Tifa vs Luigi could give us somewhat of a hint to Link vs Cloud. If Luigi just rolls over and dies, it means that the FFVII cast isn't gonna be as dominated by Nintendo as everyone else in the contest, and that Cloud has more of a chance against Link.
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I need to put something here.

Looks like there isn't much (if any) SFF between Seph and Auron.

Uhh...Wrong. Auron is right below Snake based on Sp2K5 Ganondorf. The 2004 stats definitely don't have him there. Ganon would be getting 57-59% if that's really where he was.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

I think this 'Nintendo' dominance will fade away when we see three square characters in the finals.

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RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Fighting Illini (37-2): #2 in the nation, #1 in our hearts

If Cloud wins, its only because of Advent Children. Link beat Cloud last year and would only of gotten stronger from Twilight Princess. Theres no reason for Cloud to have gained a huge amount. He hasn't had any new games since last year or anything.

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Can't think of a good sig.

Snake is going down tomorrow... no matter how much I hate it.

---
Explicit Content.
Cheer Up Emo Kids.

You guys act like Cloud needs a big boost to beat Link this year. He doesn't. Random fluctuation would be enough to give him a win.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

Hmmm...Auron seems to be slowing Ganondorf down right now. Getting the after-school vote, eh? Too bad it's too late.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

Uhh...Wrong. Auron is right below Snake based on Sp2K5 Ganondorf. The 2004 stats definitely don't have him there. Ganon would be getting 57-59% if that's really where he was.

See, you're assuming that 2k3 Ganon is legit, something that we now know to be false.

We also know that Ganon's numbers against Seph in Sp2k5 isn't valid, as that would put Yuna waaay to high.

But if you take a static Yuna from 2k3, then Ganon lands a bit above Bowser, and make Auron's performance today quite understandable.

Again, we might have been overestimating the effect of SFF between Square chars.

Square chars aren't personality void avatars like most Nintendo chars, so bandwagon jumping between them should be quite minimal.

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Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

Uhh...Wrong. Auron is right below Snake based on Sp2K5 Ganondorf.

Weren't you against the Spring stats before? I know Slowflake is... I forgot who else was against them. If you were, it's rather convenient for you to use them now to make Auron look better. :P
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Again, we might have been overestimating the effect of SFF between Square chars.

Square chars aren't personality void avatars like most Nintendo chars, so bandwagon jumping between them should be quite minimal.

Forgot about Cloud vs. Squall? Before the contest began, I expected Yuna to be up to ~30% on Link from FFX-2. I suppose this might've been a minor overestimation, but it certainly doesn't make Ganon look bad.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

See, you're assuming that 2k3 Ganon is legit, something that we now know to be false.

We also know that Ganon's numbers against Seph in Sp2k5 isn't valid, as that would put Yuna waaay to high.

Way too high according to who? You? Who says she can't be?
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

well if zelda pushes snake hard will it mean he's gonna have to struggle his way to the final four.

and i'm sure snake can get bracket support seeing how many picked him over manny. cause i'm sure at least 5000 guys who will be wanting to make there bracket look respectable will vote for snake. that could be the difference
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Kilroy:There fate will be in each other's hands as they decide whether to share or to shaft

If you were, it's rather convenient for you to use them now to make Auron look better. :P

If it fits, it fits. It's not like I can't admit when I'm wrong. It's right where Tails puts him, too, and Sonic characters have proven to be relatively stable.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

We also know that Ganon's numbers against Seph in Sp2k5 isn't valid, as that would put Yuna waaay to high.

What's wrong with Yuna having an increase from FFX-2? Besides, we've never seen Yuna face Ganondorf before. Who are we to decide what she can or cannot get on him in a popularity contest?

But if you take a static Yuna from 2k3, then Ganon lands a bit above Bowser, and make Auron's performance today quite understandable.

Looks like you're taking other stats to make the more recent one look more right. Yuna did well on Ganondorf. Ganondorf did well on Sephiroth. Deal with it!

Square chars aren't personality void avatars like most Nintendo chars, so bandwagon jumping between them should be quite minimal.

After we've seen the huge bandwagons that Magus and Frog had, then subsequently flopping? Personality isn't the deciding factor on how popular a character can be. People can like and dislike characters at will.
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Nice bracket percentage for Samus.

And YES, I knew Ganon would lay down the hand of justice on Auron's backside. I figured Auron would do better than this, but meh, I'm not complaining.

Too bad LoZ falls in the next match...
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SC2K5: Samus is going all the way!
Ganon vs. Auron - Bracket: Ganon - Vote: Ganon (34/38)

Forgot about Cloud vs. Squall? Before the contest began, I expected Yuna to be up to ~30% on Link from FFX-2. I suppose this might've been a minor overestimation, but it certainly doesn't make Ganon look bad.

Forgot about Crono vs. Magus?

We all thought that was due to SFF, while in truth it was just Crono exposing Magus.

Way too high according to who? You? Who says she can't be?

You're trying to tell me that FF X-2 gave her such a huge boost?

I'm not buying it, FF X-2 might be a decent game, but it made it's chars much less likable.

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Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

Less likeable for you, maybe. Casual gamers will eat up fanservice.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

I'm not buying it, FF X-2 might be a decent game, but it made it's chars much less likable.

You do notice how Rikku has become a video game sex symbol due to FFX-2 right?
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

After what Cloud did to Squall last year, isn't it kinda of silly to keep on pretending that there isn't a significant amount of SFF between FF characters? As much as I hate to admit it, Zelda and Ganondorf have both gotten very, very strong, and are just as capable of taking down certain Noble Niners as Tifa (and possibly Vincent).
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ALL YOUR VOTES ARE BELONG TO...Pac-Man?

You do notice how Rikku has become a video game sex symbol due to FFX-2 right?

This isn't the first time I've seen someone say this, and it doesn't make much sense. The vast majority of her fans started liking her in FFX, not X-2.
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I need to put something here.

you know, this match makes me wonder how the hell Magus beat Ganon.

I expect Auron to cut a percent or two off this and end at around.. 53.5% or so. that still indicates some SFF between him and Seph; heck, Ganon got a good 10% more than Auron did on Seph, overperformance or not.
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http://picturesofwalls.com

oh, and you disliking FFX-2's characters doesn't mean others did as well.
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http://picturesofwalls.com

The vast majority of her fans started liking her in FFX, not X-2.

She still wasn't a video game sex symbol then. She is now.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

What's wrong with Yuna having an increase from FFX-2? Besides, we've never seen Yuna face Ganondorf before. Who are we to decide what she can or cannot get on him in a popularity contest?

Sure, like how Snake got an increase from Twin Snakes, or how KOS-MOS got an increase from Xenosaga 2.

FF X-2 is a hated sequel, even if it did gave Yuna an increase, it definitely won't be by leaps and bounds.

Looks like you're taking other stats to make the more recent one look more right. Yuna did well on Ganondorf. Ganondorf did well on Sephiroth. Deal with it!

2k3 is the latest stable number that we have on Yuna, so I'll use that.

After we've seen the huge bandwagons that Magus and Frog had, then subsequently flopping? Personality isn't the deciding factor on how popular a character can be. People can like and dislike characters at will.

You don't get what I mean, I'm trying to say that a big part of a Square char's appeal is his/her personality.

Therefore, their fans are less likely to abandon them for more popular Square chars, because the more popular one might not have the same "type" of personality that their fave has.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

ffx-2 is #26 on the faqs, almost two years later. how is it hated?
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http://picturesofwalls.com

She still wasn't a video game sex symbol then. She is now.

I guess it's her hardcore FFX fans who got her into the contest, and the casuals who like her for being a sex symbol that make her a decent opponent. Yeah, that works, I guess.

I expect Auron to cut a percent or two off this and end at around.. 53.5% or so. that still indicates some SFF between him and Seph; heck, Ganon got a good 10% more than Auron did on Seph, overperformance or not.

Which makes me wonder WTF happened to Vivi. I really see no reason why Auron was SFF'd and Vivi wouldn't have been.
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I need to put something here.

There was literal revulsion to it's announcement.

Many FF fans view it as the worst of the series along with Mystic Quest.

It's the Raiden of FF.

Forgot about Crono vs. Magus?

We all thought that was due to SFF, while in truth it was just Crono exposing Magus.

Who cares about Crono vs. Magus? Are you saying that Kirby, Bomberman, and Squall all took huge drops from 2k3 to 2k4? Don't be ridiculous.

You're trying to tell me that FF X-2 gave her such a huge boost?

I'm not buying it, FF X-2 might be a decent game, but it made it's chars much less likable.


I haven't played FFX-2 yet, but to me it seems that it would be impossible to make Yuna less likable, since she's already the worst character in gaming. Besides, DMC2 sold less than half a million copies and gave Dante a 3% boost. Why can't FFX-2, which sold over a million copies, give Yuna, who wasn't even the protagonist of the first game, a 4% boost?

Sure, like how Snake got an increase from Twin Snakes, or how KOS-MOS got an increase from Xenosaga 2.


IIRC, those games both sold ~200,000 copies, which is pretty pathetic.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

like how Snake got an increase from Twin Snakes, or how KOS-MOS got an increase from Xenosaga 2.

Those games sold like absolute crap. That doesn't even belong in a comparison to FFX-2.

2k3 is the latest stable number that we have on Yuna, so I'll use that.

Considering she's had reason to increase since then, I personally wouldn't.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

I didn't think Snake's picture could get worse than the previous round...but DAMN!
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Today's subliminal thought is:

It's the Raiden of FF.

And yet Loepn argued for a value for Raiden that may not be all that far off from his real value, considering the extremity of SFF we've seen.
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I need to put something here.

And remember that FFVIII is despised by a great many fans, and see how well Squall does here.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

I personally believe Vivi overperformed due to his black mage status.. call it rSFF or whatever you want. we'll know more tomorrow.

as for FFX-2: Yuna went up and Rikku did better than people expected, while Auron looks to be pretty constant. until you can give me a reason for this, I'll assume it's not as hated as you think.

heck, look at Squall.
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http://picturesofwalls.com

Sure, like how Snake got an increase from Twin Snakes, or how KOS-MOS got an increase from Xenosaga 2.

FF X-2 is a hated sequel, even if it did gave Yuna an increase, it definitely won't be by leaps and bounds.

Twin Snakes and Xenosaga aren't Final Fantasy X-2. FFX-2 sold MUCH better than those game and put a LOT more emphasis on Rikku and also elevated her status as a sex symbol. Have you not been looking around you?

2k3 is the latest stable number that we have on Yuna, so I'll use that.

And you will continue to be wrong if you use older numbers rather than recent numbers. Yuna showed how strong she is NOW with her match against Ganondorf. I assume you're gonna use Zelda's 2k3 number as well right?

You don't get what I mean, I'm trying to say that a big part of a Square char's appeal is his/her personality.

Therefore, their fans are less likely to abandon them for more popular Square chars, because the more popular one might not have the same "type" of personality that their fave has.

And Nintendo fans abandon their favorite characters?

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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

And Lopen could be wrong.

I view Raiden as a great character, so don't think of me as biased against him.....but he is NOT someone that casual fans would vote for.

Ocelot's horrid performance is proof that all Metal Gear characters besides Solid snake are not very strong.

BTW, Raiden or Ocelot?

You know, since Zelda got her child version from OoT, what would people think if Ceej used young Link against Cloud?
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

don't even go there, Leon. :)

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http://picturesofwalls.com

Yeah, Lopen definitely could be wrong, and probaby is. But I don't think Raiden is all that weak.

And I'd take Raiden over Ocelot, if nothing else because he's playable. And Ocelot doesn't have a major role in the first two MGS games, which outsold the 3rd by far.
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I need to put something here.

You know, since Zelda got her child version from OoT, what would people think if Ceej used young Link against Cloud?

XD Link just got CjayC'D
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When this happened, all of us got PWND by Smurf
http://www.freewebs.com/vgcg/Knuckles.jpg

Who cares about Crono vs. Magus? Are you saying that Kirby, Bomberman, and Squall all took huge drops from 2k3 to 2k4? Don't be ridiculous.

Bomberman took a huge drop between 2k2 and 2k3, he's certainly capable of taking yet another one.

Seph took a drop between 2k3 and 2k4, why can't Squall?

Btw, adjusting Squall through a constant Bomberman 2k3 nets him with a 4% drop, just like Seph's, while allowing a reasonable amount of SFF to exist.

I haven't played FFX-2 yet, but to me it seems that it would be impossible to make Yuna less likable, since she's already the worst character in gaming. Besides, DMC2 sold less than half a million copies and gave Dante a 3% boost. Why can't FFX-2, which sold over a million copies, give Yuna, who wasn't even the protagonist of the first game, a 4% boost?

Yuna is a semi-lead already in FF X, and FF X outsold FF X-2 by leaps and bounds, so I would say that she got most of her popularity from FF X.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

You know, since Zelda got her child version from OoT, what would people think if Ceej used young Link against Cloud?

TWW Link was used against Cloud in 2K3, so that's a good indication of what would happen.
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Today's subliminal thought is:

Sonic > Luigi > Tifa.

It shall be so.
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Mario is Winnar
Next victim: Master Zero

6000 vote lead.

Celebrate.
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Mario is Winnar
Next victim: Master Zero

Twin Snakes and Xenosaga aren't Final Fantasy X-2. FFX-2 sold MUCH better than those game and put a LOT more emphasis on Rikku and also elevated her status as a sex symbol. Have you not been looking around you?

I have no comment on Rikku, as her role wasn't nearly as important as Yuna's in FF X.

And you will continue to be wrong if you use older numbers rather than recent numbers. Yuna showed how strong she is NOW with her match against Ganondorf. I assume you're gonna use Zelda's 2k3 number as well right?

Zelda's 2k3 numbers would still give her 51% on un-adjusted Snake 2k4.

Bowser vs. Chun-Li went as expected if you plug in a number slightly less than Ken 2k3's for Chun-Li.

And Nintendo fans abandon their favorite characters?

They abandoned Ness for Bowser and Mario, and they abandoned Ganon and Yoshi for Link.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

Auron just knocked the lead back under 6000. Comeback initiated.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

Btw, adjusting Squall through a constant Bomberman 2k3 nets him with a 4% drop, just like Seph's, while allowing a reasonable amount of SFF to exist.

That's only true if you forget to adjust for Link/Samus SFF.

Yuna is a semi-lead already in FF X, and FF X outsold FF X-2 by leaps and bounds, so I would say that she got most of her popularity from FF X.

It doesn't matter how important a character is in the story, if that character isn't the protagonist. Protagonists are generally much stronger than the personalities would indicate. If importance in the story were all that counted, Colette would be here instead of Lloyd.

And "leaps and bounds"? What exactly do you mean by that?

16 PS2 FINAL FANTASY X SQUARE ENIX INC (CORP) Dec-01 2,270,819
57 PS2 FINAL FANTASY X-2 SQUARE ENIX INC (CORP) Nov-03 1,379,019

They're less than a million copies apart, smaller than the difference between Halo and SSBM. I'd hardly call that "leaps an bounds". And for some reason you keep ignoring DMC2. Why is that?
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

And Nintendo fans abandon their favorite characters?

They abandoned Ness for Bowser and Mario, and they abandoned Ganon and Yoshi for Link.

He was talking about Samus and Mario, obviously. I believe that both were SFF'd (in which case Squall's drop from SC2k3 to SC2k4 would be even larger), but some people don't.
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Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent.

Here's to Auron making this look more respectable.
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I need to put something here.

Colette would be here instead of Lloyd.

I'd wager that Lloyd is more important than Colette, but this isn't exactly a brand new discussion.
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Mario is Winnar
Next victim: Master Zero