I think the Noble Nine really transcends anything stat related. Even if, say, Sora, was indirectly stronger than Solid Snake and Sonic, I don't think he would beat them. The Noble Nine didn't become the Noble Nine for no reason. They have huge, constant fanbases. I really don't think they will be beaten by anyone outside of their group, becasue that is just what they are; above the others in the field.
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"All pretty girls are a trap, a pretty trap, and men expect them to be."
MasterMage119

Listen, perv, we don't like exposing little boys here. Brign us some full grown women if you're going to be going around exposing people. ;p

Anywho, yeah... Sora > Snake still doesn't seem realistic, you really have to make a stretch of the imagination. Then again, even for as much as I love Alucard I considered adjusting him by Ganon 2k3 to be a stretch of the imagination as well. Frankly, Sora might be cracking 30% here, but it's not enough in my book to beat a post-MGS3 Snake.

And yes, I consider having Bowser over Snake to be one of the biggest mistakes in my bracket, though a much smaller one than Magus over Vincent, obv.
---
Now Link, fill up your hearts
So you can shoot your sword with power

Dream Division Round 2 - Match 39 – (1)Kirby vs. (4)Tidus

Kirby - Cute AND badass…hard combo to pull off.
Round 1 – vs. Cecil (Kirby: 75.21% - Cecil: 24.79%)

Not many of us expected Kirby to triple Cecil.

Tidus - What? We all need someone we love to hate.
Round 1 – vs. King of all Cosmos (Tidus: 72.54% - King: 27.46%)

Not many of us also expected King to not get tripled by Tidus.

Wait…another good match? That’s 4 in a row! This Contest rocks! Er…I’ll stop praising and start analyzing now.

21 Sora 28.93%
22 Kirby 28.54%
23 Dante 27.33%
24 Tidus 27.19%
25 Vivi 27.05%

2004 Adjusted stats. Kirby ranked just ahead of Tidus, however, there is some controversy on both ends.

Kirby – Faced Squall, lost with 44.99%, Squall then got SFFed by Cloud.

Tidus – Beat Shadow in a very close match, like the stats predicted, but bombed against Mega, who then bombed to Link. 20XXDF.

So…yeah. I’m thinking Tidus is lower than he is supposed to be. Kirby is bound to have benefitted from K:CC and being a 1 seed, and those good ol’ Tidus anti-votes, but Kirby is looking like Shadow here. Looks really good to win the match, but has little chance to do so.

“But Moltar,” you scream, “Kirby tripled the FF4 hero, Cecil, while Tidus failed to triple the King of all Cosmos.” Of course, this could just mean that Cecil is…very weak as is old-school FF games, while more people liked King and played Katamari Damacy than we thought. I’m hoping Kirby can pull off that upset, or at least keep it close… In a perfect world, Kirby WOULD win this match.

But this isn’t a perfect world. In a perfect world, there wouldn’t be war. In a perfect world, everyone would have food and money. In a perfect world, video games and politicians would live in peace and harmony. Since none of those are going to happen, this world isn’t going to be perfect, and Tidus will beat Kirby. Man, does the world suck.

Moltar’s Bracket Says: Kirby will win.

Moltar’s Prediction is: Kirby: 49% - Tidus: 51%



Ulti’s Analysis

(Special note from Ulti: I'm either getting married or on my honeymoon as you're reading this, so know that all of my second round writeups will suck. I'm doing the same short writeups that I did for the last round, because I don't have time to be extensive.)

(Special note from Moltar: I’m not getting married or on my honeymoon, but my write-ups still suck.)

Screw it, third time's a charm. I highly doubt that the King of All Cosmos is stronger than Cecil, unrecognizable Amano Cecil or not.

Prediction: Kirby with 54.67%



Outback’s Analysis

Kirby blew out Cecil. Tidus blew out the King. Two unknowns, whose strength we really can get no bearing on. This match basically is the definition of "toss-up." It could go 55-45 either way or go down to the wire.

Tidus with 50.01%



Inviso’s Analysis

In round one, Nintendo was an unstoppable force. They won every single match their characters were in, except Geno, who is technically Square anyway, thus making this part of the sentence completely pointless. Kirby is the one seed in his division, very undeservedly in my opinion, as Crono has not gotten a 1 seed yet; neither have other character stronger than Kirby. Kirby had a lackluster tripling of Cecil, who really should not be that strong, having only a pre-FFVII Final Fantasy to support him. Tidus though…did WORSE than Kirby on a NON-Final Fantasy character. The King may be from a new popular game, but he’s still not THAT popular. I think that Nintendo may still be strong enough to beat Meg Ryan.

My Bracket: Tidus
My Vote: Kirby
My Prediction: Kirby with 52.19%
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SC2K5: Samus is going all the way!
Alucard vs. Sora - Bracket: Sora - Vote: Sora (38/42)

Soul’s Analysis

How they got here

Kirby defeated Cecil 75.21% - 24.79%
Tidus defeated KoaC 72.54% - 27.46%

Match 4 of this gauntlet features the hero from FFX and one of the board's favorite character. Tidus Vs. Kirby. Both relatively close in the stats, with Kirby being ahead by a percent. Like Alucard/Sora, this match could go either way. Here we go.

The 2002 stats are unreliable as of now, so lets go to 2003. In 2003, Kirby defeated Raziel before losing to Alucard in a 52-47 match. Tidus was part of that legendary four-pack with Ganondorf, Sam Fisher and Magus. He faced Ganondorf in round 1 and lost by 1500 votes. Again, pretty impressive after seeing how strong Ganondorf actually was.

In 2004, Tidus defeated Shadow the Hedgehog with about 1500 votes. A little payback from 2003, I'm guessing. He then went head first into a brick wall by the name of Mega Man. Tidus barely managed to get 35% on Samus. Kirby, on the other hand, defeated Kain with 64% of the vote. He/She/It then went on surprise everyone with his 45% loss to Squall Leonhart. Now the question is, is 35% on Samus better then 45% on Squall?

Of course, you can cheat and look at the X-Stats of that year and see Kirby ahead of Tidus. But we all know that 2004 is a bad year for those stats, since it seems that everything was wrong. All that it comes down to is this year, and this year only. In this year, we've seen Kirby get 75% on the main character from FF4. Also this year, we've seen Tidus defeat the King of all Cosmos by 72.5%. Basically, it all depends on who you think is stronger, Cecil or KoaC?

Again, since it is a FF-run site, people would say Cecil. But let's not forget how strong pre-FF7 characters are. Look at Kefka and Terra, who are in the best FF game before FF7 came out. They are very weak. Since FF4 is hardly talked about, I doubt Cecil is very strong. Also, Katamari Damacy is a cult game that was basically turned into a mainstream game, somewhat. I mean, it won game awards and was considered to be one of the best games of last year. KoaC had to have been at least somewhat strong, right?

Well, another interesting stat to look at is Alucard. He defeated Kirby with 52% of the vote. In 2004, he lost to Ganondorf 57-43%. Remember folks, this is the same Ganondorf (somewhat) that defeated Tidus with only 1500 votes. Of course, Ganondorf received the major boost that everyone from his franchised received in 2003, but he was never accounted for it in 2004 because of his SFF match with Link.

So really, once you think about it, it looks like Tidus has a bit of an edge right now. But, you have to realize that Nintendo has been completely dominant in this contest (with only losing 2 characters overall). It seems as if SSBM characters all got a boost for some unknown reason. Therefore, I think Kirby will just slightly win. It could go either way though.

My prediction: Kirby wins with 50.31% of the vote. *Insert something here*



Tnote’s Analysis

Ooh hell, why not. I have been belittling Tidus for the past week, about how he is overrated, about how he has benefited from anti-villain votes, the whole nine yards. On the one hand, I cannot see Kirby beating Shadow. On the other hand, Tidus’ four-pack has been exposed with Knuckles’ disposal of Magus. (Quick tangent: Tidus>Shadow, Shadow>Knuckles (not proven), Magus>Tidus, Knuckles>Magus… our very first non-transitive set! I love this site) I have been saying this match is a no-doubter for Tidus since day one, and was even louder when Kirby tripled Cecil and some people got delusions of Kirby winning. Well, after seeing Magus get exposed, I’m sold. Tidus is overrated, will not gain extra votes by drawing a villain, and will lose to Kirby.

Pick: Kirby with 50.83%

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SC2K5: Samus is going all the way!
Alucard vs. Sora - Bracket: Sora - Vote: Sora (38/42)

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Vlado’s Analysis

This match certainly has the potential to be interesting. Kirby beat Cecil really badly in the first round, but we know how strong old school Final Fantasy games are here... Not to mention Cecil got a pic that looked nothing like him, further increasing his agony. Tidus got a pretty good win over the King of All Cosmos, getting over 72% of the votes. Katamari Damacy may not be the most popular game out there, but it does have a strong following (further proven by the King's good seed) and Tidus always gets some anti-votes, too. So, I claim that his win over the King was quite impressive.

In last year's adjusted stats, Tidus was a bit lower than Kirby, but, let's take a serious look at things. Kirby is a Nintendo character, but he is far from the most popular ones from his company. I'm sure Zelda would kick his ass, if the two ever met in a match. Tidus, while not Auron, is still quite strong and I don't think he'll let an upset happen here (yeah, in this match, the 1st seed winning would be an upset). Sora's win today only comes to prove that Square has not yet lost its touch in the contest, even if most of their results have been quite disappointing so far.

Predicted percentage: Tidus with 53.56%

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SC2K5: Samus is going all the way!
Alucard vs. Sora - Bracket: Sora - Vote: Sora (38/42)

What? Kirby's the favorite, and two analysts expect him to win decisively? Ludicrous!
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It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

No need to be trapped in the middle of that large analysys...

Agreed, though I believe the group has been missing one member since the contest started that belonged since the beginning. He will prove himself, though he won't get to beat an Elite this year, by ranking ahead of 3 "Noble Nine" members this year and doing as well next year. God help us all in 2k7. \m/
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Now Link, fill up your hearts
So you can shoot your sword with power

It's worth noting that the board favorite has won every match in the gauntlet so far.
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"All pretty girls are a trap, a pretty trap, and men expect them to be."
MasterMage119

Yeah, surprised me too. Even though I love Kirby, and dislike Tidus, I still predict he'll win. Of course, it is his match to lose tommorrow.

Also, if Kirby wins, it makes me all the more happier.
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SC2K5: Samus is going all the way!
Alucard vs. Sora - Bracket: Sora - Vote: Sora (38/42)

Actually I'm of the opinion that Kirby should have been the favorite to begin with. Even after adjusting MM there's room for Kirby to win in 2k4... and that's assuming Squall was not SFFd (which the evidence sorta points to). He got lucky in 2k3, and with the exception of the very odd Ganondorf everything else points to 2k3 being an accident in favor of Tidus.
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Now Link, fill up your hearts
So you can shoot your sword with power

Agreed, though I believe the group has been missing one member since the contest started that belonged since the beginning. He will prove himself, though he won't get to beat an Elite this year, by ranking ahead of 3 "Noble Nine" members this year and doing as well next year. God help us all in 2k7. \m/

Who?
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"All pretty girls are a trap, a pretty trap, and men expect them to be."
MasterMage119

...Sora's a board favorite?
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It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

Vincent, obviously.
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Only the Snake is the true hero. Solid Snake to the Final Four!

...Sora's a board favorite?

Sora was ahead in the BOP by a tiny bit, was he not?
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"All pretty girls are a trap, a pretty trap, and men expect them to be."
MasterMage119

I thought you meant in terms of board preference, not the BOP.
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It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

the favourite to win and the board favourite are two different things.
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http://picturesofwalls.com

the favourite to win and the board favourite are two different things.

Not really. It's just that board favorite can be interpreted in two different ways.
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"All pretty girls are a trap, a pretty trap, and men expect them to be."
MasterMage119

And yes, I consider having Bowser over Snake to be one of the biggest mistakes in my bracket,

You shouldn't considering that Bowser will be winning over Snake.

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To the man whose spirit was so free it was bothersome... Kurosaki Ichigo, my sword has been broken by your freedom of spirit.

Bowser will be lucky to beat Ryu, much less Snake.
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It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

true, they can. I usually see it being used as a character that is liked by the board, though.
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http://picturesofwalls.com

Bowser will be lucky to beat Ryu, much less Snake.

I don't think Bowser will need luck to beat Ryu. I think he will beat him handily and then lose to Snake just as handily.
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"All pretty girls are a trap, a pretty trap, and men expect them to be."
MasterMage119

You know who. You all know who. There can be only one man whose greatness has been shrowded in darkness, but this year he shall prove himself by only narrowly losing to Crono. He's the man, the myth, the legend... the newest and best (okay, so maybe just my favorite...) member of the Elite. Vincent Valentine.

Oh, and to say he's my favorite of the Noble Nine is saying a lot, as there are currently none I'd claim to actually dislike (though I trash talk a couple pretty badly) and a coupl eof them are on my all-time favorites list.

Hmm, if this seems delayed it is, I had a phone call.

Anyway, \m/ Vincent 2k7 Champ \m/
---
Now Link, fill up your hearts
So you can shoot your sword with power

You're getting ahead of yourself there, chichiri.

We don't know yet whether or not Tifa and Vincent are merely having miracle runs like Magus and Frog right now.

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Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

I do. I know it deep down, Vincent will be doing just as well next year as this. I'm sure you will not believe me, and I'm not going to go over a list of reasons because most of them have been stated, but I'm certain that this year he will do well and that it won't be a fluke.
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Now Link, fill up your hearts
So you can shoot your sword with power

I do. I know it deep down, Vincent will be doing just as well next year as this. I'm sure you will not believe me, and I'm not going to go over a list of reasons because most of them have been stated, but I'm certain that this year he will do well and that it won't be a fluke.

I hope so, too many Square newcomers have miracle runs and then flop horribly after that.

Making me wary of any Square newcomer that does better than expected.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

I'm also pretty confident that Vincent and Tifa are quite legit, and very powerful.

We'll see something with Dante and Luigi though.
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www.SC2K5.com
www.sc2k5.com/gallery

if you ask me, after seeing Snake handle Zelda, the only characters left this year that can break up the Noble Nine are Vincent and Tifa. i just can't see Sora taking Snake down and Bowser is almost the exact same strngth as Zelda (according to 2K3). i seriously doubt this Nintendo boost of 2K5 will boost Bowser more than Zelda, so i can't see Bowser doing more than a point or two better than Zelda - which is still not enough to take down the Snake.

in fact, for the rest of this round and the whole Sweet 16, the only matches i am currently unsure of are:

Kirby vs. Tidus
Master Chief vs. Donkey Kong
Knuckles vs. Squall
Sonic vs. Tifa

the rest of the matches, i am quite confident of; including Bowser's next two matches and Vincent's two matches.

---
"Start wearing purple, for me now. All your sanity and wits, they will all vanish, i promise. It's just a matter of time..."

I really don't see why Squall/Knuckles is up in the air. I don't get it.
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It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

Obv bcuz MGAUS r teh 2k3 stta!
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Now Link, fill up your hearts
So you can shoot your sword with power

I really don't see why Squall/Knuckles is up in the air. I don't get it.


19 Squall Leonhart 24.58% 22.92% Midgar 4 5
20 Tidus 24.47% 22.82% 20XX 8 7
21 KOS-MOS 24.24% 22.60% Chaos 8 6
22 Magus 24.09% 22.47% Hyrule 6 4
23 Shadow the Hedgehog 24.07% 22.45% 20XX 9 8
24 Knuckles 24.07% 22.44% 20XX 10 9

They're not far apart at all from each other in the X-stats. Why wouldn't it be close?
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

Alucard just won an update.
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It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

From: LeonhartForever | Posted: 8/25/2005 11:33:41 PM | Message Detail
I really don't see why Squall/Knuckles is up in the air. I don't get it.

Agreed.
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For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to refer to Gordon Freeman versus Tanner as Schrodinger's Match. -Phoenix Flattener

They're not far apart at all from each other in the X-stats. Why wouldn't it be close?


...Did you just use the unadjusted stats?
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It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

Hmm, perhaps I can give myself hope that my bracket can be saved by a miracle from Knux.
---
Now Link, fill up your hearts
So you can shoot your sword with power

...Did you just use the unadjusted stats?

Yes. I could use the adjusted stats, if you like.

9 Magus 34.93% 32.57% Hyrule 6 4 33.80%
10 Ganondorf 34.72% 32.38% Hyrule 8 5 33.60%
11 Zero 33.96% 31.67% 20XX 4 2 32.86%
12 Solid Snake 33.05% 30.82% 20XX 2 3 31.98%
13 Frog 32.13% 29.96% 20XX 6 4 31.09%
14 Master Chief 32.13% 29.96% 20XX 3 5 31.09%
15 Liquid Snake 32.10% 29.93% 20XX 11 6 31.06%
16 Ryu 32.00% 29.84% Chaos 9 3 30.97%
17 Squall Leonhart 31.72% 29.58% Midgar 4 3

And Knuckles beat Magus. If you use the adjusted stats, it's far more obvious that he'll destroy Squall.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

You just can't beat selective reasoning. Arguments are so much easier to make when you fail to take all of the facts into account.
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It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

Tidus winning his division. XD


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I HAVE FURY!

Villainous Fawful trolling.

Not that I'm surprised or anything.
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It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

Yeah, but there were actual signs pointing to Magus' weakness, there's nothing about Squall to indicate that... I hope to all hell that Knux beats Squall, as it would be the only salvation for my bracket, but I'm expecting Squall to win fairly easily.

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~This sig was pimped by Icon's sig~
Cheer up Emo kids.

Squall will make the gauntlet so far look like a borefest. He's winning easily.
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I need to put something here.

You just can't beat selective reasoning. Arguments are so much easier to make when you fail to take all of the facts into account.

Fine then. Squall underperformed against both Bomberman and Kirby, and failed to impress against Geno. Knuckles managed to beat Magus, which is an impressive feat no matter how you look at it. He also managed to make Kefka look 3% weaker than Vercetti, which puts him close to Zero. It doesn't take much of an increase for Knuckles or much of a drop for Squall, combined with random fluctuation, to put Knuckles above Squall for the day of their match.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

In any event, I wish I could stay up to see the start of Kirby/Tidus. I really don't know what to expect out of this one. There are just so many places either of them could be.
---
It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

From: LeonhartForever | Posted: 8/25/2005 11:33:41 PM | Message Detail
I really don't see why Squall/Knuckles is up in the air. I don't get it.

*shrugs*

i dunno. i really don't have any concrete reasons to believe that Knuckles can take down Squall. but, i just can't shake the feeling that Knuckles must have gained in popularity a little bit. yeah, yeah - Magus was overrated and also dropped, blah, blah, blah. but still. Knuckles could have also increased a bit. and if Squall was adjusted too high with the SFF he suffered, he could be somewhat overestimated.

Knuckles is quite a longshot, but i would be much more surprised at this point to see Luigi over Tifa, Dante over Vincent, or Ryu over Bowser than if we saw Knuckles squeak past Squall.

---
"Start wearing purple, for me now. All your sanity and wits, they will all vanish, i promise. It's just a matter of time..."

Fine then. Squall underperformed against both Bomberman and Kirby, and failed to impress against Geno.

Your expectations of Geno have nothing to do with his strength, so let's just leave that one out of this. He did what was expected of him. That's enough. On the other hand...

Kirby, you say?

16 Squall Leonhart 31.72% 30.70% North 6 6
17 Bowser 30.97% 29.97% East 5 5
18 Ryu 30.69% 29.70% West 5 3
19 Zelda 30.29% 29.32% West 10 4
20 Auron 28.73% 27.80% East 8 6
21 Dante 28.23% 27.32% West 4 5
22 Alucard 27.56% 26.67% South 6 5
23 Yoshi 27.05% 26.17% East 4 7
24 Knuckles the Echidna 26.47% 25.62% West 8 6
25 Kirby 26.34% 25.49% South 3 6

That Kirby?
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It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

Knuckles managed to beat Magus, which is an impressive feat no matter how you look at it.

It's only impressive when you look solely at 2003. Barely doing better against Sam Fisher than Donkey Kong did is far from impressive.

He also managed to make Kefka look 3% weaker than Vercetti, which puts him close to Zero.

And Solid Snake, too. Yeah.
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It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

I'll bring it up again, since I'm oh-so biased for Knuckles: using 2k2 stats, Knuckles gets 56% on the dot against Squall.

Oh, I mean, sure, things might have changed a lil' since then, but Knuckles is the heavy favorite. =P
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Hillary Clinton: We need to treat violent video games the way we treat tobacco or alcohol.
Lewis Black: Namely as valued contributors to our re-election fund.

oh, and one more thing before i go to bed. how the **** are these guys still on the Top 50:


12 Jabbari693 41 Squall Leonhart
18 toneman887 41 Yoshi

WTF......

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"Start wearing purple, for me now. All your sanity and wits, they will all vanish, i promise. It's just a matter of time..."

24 Knuckles the Echidna 26.47% 25.62% West 8 6
25 Kirby 26.34% 25.49% South 3 6

That Kirby?

Yeah. Squall doesn't have to be much weaker, and Knuckles doesn't have to be much stronger, for random variation to take care of the rest.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

I'd say there's a chance it could be a favorites bracket sort of thing that, like 0 brackets, seek to do something noticable. Instead of jsut picking their favorites they pick their most favorite character and make a bracket around it that can see top 50 so that people notice them. That or they are very lucky and looking to fall away from the big boys soon enough.
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Now Link, fill up your hearts
So you can shoot your sword with power