Samus will not benefit from SFF. Either the match will go as expected (56-44 or the likes of it), or Mario'll rSFF Samus to make it close and/or win. Being Mr. Nintendo doesn't mean a surefire win over a non-Link Nintendo character, BUT he won't ever be SFFed, either.

Uh...why not?

He's from an unpopular series? Zero and Mega Man are two of the strongest characters we have seen in these contests.

Yeah, and guess what they have in common? They're both from Mega Man X.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the main character of an unpopular series is NOT going to be the heavy favorite to reach the Final 4 three years in a row...
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"You can't have gone over a kilometer up. 1500 meters, tops." -Samus Aran
"I'll express my love to you slowly, later." -Setzer Gabbiani

Uh...why not?

For the same reason people have been flaunting that upset all over the place. HE'S FRIGGIN MARIO.
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"You can't have gone over a kilometer up. 1500 meters, tops." -Samus Aran
"I'll express my love to you slowly, later." -Setzer Gabbiani

For the same reason people have been flaunting that upset all over the place. HE'S FRIGGIN MARIO.

So? His being Mario didn't help him against Crono last year.
---
Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

Crono beat Mario by 6000 votes when he lost to him both times before! IT MUST BE SFF!
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"You can't have gone over a kilometer up. 1500 meters, tops." -Samus Aran
"I'll express my love to you slowly, later." -Setzer Gabbiani

I'm diggin' all of the Zero love in this topic! Nice to see people actually give him some respect (except for HM, who can bite me). ^_^

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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

People don't know Laharl. They know Robotnik. It's the same damn thing as Pac-Man/Ocelot.

Wait...MGS2 sold better than any Sonic game ever, and Ocelot is still an unknown? WTF is wrong with you?

And how is Alucard so strong if cult characters are all weak? SotN sold like ****, and still managed to beat Tails.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the main character of an unpopular series is NOT going to be the heavy favorite to reach the Final 4 three years in a row...

Come on, saying MM reached the Final Four because of MM Classic is like saying Mario is stronger than Crono because of Super Mario Land.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

From: Slowflake | Posted: 9/4/2005 3:02:08 PM | Message Detail
Crono beat Mario by 6000 votes when he lost to him both times before! IT MUST BE SFF!

No. It's Crono simply being stronger, which I think, will propel Samus to victory.
---
Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

Except the incarnation of Megaman that's been in every match pic so far IS from MM classic, and no other sub-series.
---
"You can't have gone over a kilometer up. 1500 meters, tops." -Samus Aran
"I'll express my love to you slowly, later." -Setzer Gabbiani

From: Draco1214 | Posted: 9/4/2005 6:04:18 PM | #258
From: Slowflake | Posted: 9/4/2005 3:02:08 PM | Message Detail
Crono beat Mario by 6000 votes when he lost to him both times before! IT MUST BE SFF!

No. It's Crono simply being stronger, which I think, will propel Samus to victory.

You totally missed the point. We were discussing whether Samus can SFF Mario enough to reach 60%, which you know damn well is impossible.
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"You can't have gone over a kilometer up. 1500 meters, tops." -Samus Aran
"I'll express my love to you slowly, later." -Setzer Gabbiani

SOTN sold 400,000 and that was old data. I'm sure all the buying or used copies + emulation must have increased his exposure. Sure that is nowhere near the level of the elites but I wouldn't call sales like that crap.

For the same reason people have been flaunting that upset all over the place. HE'S FRIGGIN MARIO.

Yes, and? What about FRIGGIN' PAC-MAN?! There's a reason Pac-Man and Mario got the same seed it 2k2.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

There's a reason Pac-Man and Mario got the same seed it 2k2.

Because CJayC arbitrarily gave them to the most legendary characters?
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"You can't have gone over a kilometer up. 1500 meters, tops." -Samus Aran
"I'll express my love to you slowly, later." -Setzer Gabbiani

You totally missed the point. We were discussing whether Samus can SFF Mario enough to reach 60%, which you know damn well is impossible.

It's a possibility, albeit a small one, but it can very well happen.

I'm predicting 55-56% for Samus myself.
---
Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

Which is exactly what the X-Sts project.
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"You can't have gone over a kilometer up. 1500 meters, tops." -Samus Aran
"I'll express my love to you slowly, later." -Setzer Gabbiani

Wait...MGS2 sold better than any Sonic game ever, and Ocelot is still an unknown? WTF is wrong with you?

And how is Alucard so strong if cult characters are all weak? SotN sold like ****, and still managed to beat Tails.

Alucard isn't cult, he's niche. SotN is STILL on the top PS1 FAQs to this day. And comparing Disgaea's sales to SotN's is a travesty, to say nothing of Castlevania as a whole.

Not to mention that MGS2's sales have nothing to do with the strength of Ocelot. You don't necessarily have to even know who Ocelot is in that game, particularly if you're disinterested in the story (and believe me, I know plenty of casuals who skip through all the cutscenes and just play for the gameplay), or if you just plain don't finish the game...like with Kuja. Robotnik is impossible to miss in Sonic. Not to mention that the Sonic games have been around for a damn long time.
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Only the Snake is the true hero. Solid Snake to the Final Four!

Er , minor correction - 477,000 US sales for SOTN. Same thing though.

From: Slowflake | Posted: 9/4/2005 3:07:55 PM | Message Detail
Which is exactly what the X-Sts project.

Heh, I didn't know that...
---
Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

Except the incarnation of Megaman that's been in every match pic so far IS from MM classic, and no other sub-series.

Yes, and? Link beat Samus with over 60% with a Wind Waker pic. Like CJayC says, MM represents the MM from every MM series, and Zero's strength shows that most of MM's comes from MMX.

Because CJayC arbitrarily gave them to the most legendary characters?

Yes, the same way you're arbitrarily giving Mario the benefit of the doubt against Samus.

Not to mention that MGS2's sales have nothing to do with the strength of Ocelot. You don't necessarily have to even know who Ocelot is in that game, particularly if you're disinterested in the story (and believe me, I know plenty of casuals who skip through all the cutscenes and just play for the gameplay), or if you just plain don't finish the game...like with Kuja. Robotnik is impossible to miss in Sonic. Not to mention that the Sonic games have been around for a damn long time.

So then, why is Ocelot so much stronger than Robotnik?

Alucard isn't cult, he's niche. SotN is STILL on the top PS1 FAQs to this day. And comparing Disgaea's sales to SotN's is a travesty, to say nothing of Castlevania as a whole.

I've seen Valkyrie Profile pop up in the top 10 for PS1, and that game only sold 62,000 copies. I'd love to see Lenneth beat Pac-Man, and Disgaea surely sold better than VP.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

So then, why is Ocelot so much stronger than Robotnik?

There's no guarantee he would win in a head-to-head match, despite what the stats say. But honestly, the comparisons are not even close to what you're talking about. The difference between Ocelot, Robotnik, and Wily are all miniscule to the differences between them and Laharl. They would all kill Laharl because no one here knows him.

I've seen Valkyrie Profile pop up in the top 10 for PS1, and that game only sold 62,000 copies. I'd love to see Lenneth beat Pac-Man, and Disgaea surely sold better than VP.

Yeah, and Adventure 'popped up' in the top ten FAQs for its system too. Didn't stay there long, of course. SotN has been on the top ten for a long, LONG time, and doesn't look like it's going down any time soon. Quite different with Disgaea, wouldn't you say?
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Only the Snake is the true hero. Solid Snake to the Final Four!

Because CJayC arbitrarily gave them to the most legendary characters?

Yes, the same way you're arbitrarily giving Mario the benefit of the doubt against Samus.

I have Samus winning, for the record. But Samus will not SFF Mario, PERIOD.
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"You can't have gone over a kilometer up. 1500 meters, tops." -Samus Aran
"I'll express my love to you slowly, later." -Setzer Gabbiani

VP's been off and on a few times. And...look at the game ahead of SotN on the PS1 FAQs. It doesn't take much to get on THAT top ten list.

There's no guarantee he would win in a head-to-head match, despite what the stats say. But honestly, the comparisons are not even close to what you're talking about. The difference between Ocelot, Robotnik, and Wily are all miniscule to the differences between them and Laharl. They would all kill Laharl because no one here knows him.

Ocelot: 23.66
Wily: 21.53
Robotnik: 16.8
Laharl: 15.28

Laharl's a lot closer to Robotnik than Wily is to Ocelot...

I have Samus winning, for the record. But Samus will not SFF Mario, PERIOD.

I'd appreciate it if you'd use some logical reasoning here. If Mario can SFF Bowser, Samus can SFF Mario.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

VP's been off and on a few times. And...look at the game ahead of SotN on the PS1 FAQs. It doesn't take much to get on THAT top ten list.

But it takes something to stay on it for as long as SotN has.

And I was talking about the differences between Ocelot, Wily, and Robotnik being miniscule compared to them and Laharl on a plane of common sense, not statistics. Fact is, Robotnik/Laharl would be Ocelot/Pac-Man, on a smaller scale. Everyone knows Pac-Man--everyone, despite MGS2's sales. That means that those who know Pac-Man and don't know Ocelot will default to Pac-Man. Even though Ocelot has legitimate strength, that is his undoing. He's quite possibly more indirectly strong than Pac-Man.

Now, we take Robotnik/Laharl. While not as many people know Robotnik as Pac-Man, even less know Laharl as compared to Ocelot. It's the same thing. People will default to Robotnik, and he would win.
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Only the Snake is the true hero. Solid Snake to the Final Four!

jesus, Yoshi is just killing Pac-Man. why hello there, 73%.

I ranked the characters at the end of last round (and took crap for Kirby > Alucard), so here we go again:

1. Samus
2. Mario
3. Crono
4. Sonic
5. Mega Man
6. Snake
7. Tifa
8. Ganon
9. Bowser
10. Zero
11. Yoshi
12. Squall
13. Sora
14. Vincent
15. Kirby
16. Master Chief

11-15 is really close.
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http://picturesofwalls.com

I wish I had the drive and written eloquence to create a detailed "Why Mario will beat Samus" topic. Ah well, maybe I'll do it if I get bored...
---
Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

be sure to title it "Samus has no shot at Mario.", in tribute to red's deleted topic.
---
http://picturesofwalls.com

I ranked the characters at the end of last round (and took crap for Kirby > Alucard), so here we go again:

Hmmm, I'll try this too.

1. Samus
2. Mario
3. Crono
4. Snake
5. Sonic
6. Mega Man
7. Ganon
8. Bowser
9. Zero
10. Squall
11. Yoshi
12. Sora
13. Kirby
14. Vincent
15. Tifa
16. Master Chief
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

I'll rank the characters too:

1) Crono
2) Samus
3) Mario
4) Solid Snake
5) Mega Man
6) Sonic
7) Zero
8) Ganondorf
9) Bowser
10) Vincent Valentine
11) Tifa Lockheart
12) Squall Leonhart
13) Yoshi
14) Sora
15) Kirby
16) Master Chief

10-15 are very close.
---
Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

Blah blah rank blah blah:

1) Mario
2) Samus
3) Crono
4) Sonic
5) Mega Man
6) Solid Snake
7) Zero
8) Ganondorf
9) Bowser
10) Yoshi
11) Tifa Lockheart
12) Squall Leonhart
13) Vincent Valentine
14) Sora
15) Kirby
16) Master Chief
---
Only the Snake is the true hero. Solid Snake to the Final Four!

Who wins in Kefka vs. Frog?
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

Tifa horribly disappoints against Luigi and she's #7? I'd say what she did against Luigi was more disappointing than what Vincent did to Dante, or at least comparable if you put my bias aside. I'd strongly consider putting Kirby over Tifa at this point. Here's how I'd rank them, by the way, based on their round 2s/1s. (mostly 2s {and previous contests... I wouldn't have Mega Man over Bowser actually if it was just on the round 2s})

1. Mario (can't infer anything on him anyway, may as well be biased)
2. Sonic
3. Samus
4. Crono
5. Snake
6. Mega Man
7. Bowser
8. Zero
9. Ganon
10. Vincent
11. Kirby
12. Sora
13. Squall (of course he'd SFF Sora, but I think Knux and Alucard would have a damn close match)
14. Yoshi (can't really get anything out of either match, anyway)
15. Tifa (flop of round 2, right here)
16. Master Chief (no Halo 2 boost? How sad... let's hope he surprises vs Crono)
---
Master Chief's path to the championship: Round 3: (2) Crono.
Halo 2 + 7 vote loss vs Frog = 7 vote win vs Crono

2. Sonic
3. Samus

...the hell?
---
Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

How can Sonic beat Samus? Diablo would have to be way stronger than Frog for that to work. And Kefka has to be stronger than Frog for Crono > Samus to work.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

Sonic cannot beat Samus, he is 0 for 2 against her.
---
Today's subliminal thought is:

And Kefka has to be stronger than Frog for Crono > Samus to work.

I'd take Vercetti over Frog.
---
Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

Oops, I thought Samus only pulled 65%... bad memory. Swap Sonic and Samus. But I still say 68% on Diablo is more impressive than 70% on Vercetti.
---
Master Chief's path to the championship: Round 3: (2) Crono.
Halo 2 + 7 vote loss vs Frog = 7 vote win vs Crono

I'd take Vercetti over Frog.

But...Frog beat Master Chief.

But I still say 68% on Diablo is more impressive than 70% on Vercetti.

They're pretty similar in impressiveness, Diablo didn't beat Kefka by thatmuch more than Vercetti.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

But...Frog beat Master Chief.

But...Frog struggled with Liquid Snake.
---
Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

And I would also take Master Chief over Frog this year.
---
Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

The BOP vs. overall picks sheet is now complete:

http://www.freewebs.com/slowflake/bop.xls

and go to the last sheet.

Look out for the Frog matches... gold stuff. Lloyd is also funny as hell.
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"You can't have gone over a kilometer up. 1500 meters, tops." -Samus Aran
"I'll express my love to you slowly, later." -Setzer Gabbiani

But...Frog struggled with Liquid Snake.

If you want to use Liquid Snake, I'll pull out Solid Snake. Seph SFF'd Liquid just like FFVII SFF'd MGS. Not very much, mind you, but a little.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

If you want to use Liquid Snake, I'll pull out Solid Snake. Seph SFF'd Liquid just like FFVII SFF'd MGS. Not very much, mind you, but a little.

It still makes Liquid look like complete **** in the stats.
---
Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

I give Tifa #7 because I believe Luigi significantly increased. while Sonic may beat her good, I get the feeling Sonic increased and could even beat Crono. I don't think I could rank her under Yoshi or Squall.

I'd strongly consider putting Kirby over Tifa at this point.

I would very confidently put Tifa over Kirby. That match wouldn't be a hard choice at all for me.

---
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5980/12mw.gif
Both knowledgeable and experienced, he can get past any tight situation without so much as breaking a sweat.

It still makes Liquid look like complete **** in the stats.

Just like this match makes Ocelot look like complete **** in the stats. I don't get how you could use that argument on a day like today.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

and I love how people went from Tifa taking the main bracket to being one of the worst characters in round 3 in the span of 24 hours. when all of Nintendo increases, it's easy to look like crap.

on second thought, maybe Ganon and Bowser should be above Tifa. not Yoshi or Kirby, though.
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http://picturesofwalls.com

Just like this match makes Ocelot look like complete **** in the stats. I don't get how you could use that argument on a day like today.

The problem is that there is significant SFF in this match. There was barely any SFF in Sephiroth/Liquid. Why would there be in that match?

Unless, of course, you think Lavos is that strong.
---
Return of SF1: YOU DON'T HAVE A CASE!
makeyourchance: Yes I do! It's Samsonite.

and I love how people went from Tifa taking the main bracket to being one of the worst characters in round 3 in the span of 24 hours. when all of Nintendo increases, it's easy to look like crap.

Luigi would have to take a pretty hefty increase for Tifa to still be looking good...and some people (like me) never thought Tifa was stronger than Aeris, even before round 2.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

For the record, I was always one of the people who was doubting Vincent and Tifa's fodder stompings. Hell, I discredited them and based them on what I thought they'd do against Luigi and Dante.

Still, Tifa doing 7+% worse than Squall on Luigi doesn't make her look so great... Nintendo increase or not (which Kirby would also get, so it's somewhat self-defeating). Seeing as Squall only got 45% on Kirby in the first place.
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Master Chief's path to the championship: Round 3: (2) Crono.
Halo 2 + 7 vote loss vs Frog = 7 vote win vs Crono

I have no problem thinking Luigi 2k5 is considerably stronger than Luigi 2k3. when everyone else goes up, it's pretty easy to guess that Luigi would too.

I've always thought Tifa would lose to Sonic, both after her round 1 killing and after her round 2 "flop". unexpected results doesn't change the fact that she'd blast Squall or Kirby.
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http://picturesofwalls.com