Yeah, I do think Zelda looks best out of the lot. Don't think that'll help her, though... cause I don't think pic voters are the type that will vote based off of an "Aw..." reaction.

It's not that I'm saying that Snake's pic is bad enough for hardcore Snake fans to not vote for him. But there ARE plenty of people who aren't big fans of Snake. Him looking like that could be more than enough to make them vote for the other person, especially someone as recognizable and well known as Zelda.

Just the sheer number of people commenting about the pics should be evidence that pics CAN matter to people. Voters aren't robots...
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

The name factor makes no sense. Look at how well Frog's doing right now who got 48% on him.

is anyone here going to vote for Zelda because Snake has a bad picture?

that seems silly to me. I'll believe it happens to a small amount, but people seem to have gone from 55-45 to a Zelda win.
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http://picturesofwalls.com

Why does Snake look like 1990 Undertaker?
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BertTheOne | Can't hurt this Bert
Never eat a stoner. We have powers you havent even seen!

I guess Snake must have some sort of immunity against the picture voting so many of us have admitted doing.

Are you telling me that you would have voted Snake if he had a good picture, but now, due to a "bad" picture, you'll be voting Zelda?

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To the man whose spirit was so free it was bothersome... Kurosaki Ichigo, my sword has been broken by your freedom of spirit.

I can't believe people are saying the picture won't be a factor after how overrated Frog's fourpack was thanks to Solid ****. Does anyone think that he would have scored 48% without that picture?

Mark my words, if Snake loses this match, we'll see Zelda go on to bomb against Sora and Bowser (win or lose), get slaughtered in the Final Four if she makes it, and have an abysmal rating for Snake in the 2k5 X-Stats.

Then the next character contest will roll around, and he'll 'jump' for no apparent reason.
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"i started playing mario brothers as luigi and threw the controller down in disgust in the middle of the game because he lacked character"--gokujont

I'm voting for Snake because of this terrible picture, but I'm obviously part of the angered minority. Most casual voters will be doing the exact opposite.
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Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

Picture voting...

I think a lot of what makes people like characters in the first place is their appearance. For instance, look at the ever popular pirates and ninjas. So yes, people vote off of pictures... but not in the way that we would think. I don't think people just go up to the contest and say "Ooh, that person looks pretty" and will vote... they'll have already done that in the character's game. Or if they haven't played either of the character's games... well, most of those people won't vote.

I think the board may actually pic vote more than most people... simply because we're so into the contest that we almost lose sight of what we should be voting for in the first place.
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I can't think of anything to put here, but I can't just leave it blank, can I?

Sorry, should say Sora/Alucard and Bowser/Ryu/Tidus/Kirby. Don't want to jump the gun, after all...
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"i started playing mario brothers as luigi and threw the controller down in disgust in the middle of the game because he lacked character"--gokujont

I can't believe people are saying the picture won't be a factor after how overrated Frog's fourpack was thanks to Solid ****. Does anyone think that he would have scored 48% without that picture?

Excuse me? Since when does today prove that there was a "Solid ****" factor? Today does not say anything like that. You're trying to tell me with a different picture that Snake would have somehow put up the numbers he was suppose to. I find that to be absurd.

Is it even the slightest bit possible that Snake simply was not as strong as he was in previous years? Is there something hard to believe about that? Or is it possible that Frog could have dropped from 2004 to 2005? Solid Snake's picture was very similar to what he got against Ryu and he performed as he was expected to.

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To the man whose spirit was so free it was bothersome... Kurosaki Ichigo, my sword has been broken by your freedom of spirit.

*Is also voting for Snake* MGS fans unite and rise over his crap picture! >_>
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Future WWEGSB Carnage Superstar
"Forsaken Warrior" Hiroshiko Osawa

I'm voting for Snake because of this terrible picture, but I'm obviously part of the angered minority. Most casual voters will be doing the exact opposite.

There is no way at all to say for sure on something like that. You're free to believe it will, but by no means is it something that is obvious or easy to see. Snake's picture, I believe, will not cause nearly as big a problem as some of you are talking. If he does lose, it'll be because he should have lost -- good picture or not -- not because his picture wasn't the best thing in the world.

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To the man whose spirit was so free it was bothersome... Kurosaki Ichigo, my sword has been broken by your freedom of spirit.

If he loses with 50.01%, you're telling me there's no way he could have won with a standard MGS picture? Please.
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Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

If he loses with 50.01%, you're telling me there's no way he could have won with a standard MGS picture? Please.

Ask that question if he does lose by something insanely close like that and I'll give you an answer you'll just eat up.

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To the man whose spirit was so free it was bothersome... Kurosaki Ichigo, my sword has been broken by your freedom of spirit.

^^^
Exactly
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Future WWEGSB Carnage Superstar
"Forsaken Warrior" Hiroshiko Osawa

Excuse me? Since when does today prove that there was a "Solid ****" factor? Today does not say anything like that. You're trying to tell me with a different picture that Snake would have somehow put up the numbers he was suppose to. I find that to be absurd.

Of course pictures matter.

Just from personal experience, if I don't particularly care about either character in a poll, I vote for whoever looks more appealing.

Casual voters are not hardcore gamers like we are. They are not familiar with every single character in the contest. Therefore, if they don't know either character, they go "hey, that guy looks awesome", and vote for him.
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Matches closer than 51.5/48.5 are basically decided by luck anyway.
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I can't think of anything to put here, but I can't just leave it blank, can I?

Excuse me? Since when does today prove that there was a "Solid ****" factor?

I never said anything about 'today'. Don't put words in my mouth. I'm talking about MC, Liquid, and Frog all being overrated, and that's evident from Liquid in the Villain Contest, Frog's performance against Riku, MC against CATS, and, then today (which I am *now* saying).

Today does not say anything like that. You're trying to tell me with a different picture that Snake would have somehow put up the numbers he was suppose to. I find that to be absurd.

I don't *care* what you find.

Is it even the slightest bit possible that Snake simply was not as strong as he was in previous years? Is there something hard to believe about that? Or is it possible that Frog could have dropped from 2004 to 2005? Solid Snake's picture was very similar to what he got against Ryu and he performed as he was expected to.

Bullcrap, bullcrap, bullcrap. Snake had a sprite that at least looked like a PERSON against Ryu. Solid **** barely looked like anything against the horrid background. And I don't even doubt Snake dropped--he did. But his performance against Mega Man indicates that he didn't drop THAT much. Certainly not to put that fourpack on the level they're at now.
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"i started playing mario brothers as luigi and threw the controller down in disgust in the middle of the game because he lacked character"--gokujont

HM Frog must of took the biggest drop in contest history if he didin't overperform on Snake. Otherwise Snake is getting murdered in 2 days.

I just saw the new pictures... apparently Snake is going to be starring in the next FF Tactics game, since he looks like he has no nose. On the other hand, Zelda got a 10-year old picture, which isn't going to help her either.
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SpC2K5 First Vote Champion
Nominate Jay Solano for SC2k6

I didn't expect Snake to keep it exceptionally close anyway; my only concern now is that more people will jump ship on their oracle picks and side with Zelda. :-(
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ALL YOUR VOTES ARE BELONG TO...Pac-Man?

Of course pictures matter.

I'm sure they do matter, but not nearly to the degree that some people like to claim in this topic. The outrage at Snake's picture and him now looking to "lose" based on that is nothing short of ridiculous. Unless these same people were expecting a victory for Snake within 51%, they shouldn't be in such an uproar. A 55-45 match isn't going to swing into a victory for Zelda based on picture alone, especially with someone as established as Solid Snake.

Just from personal experience, if I don't particularly care about either character in a poll, I vote for whoever looks more appealing.

In a poll with more obscure characters, I could see the picture playing its maximum role. It's there that I would see the picture playing a bigger role than anywhere else. But this match is with two very well-known and well-liked characters. Why one would assume that there are that many people going to abandon Snake due to his picture here are just being crazy.

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To the man whose spirit was so free it was bothersome... Kurosaki Ichigo, my sword has been broken by your freedom of spirit.

I never expected Snake to have that big of a win in a first place. This would be more than enough to swing the percent or two needed in my mind.
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"i started playing mario brothers as luigi and threw the controller down in disgust in the middle of the game because he lacked character"--gokujont

...Maybe we should all try out that whole "leave for a day and come back" thing? We're back to the stage of "GRR YELL AND SCREAM AT PEOPLE" now.
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I can't think of anything to put here, but I can't just leave it blank, can I?

Zelda is a bit more popular than MGS though, and, since this is the main character going against Zelda, the chick thats always getting rescued(savor when she's Sheik <_<), the picture could perfectly swerve the vote to her favor, no?
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Future WWEGSB Carnage Superstar
"Forsaken Warrior" Hiroshiko Osawa

...Maybe we should all try out that whole "leave for a day and come back" thing? We're back to the stage of "GRR YELL AND SCREAM AT PEOPLE" now.

GRR!!! I HAVE FURY!!!!!!
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"All pretty girls are a trap, a pretty trap, and men expect them to be."
MasterMage119

YOU MAKE ME SICK!
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Mario is Winnar
Next victim: Master Zero

I doubt Snake's fugly pic will hurt him THAT much, but I'll admit that it barely look like a human pic.

I wonder where Ceej got it, I've never seen that pic of Snake anywhere else.

Hell, I can take a random snap shot of Snake from MGS2 with a digital camera and produce a better pic of Snake.

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Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

I think the board may actually pic vote more than most people... simply because we're so into the contest that we almost lose sight of what we should be voting for in the first place.

You actually have it backwards. Since we follow the contest so much, most of us should already have in mind who we are going to vote for. The average voter takes one look at the match pic. Sees two pics and two names, votes, and moves on to other business.

Is it even the slightest bit possible that Snake simply was not as strong as he was in previous years? Is there something hard to believe about that? Or is it possible that Frog could have dropped from 2004 to 2005? Solid Snake's picture was very similar to what he got against Ryu and he performed as he was expected to.

HM, you're acting like we are saying that the pics are going to make a 10% difference in the contest. It's not at all unreasonable to think that out of nearly 100,000 voters that a terrible pic could affect at least 2000-3000 voters. You've seen a good number of that here on the board if you pay attention to everybody. Even if 96% says that the pic doesn't matter to them, which you will probably see, 4% can still make the difference in a close match.

For instance, during Cloud/Link 2k3, I took one look at Wind Waker Link, who I grew tired of seeing, and one look at KH Cloud, and I voted for Cloud even though I'm a big Link fan. I actually LIKE WW a lot, but I still voted for Cloud.

Similarly, last year I went to GameFAQs and saw the Mega Man/Snake pic, immediately thought "Ha, Snake's getting his face blasted in" and voted for Mega Man. I actually was going to vote for Snake just because I already knew that he lost to Mega Man previously. I'm not a robot...

Most of the people that argue that pics don't matter are part of the majority that the pics DON'T matter to. But you can't possibly say that they don't matter to anyone.
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Bormun, i still don't understand how you cannot admit that pics can influence votes. it's common ****ing sense. the average voter has two things to base their vote off of, count'em - THE NAME and THE PICTURE.

sometimes (and with the vastly well-known characters, it's most of the time), the voter will see the name and identify the character. that could bring to mind the characters' reputation, development, games and whatever else the voter might know about the characters. now, if the voter either doesn't know or doesn't care about either of those two characters, then what is left to base their vote off of? that's right - THE PICTURE. so, if the voter either doesn't know or doesn't care much about either character, they are gonna vote for the picture they like better.

here is an accurate, honest example:

me, personally; i know almost all of the characters in this contest. however, i am indifferent towards at least a third of them. take for example: Dante and Tommy Vercetti. i've never played either character's game and know pretty much nothing about either character. but, if you showed me their pics and ask me who i would vote for, i would say Dante because he looks way cooler than Vercetti.

what is there to argue about that?

however, i am not thoroughly convinced that Snake's picture will affect this match much. i looked for a good close-up picture of Snake and i couldn't find one. Snake really doesn't have any good close-up pics. fortunately, Zelda's pic is kinda goofy, too, so it may not matter much.

but, it's just plain stubborn to refuse to admit that pics can't affect these matches.

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"Start wearing purple, for me now. All your sanity and wits, they will all vanish, i promise. It's just a matter of time..."

I don't *care* what you find.

Fine. I don't particularly care how you view my opinion. But I will go against something I find to be stupid.

Bullcrap, bullcrap, bullcrap. Snake had a sprite that at least looked like a PERSON against Ryu. Solid **** barely looked like anything against the horrid background.

That is bull****. They were very similar pictures, with the one against Ryu looking a little better. You're trying to tell me that the pictures were drastically different and Solid Snake's picture against Frog was just uncalled for while his picture against Ryu was fine? They were very similar and you're wanting to tell me that the latter caused some crazy overperformance for Frog?

But his performance against Mega Man indicates that he didn't drop THAT much. Certainly not to put that fourpack on the level they're at now.

If you believe Mega Man was constant that year, it's still a 3% drop, around 6% if you think Mega Man's match against Link was how he should have performed. But, I would agree that they -- or Solid Snake -- isn't near 24% on 2004 Link.

HM Frog must of took the biggest drop in contest history if he didin't overperform on Snake. Otherwise Snake is getting murdered in 2 days.

Assuming his adjusted value was correct, he drops from 29.96% to around 24%, which is roughly 6%. You could certainly believe that his unadjusted one was the more correct value, in which case his drop is around 3%.

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To the man whose spirit was so free it was bothersome... Kurosaki Ichigo, my sword has been broken by your freedom of spirit.

Casual voters are not hardcore gamers like we are. They are not familiar with every single character in the contest. Therefore, if they don't know either character, they go "hey, that guy looks awesome", and vote for him.

It's not a matter of not knowing the character. It's just that in this topic, we assume that a voter is either a big fan of the character or he is not. And that simply isn't the case. There's a lot of gray area in between the black & white that the stats topic likes to assume.
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Is it even the slightest bit possible that Snake simply was not as strong as he was in previous years? Is there something hard to believe about that? Or is it possible that Frog could have dropped from 2004 to 2005? Solid Snake's picture was very similar to what he got against Ryu and he performed as he was expected to.

Well, why would any of those things happen? Why would snake just not be as strong, and why would the semi-aged theory that chrono trigger gets more popular every year backfire twice against Magus and Frog?

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Revenge is a dish best served cold. ~Old Klingon Proverb

HM, you're acting like we are saying that the pics are going to make a 10% difference in the contest. It's not at all unreasonable to think that out of nearly 100,000 voters that a terrible pic could affect at least 2000-3000 voters.

Yes, but in order for me to believe that, the picture would honestly have to absolutely terrible, hideous, and otherwise making the character look completely unrecognizable -- the example that would best fit this is Solid Snake's picture against Frog. I don't believe just any "terrible picture" is going to make that much of a difference. And I would expect it to be even lesser as you start getting into the far more well-known characters.

But I'm not saying the pictures have zero effect, or only matter when the match is a 50.05 - 49.95 match. I just don't believe that someone projected winning with 55% is going to be in danger of losing based on a bad picture.

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To the man whose spirit was so free it was bothersome... Kurosaki Ichigo, my sword has been broken by your freedom of spirit.

I just don't believe that someone projected winning with 55% is going to be in danger of losing based on a bad picture.

Projected by whom? You? Other people? We know those are reliable.
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I know what I'm getting into, I don't care if I die trying!-Peppita Rossetti

Fine. I don't particularly care how you view my opinion. But I will go against something I find to be stupid.

As will I.

That is bull****. They were very similar pictures, with the one against Ryu looking a little better. You're trying to tell me that the pictures were drastically different and Solid Snake's picture against Frog was just uncalled for while his picture against Ryu was fine? They were very similar and you're wanting to tell me that the latter caused some crazy overperformance for Frog?

Again, Snake's sprite looked like a person--and you could tell it was supposed to be so. In addition, the characters were literally placed against the backdrop of their faces.

That's leagues better than an amorphous, compeletely unrecognizable mound of a sprite placed against a similarly textured green background.
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"i started playing mario brothers as luigi and threw the controller down in disgust in the middle of the game because he lacked character"--gokujont

Well, why would any of those things happen? Why would snake just not be as strong, and why would the semi-aged theory that chrono trigger gets more popular every year backfire twice against Magus and Frog?

There isn't any reason needed for a character to get weaker. I cannot explain why he would get weaker, but it's very apparent he did. Characters are not always going to remain static, for better or for worse. There are only a few exceptions where I would imagine a character wouldn't really move up or down -- someone like Vyse is really the only one who comes to mind.

And I never understood why people assumed Chrono Trigger itself got stronger every year. There was never any sign of everything relating to the game getting that boost. Crono, however, did show these signs since he's been in the contest. He should have lost by upwards to 3000 votes in 2002, making that match far more apart in percentage than it was. In 2003, he gave Mario that close 50.05 - 49.95 match, meaning he did increase from the previous year. In 2004, he just cleared Mario with room to spare and pulled in a 4000 vote victory. Unless you believe Mario just kept going down each year, Crono showed undeniable signs of moving up.

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To the man whose spirit was so free it was bothersome... Kurosaki Ichigo, my sword has been broken by your freedom of spirit.

Projected by whom? You? Other people? We know those are reliable.

By the stats more than anything. Those are reliable, as long as you don't expect 100% accuracy from them in every situation. If a match is projected to be like that, I simply cannot imagine a "bad picture" making them lose.

In Zelda/Snake, I believe Zelda's expected to be the favorite by the stats to begin with. If she does actually win, I believe it would be her more than anything else. But there would undoubtedly be people who would blame it on Snake's "terrible picture."

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To the man whose spirit was so free it was bothersome... Kurosaki Ichigo, my sword has been broken by your freedom of spirit.

It seems beyond weird though that Frog could get 48% on Snake, and not even 30% on Samus. I still think Snake can win, but I have that feeling I had before Starcraft/Windwaker. Like no way Snake can possibly lose....right....right?! And then it happens.
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Revenge is a dish best served cold. ~Old Klingon Proverb

I figure the pics matter a hell of a lot more to casual voters than a good deal of you would admit. For instance, back when I paid little attention to the contest, here's a couple of scenarios for me.

"Hmm, something that looks like a ball of lettuce against Pac-Man. I'm voting Pac-Man... wait... that was KEFKA?! Ah well, I'll pay more attention next time."

"Wow, I don't give a crap about either Shadow or Wario, but at least Shadow has an appealing look. Vote: Shadow."

If you don't think other voters have similar thought patterns, you're insane.
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That... was her final mission. And like a true soldier, she saw it through the end.
ZSB [aX]

Yes, but in order for me to believe that, the picture would honestly have to absolutely terrible, hideous, and otherwise making the character look completely unrecognizable -- the example that would best fit this is Solid Snake's picture against Frog. I don't believe just any "terrible picture" is going to make that much of a difference. And I would expect it to be even lesser as you start getting into the far more well-known characters.

It's not up to us to decide on what influences an individual voters mind in a match. It could range from a character looking unrecognizable (i.e. Arabusa), to having an ugly pic against someone else that they like (i.e. Solid ****/Frog) , to simply having a pic in a form that the individual voter specifically doesn't care for (i.e. WW Link vs. Adult Link). There could be a number of other factors... I'm not gonna try to account for every single voter when you have vote totals in the range of 100k.

And it's not like it's said that the pics matter in every match. In most matches the pics probably WON'T make a huge difference in the match results. For example, Kefka is ugly no matter WHAT pic he gets. There are only a select few matches where I think pics DID make a difference. And I don't think at all that it made more than a 2-4% difference. I'm just stating that it CAN play a minor factor. People in this topic just constantly deny that "pics don't matter".
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

You know, even if Zelda remained static from 2k3, she would still beat un-adjusted Snake in a nail-biter (~51%).

So if TP give her any boost, Snake will need a miracle to get past her.

I guess I can understand the outrage over Snake's pic, as this match is expected to be a nail-biter to begin with.

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Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

"Wow, I don't give a crap about either Shadow or Wario, but at least Shadow has an appealing look. Vote: Shadow."

It's matches like that for which I can't defend the pic making a difference. Shadow's look is part of his appeal and is part of his intrinsic strength. It wouldn't matter what pic he gets because all of his pics look the same.
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

All these testimonies of people voting for the 'better pic' makes me wonder if I'm the only guy that doesn't vote if I don't give a crap about either character?... >_>

It's matches like that for which I can't defend the pic making a difference. Shadow's look is part of his appeal and is part of his intrinsic strength. It wouldn't matter what pic he gets because all of his pics look the same.

Snake's somewhat badass look is part of his strength. If Shadow got a pic that looked uncool, it would take away from his strength, why couldn't Snake be different?
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"All pretty girls are a trap, a pretty trap, and men expect them to be."
MasterMage119

...for the record, Duke Milkem is the only match I ever voted strictly because of a pic.

so, like, there's this Ganon/Auron match you may have heard of going on tomorrow. who gets the board vote?
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http://picturesofwalls.com

so, like, there's this Ganon/Auron match you may have heard of going on tomorrow. who gets the board vote?

I think Auron will, I haven't seen any Ganon fans around board 8.

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Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

the board vote will go to Ganondorf because the majority of Board 8 has him in their brackets and this is expected to be a close match. then Auron will take the lead in the early morning, only to have Ganondorf retake the lead with the day vote. but then, G-Dorf will slide during the evening hours and let his lead slip away, allowing Auron the narrow victory.

>_>

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"Start wearing purple, for me now. All your sanity and wits, they will all vanish, i promise. It's just a matter of time..."

I think the board vote will be split about as much as the match result will be. Both are pretty popular, and neither is of the type that gets anti-voted. If you see once person gain a large advantage during the board vote, don't expect the other person to turn the tables in the match. That probably will be the winner of the match. I don't see any big comebacks.
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MM are my INITIALS "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."