Yet they have other things to draw strength some besides Melee, unlike Ness.

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Magus screwed my bracket over. Yay!

Please. Characters from the same company does not automatically mean SFF.

You cannot by any means say it isn't there either. I'm not saying that either side is right at this point and it really lies in what you believe about Ganon more than anything. That's why this match isn't nearly as conclusive as one might think. Samus could either be getting a good bit of SFF here or she could be getting little to nothing. We really won't know until later.

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“What is it that is most precious to you, Cloud? I’ll enjoy stripping that from you!” – Sephiroth

And down below 60% goes Samus.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

Please... they are in the same game, which happens to be the most popular Nintendo game of this current generation.

That doesn't always mean SFF will take place. Look at cloud and sephiroth.
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"There is little, if any, SFF in this match. The Samus fanbase doesn't overlap with the Ganondorf fanbase very well."

No, and neither does the Bowser fanbase over lap with Ness' much, which is why Ness didn't totally blow out all of our expectations in 2k4, right?
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No balls to be bustin', no fightin', no cussin'... just a love for a drug called contest statin'.

Yet they have other things to draw strength some besides Melee, unlike Ness.

No one said anything about Ness.

The point is, a major of why many people intimately know these characters is SSBM.

There is SFF going on.


KB

I'm not saying there is no SFF. I'm saying there is very little SFF.

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Magus screwed my bracket over. Yay!

There is little, if any, SFF in this match. The Samus fanbase doesn't overlap with the Ganondorf fanbase very well.

What are you talking about? Their is plenty of overlap due to SSBM alone. Not to mention the many people that like both the Metroid and Zelda series. There ARE a lot of us, contrary to what you may believe.
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Ganon breaks 40%.
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Leon's Quest For Ultimate Glory:
1. Gordon Freeman; 2. Mega Man

"Yet they have other things to draw strength some besides Melee, unlike Ness."

Pehaps you've never heard of Earthbound.
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No balls to be bustin', no fightin', no cussin'... just a love for a drug called contest statin'.

What are you talking about? Their is plenty of overlap due to SSBM alone. Not to mention the many people that like both the Metroid and Zelda series. There ARE a lot of us, contrary to what you may believe.

That's just it. They each have two different series to draw power from. SFF will be minimal.

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Magus screwed my bracket over. Yay!

Obviously, but we don't know how significant it is, if it's even significant at all.

Indeed. That's the main issue here more than anything, especially since the results are at a point where either could actually be correct.

Well, seeing Ganondorf do 3% worse than Sonic on a common opponent twice...Maybe he's the one who overperformed in the Spring.

That could be a possibility. I always thought that in the back of my head, I just never said anything.

That's fair enough, but samus shouldn't be written off just yet.

Well anytime I do something like that, it'll be bias more than anything. Heh.

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“What is it that is most precious to you, Cloud? I’ll enjoy stripping that from you!” – Sephiroth

They each have two different series to draw power from. SFF will be minimal.

So...Link didn't SFF Yoshi or Fox?
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

Pehaps you've never heard of Earthbound.

Ness barely draws any strnegth from that game. Melee is pretty mcuh all he has going for him.

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Magus screwed my bracket over. Yay!

What are you talking about? Their is plenty of overlap due to SSBM alone. Not to mention the many people that like both the Metroid and Zelda series. There ARE a lot of us, contrary to what you may believe.

The problem is figuring out if the overlap significantly affects the matches outcome. We don't know for sure yet. If someoneo outside loz sff'd gannon then I'd have no problem believing sff, but as it stands we don't know how well he withstands other nintendo characters outside his series.
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Characters on the DS. Kirby anyone?

Hmm. Good point. I had forgotten about Kirby, but the characters that really stand out more than anything within this "Nintendo boost" is all the Mario characters -- Super Mario 64 DS, yo.

Although it could be DS characters more than anything. But I've always doubted the ability of a mere demo, even if it was packaged with DS systems.

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“What is it that is most precious to you, Cloud? I’ll enjoy stripping that from you!” – Sephiroth

So...Link didn't SFF Yoshi or Fox?

Link can SFF character outside of his series, games, and company. He is not Samus.

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Magus screwed my bracket over. Yay!

Conclusion, there is nothing about this match that we can draw conclusions on. We can speculate, but there could be a number of things going on behind the scenes. We can only wait for Samus/Mario to draw conclusions.
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

But you just completely contradicted your own point. Just because they're from different series does not automatically mean SFF will be minimal. Heck, if you think Mario SFF'd DK to death because they were in the same game 20 years ago, you're crazy.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

Oh, by the way, nice job with the match pic today. Looks good.

And VERY nice touch with the exclamation over Sora's head in the pic. That's the kind of thing that nets you a couple extra votes.

Anyway, Ganondorf is doing great today. I smell little-to-no SFF here. Looks like LoZ SFF canceled out Samus being stronger SFF. Or, just that Ganon is strong enough to hold his own, which is cool. Samus/Mario is going to be awesome

Speaking of Mario, over 80% had him in the Elite 8. That's support right there.
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SC2K5: Samus is going all the way!
Samus vs. Ganondorf - Bracket: Samus - Vote: Ganon (60/68)

Brett... if there is little or no SFF going on...

Then is Squall > Gannondorf by 2%?



KB

you guys can argue SFF / no SFF until you're blue in the face, but you're not going to know today for sure and probably not ever going to know. the only way we'll have any idea is if Samus beats Mario.

it's a shame Snake got that picture in this round. it would be so much better with Bowser, both in picture and because he might actually need a pic advantage vs. him as opposed to Sora.

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http://picturesofwalls.com

Then is Squall > Gannondorf by 2%?

I wouldn't compare anything this year to 2k3 after seeing what Mario did to Zero. Samus/Squall probably would play out COMPLETELY different this year.
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Although it could be DS characters more than anything. But I've always doubted the ability of a mere demo, even if it was packaged with DS systems.

I somewhat doubt that it can have a huge affect on her strength, but it could have. I'm just saying that this shouldn't immediately be written off as SFF.
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But you just completely contradicted your own point. Just because they're from different series does not automatically mean SFF will be minimal. Heck, if you think Mario SFF'd DK to death because they were in the same game 20 years ago, you're crazy.

And you're still assuming that same company automatically means lots of SFF.

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Magus screwed my bracket over. Yay!

Seeing as how Squall seemed alot stronger in 2003, and Ganon has boosted since then, I think Ganon would easily beat Squall now.
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SC2K5: Samus is going all the way!
Samus vs. Ganondorf - Bracket: Samus - Vote: Ganon (60/68)

What therealmnn and Moltar said.

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Magus screwed my bracket over. Yay!

And you're still assuming that same company automatically means lots of SFF.

Uh...No. I said that there probably wouldn't be much SFF at all here. I just think it's ridiculous to say "Oh, Link SFF'd characters from games nothing like his. That's different." Bull.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

Square is to 2k3 as nintendo is to this contest. Almost all of it's characters were on steroids.
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as for Mario/Samus:

Mario was very impressive in his trashing of Zero, but look at Mega Man. he looked pretty bad vs. Leon, and if MM went down it would make sense that Zero would too. add to that that we haven't had a good reading on Zero since 2k3 and who knows where he's at. I know I'd take Ganon over him in a second.

Samus today is doing what I expected. if Mario beats her, it's going to be due to his own strength, not because of rSFF or whatever.
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http://picturesofwalls.com

Uh...No. I said that there probably wouldn't be much SFF at all here. I just think it's ridiculous to say "Oh, Link SFF'd characters from games nothing like his. That's different." Bull.

Why? Link SFFs any character affiliated with him in some way. based on performanes against Vivi and Auron, Sephiroth seems to be unable to SFF even Square characters.

Different characters don't SFF the same.

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Magus screwed my bracket over. Yay!

Seeing as how Squall seemed alot stronger in 2003, and Ganon has boosted since then, I think Ganon would easily beat Squall now.

Seeming, is not the same as being.

And Ganon seemed to be the one overrated in this past spring.

While a raise for him is not questionable, he still lost to Magus, which makes him SEEM not able to Squash Squall.


KB

Heh, it's funny that from all the matches that have gone insanely wrong, this one is actually near what it was expected by the stats. A little weird, if you ask me.

Anyways, I think this proves that Ganon has actually gone up, and it's actually a nice boost.

There's SFF in this match? IMO, hell yeah. Just see the low vote totals in this match. It looks like a lot of people decided not to vote because of both being Nintendo. Also, I think there could be a strong SFF SSBM. The whole picture is of SSBM, which someone that doesn't come daily to the site, my vote for who they like more in the SSBM game, and not actually in the other games. Granted, i'm just speculating, but it can help. (We can't determine which way is going anyways)

So there's two reasons of this match going this way, accepting that Ganon got a nice boost:

1) SFF
2) Samus got a boost too.

You pick, but that's how I see this match. *awaits flames from all over the topic*

*runs*
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That's right. Cloud N. Candy would get a NEGATIVE percentage, and RPGuy's extrapolated calculator would crash. - therealmnm

Sephiroth SFF'd Auron, unless you're trying to tell me Ganondorf is getting rSFF today. The main reason I didn't think that Samus would SFF Ganon much is that they're relatively close in strength so fanbase overlap isn't as profound as it could be. I think Samus would SFF the likes of Donkey Kong or Fox, personally.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

Sephiroth SFF'd Auron, unless you're trying to tell me Ganondorf is getting rSFF today.

Based on some people's logic, the SFF should've been much more.

The main reason I didn't think that Samus would SFF Ganon much is that they're relatively close in strength so fanbase overlap isn't as profound as it could be. I think Samus would SFF the likes of Donkey Kong or Fox, personally.

Agreed.

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Magus screwed my bracket over. Yay!

Samus is just no performing as well as she should to be the best in this bracket.


KB

Samus is just no performing as well as she should to be the best in this bracket.

...You keep saying this without giving any real reasons other then "lol huge sff rofls". What gives?
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Anyone who thinks no SFF exists in a fool. I say its somewhere around 10%.
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Leon's Quest For Ultimate Glory:
1. Gordon Freeman; 2. Mega Man

You know, if Samus keeps up this pace, she might not finish ahead of Sephiroth after all. She only got 53% on that last five minute update.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

I'm just saying that this shouldn't immediately be written off as SFF.

The only reason I believe it could be SFF is because of Ganon's match against Sephiroth in the spring, although that could have been an overperformance more than anything. But I suppose the best we can do is wait.

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“What is it that is most precious to you, Cloud? I’ll enjoy stripping that from you!” – Sephiroth

10 Ganondorf 34.72%
11 Zero 33.96%


Gannondorf and Zero are right next to eachother in Strength.

Look at yesterdays poll.

Look at todays poll.

Give Ganondorf 1% of SFF to be fair, and tell me what you think.


KB

Look at megaman on leon. Why couldn't zero have dropped the same?
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Kyle, you cant think Samus is doing poorly and 'Dorf is overrated at the same time. If there is SFF, Samus is doing poorly and Dorf is looking great. If there isnt, Samus is looking damn good and Dorf is looking bad.
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Leon's Quest For Ultimate Glory:
1. Gordon Freeman; 2. Mega Man

For the record, Samus was projected to get 59.01% in this match based on a 2003 Ganon. It would 55.11% based on a spring Ganon.

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“What is it that is most precious to you, Cloud? I’ll enjoy stripping that from you!” – Sephiroth

10 Ganondorf 34.72%
11 Zero 33.96%


Gannondorf and Zero are right next to eachother in Strength.

Look at yesterdays poll.

Look at todays poll.

Give Ganondorf 1% of SFF to be fair, and tell me what you think.

Samus wins. factor in the very possible Zero drop and Ganondorf incraese, and Mario is dead.

Although I do think Mario is winning. It's sad, but I've given up hope. As long as he beats Sephiroth, I'll be okay with it.

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Magus screwed my bracket over. Yay!

...And zero's 2k4 value is based off of speculation from megaman vs. link. There hasn't been an accurrate read on him since 2k3. Gannon was an even bigger question mark. 2k4 sff adjusted stats aren't useful in this situation.
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I thought its been proven that Snake just sucked last year and that the MM/Link SFF doesnt exist.

Thus its actually
Ganondorf: 34.72
Zero: 30.56
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Leon's Quest For Ultimate Glory:
1. Gordon Freeman; 2. Mega Man

Crono > Mario > Samus

^_^
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Link contains Harry Potter and the HBP Spoilers:
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2502717/1/

The man who makes the impossible possible, the legend himself, Solid Snake shall reach the Final Four!
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

I believe Zero's unadjusted ranking is the far more accurate of the two, myself. For the most part, the unadjusted stats for the 20XX Division has had plenty going for them.

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“What is it that is most precious to you, Cloud? I’ll enjoy stripping that from you!” – Sephiroth