Consolefreak, I was asking it to creativename was said that the Spring contest has been a fair barometer so far.

Yeah I read that too late.


consolefreak, if you think there's SFF in Seph > Liquid, then you might as well stick SFF in every single damn match!

I stick it in a lot of matches, actually. The size of it, though, mostly neglectable. However, in a potentially close match like Snake - Sora it can, and will, make a difference.


There is absolutely NO SFF whatsoever between Seph and Liquid, it's just Seph being his usual inconsistent self.

Again, you are wrong. I SFF voted Sephiroth.
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even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 39/42. Today: Sora, tomorrow: Tidus

but would mario beat crono hands down after mario128?
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Kilroy:There fate will be in each other's hands as they decide whether to share or to shaft

There is SFF in every match, its just I doubt think Sora/Snake is going to have any real meaningful SFF.

MGS2/3 and KH are pretty much must-haves for PS2, and I think many, many PS2 owners have both of them. Look at yourself.

this is silly. of course some people like both characters. example: my favourite platforming series is Metroid, while my favourite RPG series is Shadow Hearts. why, it must be Yuri/Samus SFF!

That's quite different because those are on different consoles, and Shadow Hearts is cult.



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even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 39/42. Today: Sora, tomorrow: Tidus

I would take Mario over Samus and Crono after Mario 128 and would never look back


Unless of course Square decides to make CT-2 .. lol

---
"Life...Dreams...Hope...Where'd they come from? And where are they headed...? These things...I'm going to destroy!!" -Kefka

Upper Gear Division:

Solid Snake: 50.00%
Zelda: 45.59%
Vivi: 36.87%
Manny Calavera: 15.91%
---
Summer Contest Score: 37/40
Today's Pick: Solid Snake

At 11:50

Sora/Alucard: 51,132
Snake/Zelda: 56,442
Ness/CJ: 55,123
Luigi/KOS-MOS: 58,142
Sora/47: 47,917
Kratos/Alucard: 51,310

Less than Kratos/Alucard...
---
I know what I'm getting into, I don't care if I die trying!-Peppita Rossetti

Kratos > Sora
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The King of all Cosmos' route to summer victory:
Round 1: (0) Voters

Going beyond that and trying to account for the minor SFF that could theoretically occur in every match is frivoulous, and makes compiling a system of XP stats completely worthless.

I'd take quite a lot of SFF into account for Snake - Sora as MGS2/3 and KH are must-have PS2 games, and many PS2 owners have them both.

Of course its magnitude won't be comparable to Link - Ganondorf or Aerith - Sora. But it could (and would, if necessary) make the difference in a close match like Snake - Sora.
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even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 39/42. Today: Sora, tomorrow: Tidus

Who said Snake/Sora was going to be close?


~RPGGamer~

hey if square had made a chrono trigger film instead of the crappy thing we got called the spirits within would they still be alive.

and why am i always dreaming of a KH Cloud/Magus Fight with magus's soundtrack and the FF7 boss battle music against reno being played at the same time?
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Kilroy:There fate will be in each other's hands as they decide whether to share or to shaft

Who said Snake/Sora was going to be close?

Someone asked what Snake would get on Alucard, and I started my response by saying Sora doesn't stand a chance at Snake due to SFF.

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even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 39/42. Today: Sora, tomorrow: Tidus

Why are you calling Snake-Sora close? Zelda's stronger than Sora.

Why are you calling Snake-Sora close? Zelda's stronger than Sora.

I never said that, in case you were talking to me.
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even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 39/42. Today: Sora, tomorrow: Tidus

They come from the PS2. Way too broad of an audience to call for significant SFF.

Now, if you were to use 2 characters that are restricted solely to, say, the N64, you have a case. What with the N64 having few yet blockbuster titles. PS2 had way too broad of an appeal to many audiences to cause an overlap significant enough to indicate in the stats.
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"No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do." - Tom Cruise

I stick it in a lot of matches, actually. The size of it, though, mostly neglectable. However, in a potentially close match like Snake - Sora it can, and will, make a difference.

It won't, period.

Again, you are wrong. I SFF voted Sephiroth.

The fact that you (and most other people) like Seph more than Liquid is already taken into account for in the X-stats by setting Seph's number higher than Liquid's.

One of the things that the X-stats can't take into account for is when 2 chars shares most of their fanbase.

Link and Ganon is the perfect example of this, where the more popular char was vastly prefered over the less popular one within their fanbase.

Seph and Liquid, in the other hand, has absolutely NOTHING in common with each other.

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Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

I'd vote Tidus over any character in this contest except for Kirby and perhaps Dante. Is Tidus getting SFFed by Kirby tomorrow?

This argument is really stupid.

in a match how badly would bahamut beat rayman?
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Kilroy:There fate will be in each other's hands as they decide whether to share or to shaft

They come from the PS2. Way too broad of an audience to call for significant SFF.

Now, if you were to use 2 characters that are restricted solely to, say, the N64, you have a case. What with the N64 having few yet blockbuster titles. PS2 had way too broad of an appeal to many audiences to cause an overlap significant enough to indicate in the stats.

KH and MGS2/3 both broke 2,000,000 in sales. I think it's safe to say many PS2 owners have both.

It won't, period.

It will. If only, my sole vote.

The fact that you (and most other people) like Seph more than Liquid is already taken into account for in the X-stats by setting Seph's number higher than Liquid's.


No actually, it's not. I would vote Liquid over nearly every character (everyone except like 5, amongst whom Sephiroth). A lot of people who voted Sephiroth that day, would vote way more characters over Liquid. When Liquid faces, say, Mario, they might vote Mario, when I won't.

It's not taken into account for.

Seph and Liquid, in the other hand, has absolutely NOTHING in common with each other.

FFVII/MGS= must-haves for PS1. Everyone has both.
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even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 39/42. Today: Sora, tomorrow: Tidus

I'd vote Tidus over any character in this contest except for Kirby and perhaps Dante. Is Tidus getting SFFed by Kirby tomorrow?

Tidus and Kirby are not even on the same console. Big difference.

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even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 39/42. Today: Sora, tomorrow: Tidus

I'll be going away for a while now. Wait for your responses.
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even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 39/42. Today: Sora, tomorrow: Tidus

I'm gonna say one thing about the on-going argument and nothing else: when you say "I SFF-voted Sephiroth" or "I'm gonna SFF-vote Solid"...that's you voting for your favorite of two characters, which is no different than anybody else who votes. If we're considering SFF just because of two games sharing a system, then did Tidus SFF the King Of All Cosmos? In all likelyhood, no. Solid and Sora share almost as much in common, with the only difference being that Solid and Sora have more fans than Tidus and KoaC, thus having a lil' more of an over-lap (but still doubtfully enough to be worth anything)...

...since you're voting for your favorite character in Solid/Sora and calling it an SFF-match, I'm officially calling Mega Man/EWJ concrete proof of rSFF. They were both on the Super Nintendo, afterall, and I generally like Mega Man more than Earthworm Jim.

I hope you DON'T think that's reasonable logic in the second paragraph.
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Hillary Clinton: We need to treat violent video games the way we treat tobacco or alcohol.
Lewis Black: Namely as valued contributors to our re-election fund.

Tidus and Kirby are not even on the same console. Big difference.

SNES/N64/GC and PS2 both sold over 2 million copies! I'm sure tons of people have both of those systems. There must be SFF.
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I know what I'm getting into, I don't care if I die trying!-Peppita Rossetti

ALUCARD IS GETTING SONY/GBA SFFD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo
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The King of all Cosmos' route to summer victory:
Round 1: (0) Voters

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

then did Tidus SFF the King Of All Cosmos?

It was obviously rSFF. We cannot lose otherwise.
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The King of all Cosmos' route to summer victory:
Round 1: (0) Voters

Good point. =P

Seriously though, I just find the general notion of Solid/Sora SFF to be forced.
---
Hillary Clinton: We need to treat violent video games the way we treat tobacco or alcohol.
Lewis Black: Namely as valued contributors to our re-election fund.

That was my point, Tidus/Kirby are not on the same console... you can't make any case as to why there would be any sort of SFF, yet my defense of SFF existing between the two is exactly the same as your defense with Sephiroth/Liquid. It doesn't work.
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Raiden fact of the post: This is why Raiden can SFF any character not named Solid Snake, as told by the facts.

Snake/Sora SFF... oh man, oh man. I just can't see any shared fanbase here, at least not any that is cancelled out by ratios similar to that the actual match will end up with.

Anything beyond Link/Megaman is just really-digging-deep speculation. I mean, at least given Megaman's character and game design, Link/Megaman SFF is believable. But SNAKE/SORA?!?
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"You can't have gone over a kilometer up. 1500 meters, tops." -Samus Aran
"I'll express my love to you slowly, later." -Setzer Gabbiani

KH and MGS2/3 both broke 2,000,000 in sales. I think it's safe to say many PS2 owners have both.

Sales mean absolutely nothing. I believe Ulti brought this up at some point, but look at Panzer Dragon Saga last spring. It sold 7,000 copies in the USA, and it ended up with 14,000 votes. What does that mean? Did EVERY single PDS owner in the world show up and vote? Didn't think so. Sales do not mean votes. On top of that there have been what something like 25,000,000 PS2's sold? that means if MSG2/3 and KH sold a combined 4,500,000 games thats what 1/5 of ps2 owners combined own them, take into account how much of a different demographic those respective games reach out to and you end up with maybe 250,000 people owning both. Then theres other intangible like did they like both or neither games or characters. Then perhaps we end up with 200,000 who own both and could contribute to SFF. Then look at how many of them are actually voting at GFAQS and you end up with a number around maybe 1,000, and even thats a stretch. Then you have to guess whether or nto more people liked MGS than KH and more than likely you end up with something like 520 people voting for snake, and 480 voting Sora, or vice-versa. Unless the match ends up around 50-50 affair that "SFF" will mean nothing.


---
"The Lotus in Konoha blooms twice..." Rock Lee

well who cares what happens in snake/sora SFF or No SFF snake is still gonna win by more than 10000 votes
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Kilroy:There fate will be in each other's hands as they decide whether to share or to shaft

For the record, I was the one who said Sora has a shot at Snake, and if he gets his Solid **** picture, you will be seeing an uber upset. I would take Sora over Zelda around 52/48, and with Snake receiving the worst picture this contest has ever seen, that should cover the difference.

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RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Fighting Illini (37-2): #2 in the nation, #1 in our hearts

And yes, that means I think Sprite Samus would double Solid ****.

---
RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Fighting Illini (37-2): #2 in the nation, #1 in our hearts

I'm gonna say one thing about the on-going argument and nothing else: when you say "I SFF-voted Sephiroth" or "I'm gonna SFF-vote Solid"...that's you voting for your favorite of two characters, which is no different than anybody else who votes

Who are you to decide why I voted a certain character? Or are you insinuating that I don't know what SFF is? I SFF-voted Sephiroth over Liquid because I would vote Liquid over everyone else except Cloud, Auron, Squall, Tidus, Solid Snake and Ocelot.

then did Tidus SFF the King Of All Cosmos?

Katamari Damacy is cult.

...since you're voting for your favorite character in Solid/Sora and calling it an SFF-match

Again, I'm SFF voting Snake in that match because I'd vote Sora over nearly everyone else.


SNES/N64/GC and PS2 both sold over 2 million copies! I'm sure tons of people have both of those systems. There must be SFF.

I'm calling SFF on Sony fanboys. What are you calling SFF on? Gamer fanboys?

ALUCARD IS GETTING SONY/GBA SFFD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo

Castlevania games aren't exactly million sellers (correct me if I'm wrong). Also, have you thought of the possibility that there is, in fact, SFF in this match? Sora's supposed to be around 50.0%. He's well on his way to 55%.

That was my point, Tidus/Kirby are not on the same console... you can't make any case as to why there would be any sort of SFF, yet my defense of SFF existing between the two is exactly the same as your defense with Sephiroth/Liquid. It doesn't work.

How is that, when MGS was released withing months of FFVII, on the same console, and they both sold millions? That's a lot in common.

Sales mean absolutely nothing.

Right. It is indeed entirely coincidental that the most popular characters are from million-selling games.


I believe Ulti brought this up at some point, but look at Panzer Dragon Saga last spring. It sold 7,000 copies in the USA, and it ended up with 14,000 votes. What does that mean? Did EVERY single PDS owner in the world show up and vote? Didn't think so.

Anti-votes, read about the game, don't know either game so I vote Panzer, ...


Sales do not mean votes.

They do actually, to some extent.


On top of that there have been what something like 25,000,000 PS2's sold? that means if MSG2/3 and KH sold a combined 4,500,000 games thats what 1/5 of ps2 owners combined own them, take into account how much of a different demographic those respective games reach out to and you end up with maybe 250,000 people owning both. Then theres other intangible like did they like both or neither games or characters. Then perhaps we end up with 200,000 who own both and could contribute to SFF. Then look at how many of them are actually voting at GFAQS and you end up with a number around maybe 1,000, and even thats a stretch. Then you have to guess whether or nto more people liked MGS than KH and more than likely you end up with something like 520 people voting for snake, and 480 voting Sora, or vice-versa. Unless the match ends up around 50-50 affair that "SFF" will mean nothing.

If that is the accuracy with which you decide to call matches, then go ahead. All those numbers are entirely made up I'm not willing to argue over it. You invalidated your own reasoning before you even typed it up. Panzer got more votes than sales.


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even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 39/42. Today: Sora, tomorrow: Tidus

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

so in the event of squall/vincent who wins?
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Kilroy:There fate will be in each other's hands as they decide whether to share or to shaft

sorry if this has been mentioned many time before. Im positive that almost every single match with 2 populare characters has sff regardless of sales or console or series or company unless i dont understand what sff is. Take this match as an example. Im a fan of kingdom hearts and sotn and therefore im a member of the alucard fanbase and the sora fanbase. the only way sff wouldnt exist in this match for my vote is if alucard or sora was facing oh lets say agent 47 whos game i have never played.
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current goty:Advance wars duel strike
possible goty contenders: castlevania dos, we love katamari, mario kart ds

so in the event of squall/vincent who wins?

Vincent, if necessary through the significant amount of SFF going his way.
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even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 39/42. Today: Sora, tomorrow: Tidus

Panzer got more votes than copies sold from the publisher. Through ebay and emulation, I will be shocked if anything less than five times its sales accurately projects the amount of people who have actually played the game. And five times is probably really conservative.

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RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Fighting Illini (37-2): #2 in the nation, #1 in our hearts

sorry if this has been mentioned many time before. Im positive that almost every single match with 2 populare characters has sff regardless of sales or console or series or company unless i dont understand what sff is. Take this match as an example. Im a fan of kingdom hearts and sotn and therefore im a member of the alucard fanbase and the sora fanbase. the only way sff wouldnt exist in this match for my vote is if alucard or sora was facing oh lets say agent 47 whos game i have never played.

Exactly. I'd call SFF on nearly every match. The question is: can it make a difference.

In Snake - Sora, I'm convinced it can.
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even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 39/42. Today: Sora, tomorrow: Tidus

If that is the accuracy with which you decide to call matches, then go ahead. All those numbers are entirely made up I'm not willing to argue over it. You invalidated your own reasoning before you even typed it up. Panzer got more votes than sales.

Actually the only numbers that are made up are the ones that have to be (the estimates on how many owned both or liked both ect ect). The game sales numbers you said yourself so I was using the numbers you gave me, im not sure how PS2's have sold, im actually pretty sure its higher 25,000,000 worldwide but I used a lower number to be safe. And it wouldn't matter if KH got votes from people that have never played it because thats not SFF.

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"The Lotus in Konoha blooms twice..." Rock Lee

so snake/sonic who wins?
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Kilroy:There fate will be in each other's hands as they decide whether to share or to shaft

Panzer got more votes than copies sold from the publisher. Through ebay and emulation, I will be shocked if anything less than five times its sales accurately projects the amount of people who have actually played the game. And five times is probably really conservative

Yeah well Cloud never got those 8,000,000 votes, did he.
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even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 39/42. Today: Sora, tomorrow: Tidus

Hold that thought console, I will comment on it when I get home from work in about 20 minutes.

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RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Fighting Illini (37-2): #2 in the nation, #1 in our hearts

Actually the only numbers that are made up are the ones that have to be

Yes. Aren't those the ones that matter?


And it wouldn't matter if KH got votes from people that have never played it because thats not SFF.

I was just stating possible reasons for people voting a game they don't know.


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even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 39/42. Today: Sora, tomorrow: Tidus

If thsi was a debated match where the characters are going to be in a close match then your argument might have a shadow of a point. However the minimal SFF in Snake-Sora, will make no difference because the match is going to finish 55-45 where 100-200 votes at the absolute most will make no difference.
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"The Lotus in Konoha blooms twice..." Rock Lee

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Yes. Aren't those the ones that matter?

To a fault yes. So what do you think? Do you think upwards 1/4 of everyone who owns MGS2/3 or KH owns both?
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"The Lotus in Konoha blooms twice..." Rock Lee

BWHAHAHA @ Alucard. I knew the day vote was going to be unkind, but he's just getting owned by it. I figured Alucard would have done better with the night vote, then Sora would fight to catch up during the day, but damn, Alucard blew it.

72.06% had Snake over Zelda?! Impressive casuals. Impressive.

New match pictures, yay!

http://www.gamefaqs.com/shared/sum05/b38.jpg

Eww, Alucard's MJ face is scaring off votes!

http://www.gamefaqs.com/shared/sum05/b39.jpg

Tidus, I hope you enjoy costing my bracket 2 points. Seriously, can you look any more female? Kirby then gets one badass face pic.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/shared/sum05/b40.jpg

Pic of the ROUND so far. Excellent Bowser pic; the advantage is his. Ryu looks good as well.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/shared/sum05/b41.jpg

Uh...why is it smaller? Also looks less clear than the others. Both are decent, I guess.
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SC2K5: Samus is going all the way!
Alucard vs. Sora - Bracket: Sora - Vote: Sora (38/42)

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

100-200 votes at the absolute most will make no difference.

You just said 40.

To a fault yes. So what do you think? Do you think upwards 1/4 of everyone who owns MGS2/3 or KH owns both?

I'm willing to think that the percentage of gamers owning both KH and an MGS game on gameFAQs >>>>> The percentage of gamers owning both KH and an MGS game outside of gameFAQs.

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even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 39/42. Today: Sora, tomorrow: Tidus