"Life...Dreams...Hope...Where'd they come from? And where are they headed...? These things...I'm going to destroy!!" -Kefka

I'd expect a Zelda/Peach match to go similar to Mario/Link in 2002.
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Look at my Winter Contest 2K4/2K5 Analysis Fanfic: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=579546
End of message. ~ Garsha

peach must be one of the last few characters with midcarder power to have never mad the field. she could kick meryl's ass in a contest setting no probleme.
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What a 42 carat plonker you really are~del boy only fools and horses

Oh, I never said Peach > Zelda. I was emphasizing that Peach is even more to the Mario series than Zelda is to her series. Peach has a lot more going for her. I'd imagine the gap between her and Zelda would be MUCH smaller than the gap between Mario and Link.
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

I personally think it would be larger.
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To settle my score with you, I came dancing all the way up from the fires of hell.

To be honest, I don't see why anyone would vote for Peach. Seriously, she's not hot or cute, she doesn't do anything then get kidnapped. The only ones who would vote for Peach are the crazy SSBM fanboys, which means that she will be a middle tier character.
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When this happened, all of us got PWND by Smurf
http://www.freewebs.com/vgcg/Knuckles.jpg

WTF at today's vote totals.

Kirby was leading for a time huh? GG
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By your powers combined, I am...

Zelda would definitely beat Peach. Peach doesn't even have enough of a loyal fanbase to get her in the contest. Really shows you which character is more important to the fans of each game.

Plus the name Zelda is instantly recognized.
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The only thing O.J. is guilty of is mercilessly slashing through all defenders to score touchdowns. - ImNotYou
Proud member of the Hylian Knights--59/72 in the 2k5 SC -- XBL GT: Vance Mendoza

Zelda should get at least that much percentage against Peach. While Peach does deserve a try, I can't imagine her being stronger than Wario.

Well, at least Zelda vs. Peach would be better than Luigi vs. Aryll...

*sees partystar glare at me*

*runs*
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Look at my Winter Contest 2K4/2K5 Analysis Fanfic: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=579546
End of message. ~ Garsha

...nothing unexpected here. Both characters equally overperforming last round, blah blah blah.

And hopefully we can put the relevance of vote totals to rest now, especially in matches involving the same company. Although, to be fair, there aren't two Nintendo characters that are as polar opposites in terms of appeal as Kirby and Bowser. Okay, so that's like comparing McDonald's and Burger King, but what the **** ever.
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"You can't have gone over a kilometer up. 1500 meters, tops." -Samus Aran
"I'll express my love to you slowly, later." -Setzer Gabbiani

I don't see Peach doing anything notable. She's just not that likeable. No, I wouldn't pick her over DK or Wario.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

The only Mario character that's ever been in one of these that I'd pick Peach over is the one that isn't even Nintendo property. Figures.
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"You can't have gone over a kilometer up. 1500 meters, tops." -Samus Aran
"I'll express my love to you slowly, later." -Setzer Gabbiani

I can't see Peach being anything. Maybe around Wario level. I've never seen her to be as likeable as Zelda and most of the Mario fanboys I see consider her to be a ditz and hate her.