Because it throws into question the size or even existance of SFF between Square chars?
NO WAY!

No, because you use it as a lame excuse to deny the existence of SFF when it seems pretty obvious that it exists otherwise. That's ONE instance.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

Can you show me another example of 2 different characters that take a dive in stats the same year they face a common opponent that DOESN'T involve SFF?
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"No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do." - Tom Cruise

Samus/Sam and Samus/Lara...

Not really accurate but it is an example.
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Leon's Quest For Ultimate Glory:
1. Gordon Freeman; 2. Mega Man

Except with Magus's overratedness, Sam doesn't necessarily drop that year.
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"No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do." - Tom Cruise

Exactly, but Magus wasnt overrated due to SFF. Thus ROF (Random Overperformance Factor) struck.
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Leon's Quest For Ultimate Glory:
1. Gordon Freeman; 2. Mega Man

No, assuming consistency when it lines up with the stats is not a cop out. It's good logic.

Claiming inconsistency in an effort to deny what the stats project is a cop out.

It lines up because you want it to line up, it won't otherwise.

Oh noes!
Snake 2k4 doesn't line up with his previous appearances!

So you adjust MM, and guess what you get today...

As a general rule, chars vary in strength from year to year, there's little reason to think they're consistent.

If Bomberman was just the one person, it wouldn't raise a flag. But we're talking 2 different people here.

So, what about Sonic?
He decreased in 2k3, but regained some of his strength in 2k4.

Knux took a dive ONLY in 2k4.

There are many examples in the stats that chars do NOT remain constant from year to year.

Assuming consistency to justify SFF is NOT the way to go about it.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

I guess. You're right. The fact that the only other example involves Magus, one of the biggest flukes of the contest history, really says something.

We don't assume we have another Magus on our hands until we have proof.
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"No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do." - Tom Cruise

Here is my question. How is Tidus so wtrong in 2002? WDF cant account for it all.
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Leon's Quest For Ultimate Glory:
1. Gordon Freeman; 2. Mega Man

No, because you use it as a lame excuse to deny the existence of SFF when it seems pretty obvious that it exists otherwise. That's ONE instance.

Yeah, sure, when you don't even have ANY legitimate reading on Auron himself...

SFF can be as small as 0.01% (non-existant, like Crono vs. Magus) or as large as 10% (like Link vs. Ganon), so which one will you choose?

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Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

Yeah, sure, when you don't even have ANY legitimate reading on Auron himself...

Yeah, we can just assume he's inconsistent as can be, or we can use his previous matches to formulate an educated guess.

Then again, characters apparently jump up or down 5% on an annual basis for absolutely no reason at all. I guess we can't do that, even if everything matches up. That's just horrible logic.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

I guess. You're right. The fact that the only other example involves Magus, one of the biggest flukes of the contest history, really says something.

We don't assume we have another Magus on our hands until we have proof.

We already did, see Frog and Vivi.

And Tidus too, from 2k2 to 2k3.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

And Tidus and Magus were 4-Pack buddies!
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Knuckles the Echidna's road to the Sc2k5 Title!
Round 2: (2)Squall Leonhart

We already did, see Frog and Vivi.

And Tidus too, from 2k2 to 2k3.

How is that related to Auron's matches with Scorpion and Tails? Proof of it happening in OTHER characters isn't proof of it in the characters we're talking about. Are you feeling okay?
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"No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do." - Tom Cruise

Yeah, we can just assume he's inconsistent as can be, or we can use his previous matches to formulate an educated guess.

Then again, characters apparently jump up or down 5% on an annual basis for absolutely no reason at all. I guess we can't do that, even if everything matches up. That's just horrible logic.

Not as bad as assuming consistency when MOST chars in the contest are NOT consistent.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

They're consistent within a certain range, which the logical conclusions take into account. ARGH. Okay, last post, I swear. This is impossible.
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"No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do." - Tom Cruise

Not as bad as assuming consistency when MOST chars in the contest are NOT consistent.

MOST characters in this contest are not perfectly constant, no, but they don't have random fluctuations of 3-5% like you seem to want to argue. Denying solid evidence on your own personal (and pretty much baseless) speculation that characters move up and down for no reason at all is ridiculous.

Then again, you seem to be intent on proving yourself right no matter what. You seem to have too much pride to admit a mistake (or even the possibility of one), so I'll stop arguing. It's not worth it.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

How is that related to Auron's matches with Scorpion and Tails? Proof of it happening in OTHER characters isn't proof of it in the characters we're talking about. Are you feeling okay?

If it can happen to them, then why can't it happen to Auron?

Tidus and Auron are both FF X chars.

And check out Sonic's drop between 2k2 and 2k3 while you're at it.

Why can't Tails experience something similar?

Chars are NOT consistent is general, deal with it.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

The only problem is that you consistently use contradictory evidence to make your point. Sonic's so-called "drop" was due to the WDF.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

MOST characters in this contest are not perfectly constant, no, but they don't have random fluctuations of 3-5% like you seem to want to argue. Denying solid evidence on your own personal (and pretty much baseless) speculation that characters move up and down for no reason at all is ridiculous.

Then again, you seem to be intent on proving yourself right no matter what. You seem to have too much pride to admit a mistake (or even the possibility of one), so I'll stop arguing. It's not worth it.

I'll admit a mistake when a solid evidence is presented, you presented nothing but ridiculous SFF speculations.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

The only problem is that you consistently use contradictory evidence to make your point. Sonic's so-called "drop" was due to the WDF.

Sure, throw in a factor everytime the X-stats doesn't line up...

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Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

Is this vote total unusually high? Like, the fastest we've had so far? Seems like it.
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Mario is Winnar
Next victim: Master Zero

Yeah, because it makes sense for EVERYONE in the SAME division to take HUGE drops. Yeah. There was no reason for that.

I'll admit a mistake when a solid evidence is presented, you presented nothing but ridiculous SFF speculations.

Ridiculous speculations? If you consider multiple examples used as proof to back them up to be ridiculous speculation, you don't understand the meaning of that phrase.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

Tidus likes drawing in large vote totals. He's cool like that.

Nah, this match is on pace for about 100,000 votes exactly.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

Yeah, because it makes sense for EVERYONE in the SAME division to take HUGE drops. Yeah. There was no reason for that.

Except Seph himself?
The supposed culprit of said WDF?

Btw, not everyone, Crash and CATS didn't.

Seph's increase between 2k2 and 2k3 is unholy if you adjust him for WDF in 2k2.

Ridiculous speculations? If you consider multiple examples used as proof to back them up to be ridiculous speculation, you don't understand the meaning of that phrase.

You're assuming consistency when we know chars do not have to remain consistent from year to year.
What's not ridiculous about that?

And Tails 2k3 and Tails 2k4 only differ by 3%, it's a big but not ridiculous number.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

And Tidus and Magus were 4-Pack buddies!

Not in 2k2.

If you adjust Tidus for Magus overperformance in 2k3, then Tidus dropped significantly between 2k2 and 2k3.

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Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

Well, the match WAS the lowest vote total match in the entire contest, was it not? It's not as if it's some unexplainable phenomemon. Signs and obvious reasons are there.

And to earlier....

If it can happen to them, then why can't it happen to Auron?

In order for the argument to work, it wouldn't happen "to Auron" it would have to have happened to Scorpion and Tails. Something that would cause them to be overrated in the years where they DIDN'T face Auron. Both of them.
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"No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do." - Tom Cruise

Well, not absolute lowest, but taking into account that it wasn't a round 1 match, it was relatively the lowest.
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"No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do." - Tom Cruise

And that whole being stopped for a few hours thing.
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"No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do." - Tom Cruise

Something that would cause them to be overrated in the years where they DIDN'T face Auron. Both of them.

Come on. Isn't it obvious that, no matter how nicely it all lines up, characters take large jumps up or down for no reason at all? It's just TOO convenient that multiple matches signal SFF for Auron, ya know. It can't possibly be the case. It's just a coincidence, so we'll just say Tails and Scorpion moved in such a manner as to make it SEEM like Auron's really way up there when he's actually not. Yeah, it seems TOO convenient, but it's really not because, ya know, characters never remain relatively constant. Yeah, the stats never predict matches particularly well, not even this one, where Kirby beats unadjusted Tidus with 57.13% here. That's just a coincidence because it's just too obvious that neither of them could POSSIBLY have remained constant because, ya know, they just don't do that.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

And you can say that Auron is the one that's affected and that he just overperformed against Tails and Scorprion with 65-35 victories. But that truly IS unprecedented. All the wild flucations we have like Magus have resulted from losers overperforming against stronger opponents but still losing by quite a bit. And even in those cases, it's mostly just 1 performance that every irregularity can be traced to.

There's no case of someone "overperforming consistently" like Auron's case. He's literally done well in every match BUT with his matches against Sephiroth and Cloud. Those matches are the exception to his record, AND they come from the same company. I don't believe it's a coincidence, but apparently you do, and I can't change that so I give up.
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"No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do." - Tom Cruise

In order for the argument to work, it wouldn't happen "to Auron" it would have to have happened to Scorpion and Tails. Something that would cause them to be overrated in the years where they DIDN'T face Auron. Both of them.

As I said, Sonic decreased in 2k3, and increased back up in 2k4, the same thing can happen to Tails.

Crash seemed to remain constant between 2k2 and 2k3, but he dropped in 2k4.

There are many other possibilities to consider other than SFF.

Come on. Isn't it obvious that, no matter how nicely it all lines up, characters take large jumps up or down for no reason at all? It's just TOO convenient that multiple matches signal SFF for Auron, ya know. It can't possibly be the case. It's just a coincidence, so we'll just say Tails and Scorpion moved in such a manner as to make it SEEM like Auron's really way up there when he's actually not. Yeah, it seems TOO convenient, but it's really not because, ya know, characters never remain relatively constant. Yeah, the stats never predict matches particularly well, not even this one, where Kirby beats unadjusted Tidus with 57.13% here. That's just a coincidence because it's just too obvious that neither of them could POSSIBLY have remained constant because, ya know, they just don't do that.

The stats surely predicted Luigi nearly doubling KOS-MOS, didn't it?
It predicted Ocelot losing to pac, didn't it?
It predicted Magus losing to Knux, didn't it?

There's a reason neither Raiden nor Protoman were adjusted, because there were no valid numbers on them.

Adjusting Auron for SFF seemed right, but so did adjusting Magus for SFF, and you know where did that lead us.

The X-stats don't always line-up between years, trying to line them up using SFF as an excuse is like setting a trap for yourself.

SFF is a possibility, but looking at Seph's other supposedly SFF ridden match, it's a very small possibility.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

It predicted Magus losing to Knux, didn't it?

If you know where to look for it, yes.
---
It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

As I said, Sonic decreased in 2k3, and increased back up in 2k4, the same thing can happen to Tails.

Crash seemed to remain constant between 2k2 and 2k3, but he dropped in 2k4.

There are many other possibilities to consider other than SFF.


You're not approaching the matter correctly. You don't address how one person can drop from year to year. That solves nothing. You have to address the obvious connection with them dropping in the same year they face Auron. It's too improbable to be coincidence.
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"No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do." - Tom Cruise

Anyway... it's my BEDTIME. Don't ask.
---
"No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do." - Tom Cruise

And you can say that Auron is the one that's affected and that he just overperformed against Tails and Scorprion with 65-35 victories. But that truly IS unprecedented. All the wild flucations we have like Magus have resulted from losers overperforming against stronger opponents but still losing by quite a bit. And even in those cases, it's mostly just 1 performance that every irregularity can be traced to.

Read my other post for that, I didn't claim Auron overperforming against Tails or Scorp.

However, he might be stronger in 2k3 than he did in 2k4, just like Tidus was stronger in 2k2 than he was in 2k3, making Scorp the only anomaly.

There's no case of someone "overperforming consistently" like Auron's case. He's literally done well in every match BUT with his matches against Sephiroth and Cloud. Those matches are the exception to his record, AND they come from the same company. I don't believe it's a coincidence, but apparently you do, and I can't change that so I give up.

Just because they're from the same company doesn't mean SFF is guaranteed to exist.

Adjusting for that is futile unless you have at least ONE legitimate reading on Auron himself.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

If you know where to look for it, yes.

Now we know that, but we didn't last year.

There might be a reason why the X-stats doesn't line-up, you shouldn't force it to line-up using SFF as an excuse.

You're not approaching the matter correctly. You don't address how one person can drop from year to year. That solves nothing. You have to address the obvious connection with them dropping in the same year they face Auron. It's too improbable to be coincidence.

If Tails behaved like Sonic did, than the only exception is Auron's match with Scorp, and that would be 1 out of 4 matches that doesn't line-up.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

Where does this performance put Tidus in the 2004 stats?
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Yeah... Hurricane Katrina knocked my power out (and a bunch of limbs off my trees). Kirby's beating Tidus I see! *laughs at Tidus*

Yeah, hopefully I'll have power tomorrow...
---
MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Where does this performance put Tidus in the 2004 stats?

We don't know, really.

Kirby's number in 2k4 is questionable, since Squall faced Cloud.

And assuming a constant Kirby from 2k3 is a huge stretch.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

Am I the only one who thinks WDF had to do with Seph getting anti-votes?

He was hated a lot more than Cloud back in 2002.
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"I don't like it when people I don't like get what they want."--Janelle

This is something I have been thinking about since Tifa vs. Vyse. People have been praising her to go and crush Sonic and MM and have a duel with Crono, because she only did 4% worse than Cloud on the same opponent. People have been citing that a Vyse drop is impropable, since he is cult, and cult characters don't flucuate.

But what if Tifa doing only 4% worse on Vyse than Cloud occured because those who voted for Cloud the first time mainly voted for Tifa as well. Think about it. Vyse has his cult fanbase, and those people would have voted him over Tifa and Cloud. And how many people do you think consider Cloud > Vyse > Tifa? Not many is what I'm thinking. I think her performance on Vyse could have seen coming, just on the relation between the other characters.

But maybe if we go into a more popular and recognizable character, like Sonic or MM, it isn't that hard to believe that a Cloud voter would vote him over Sonic or MM, but maybe they'll consider Sonic/MM better than Tifa...

Or is this just crazy talk?

---
I don't have an ego.
I'm way too cool for that.

Note: If you measure from 20XX-adjusted Tidus, and Kirby wins with 58%, Kirby is at 32.37 on 2K3 Link, meaning he could potentially beat Bowser AND Ryu. Doubtful, though...heh, I would love that to be the case. I suppose if Bowser/Ryu ends up 50/50, Kirby could have a shot. Maybe...just being hopeful.

On the otherhand, if you measure from unadjusted Tidus, Kirby is only at 29.13% on BL. Almost at his 2K4 levels. :[

*hopes Tidus didn't fall in popularity again*

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

Where does this performance put Tidus in the 2004 stats?

Based on 2004 Kirby, just a little below his unadjusted number, or thereabouts. I'd say that Kirby is the leading candidate for star of the round, at least thus far.

A question for tomorrow's match: What does Bowser need against Ryu to look like he can beat Snake? I personally think he needs at least 53% in that match. Anything less than that and I don't see him winning.

In my personal opinion, though I have Ryu winning, this match is, for all intents and purposes, Bowser's to lose. The way I see it, if anybody is likely to win easily, it's Bowser. Ryu will have to fight it out to win. We know he can't break 55% here.

That's not to say Ryu can't or won't win, but if anybody wins easily tomorrow, it's Bowser.
---
It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

And Kirby's performance (assuming the relationship is proportional, of course. This is mostly just for fun) puts Squall at 35.97% on Link, almost equal with Sonic the Hedgehog. Based on that, he would be expected to get 42.45% on 2004 Samus, not that far from what he actually got in 2003.

Heh, just depends on if Samus was at that level in 2003 or not.
---
It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

How can anybody say Bowser will beat Ryu easily, anyway? Revolver Ocelot's already shown that Bowser was overrated in Sp2K5.

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

How can anybody say Bowser will beat Ryu easily, anyway? Revolver Ocelot's already shown that Bowser was overrated in Sp2K5.

Possibly. I'm not saying he isn't. I'm just saying that, if ANYBODY wins this match easily, it's more likely to be Bowser.

And this match will be like Sora/Alucard in that, if Ryu struggles to build a lead in the early hours, we can pretty much rest assured he's dead come morning.
---
It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

I certainly hope Bowser won't upset Snake.

As Bowser will then proceed to get SFF'ed by either Samus or Mario, messing up the X-stats even further.

After his performance against Rikku, I might have a heart attack if Ryu upset Bowser.

Now I highly doubt Bowser will win easily, but at the very least he'll win Frog/Riku style.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

I wouldn't expect Samus to SFF Bowser much, like I don't think she'll SFF Ganondorf much.
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It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

And Kirby's performance (assuming the relationship is proportional, of course. This is mostly just for fun) puts Squall at 35.97% on Link, almost equal with Sonic the Hedgehog. Based on that, he would be expected to get 42.45% on 2004 Samus, not that far from what he actually got in 2003.

Heh, just depends on if Samus was at that level in 2003 or not.

Squall through Kirby through adjusted Tidus 2k4?

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.