Squall I can see beating Tifa, Tifa would beat Kirby though.

I always had Tifa losing to Sonic, she's good upper-card material but not on the fringe of the "Noble Nine".
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Today's subliminal thought is:

I have no problem thinking Luigi 2k5 is considerably stronger than Luigi 2k3. when everyone else goes up, it's pretty easy to guess that Luigi would too.

Neither do I. I'd put him at around 29%, compared to his 25% in 03. But that still doesn't put Tifa above Squall, and Yoshi got the same boost Luigi did.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

Thing is, most people are calling this a "Nintendo increase". So if Luigi 2k5 > Luigi 2k3 by a decent margin, it follows that Kirby 2k5 > Kirby 2k3 by a decent margin.

And Yoshi > Luigi, who Tifa squeaked by. I really can't see how at this point you'd call Kirby or Yoshi > Tifa to be unrealistic.
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Master Chief's path to the championship: Round 3: (2) Crono.
Halo 2 + 7 vote loss vs Frog = 7 vote win vs Crono

Btw, if you adjust Frog down to Liquid's Sp2k5 value, where does that put Samus (2k5)?
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Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

Squall I can see beating Tifa, Tifa would beat Kirby though.

So, what would you predict each of them would get on Squall? Keep in mind that Kirby got 45% last year, and has seemingly increased significantly since then.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

Still, Tifa doing 7+% worse than Squall on Luigi doesn't make her look so great... Nintendo increase or not (which Kirby would also get, so it's somewhat self-defeating). Seeing as Squall only got 45% on Kirby in the first place.

To be exact, Tifa did 6.85% worse on Luigi than Squall did in 2003. Now it doesn't have to all do with the Nintendo increase this year. There were some rather interesting things about Luigi being underrated before any sort of boost happened. However much that was was though is hard to say. But when you combine that with a Nintendo boost, you'll find Luigi being considerably higher than any of his previous values may have suggested. It was already hard to swallow him being lower than Donkey Kong to begin with.

I don't believe Tifa "bombed" at all, myself. I believe she'll rank above what Aerith's old 2003 value before everything is all said and done. The only way I could see her "bombing" was in comparison to the expectations she had after Round 1, which was a serious threat to the "elite" group of characters. I couldn't ever imagine her losing to Kirby. Her performance against Luigi spoke more of Luigi's strength as opposed to Tifa's weakness, at least to me.

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http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5980/12mw.gif
Both knowledgeable and experienced, he can get past any tight situation without so much as breaking a sweat.

I believe that Kirby 2k5 could beat Squall 2k5. I'm not doubting that; in fact, I've even said that he would and taken a few shots for it. but Luigi was always stronger than Kirby and Luigi lost to Tifa. if you assume the same boost (Kirby might have a bit of a bigger one, but not much), then Tifa still beats him.
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http://picturesofwalls.com

I would actually take Tifa over Squall, myself.

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http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5980/12mw.gif
Both knowledgeable and experienced, he can get past any tight situation without so much as breaking a sweat.

ooh, I lied, Kirby is maybe a point above Luigi. I'd still take Tifa regardless.
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http://picturesofwalls.com

Since 2K3, Luigi has had SuperStar Saga, Super Mario 64 DS, Various other Mario games (Mario Party, ect.), and is also subject the the Nintendo increase. I can easily see him becoming much stronger.

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Magus screwed my bracket over. Yay!

Btw, if you adjust Frog down to Liquid's Sp2k5 value, where does that put Samus (2k5)?


34.5%, just a little weaker than Spring Bowser.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

34.5%, just a little weaker than Spring Bowser.

Wow, this means Samus/Mario will actually be very close.
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Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

Now it doesn't have to all do with the Nintendo increase this year. There were some rather interesting things about Luigi being underrated before any sort of boost happened. However much that was was though is hard to say. But when you combine that with a Nintendo boost, you'll find Luigi being considerably higher than any of his previous values may have suggested. It was already hard to swallow him being lower than Donkey Kong to begin with.


What does any of that have to do with his performance on Squall?

And anyone who talks about SM64DS...EVERY SINGLE SUPER MARIO ADVANCE GAME OUTSOLD IT. Hell, a couple of them more than doubled it. SM64DS was not a huge deal.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

Wow, this means Samus/Mario will actually be very close.

It also means Samus will lose to Solid Snake. Snake to the ToC!
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

You mean Ganon.

It also means Samus will lose to Solid Snake. Snake to the ToC!

That would be so awesome.
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Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

What does any of that have to do with his performance on Squall?

I never said it had anything to do with how he performed in 2003. I merely stated that he had increasing considerably since then. Saying Tifa would lose to Squall or whatever by comparing those two matches is absurd.

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http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5980/12mw.gif
Both knowledgeable and experienced, he can get past any tight situation without so much as breaking a sweat.

...but in the various Super Mario Advance games Luigi hasn't a primary role. In Super Mario 64 DS he is very important, you need him to get certain stars... and by the way, he's the best character in the game...
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Currently playing: Killer7 [GC] + Yoshi Touch & Go [DS]

You mean Ganon.

Yeah, but people are more ready to underrate Snake than to underrate Ganon, for whatever reason.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

SM64DS was not a huge deal.

There is absolutely no way you could even begin to say something like that.

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http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5980/12mw.gif
Both knowledgeable and experienced, he can get past any tight situation without so much as breaking a sweat.

Actually, Ganon through un-adjusted Auron 2k4 would still lose to Samus, even with that 34.5% value.
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Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

I never said it had anything to do with how he performed in 2003. I merely stated that he had increasing considerably since then. Saying Tifa would lose to Squall or whatever by comparing those two matches is absurd.

No, it's not. Tifa got 53.36% on Luigi. Squall got 60.21% on Luigi. Luigi's boost would need to be of garantuan proportions to close that big of a gap.

There is absolutely no way you could even begin to say something like that.


Uh...why not? Pac-Man Collection on GBA outsold SM64DS.

...but in the various Super Mario Advance games Luigi hasn't a primary role. In Super Mario 64 DS he is very important, you need him to get certain stars... and by the way, he's the best character in the game...

SMA1: SMB2. Many agree that he's the best character in that game too, or at least second to Peach.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

But it's generally accepted that Auron was SFFed against Seph...right?

Actually, Ganon through un-adjusted Auron 2k4 would still lose to Samus, even with that 34.5% value.

Indeed...and Master Chief through DK through Vivi through Zelda through unadjusted Snake 2k4 would still lose to Frog through unadjusted Liquid Spring 2k5.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

I always thought Auron was significantly SFF'd against Seph, but Vivi made me a doubter...in any case, Seph's been so inconsistent in his matches I never took too much stock in them to begin with.
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Only the Snake is the true hero. Solid Snake to the Final Four!

Squall aside, Kirby and Yoshi have both consistently rated above Luigi. And Tifa beat Luigi... well... not so comfortably. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them make up that 3%.
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Master Chief's path to the championship: Round 3: (2) Crono.
Halo 2 + 7 vote loss vs Frog = 7 vote win vs Crono

But it's generally accepted that Auron was SFFed against Seph...right?

At least as accepted as it is that Vivi and Liquid were SFF'd by Seph.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

No, it's not. Tifa got 53.36% on Luigi. Squall got 60.21% on Luigi. Luigi's boost would need to be of garantuan proportions to close that big of a gap.

And it has been how many years now? Two? Are you telling me that it's impossible that Luigi was neither underrated nor capable of increasing by such an amount over a span of two years?

Uh...why not? Pac-Man Collection on GBA outsold SM64DS.

More sales does not mean that it'll increase someone more. There's a lot more to judge than just how well a particular game sold. This should be more than obvious. There's absolutely no way that you could possibly say for certain that SM64 DS hasn't done anything. Dante likely increased from his game that has barely sold 300,000 copies. If Samus increased, one would likely attribute it to Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, which sold significantly less than Super Mario 64 DS. There are far more things to consider than just the pure sales.

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http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5980/12mw.gif
Both knowledgeable and experienced, he can get past any tight situation without so much as breaking a sweat.

I'd take Tifa over Squall, for the sole reason that I think that including a Luigi increase, Squall isn't on 'roids like he was in 2k3 thanks to KHF. I'd still take Squall over Luigi, but not nearly as comfortably, and I'd imagine Tifa's FF7 factor would make up the difference.

I know it's hard for me to justify Tifa > Squall > Vincent at this point, as it's precarious as you can get, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Though I hope in the end that Squall > Vincent > Tifa, for terms of preference...
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Only the Snake is the true hero. Solid Snake to the Final Four!

SMA1: SMB2. Many agree that he's the best character in that game too, or at least second to Peach

Yes, but Super Mario Bros 2 is the weakest of the Mario Bros saga. And in its Advance remeake it was the very first to come out... so Luigi can't have received a boost because of that...

I think SM64DS helped him a little more than the other Nintendo characters' general boost. At least, I find no other reasons...
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Currently playing: Killer7 [GC] + Yoshi Touch & Go [DS]

In the end, Vincent > Squall > Tifa. That's what I'm calling.
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Master Chief's path to the championship: Round 3: (2) Crono.
Halo 2 + 7 vote loss vs Frog = 7 vote win vs Crono

I'm leaning towards Vincent > Tifa = Squall.
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Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

I don't know why everyone's so suprised about Luigi. We have NEVER had a direct read on him, have we? He was behind Link/Samus SFF in 2k3, and behind Link/Yoshi and Yoshi/Luigi SFF in 2k4. With a general increase, he can easily be justified.
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Only the Snake is the true hero. Solid Snake to the Final Four!

Luigi was never actually in Super Mario 64 either, unlike previous remakes where he had been playable in the original games. What with the uproar about Luigi not being playable in Mario 64 so many years back, I don't find that hard to believe he got an increase from the DS version far more than he did any of the GBA remakes.

And Nintendo did begin packaging Super Mario 64 DS with the Nintendo DS back in June, I believe.

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http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5980/12mw.gif
Both knowledgeable and experienced, he can get past any tight situation without so much as breaking a sweat.

He was behind Link/Samus SFF in 2k3, and behind Link/Yoshi and Yoshi/Luigi SFF in 2k4. With a general increase, he can easily be justified.

I agree. It isn't like Luigi has had a very concrete ranking in any particular contest. RPGuy did the best job of pointing this out with his enormous analysis of it. I think it's very easy to see Luigi "rising" by such large amounts.

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http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5980/12mw.gif
Both knowledgeable and experienced, he can get past any tight situation without so much as breaking a sweat.

More sales does not mean that it'll increase someone more.

Obviously. I do think Luigi increased more than Pac-Man. I was just pointing out that SM64DS wasn't as big as some people seem to think.

We have NEVER had a direct read on him, have we? He was behind Link/Samus SFF in 2k3

Doesn't make a difference in his match against Squall.

behind Link/Yoshi and Yoshi/Luigi SFF in 2k4.

Doesn't make a difference in his match against Yoshi. Squall >= Yoshi > Tifa
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

Yoshi/Luigi SFF in 2k4

I don't think there was much SFF in Yoshi/Luigi.
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Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

Like I said before, I don't believe Squall 2k5 = Squall 2k3. I think the KHF has been wearing off on him, as it probably has for all the character. Though I expect him to get a solid boost and become a very real threat after KH2.

I don't know why people are so eager to hand Link the contest in 2k6, by the by. He'll have TP, no doubt, but even if it lives up to the hype it will have to live up to a potential KH2 factor, AC, numerous FF7 spinoffs, and perhaps even the announcement of a PS3 FF7 remake. I think 2k6 could shape up to be very interesting.
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Only the Snake is the true hero. Solid Snake to the Final Four!

Whether you think there was much SFF in Yoshi/Luigi 2k4, it doesn't really matter, as the SFF in Link/Yoshi was extreme enough on its own. I just noted it for the sake of posterity.
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Only the Snake is the true hero. Solid Snake to the Final Four!

Come on, Ceej! Put up the Mario/Zero pic! I wanna see the sprites!
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

I'm tingling at the prospect of Snake > Samus.

Snake ftw.
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Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

I doubt that Liquid is as weak as Sephiroth made him look, personally. Same with MGS against FFVII.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Man, these vote totals are atrocious. It's behind Lloyd/Wesker right now.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

I hope the sprites go back to how they were in 2k3. The whole home-field advantage thing is nice, but some of the pictures were horrible, and it's not fair to the other character as well. Besides, the 2k3 sprite pics looked GREAT with a profile pic in the background for each character.
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Well, if the Spring Contest is any indication, it'll be the same thing. We seem to be following the same pattern here. I don't really mind it. It has a lot of potential (doesn't always pan out, of course) to make for some great pictures.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

Personally, I'd take 2k2 any day--sprite backgrounds with standard character pics. But as usual, that's mainly because I think that would benefit Snake. <__<
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Only the Snake is the true hero. Solid Snake to the Final Four!

Meh, I like the sprites to be fully visible. That's the highlight of the picture.

And I'm not expecting Snake to get a sprite this year, personally. I think he'll get a MGS polygon vs. KH Sora (not CoM).
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Devil Division Final: (5)Vincent Valentine

MGS polygon Snake would rock Sora's world. He could very well be OVERRATED by that pic...
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Only the Snake is the true hero. Solid Snake to the Final Four!

Actually, I think he should do a new sprite concept. Have the character's first character model standing next to his current character model... Kinda like the Mario/Link 2k2 final, except with 2 pics for each. That would be pretty cool. Wouldn't really work for Master Chief though... How about you throw in a Red vs. Blue tandem for him? <_<
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."